The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

I have been thinking of buying one for when I work.

What would be the best kind?  I am looking for one that will stop an automatic rifle.

Where do you work that makes you think you need one?

In this country ?..

looks like anywhere .. walmart .. a bar .. an elementary school .. city hall

^true dat

The 'moms' have been discussing the bullet proof backpacks with school around the corner.

There wasn't anything you could have said to me, when I was younger, that would have made me believe this how we'd be living right now.

(https://imagez.tmz.com/image/f4/o/2019/08/04/f400ef774c9e49b096a9dc97e4305757_md.jpg)

The problem Neil is that one word. Homicide. The others aren't homicide. You'd think a smart guy would know this but apparently not...unless that's not really attributed to him. If he really posted that, I lost all respect for him.

{edit} Apparently it's real and he's gotten a good bit of negative reaction for his tweet. 1 easy step to ruin a career, Neil. Apparently even astrophysicists can be idiots.
 
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/neil-degrasse-tyson-twitter-neil-degrasse-tyson-faces-backlash-for-tweet-about-mass-shootings-in-el-paso-dayton/

^The last one says 40 people die from homocide by handgun every 48 hrs, so I don't really know what your issue is.  I think what he's saying is every 48 hours people die needlessly, yet no one seems to care unless it's some mass shooter in the media because it warrants an emotional reaction.  34 people died in that one 48 hr period from a mass shooting.  Those others happen EVERY 48hrs.  I'm all for common sense gun laws, and this is a tragedy, but is statistically insignificant.  In addition to common sense gun laws in the media (also the debate of what constitutes common sense), there should also be giant stories about the amount of people dying from medical errors, why suicide is so rampant, who exactly is responsible for the 40 homicides via handgun every 48 hrs and what we can reasonably do about it, etc.  

Which brings me to D4L point of thinking he needs a bullet proof vest, which is the whole point of this thread and why I posed what Tyson tweeted.  As much as the media wants you to believe it, the chances of you being involved in a mass shooting are very low.  Between crazy homicidal gun nuts and anti-American gun control there is a solution, but there is no compromise between the left and right anymore.  Long story short, this is really bad, but not as bad as the media would have you believe.

The difference is that I didn't expect it from him. I expect it from the other idiots that can't see the difference.

^Again, I don't see the problem with his tweet.  He mentioned the rampant homicide by handgun every 48 hrs, along with other issues of needless death that happen every day that no one seems to care too much about, and that mass shootings are statistically insignificant in the grand scheme of things.  He's not wrong.

He is and he apologized for his mistake. I'm not going to even justify it by debating with you. There's no point.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/celebrities/2019/08/04/neil-degrasse-tyson-slammed-tweet-el-paso-dayton-shootings/1916347001/

He posted facts and said people respond more to emotions than facts. Pappy is literally proving his point.

Why?  It's a civilized discussion, I just think differently than you, even if I am "one of the other idiots that can't see the difference".  You just called it wrong, but other than calling him names, you haven't stated why.

He's apologized. Came to his senses....unfortunately it's a day too late.

https://deadline.com/2019/08/neil-degrasse-tyson-apology-slammed-tweet-shooting-deaths-1202661285/

Of course, just about anyone who has celebrity status and they get bashed on twitter "apologizes".  He doesn't want to tarnish his brand.

He didn't take back what he said. He just said he didn't mean to be insensitive.

“My intent was to offer objectively true information that might help shape conversations and reactions to preventable ways we die,” Tyson wrote in his apology Monday morning on Facebook.

What I learned from the range of reactions is that for many people, some information — my Tweet in particular — can be true but unhelpful, especially at a time when many people are either still in shock, or trying to heal — or both.”

Which is why his apology also garnered plenty of criticism. I didn't say he understood why what he said was wrong, but he did apologize. Maybe I would debate him if he wanted to debate it. Just because your post states some facts doesn't necessarily mean it makes any sense.

Roses are red. The sky is blue. Everything I say must be true.

imagine if he had tweeted on sept 12th that in a week more people die from medical errors than from the twin towers collapse ..

you know .. as a helpful fact to shape the conversation ..

high IQ .. low EQ

So what's this big difference you speak of that the idiots can't see?

I have never agreed more with one of your non-football posts...

While I see your point, I find your examples to be another extreme false equivalence.

Have a hard time understanding the point of his tweet.  

Was it that mass shootings are a relatively minor problem that isn’t worthy of the attention they were receiving?  

Or was it to encourage a greater focus in reducing medical errors or eradicating the flu, etc?

If the former, you are a fucking asshole.  If the later, I agree with your goals, but you picked a piss poor way to encourage people to get a flu shoot and I can guarantee your message won’t get thru.  

Faus post is more on point than Neil’s.

Back to the original post, D4L I would suggest a Legacy Tactical Level IIIA Concealable Vest, goes for about $270, has fuller body coverage.  I'm sure it will cut into your car fund, but well worth the extra couple bucks.  Have you thought about armor plating your next ride???

Trump is blaming video games as one of the reasons for this sort of thing, and I have to say, that's fucking stupid.  Perhaps the reason why shooters play games like this is to escape their hell of a reality, and they use video games as an escape?  Nope, that would make too much sense. 

The point was that many more people die everyday of mundane things that no one gives a shit about. The only reason this gets so much attention is because of political posturing. Violent crime in the U.S. has fallen sharply over the past quarter century. As I have said many times before, people have been killing each other for thousands of years and it's never going to stop. So, asshole or not, facts are facts. Mass shootings ARE a relatively minor problem that aren't worthy of the attention they are receiving when many more people die or random things that don't get any attention? More hypocrisy...

I know people who have kids who play FPSs 16 hours a day when not in school, if not more. They don't leave their fucking room except to shit and eat. It's really fucked up to see people like that. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that it causes some kind of mental issues. That's not to say that I don't like playing video games. But at the end of the day it's just a game for entertainment. Not something I want to do for more than a few hours a week maybe. It's partially a parenting problem.

With two exceptions, everything on Neil's list are unintended tragedies.  The two exceptions are:

- homicide via handgun
- suicide (left unstated: how many of the suicides are by gun)

What an uncharacteristically dumb tweet, especially now.  Comparing accidents or diseases to intentional criminal acts of violence is inexplicably stupid.  I mean, drunk driving deaths aren't even intentional, yet no one makes these kind of clownish "but what about how many people die from cancer?" excuses when we suggest doing something about drunk driving.

Regarding obsessive video gamers, I don't really think it's a cause of some mental issues, I think it's that person's solution to their mental issues so they don't have to deal with reality.

Intentional criminal acts? When you figure out how to stop those let us know, we'll wait.

Seems to me that a cure for cancer or autonomous cars are more realistic (eventually) than controlling human behavior and stopping intentional criminal acts. After all, they are intentional.

I could see it going either way depending on the individual.

True, wouldn't want to put a blanket on it when everyone is different, but I still think the majority of issues are there before any video game obsessiveness.

Not to mention, all these drugs they have people on these days. Add in years of habitual video game playing, I could see someone losing track of reality.

I found this interesting.  This is a multifaceted issue, not just a "lets ban all guns", "video games are the problem" or "white nationalists".  This article shows an actual correlation to the issue.

   
Of the 27 Deadliest Mass Shooters, 26 of Them Had One Thing in Common

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/markmeckler/2018/02/27-deadliest-mass-shooters-26-one-thing-common/ (https://www.patheos.com/blogs/markmeckler/2018/02/27-deadliest-mass-shooters-26-one-thing-common/)

Suzanne Venker’s recent opinion piece on FoxNews is very, very important, because she points out that almost all of the most recent deadly mass shooters have one thing in common: fatherlessness.

She begins by pointing out a tweet after the terrible shooting in Florida last week. Actor and comedian Michael Ian Black began a series of tweets in this way, “Deeper even than the gun problem is this: boys are broken.”

Venker goes on to describe how his “tweet storm” strayed from the truth:

    Unfortunately, Black quickly veered off course. “Men don’t have the language to understand masculinity as anything other than some version of a caveman because no language exists…The language of masculinity is hopelessly entwined with sexuality, and the language of sexuality in hopelessly entwined with power, agency, and self-worth…To step outside those norms is to take a risk most of us are afraid to take. As a result, a lot of guys spend their lives terrified…We’re terrified of being viewed as something other than men. We know ourselves to be men, but don’t know how to be our whole selves. A lot of us (me included) either shut off or experience deep shame or rage. Or all three. Again: men are terrified.”

    Mr. Black is not the first to attack masculinity and suggest it’s at the root of all evil. Indeed, the phrase ‘toxic masculinity’ has become boilerplate language in America.

    It’s not a hard sell, either. After all, it is boys and men who are typically to blame for violent acts of aggression. Ergo, testosterone—the defining hormone of masculinity—must be to blame. But testosterone has been around forever. School shootings have not.

    Mr. Black is correct that boys are broken. But they’re not broken as a result of being cavemen who haven’t “evolved” the way women have. They’re broken for another reason.

    They are fatherless.

Yes, yes, and a thousand times yes.

Fatherlessness is a serious problem.  America’s boys have been under stress for decades.  It’s not toxic masculinity hurting them, it’s the fact that when they come home there are no fathers there.  Plain and simple.  Add that to a bunch of horrible cultural trends telling them that everything bad is good (gang culture, drugs, misogyny, etc.), and we’ve got a serious problem on our hands.

Venker goes on to explain that of CNN’s list of the “27 Deadliest Mass Shootings In U.S. History, only one was raised by his biological father since childhood.

“Indeed, there is a direct correlation between boys who grow up with absent fathers and boys who drop out of school, who drink, who do drugs, who become delinquent and who wind up in prison,” she writes.  “And who kill their classmates.”

This problem can’t be solved by any policy, or any sort of gun control. It is time to have a serious discussion about the degradation of our cultural norms.

Again, strange how "We can't stop every instance of this crime, therefore we shouldn't even try" is not deployed in any other instance.  I mean, we can't stop every illegal immigrant, so should we disband ICE?

i'm just gonna leave this here:

https://twitter.com/brianklaas/status/1158032471495196677

of all of the mass shootings all of them have one thing in common .. guns

Did I suggest that we do away with laws that prohibit killing other people. Why change the subject? The two have nothing to do with each other. Keep on point Spider

There, fixed it for you. Now answer it...

I fixed your fix for you. Welcome !!!

I see you couldn't answer the question. So what's misleading? Please elaborate.

Not everything he said was a fact. The last thing he said was simply his opinion and the facts above that opinion did not support that opinion although that's what he was implying. It's not about emotions it's about understanding the difference between murder and death. Those 2 things are not interchangeable although Neil would have you believe it. In my opinion his apology proves that he realized he made a mistake. He was trying to prove a point, but he missed badly.

The end result is the same.

I swear I love the left. One opinion from one of their heroes that doesn't fit their narrative and they eat him alive!! hahahahaha It's their way or no way!!!

OK, let's stay on point:
Why do we need to figure out how to stop all "intentional criminal acts" to proceed?  The problem at hand is that in a discussion about intentional homicides, people are inserting comparisons to accidental deaths.

The question at hand is not "How can we best reduce deaths in the US?" (as such a discussion would certainly involve healthcare infrastructure); the question is "How can we best reduce mass murder?" And the usual suspects are playing the same tune, which is everything from video games to drugs to single parents... but never the one thing that separates us from every other industrialized nation where this stuff almost never happens: widespread, easy access to guns.

Unlike the jelly-spined "family values" conservatives who have fully succumbed to a man they openly admit is brazenly immoral, on the left we try to apply our principles consistently instead of blindly cheering on our team at all times.

I can see why that would be hard to understand for the right, though.

No the results are not the same. One specific data point is the same, someone is dead. The how and the why matters. We have laws against murder, there are no laws against dieing. I'm done discussing this. Feel free to discuss in my absence.

We don't have to stop all intentional criminal acts. We're already doing a great job. As noted, violent crime in the U.S. has fallen sharply over the past quarter century. All while gun ownership has risen. The reality is that mass murder isn't the issue that you're making it out to be. It's always been there in one way or another. The fact is that people aren't going to stop killing each other.

Or maybe you have that backwards. Maybe he can think for himself and doesn't need to blindly follow the left's talking points on every topic. After all, he is a world famous astrophysicist. Who are you?

Why does the how and the why matter? Yes, we have laws against murder. And in almost every case the suspect is either arrested or killed. That may not bring back the people he killed, but it's all you got.

And WTF? You're done discussing this? Are you going through menopause or something? Are you going to cry too? You people are silly...

Oddly enough that trend started approximately 20 years after Roe v Wade became the law of the land .. odd correlation that.

You people love changing the subject.

Gee, it almost sounds like you're saying we should fall in line and not come to our own conclusion, all because some ivory tower elite professor says so.

How about this: Neil is free to come to his own conclusion, and we're free to criticize him for it.  The idea of bashing us for "eating our own alive" is ridiculous, particularly when Trump makes a mockery of the right's so-called principles on a daily basis and all you guys can say is the end justifies the means.

The question is, "How can we best reduce mass murders?" And your answer here is either "We can't" or "We shouldn't try."

BTW, if you don't like people "getting off the point" or "changing the subject," then you should stop inserting statistics about violent crime into a discussion about mass murder.  We aren't talking about battery, rape, or even robbery; we're talking about mass murder.  If you're going to try to twist the subject to a better narrative, you don't get to complain when we twist it just a little bit further.  Stay on topic.

You are aware that murder and homicide rates have dropped also? Your mass murder term is statistically insignificant in overall homicide rates. Also, wouldn't factual violent crime statistics qualify as "intentional criminal acts of violence", the term you originally used in post #26?

I work at a healthcare facility and at a Supermarket.

I spoke to my coworkers and my supervisor today about safety.  I have a plan and they seemed to think it was good.


I wonder, do they sell bulletproof blankets?  If they did, we could keep one in our safety room.

I'm not one to tell someone not to be prepared, if you think you need all of that stuff then by all means, get it.  I posted that tweet to show it's not a very common occurrence, which spiraled into a whole different discussion.

That's a mighty big stretch.  There really is no correlation to that, even if the Vox (not credible) article you got it from says there might be.

it's not, there is. (vox is credible .. sorry) .. and i got it from an economics journal and not from vox:

http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/DonohueLevittTheImpactOfLegalized2001.pdf

See that's the difference between your crowd and the generations that proceeded you. We don't get butt hurt when people disagree with us and are secure enough in ourselves to remain in a relationship beyond a few disagreements. There is no way many of you would have stayed on this forum if roles were reversed because you can't handle people having a different perspective on something. If you were in the minority you'd quickly bail. hahaha 

In Chicago, 1,517 people have been shot this year. That is 129 fewer than 2018. It's still way too many. The only people who are happy about it are the white supremacists and racists. Well maybe that and the Democratic and black leaders who pretend it isn't destroying the black community way more than random mass shootings where the white people are.   

^^^ USDA Choice, pungent, green, stick-to-your-boots horseshit...

Muhammad Ali
Tommie Smith
John Carlos
Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf
Dixie Chicks
Colin Kaepernick

I know who the snowflakes that can't handle disagreement (even silent disagreement!) are, and they've been the same for generations.

I'm still reading your link, which seems credible, but Vox is far from credible.  Incredible far left bias, sorry that kills any credibility.

Wait, wait, wait. A conservative is saying that they don't get butt hurt? You have got to be kidding me. Every single thing makes you all cry and run away. Your president is the biggest snowflake in the land. The amount of pearl clutching you all do when someone says something that doesn't fit in a 1950's setting of racism, bigotry, or stupidity is incredible. You must really ignore everything that goes on in the world to still believe that. Who am I kidding, of course you and your ilk are ignoring it all.

Guess you will have to enlighten me since the "victim-hood" isn't obvious to me.

First off .... I don't know some of them and Muhammad Ali was the most popular fighter that has ever lived. Colin Kaepernick is a QB who isn't worth the trouble he brings with him whether it being his support of dictators or disrespecting the flag. If he was then he would have had a team a while ago. I was never a fan of his, just like I'm not a fan of other teams QBs like Carsen Wentz, so the fact I'm not now means nothing. I still support Kenny Stills but disagree with him doing it too. Why? Because off the field he has gone out of his way to be a decent person.  

The Dixie Chicks separated themselves from their fans ... of which I'm not. There is a huge difference between having a different opinion and a person throwing that opinion in your face whenever they get the chance. Who in their right mind would give that same person money to abuse you? I watch movies and tv shows with many liberal Hollywood stars but it will be a while if I ever watch another Robert Deniro film.  He's been a dick about politics and has made it known he doesn't care  ... and that's putting it mildly. I'm a much bigger fan of Joe Biden than I will ever be of Deniro. He spews more chit than a septic tank.

You got me! hahahaha

Vox is creditable, biased but creditable and fact based.  Much like WSJ or New Republic on the other side.  Unlike Fox, Rush, WH etc, for whom facts are irrelevant.

i.e. "we shouldn't care"

Yes.  And fraud would qualify as an "intentional criminal act," which is another superset of what we are talking about (but: not what we are talking about).  So, when discussing things that are NOT comparable to accidents or diseases, we have:

- intentional criminal acts (e.g. embezzlement)
- intentional criminal acts of violence (e.g. domestic as a)
- intentional criminal acts of violent homicide (e.g. 2nd-degree murder)
- intentional criminal acts of violent mass homicide (e.g. mass shooting)

None of them are comparable to accidents, but we aren't talking about all of those things. We are talking about mass murder.

When you use select facts to create a false narrative, you aren't credible.  Vox and HuffPo are left propaganda.

I can see that you're wordsmithing again instead of staying on point. So just to be clear, are you/we talking about murder or mass murder?

Vox doesn’t selectively choose facts to create a false narrative.  The stories Vox runs are solid.  The only real bias they have is the stories they run tend to be ones that are of a concern to liberals but the reporting itself is good. 

this is a general idea of skew and quality:

(https://www.adfontesmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Media-Bias-Chart_4.0_Standard_License-min.jpg)

I think we already had this bias discussion (http://www.thedolphinsmakemecry.com/forums/index.php?topic=25327.msg354165#msg354165) and Tenshot made his position clear:


When perception of bias matters more than factual accuracy, it's tough to move forward.  It would be like taking the chart Fau just posted and completely removing the y-axis (because factual accuracy doesn't matter, only perceived bias).

Bullshit.  This is the front story on Vox right now:

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/8/6/20754828/el-paso-shooting-white-supremacy-rise (https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/8/6/20754828/el-paso-shooting-white-supremacy-rise)

Using select facts, it is painting a picture that white supremacy is on the rise, using select incidents where people claimed their acts in the name of white supremacy.  It didn't mention that the other mass shooting that happened was by a far left liberal, or the face that the majority of mass shootings are not from white supremacists, or white people in general.

(https://www.snopes.com/tachyon/2019/08/1565040845735.jpg)

In fact, the full list of mass shootings (according to the broad definition used in the August 2019 meme), is likely to skew even more towards non-white perpetrators than the meme itself shows. This is because, as we explained in our examination of 2018 statistics for mass shootings, unsolved shootings often remain unsolved due to the dynamics inherent in gang conflict.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mass-shooter-shooting-mugshots/ (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/mass-shooter-shooting-mugshots/)

whether it's actually on the rise is debatable .. the fact that it's becoming more vocal and thus exposed is not

I’m all for wiping out white supremacy but there’s a hell of a lot more hate out there than that fringe group. If that’s your focus you are ignoring the majority of hate groups.

It used to be a fringe group. However, the left has moved the goal posts again. Didn't you know. Anyone who is a white male, disagrees with liberals, or generally calls out blacks for bad behavior are deemed as racists and/or a white supremacist. It doesn't matter if you fit the real definition. All black people are above reproach when it comes to bad behavior. Because it's someone always else's fault in some alternate time line of the universe. Just accept that everything is your fault and go about your business.

...and why is it becoming more vocal?  Left leaning news sources is why.  They make it out to be this sort of epidemic, which it is not.  It's a bait and switch from the real issues plaguing this country.  I'm not saying ignore it, if left unchecked things can get out of hand, but it's not even close to what they say it is.  The farthest right, White supremacy, and in the same tone Nazism, should be in the same conversation as the farthest left, Antifa, and in the same tone communism.  Communism has a much higher body count than anything the Nazi's did, yet it's ACCEPTABLE to be a fucking commie in this day and age.

The real conversation should be what has driven these people, either far left or far right, and/or these mass shooters to do what they do.  As evil as these people are for committing mass murder, or being a white supremacist, or being a violent political advocate, they were/are still PEOPLE.  They aren't demon's incarnate, and it's easy to dissociate yourself that they aren't people, that you aren't capable of the same thing.  News flash, under the same circumstances, you are.  So what are the circumstances?  I'll get back to that.  

People like you want to ban guns.  Roughly 80 million people own guns.  Out of that, give or take a dozen, 24 of them are mass shooters during a given time.  That's 0.003% correlation.  That is tiny, minuscule even.  So you want to throw the baby out with the bathwater?  Do you know what correlates almost 100%?  Mental illness, either by genes or abuse.  Preventive measures could be taken there, but no, the focus is on guns.  In addition to that, the majority of the 27 deadliest mass shooters came from a broken home, either fatherless or abusiveness (there was an article that proved false that 26/27 deadliest shooters had no father, but the vast majority were how I stated:  broken home, or abusive).  Now take that tidbit of info and apply it to the African American population.  We all know the stat, 13% of the population committing 50% of the violent crime, with 75% of the African American population being fatherless.

So in both instances involving violent crimes, the common denominator is this:  Broken homes, abuse and mental illness.  That is how you make a (mass) murderer and violent criminal.  That is what we should be focusing on.

Why, yes: anyone who singles out a group by race for bad behavior is deemed "racist.". That is quite literally how racism works, and if you think you should be able to claim that (say) blacks are less intelligent than other races without being called a racist, YOU'RE the one moving the goal posts.

You have a comprehension problem. No one said anything about a group of people. For example, if Tyrone beats and kills his uncle, if Shanaynay throws her newborn in a dumpster, or if Tiesha is loud and acting like ghetto trash in the movie theater. The point being that if a white person calls out blacks for bad behavior, they are deemed as racists and/or a white supremacist. I mean shit, you just implied that I was a racist and I said nothing racist. Thanks for proving my point, LMFAO.

I swear I've been called a racist more times lately than I can count although it doesn't come from blacks who know me. I'm from Sanford and that's saying a lot. I do realize this has become the norm for the leftist. Not necessarily from the left, although Nancy and Chuck get a bit confused sometimes but the extreme leftist group. Hell ... they are even on record calling the Left racists ... hahahaha.  It only proves that two words have lost their meaning. Racist is typically used to mean "I have no other arguments so I'll resort to name calling" and being called the name of Hitler is synonymous with "you just hurt my feelings".

The Vox article is on point. White nationalist violence is on the rise and has a long history.  Not all violence is political, but most political violence is right wing.  Their are exceptions the congressional baseball shooting was left.  And their are leftist who commit vandalism (earth first, peta) that is mostly property damage not intended to harm people.  But most violence that is politically motivated is right wing.  Bombing a national guard recruiting center during the Vietnam war is left wing violence.  Bombing an abortion clinic is right wing violence.  There was left wing violence during the vietnam war.  But not much since then in comparison to right wing violence.  Please compare the number of black churches fire bombed by whites to white churches firebombed by blacks.  Please compare the number of heterosexual beaten up by homosexuals for being hetro, to the number of homosexual beaten up for being homos.  And the presidents comments most certainly is encouraging this violence.

The poster that meme you posted is an example of what you accuse vox of

Condemning individuals for bad behavior is not racism.  Condemning Tyreek Hill is not racism.  First two are okay.

Calling someone ghetto trash for being loud, is absolutely unquestionably racism.

because a president made it his platform .. that's why. Have you not heard him speak ever?


no .. they should not


Do I?  Odd that you say that when I don't. I think guns should be regulated. I think robust rules should be in place.

No this does not. This is just flat out wrong. I don't see anything mentally wrong with the el paso shooter. He bought weapons, he had thought out reasoning that he put in a manifesto. he drove 9-12 hours specifically to go to that location. I don't see mental illness. I see someone that was conditioned and indoctrinated to believe that certain people are inferior and thus worth less. I see someone who was told repeatedly that he was under attack from brown people and he took matters into his own hands.
Mental illness doesn't play here. this was premeditated, it was evil and it was purposeful.


Again the common denominator is guns. In the UK for example, they have proportionally the same amount of minorities we do, they have the same ratio of mental illness, they have the same ratio of broken homes and abuse and yet their gun deaths are infinitesimally smaller. And the reason is that they don't have the gun addiction we do.

You'd think that because all you read is bullshit left propaganda stating that.  Vox is a cancer, and many sites like it used for manipulation.

And how is what I posted an example of what I accused Vox of?  You mean the meme fact checked by unbias fact checking website Snopes as mostly true?

Even if they're white? So if I call the meth head white girl from the trailer park ghetto trash for being loud and obnoxious it's OK. But if I call black Tiesha ghetto trash for being loud and obnoxious, I'm a racist. Sure, that hypocrisy makes perfect sense. You people are fruitcakes, haha.

Snopes gave it a mixture rating.  Not mostly true.

In the analysis they said it was mostly correct factually, (not a fabrication,) but the facts were presented in such away to completely misrepresent the actual situation being discussed.  What you accused Vox of doing.

Snopes is left leaning. So if they say mostly correct, it's fully correct.

Trump is not a white supremacist.  I've hear him speak a lot, you could call him borderline racist at best.
You see Nazism as this ultimate evil, yet Communism not?  That is what the majority of those Antifa thugs believe in, that makes it just as bad as being a Nazi.
Excuse me for my assumption then, previous posts led me to believe you were completely against guns.
In my opinion, this is a rather rudimentary and anecdotal response to the shooter's personality.  Because he is calculated, doesn't mean he isn't mentally ill.  This was someone hurting from some sort of trauma.  His parents divorced when he was 12 years old, and his dad is a wackadoo, ex drug addict who had claimed to "speak to Jesus":  “Christ greeted me with a smile. He pulled his robe aside again with his right hand to reveal the flaming heart of love and compassion. He addressed me thus: ‘Bryan, you have chosen the Path of the Heart,'” he wrote.

https://nypost.com/2019/08/07/dad-of-accused-el-paso-shooter-is-a-licensed-counselor-who-battled-addiction/ (https://nypost.com/2019/08/07/dad-of-accused-el-paso-shooter-is-a-licensed-counselor-who-battled-addiction/)

He's also a licensed counselor, I don't think that's too relevant though.  So this kid comes from a broken home, which is what I stated as a reason, and I seriously doubt his father is in the picture being a drug and alcohol addict.  He has a lot of resentment, which leads to anger.  He has a shit role model for a father, so he looks for somewhere to belong.  Supremacy + resentment and anger lead to killing.  He's a psychopath that shows no remorse, that's the very definition of mental illness.  Don't mistake understanding him for sympathy, I'm all for giving this kid the death penalty, but I think it's important to understand how it got to this point instead of blaming it solely on white supremacists.
 
The common denominator in a gun related incident is a gun.  Yes, we understand that, just like all the killers ever across time breathed air.  Then you compare it to a country that banned guns?  We aren't England, we are the U.S.  We have a different culture, and no one should be asked to give up any sort of freedom because the system has flaws in it when one acquires a gun. 

I'm not sure how you can reference groups of blacks in successive posts and not see this, but let's try again:

Calling out specific, named people who exist (and happen to be black) for bad behavior is not racist.
Calling out a race of people for bad behavior (e.g. the multiple times on this board you have cited statistics "proving" that blacks are more violent) IS racist.  It's textbook racism.

It is not some sort of amazing development in social science to recite a bunch of statistics "proving" that other races are inferior; 19th century white supremacists already mastered this.  So every time someone think they are being a race realist by citing some study that shows that blacks have lower IQ, they are simply furthering white supremacism.  The white supremacists who write books like The Bell Curve never seem to get around to doing studies examining the impact of eye color on IQ... because they don't care about eye color.  They care about skin color.

Well, it turns out that a leading expert in the field (https://twitter.com/DrDavidDuke/status/1159168350301409280) agrees that white supremacy is a hoax manufactured by the liberal media:

(https://i.screenshot.net/api/webpage-capture?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FDrDavidDuke%2Fstatus%2F1159168350301409280&format=png&width=1000)

However, it is likely that the goalpost-moving left will continue to smear David Duke as a white supremacist himself, even though he has repeatedly disavowed it (as above).

If David Duke says he's not a white supremacist, then he must not be one; that's how it works.  And by that standard, white supremacists have been all-but-eliminated in the US.  I mean, when even active KKK members insist that they aren't racist (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfntD7vLW0w), that must mean that racism has been purged from the republic, right?

Many well known racists of color supported Obama and many of his ideals. That in and of itself does not make him a racist. 

Because he didn’t share those ideals.  Obama’s inner circle contained people of many races. Obama never was never sued for refusing to rent to whites.  Obama’s rhetoric was not of hate.  Trump has never given a  speech with anywhere close to the level of understanding and introspection about race as Obama’s address 3.18.2012.  And the racists with in the African-American community hate Obama for not embracing their ideals and for not being black enough, white nationalist love Trump and consider him one of their own.   

The fact David Duke loves Trump is not enough in itself to conclude Trump is a racist.  But his  campaign speech about Mexico sending murders and rapist, his travel ban on Muslims, his comments about Judge Gonzalo P. Curiel, his support of the Neonazi martchers, his discriminating in housing, his not having anyone of color in his inner circle, etc the list is endless is more than enough for any person to realize Trump is a racist.  Even David Duke realizes Trump is a white nationalist.

Some white supremacists support Trump.  A lot think he's a "Jewish Shill".

Since you cannot possibly know what the majority of antifa believes in, I have to assume that you actually just read a couple of antifa members saying that and you decided to apply that to all of antifa. For the record, what antifa actually believes in is stopping fascism in all its forms.

I do understand why you (and many others) apply that blanket statement though... it definitely is much easier to say that you're against communism than it is to say you support fascism.

LMAO ... I don't think there could be more ironic thing to say. Facism by definition is "forcible suppression of opposition".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States))
Activists involved in the movement tend to be anti-capitalists[19] and subscribe to a range of ideologies, typically on the left. They include anarchists, socialists and communists along with some liberals and social democrats.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifaschistische_Aktion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifaschistische_Aktion)
Antifaschistische Aktion (German: [ˌantifaˈʃɪstɪʃə ʔakˈtsi̯oːn]), abbreviated as Antifa (German: [ˈantifaː]), was an organisation affiliated with the Communist Party of Germany that existed from 1932 to 1933.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2017/08/16/who-are-the-antifa/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2017/08/16/who-are-the-antifa/)
But what is antifa? Where did it come from? Militant anti-fascist or “antifa” (pronounced ANtifa) is a radical pan-leftist politics of social revolution applied to fighting the far right. Its adherents are predominantly communists, socialists and anarchists who reject turning to the police or the state to halt the advance of white supremacy.
https://www.discoverthenetworks.org/organizations/antifa/ (https://www.discoverthenetworks.org/organizations/antifa/)
A Communist & Anarchist Movement That Explicitly Endorses Violence

Antifa is a revolutionary Marxist/anarchist militia movement that seeks to bring down the United States by means of violence and intimidation.

(https://capitalresearch.org/app/uploads/DB_1isiXgAAdPci.jpg)
(https://i.cbc.ca/1.4010284.1488654984!/fileImage/httpImage/image.JPG_gen/derivatives/16x9_780/m-103-protest-montreal.JPG)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DENwosIXcAALpqV.jpg)

Yeah, I don't know where I got that idea.  ::)

In addition, please clarify your last statement.  Are you calling me a fascist?

Kinda irrelevant, as trumps support from white supremacists is not the a the basis for concluding Trump is racist.  It is his own words and conduct that makes it clear he is a racist.  It is his racism that has gotten him their support.

It's not clear at all, but your hate for him is goin to blind you either way.

Totally false.  I didn’t hate him until I realized he was a racist.  I was pretty neutral on him for a very long time.  And even when was on his birth certificate kick, I didn’t attribute that to racism.  I knew their was racist elements to the birther movement.  But I chalked his support up to him not like Obama for some reason but not necessarily racism. 

And when his name was first floated for prez. I wasn’t opposed to him, thinking he might be a bloomberg/snow/christie moderate republican.  It wasn’t until I started hearing his campaign speeches that I realized he was a racist and hated him.

To be clear I don’t think he is a racist because I hate him, I hate him because I know he is a racist.  It was his racism that caused me to hate him. 

That's a lot of talk with no substance.  Examples please. 

What?????  

I didn’t hate Trump until started giving racist speeches.  I can’t give you an example of me not hating him before learning he was racist.  I was pretty neutral on him.

I also can’t give you example of me not hating Bill Cosby before learning he was a rapist.  But I did enjoy his standup and tv shows.

Now with OJ Simpson, I never liked him because he played for the Bills but up until he murdered two people my dislike of him was on par with my dislike of  Mercury Morris, now my hatred for him is much higher, and btw equal to Arron Herdendez so I don’t think it really is a football bias thing.

There are plenty of republicans that i have disagreed with.  But I never accused
McCain from being racist because he was trying to block the country from having its first black president.  Because that wasn’t what McCain was doing, McCain had policy disagreements with Obama.  Likwise Roomney was trying to remove Obama from office.  That wasn’t racist.  

Trump is a racist.  That is why I hate him.  

Why are more and more blacks supporting him if he is racist?

I am not going to respond to a question premised on a falsehood.  He has very very few minority supporters.

So what you're really saying is that FBI statistics are racist? Or are you saying that someone pointing out statistics is racist? As far as I can tell it's common sense. If you have group A, group B, and group C. And group B kills other people at a much higher rate than the other 2 groups, then group B is the most violent group. It doesn't seem like you can separate your feelings from the facts.

Now, if you want to attack the information, that's fine. However, attacking me by calling me a racist makes you look silly. There is no big conspiracy against black people. If you can't even recognize and admit the problems, then you aren't interested in fixing them. And that makes you no better than Mitch McConnell, Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi,  Kevin McCarthy, or any other of those idiot fucktards that do nothing but lie, spin, and deflect every day.

Let me clarify, I meant examples of his racist speeches.  I can probably think of one that's borderline, so that's what I was asking examples for.

It keeps climbing.  According to polls he is polling at about 33-35% where he was at 26% when elected. That represents millions of people ... which according to you is very few minorities.

Heck ... even the liberal leaning New York Times just published an article talking about how much more popular Trump is polling than when he started.  https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/07/upshot/trump-approval-rating-rise.html

"Donald J. Trump doesn’t always seem like a candidate focused on expanding his base of support. He may have done so anyway.

The share of Americans who say they have a favorable view of him has increased significantly since the 2016 election."

While there is literally 100s of examples of Trump making blatantly racist statements....

If you don’t consider Trump’s comments about Judge Cruiel blatant racism...than you are a racist.

If you don’t consider Trump’s speeches about Mexicans racist....than you are a racist.

If you don’t consider Trump’s Muslim travel ban racist....than you are a racist.

You should vote for Trump....like David Duke you have he is a president that supports your racist views.   But don’t pretend he is not racist and you wouldn’t support a racist.  Admit to yourself you are a racist, and you support him because you support his white nationalist agenda.

You can cut your garbage virtue signaling out.  You aren't the authority on what is racist and what isn't.  None of that stuff is blatantly racist IMO, borderline at best, which is what I said.  Admit to yourself that your holier than thou, soapbox preaching isn't worth a hill of beans.  This bullshit of calling everyone racist is getting really old.  It's the boy who cried wolf at this point.  I might not be able to call you a racist, but I can call you something else...Asshole.  Big giant asshole.  Fuck you for calling me a racist when you don't know a thing about me.  What you said is such an ignorant blanket statement, there really is no point talking to you anymore about it if you are that delusional.

InB4 Thread Locked.

Definition of racism is pretty straightforward.  It is judging someone by their race.

You can’t get more textbook examples of racism the ones I listed.  An American Judge of Mexican descent is incapable of being impartial in adjudicating a fraud trial because of his Mexican heritage.  You don’t get more textbook than that.  There is absolutely nothing borderline. 

Yes. The citation of statistics referencing intelligence, criminality, or similar judgments of inferiority/superiority, with the implied conclusion that skin color affects the outcome, is racist.

Bigots across the centuries have cited impartial statistics to "prove" the inferiority of other ethnic groups.  The practice is as old as the existence of the social sciences themselves.

I have a very small issue with you thinking he's racist for those comments.  That's your opinion and I disagree, even if it's a very tired point.  I have a very big issue with you calling me a racist.  Even if you are using the proverbial "you", I still have an big issue with those sorts of comments.  Because I don't find it to be racist does not make me a racist.  The world is not black and white, it's shades of gray.  These identity politics are killing our country, and pretty much this board too.  No one posts on here anymore, unless it's to argue about politics.  I just posted how former Dolphin Quinn broke his hand and how we got the better part of that deal, and no comments.  We just signed a former first round draft pick cut from the Cardinals today, low risk high reward, and no one makes a thread about it.  Tons of stories about camp, nothing here.  Preston Williams, undrafted free agent killing it in camp, nothing here.  But one comment or thread about polarizing politics and release the hounds.  Oh, and if anyone cares, the Dolphins first preseason game is tonight, but you wouldn't know if you were checking out this board.  Really sad, because I used to love this board, but it's turning into a ghost town in the most important part, phins talk. 

EDIT:  Just saw your comment on Quinn thread...well that's one at least.

Who said skin color affects anything? A certain group is more violent, while another group may have more pedophiles, while yet another group may have more divorces. None of those are positive things. However, they aren't judgments. They are statistical facts. You just can't accept reality, just like most liberals.

I guess that depends on whether you believe there is a meaningful distinction between "You are a racist" and "You support and defend racists."

The forum is always dead during the offseason and usually dead during the preseason.  We aren't going to get 10 page discussions about Fitzpatrick vs. Rosen until the season starts.

There's also a 3rd point there, is he really racist and to what degree, but there's really no point arguing that with the left.  It's hard to have that discussion when everything right of center is deemed racist.  Just go on Twitter, that's all they tweet about.

I'd like to think this place will liven up once the season starts, but it's depressing to see no talk at all when there's stuff to talk about.  We'll see, I hope so.

You do when you cite statistics that separate groups by race.  That's the point.

Unless your point is that the statistics you cite to prove that blacks are more likely to be violent are actually meaningless and irrelevant...?

Is the FBI racist for posting those facts?  I don't think those facts are racist.  I don't think crime committed by African Americans happens just because they are black either though.  I stated earlier, coming from a broken home, specifically without a father figure (75% of African Americans have no father) correlates highly with violent crime.  Young men seek a sense of belonging with no guidance and end up in gangs or just the wrong crowd.  It's the same with the mass shooters.  Pair that with living in poverty and the individual has an intense drive of resentment and anger, and it's an even higher likelihood of violent crime.  That's not a black thing, it's a broken home and poverty thing.

Conversation over, you've officially gone fucking nuts. Go argue with the FBI and THEIR stats.

I don’t. To me that is like classifying some of the neonazis at the Charlottesville rally as good people.  


Maybe we will get lucky and tomorrow get a detailed analysis on why one of them is vastly superior to the other based on their different DOVA stats against the Falcons.  🙂


There can be some grey on what is racism.  There was times when I would hear a vicious attack on Obama that some thought was racist, and I always tried to step back and say could this not be racism but simply the person just didn’t like Obama.  Which I did with Trump and his birther crap.  I was like maybe it is racism, but maybe its not.  I am going to give Trump the benefit of the doubt and go with just being an a-hole.  Likewise while some criticism of Israel is rooted in anti-semitism I always try to give the benefit of the doubt that it is criticism of a particular governments policies and not antisemitism.  But there gets to be a point were we are not borderline, and Trump and those who support him gone well past that line.  

Likewise, if you as an NRA fan aren’t outraged at Philando Castile‘s egregiously killed for exercising his second amendment rights than the ONLY possible explanation is a racist opinion that the 2A only applies to whites.

Defending David Duke is racism.  And so is defending Donald Trump.  

For the record, you've called roughly half of America, CF, Pondwater and myself a racist for defending the President of the United States.  And you're a mod.  What a fucking joke.

You say this as if it's impossible for the leader of the country to be a racist.  If David Duke wins an election for President, does that mean he can't be a racist because Americans elected him?

If you want to defend Trump's statements on the merits, then do so.  But "A lot of people voted for him, therefore he's not a racist" does not prove that racism is a fringe element in America; if anything, the opposite.

To call users on this board racists, for supporting the president,
when he is borderline racist at best is offensive and downright Looney.  Frankly, it's a personal attack, which I responded in kind by calling him an asshole, which he is.  No one gives a shit about David Duke, I can't understand why you keep bringing him up.  Why does everything have to be this enormous extreme?

Explain why Trumps comments about Judge Cruiel aren’t racist.  What element of racism is a little murky that could make those comments not racist? 

At least Ross is somewhat honest.  He acknowledges Trump is racist, but cares more about tax cuts than racism.  So he will take what he views as the good with the bad.  I don’t agree with his priorities but at least he recognizes the racism.  Ryan and many Republicans at first were like this, yeah what Trump said about Cruiel is racist, but given the choice of having a blatant racist appointing judges that are progun and antiabortion I will take the racist over Hillary appointing judges.  But they have shifted to now claiming it is not racism.   

I find it no more looney than those who are much more interested in disputing accusations of racism than in disputing the underlying actions that caused the accusations in the first place.

You just said it yourself: whether or not it IS racist for Trump to say that a Mexican-American judge is unfit to preside over his case is a "very small issue" to you, but whether or not we CALL IT "racist" to defend that statement is a "very big issue" to you.  It's like you think accusations of racism are worse than racism itself.

As for why I keep bringing up David Duke: he is one of the few famous white people alive that conservatives will actually acknowledge is a racist, so he's really the only example I can use to get a response on how to handle overt racism (because you guys will just say "not a racist" for everyone else).

The FBI wasn't the one citing those stats to justify the killing of unarmed black people; you were.

The statistics themselves are not racist.  Citing them to prove a point about the inferiority (in this case, criminal) of another race is.

just gonna leave that here

The stats don't say inferior. The stats say more violent. If the stats aren't racist, then citing them isn't racist.

Although I agree with some of your points of view, your comments above that criticize fellow members for their posts, when you are just as guilty, is hypocritical.  This thread started out to be a nice D4L trolling post about what kind of bulletproof vest he should get, and by post #4 you derailed it into talking about Tyson's tweet.  Then in post #23 you brought up Trump and video games; in our society today mentioning Trump is like throwing gasoline on a fire.  So don't get all high and mighty complaining about political posts when you are front and center in the action.  With that said maybe it's time for a moderator to shut down this thread as it stopped being about bullet proof vests early on.  Now I'm left wondering what D4L is going to do to protect himself at the supermarket when a couple housewives are arguing over a head of lettuce.   ???

Post #4 was an attempt to show how unlikely he was to be in a mass shooting and need a vest, putting things in perspective.  It failed at that.  I was fine with the back and forth before being called a racist for no reason.  I don't take that shit lightly, you can ruin someone's life with words like that, and it's thrown around so cavalier.  I don't hear you complaining about that.  I should be able to bring up the president without everyone going insane, I was even criticizing him about the video game thing.  Whatever I got preachy, sure.

Although we agree on most shit because we're racist homophobic Nazi assholes according to the leftist mods. I can disagree with you that you get too worked up about it. I'm guilty of it too sometimes. However, I'm here for the Miami Dolphins football. There are plenty of other Miami Dolphins topics on here to discuss. That's what I'm here for. And in those other topics there are (or will be soon) really good discussions. It's the off season and it's hot outside. It makes all us all crazy, hahah.

Everyone has there own personal political, religion, and world views. I'll debate anyone about my beliefs, but I ain't going to stress about it. But I ain't gonna get all worked up about it. Do you really care what these people think about you? You shouldn't, that's their plan.

As far as I'm concerned, me and Spider could sit down for nachos and beer and have a good time. I'll be in central Florida in November and December. Who's up for it?

Like I said at the start of my last post, I agree with much of what you are saying.  And I know within the last year I've made a post about the word "racist" being over used, and really not used appropriately.  I've never met anyone from this site (especially since I live in Upstate NY), and most on here haven't physically sat down and spent time with others from this site; a lot gets lost in translation having not made a physical connection with a person.  I could think your the nicest person having never met you, and then meet you and think what a jerk that guy is (or vice versa), so I agree it's troubling when people want to throw around labels based on a few internet posts.

I do want to clarify this misconception.  I do NOT believe that every single person who cast a ballot for Trump is a racist.  Two of my friends are lifelong republicans who cast their ballots for Trump, and they are not racists.  However, they hate Trump.  They know he is racist.  They feel he is destroying both the country and the republican party.  They voted for him because they hated Hillary more.  One of them is having second thoughts and thinks the country would have better off with her, but horrible in different ways.  The other stands by his decision and that Hillary would have been worse, even though he feels Trump is much worse than he expected.  Both are horribly disappointed that republican senators and  representatives have done nothing to rein him in and was counting on Ryan keep Trump in check.  Both would be thrilled if Trump died cause they love Pence. 

Both are campaigning for William Weld even though they consider him way too liberal and barely a Republican. But would be better than “the current asshole who can’t even manage a hospital visit without being a fucking douche”

Neither are betting Weld will win the nomination but are praying the party regains its sanity in time for the primaries.  Neither has made a final decision on how they will vote if Trump gets the nomination, both say who the democrat is will play a huge factor and it would be a lot easier to hold their noses and vote for Biden than Warren. 

Both of them hate AOC, but are disgusted at the prez for telling her to go back to PR.

And that is consistent with what they said during the Obama administration, they hared Obama.  They thought Obamacare was a horrible law.  They attacked Obama on what they viewed as his flaws, but they also felt the birthers were fucking morons.  Their attitude was their was more than enough legitimate reasons to hate Obama you don’t need to invent bullshit ones.

Sadly, the are a tiny minority of republicans today.

Something else that can ruin - or even end - peoples' lives is when the President of the United States says that a certain ethnic group, comprised of criminals and rapists (and, he assumes, some good people), is invading our country.  But apparently, you believe that saying such things is less dangerous than CALLING that kind of talk "racist."