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Title: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: Defense54 on March 19, 2008, 10:02:27 pm http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/21584.html
Quote As Dolphin fans sift through the reports, rumors, information, disinformation, misinformation and just plain lies about Miami's draft-weekend plans, now seems to be a good time to cull the facts from the myths regarding what Bill Parcells and friends are planning to do April 26. 1. The Dolphins have the first pick in the draft. FACT. It's always good to start with a point on which we can all agree. 2. The Dolphins want to trade out of the top spot. MYTH. There has been only speculation about this with nothing definitive coming out of Miami about trading out of the top position. While no team wants to take on the financial obligation that comes along with the No. 1 pick in the draft, this is the simple economic reality of the NFL today 3. Jerry Jones covets Darren McFadden enough to swap the Cowboys' 22nd and 28th picks in the first round to get Miami's No. 1. MYTH. In fact, Jones has specifically refuted this. At the combine in February, Jones said that the two teams have not discussed working a trade and that the only reason for a team to trade up for the first pick would be to take Matt Ryan, whom Jones considers "franchise material." So don't look for the Cowboys and Dolphins to swap first-round positions. 4. The Dolphins had representatives at the pro day workouts of Matt Ryan and Chris Long on March 18. FACT. The headline could read "Dolphins do due diligence." It'd be cheesy, but that's what the headline could read. 5. Miami has scheduled private meetings with all of the top candidates in the draft. MYTH. To date, Miami has scheduled private meetings with Ryan, Chris Long and Jake Long. According to their agents, no such meetings have been scheduled with McFadden, Vernon Gholston, Glenn Dorsey or Sedrick Ellis. 6. The Dolphins have room under the salary cap to keep and sign the No. 1 pick. FACT. Despite bringing in more than a dozen new faces since the start of this year's NFL free-agency period, the Dolphins are still somewhere around $20 million under the cap. Last year's top overall draft pick, JaMarcus Russell, signed a six-year, $61 million contract with $32 million guaranteed. To avoid turning this column into a discourse on theoretical mathematics (salary-cap math), just trust me when I tell you that his contract counts just over $10 million per year against the Raiders' cap. Even if the Dolphins were to draft a quarterback with the first pick -- and pay the so-called quarterback premium -- they could make this work under the cap. But the real fact of the matter is that Parcells is known to keep his draft cards close to the vest, meaning the chance of any meaningful information being uncovered in advance is pretty slim. Parcells has also been known to leak misinformation to the media in order to mask his true intentions and use this to his negotiating advantage. While this can be frustrating to those seeking information, it has proven to be an effective way to run a football team. Which brings me to my final point: 7. Parcells knows more about running a draft and an NFL franchise than all the writers and fans put together. And that, my friends, is an irrefutable fact. I really like #7.............Man we haven't had a good draft since about 96-97 when Jimmy first took over. Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: ethurst2 on March 20, 2008, 02:31:46 am I'm not a draft follower at all because I barely watch College Football with the exception of the big games.
I would like to see Miami go for o-line and d-line depth. I think it's safe to say that you build your offense or defense from the interior positions first. The only time I can remember Miami taking two defensive linemen in the first round was in 1977. Bob Baumhower - DT - Alabama A.J. Duhe - DE - LSU These guys became the core of the Killer B defense. In 78, they added Kim Bokamper and made him a defensive end and got Doug Betters at defensive tackle who became Defensive Player of the Year in 1983. Same philosophy on offense. Miami drafted Mark Dennard, Eric Laakso, Dwight Stephenson with Ed Newman and Bob Kuechenberg as the mainstays. The result from the drafts between 77 - 82 resulted in two Super Bowl appearances (1983 -1985). The next best draft was in 1990 (Richmond Webb and Keith Sims who were linemen). You can always find a diamond in the rough at the receiver or the running back spot. Terrell Davis was a 6th Round pick of the Broncos that made his mark on Special teams. If you don't have a Barry Sanders who had the gift from God on making people miss, then a premier back is going to have it tough with a shabby o-line. Give Ronnie and Ricky a line and beef up the D-Line and Miami is on it's way back to prominence. Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: YoFuggedaboutit on March 20, 2008, 09:39:24 am ^^^^^ We still need a quarterback, some linebackers, Ginn to escalate his game to where he has the potential too, and better secondary. Games are won and lost at the point of attack. That is on both sides of the line. Beef up your line and you can win with a game-managing QB. Case in point... the 2000 Baltimore Ravens winning a Super Bowl with.... TRENT DILFER?? Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: doctord56 on March 20, 2008, 10:11:20 am I'm not a draft follower at all because I barely watch College Football with the exception of the big games. I would like to see Miami go for o-line and d-line depth. I think it's safe to say that you build your offense or defense from the interior positions first. Same philosophy on offense. Miami drafted Mark Dennard, Eric Laakso, Dwight Stephenson with Ed Newman and Bob Kuechenberg as the mainstays. The result from the drafts between 77 - 82 resulted in two Super Bowl appearances (1983 -1985). The next best draft was in 1990 (Richmond Webb and Keith Sims who were linemen). Give Ronnie and Ricky a line and beef up the D-Line and Miami is on it's way back to prominence. A very well thought out post, Ethurst. Just wanted to mention, in line with your analysis, that the Dolphins also drafted John Giesler in the first round out of Michigan in 1979. Giesler was a superb left offensive tackle, arguably the second best OT in team history, and a mainstay on the line for a decade. He was well known for dominating loud mouth Mark Gastineau when the Dolphins played the Jets. Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: CF DolFan on March 20, 2008, 11:02:23 am loud mouth Mark Gastineau when the Dolphins played the Jets. Man ... I really loved this guy up until he quit football to play around with that big ugly Russian! He's been a fruit cake every since! :'(Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: Doc-phin on March 20, 2008, 02:21:46 pm 20 million under the cap... I wish I had a better understanding of how good or bad this is. I am happy they explained the cap number for Russell, but I still don't really have a feel for what kind of money it would take to sign everyone from this draft.
I wish I knew some sort of average (and maybe the high and low) of what cap money was spent for last years draft class. You have to assume that this year would be a little higher the way trends have gone. Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: TonyB0D on March 20, 2008, 02:43:17 pm Games are won and lost at the point of attack. That is on both sides of the line. Beef up your line and you can win with a game-managing QB. Case in point... the 2000 Baltimore Ravens winning a Super Bowl with.... TRENT DILFER?? Tommy, this is by FAR the rare exception, and not the rule. That year, the Ravens had one of the greatest defenses the game has EVER seen, and Dilfer just didn't make too many boneheaded plays. Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: fyo on March 20, 2008, 02:58:51 pm Two words:
Brad Johnson Oh, and the Super Bowl XXXVI champions didn't exactly have a great quarterback either, although he's developed quite a bit since then (but is still massively overrated). That Manning guy this year... well, he's not exactly a great quarterback in my book. He pulled a "Dilfer" (i.e., to quote you, "just didn't make too many boneheaded plays"). Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: Defense54 on March 20, 2008, 03:06:40 pm I think there is a good possibility That Parcells is paying a lot of attention to Matt Ryan to stir up interest for that #1 pick. You just never know with him ........and that's why I love him. ;D Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: TonyB0D on March 20, 2008, 03:16:13 pm Two words: Brad Johnson Oh, and the Super Bowl XXXVI champions didn't exactly have a great quarterback either, although he's developed quite a bit since then (but is still massively overrated). That Manning guy this year... well, he's not exactly a great quarterback in my book. He pulled a "Dilfer" (i.e., to quote you, "just didn't make too many boneheaded plays"). no way, FYO, manning made the THROWS this postseason. he just didn't manage games, he took the team on his back when the chips were down and blossomed into a leader. he was really throwing some bombs and making clutch plays....i can't really say that he "just played it safe" Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: StL FinFan on March 20, 2008, 03:52:03 pm The Dolphins will draft Matt Ryan with the fist pick. MYTH
Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: YoFuggedaboutit on March 20, 2008, 05:13:31 pm Tommy, this is by FAR the rare exception, and not the rule. That year, the Ravens had one of the greatest defenses the game has EVER seen, and Dilfer just didn't make too many boneheaded plays. You just proved my point. You own the point of attack, you can win with a game-managing QB. Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: DolFan619 on March 20, 2008, 05:20:31 pm You just proved my point. You own the point of attack, you can win with a game-managing QB. It was that same mentality that made Wannstedt stick with Fiedler for so long, and look where that got the Dolphins. Guys like Trent Dilfer, Mark Rypien, and Brad Johnson are the exceptions, not the rule. Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: bsfins on March 20, 2008, 05:50:46 pm Anyone else realize what All those guy's mentioned had in common...(Trent Dilfer,Brad Johnson,We'll throw in Rex Grossman,and Even Eli Manning to an extent) Uncommonly great defenses playing the other side of the ball...Defenses that could score....Defenses that took their opponents out of their game,and were historically great.
Last time I checked the Dolphins are far from a great defense anymore....Teams that happen to have those incredible defenses typically don't have much money left for one of those franchise QB's....Eventually they sacrifice Defense,for better offenses..... I say No (for the Billionth time) on Matt Ryan...Just because he's the (supposedly) best QB in the draft doesn't mean he's a franchise QB....It just means his shit doesn't smell quite as bad as the rest.... Edited to Note this sidebar..Let's also take into effect that when Dilfer won the Superbowl with the Ravens,they were playing the Giants..Brian Billick,and Jim Fassel were best friends,both known as Offensive guy's...Billick had an advantage of knowing Fassels offensive ideas....Then in 2003 when Tampa bay won,they were playing the Raiders where Gruden,was the head coach the previous year..... Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: simeon on March 20, 2008, 06:24:42 pm For a billonth time I say yes to Matt Ryan.
We need a francise QB, and this is our best beat. Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: StL FinFan on March 20, 2008, 06:38:47 pm The Dolphins will draft Matt Ryan with the fist pick. MYTH I really hate it when I am compelled to quote myself. Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: simeon on March 20, 2008, 08:48:22 pm I hope you are wrong.
Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: StL FinFan on March 20, 2008, 08:50:35 pm I'm not.
Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: Guru-In-Vegas on March 20, 2008, 09:32:53 pm ^ I agree with you. Although I'm not sold on Beck, I think it would be a massive mistake to draft a QB first round.
Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: YoFuggedaboutit on March 20, 2008, 10:00:57 pm ^ I agree with you. Although I'm not sold on Beck, I think it would be a massive mistake to draft a QB first round. I agree as well. I can see the Dolphins drafting a QB, but not Matt Ryan, and definitely not with the 1st overall pick. Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: Defense54 on March 20, 2008, 10:20:59 pm For a billonth time I say yes to Matt Ryan. We need a francise QB, and this is our best beat. The very word BET means chance. It could also mean disaster to have 60 Million and a $25 Million $ signing bonus wrapped up in a BET. I think The Tuna is priming the well . Its also rumored that The Raiders Covet McFadden. If we can make them think he's gonna go in the Top 3 we might have some trading leverage. We might just grab him and deal him down the line for ryan. Who knows...........? Thats why they pay the Tuna the big bucks i guess. ;) Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: JonBGoode on March 21, 2008, 05:43:31 am Why do we need a "Franchise" QB, whatever that is anyway? It didn't help the Pats this SB did it? And people say Matt Ryan is a "franchise" QB and the guy hasn't taken one ball from under center or thrown one pass in an NFL football game. Matt Ryan may or may not pan out as an NFL QB only time will tell about that. There are just as many BUST at #1 in QB as there are ok QB's taken there.
Joe Gibbs won three SB's in his first trip with the Redskins and he did it with 3 different QB's. That in and of itself proves that you don't have to have a great QB to win the SuperBowl but you do have to have a GREAT team. Sure Eli had a great game in the SB but so did his recievers. He threw it but they HAD to catch it. That Catch is, without a doubt in my mind, the greatest catch I've ever seen in a SB. But he doesn't make that catch and the Pats move into Perfectville; thats just how great it was. We need alot of talent on this team, and in my mind, QB is not high on that list. Not now. Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: Defense54 on March 21, 2008, 09:29:57 am Why do we need a "Franchise" QB, whatever that is anyway? It didn't help the Pats this SB did it? It sure helped the last 3 Superbowls they played in though................ ::) Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: bsmooth on March 21, 2008, 11:55:43 am It sure helped the last 3 Superbowls they played in though................ ::) So did that system and all its players. Denver's franchise HOF qb was 2-5 in SB's. Hell even a HOF qb does not mean you will get to, or much less win a SB. Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: Defense54 on March 21, 2008, 07:26:04 pm So did that system and all its players. Denver's franchise HOF qb was 2-5 in SB's. Hell even a HOF qb does not mean you will get to, or much less win a SB. You can look for exceptions on both sides of the argument. You have Marino on one side and you have The Mannings , Brady, Big Ben. The fact is with a high Powered QB there is always the case, like with Marinio, that you may never win a championship. But you WILL win games. If we have learned anything the last 10 years in Miami its you can't win anything with a caretaker behind center. Even when your running-back is good for over 1800 yds a season. You cannot be consistent without a long-term solution at QB. Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: StL FinFan on March 21, 2008, 07:28:29 pm ^ I agree with you, I just don't think Ryan is the guy we are looking for. Maybe we can find a gem in the later rounds, or next year will have a better QB pool.
Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: YoFuggedaboutit on March 22, 2008, 01:33:58 am So did that system and all its players. Denver's franchise HOF qb was 2-5 in SB's. Hell even a HOF qb does not mean you will get to, or much less win a SB. John Elway was 2-3 in Super Bowls. Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: simeon on March 22, 2008, 02:05:05 am Let's see theres
Troy Akins, Joe Montana, Steve Young, Breet Farve, Tom Brady, Payton Manning,Terry Bradshaw, Roger Staubauch, John Elway, who in the hell need's a franchise qb like the ones I mentioned ? Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: Philly Fin Fan on March 22, 2008, 02:49:44 am John Elway was 2-3 in Super Bowls. I think bsmooth meant he was 2 out of 5. Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: Philly Fin Fan on March 22, 2008, 02:52:11 am Let's see theres Troy Akins, Joe Montana, Steve Young, Breet Farve, Tom Brady, Payton Manning,Terry Bradshaw, Roger Staubauch, John Elway, who in the hell need's a franchise qb like the ones I mentioned ? First thing, learn the names of the QBs if you are going to list them. Secondly- a "franchise QB" can be found lots of places. 3 of the QBs you listed were traded from the teams that drafted them. For the record- Manning, Bradshaw, Aikman and Elway were first overall. Young was a supplemental draft pick. Montana was a 3rd rounder, Staubach was a 10th rounder, Favre was a 2nd rounder, and Brady was a 6th rounder. Young, Favre, and Elway were traded away from the teams that drafted them. Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: bsfins on March 22, 2008, 03:11:31 am Let's see theres We all know your man love for Matt Ryan...but your reasons why we need to draft him with the first overall pick...lack merit....Troy Akins, Joe Montana, Steve Young, Breet Farve, Tom Brady, Payton Manning,Terry Bradshaw, Roger Staubauch, John Elway, who in the hell need's a franchise qb like the ones I mentioned ? Of those guy's you mentioned...Where they were drafted.... Troy Aikman (I'm assuming you don't mean Akins???) 1st pick over all....I guess Emmit,and that massive line had nothing to do with it... Steve young 1st round Supplemental draft Joe Montana 3rd round pick Brett Farve 2nd round pick Tom brady 6th round pick Peyton Manning 1st over all pick Roger Staubach 10th round pick Terry Bradshaw 1st over all pick Great defensive team that ran the ball,had great Wr's when they did Throw John Elway 1st overall pick....How many tries did he need to win the superbowl,ohh wait didn't win till he got T.Davis. Franchise QB's aren't always the first round picks.... How about Johnny Unitas 9th round pick Norman Van Brocklin 4th round pick Fran Tarkenton 3rd rounder Bart Starr 17th round Y.A. Tittle 1st round Dan Fouts 3rd round Oops..Sorry didn't know Philly was doing the same research that I was... :-\ :-[ Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: JonBGoode on March 22, 2008, 12:41:35 pm 20 million under the cap... I wish I had a better understanding of how good or bad this is. I am happy they explained the cap number for Russell, but I still don't really have a feel for what kind of money it would take to sign everyone from this draft. I wish I knew some sort of average (and maybe the high and low) of what cap money was spent for last years draft class. You have to assume that this year would be a little higher the way trends have gone. Normally 20 million in Cap would be good to have but this year picking at #1, unless we can trade out, means that we have to be able to take on the hit of drafting at #1. this means that you will have to have room to take on a 35 million $ hit over 5/6 years. The bonus alone is about 7 Million a year plus salary just for the one guy and we will have 8-10 other picks which will add to that figure. We also need to have money for needs during the year to be able to sign players if needed. Last year we set aside about 7 mil to sign the whole draft class so you can see the difference it makes. Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: fyo on March 22, 2008, 01:40:21 pm Last year we set aside about 7 mil to sign the whole draft class so you can see the difference it makes. I think you've misunderstood a few things in this regard. The NFL has a fixed rookie cap, sometimes also referred to as the rookie pool. The amount varies from team to team, depending on number of draft picks and where those picks fall in the the draft. Last year, our rookie cap was $5.367 million dollars. No team is allowed to spend more than the rookie cap in aggregate cap space on their draft picks and other rookie signings combined. The Raiders had the largest rookie cap last year, $6.913 million (11 draft picks, including the #1 overall). It stands to reason that Miami probably has pretty much the same amount available this year. It might be as high as $7.5 million, but that's as high as I can see it go. In other words, rookie contracts are not a problem in terms of 2008 cap space. Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: Defense54 on March 22, 2008, 02:53:55 pm ^ I agree with you, I just don't think Ryan is the guy we are looking for. Maybe we can find a gem in the later rounds, or next year will have a better QB pool. I'm not sold on Ryan and for the record I don't think Parcells is either. He's trying to pump up interest for that #1 spot. I'm holding out hope for Colt Brennan in the later rounds but he does not fit Parcells profile for a QB at all. But unless Beck did something Horribly wrong.........and I don't see anywhere where he did, We won't be taking a QB in the 1st round. But taking some insurance on day 2 would be wise. Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: bsmooth on March 22, 2008, 05:51:32 pm I'm not sold on Ryan and for the record I don't think Parcells is either. He's trying to pump up interest for that #1 spot. I'm holding out hope for Colt Brennan in the later rounds but he does not fit Parcells profile for a QB at all. But unless Beck did something Horribly wrong.........and I don't see anywhere where he did, We won't be taking a QB in the 1st round. But taking some insurance on day 2 would be wise. From what I read it did not sound as if Colt did well enough at the combines to get rid of the tag he earned in college by playing in an ungodly weak conference that his team could not even dominate while racking up those crazy stats. Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: Defense54 on March 22, 2008, 11:15:22 pm From what I read it did not sound as if Colt did well enough at the combines to get rid of the tag he earned in college by playing in an ungodly weak conference that his team could not even dominate while racking up those crazy stats. I still think he's got a Razor arm. I mean you could say the same thing about Dan Marino ........His teams never dominated while racking up the best stats in the Buisness. Maybe he will fall into the 4th or 5th round. No way he goes any further then that. I'd love to see him picked up by us on the 2nd day to compete with Beck for that #2 spot. Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: Matt McGuire on March 23, 2008, 02:16:56 am Parcells is a little overrated in the draft imo. He passed up on the most legit LT prospect ever (the big bust being Mandarich) in Orlando Pace for just 3rd and 4th round picks...traded again because he didn't like Walter Jones.
Both where future HOFers. I consider Parcells that year to make one of the worst decisions with the #1 pick. With the way scouting has changed today, there is no way you can mess up that badly again and lose that much value in the Draft. FACT: Chris Long is a lock at #1. Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: Sunstroke on March 23, 2008, 04:19:34 am Good to see you up here, Matt... I am not quite ready to admit that Chris Long is a lock yet, but all evidence is certainly pointing that way. As long as we get a top shelf OT in round two, I guess I'm ok with it, but I think that Jake Long is going to end up outplaying a lot of touts' expectations by the time it's done. Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: Defense54 on March 23, 2008, 08:31:19 am Parcells is a little overrated in the draft imo. He passed up on the most legit LT prospect ever (the big bust being Mandarich) in Orlando Pace for just 3rd and 4th round picks...traded again because he didn't like Walter Jones. Both where future HOFers. I consider Parcells that year to make one of the worst decisions with the #1 pick. With the way scouting has changed today, there is no way you can mess up that badly again and lose that much value in the Draft. FACT: Chris Long is a lock at #1. No doubt Parcells ain't perfect. Nobody is. The draft is such a gamble that in my eyes as long as you are successful 50% of the time your the goods. I mean out of say 10 Picks you hit on 5 players that are still on the rooster after 3 years. Looking at Miami's draft record the past 10 yrs........50% is a HUGE upgrade. Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: Blue4me on March 23, 2008, 12:28:12 pm No doubt Parcells ain't perfect. Nobody is. The draft is such a gamble that in my eyes as long as you are successful 50% of the time your the goods. I mean out of say 10 Picks you hit on 5 players that are still on the rooster after 3 years. Looking at Miami's draft record the past 10 yrs........50% is a HUGE upgrade. How true. Growing up near Chicago as a Bears fan, we always pointed to the 1983 draft as the huge draft that made the 1985 team what it was. Round 1 #6 Jimbo Covert - OT Round 1 #18 Willie Gault - WR Round 2 #33 Mike Richardson - CB Round 3 #64 Dave Duerson - S Round 4 #91 Tom Thayer - G Round 4 #107 Pat Dunsmore - TE Round 8 #203 Richard Dent - DE Round 8 #219 Mark Bortz - G Round 9 #230 Rob Fada - G Round 9 #235 Mark Zavagnin - LB Round 10 #245 Anthony Hutchinson -RB Round 11 #286 Gary Worthy - RB Round 12 #313 Oliver Williams - WR You could argue they hit on 7 picks (Covert, Gault, Richardson, Duerson, Thayer, Bortz and Dent), with the remaining 5 as busts. The 7 hits were all instrumental winning the Super Bowl in the '85 season. What is interesting is the Bears drafted their QB (McMahon) the previous year (Rd. #1, pick #5) and then built the core of the O-line in this draft. So much for the argument of not drafting a QB without a decent O-line in place. (Matt Ryan argument!) They also drafted a LT (Covert) with the first pick. (Hello Jake Long?) But their Super Bowl MVP was a DE, Richard Dent, but not picked until Rd. 6. We know Chris Long will not drop until Rd. 6! My official prediction is Chris Long will be the pick. He is the closest thing to a lock and we cannot have another Rd. 1 bust. They will look further down for a LT and a QB to challenge John Beck. I think Beck can be an effective game manager, but not a Pro-Bowler. Parcells will look for an insurance QB later down the draft. Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: fyo on March 23, 2008, 01:53:06 pm You could argue they hit on 7 picks (Covert, Gault, Richardson, Duerson, Thayer, Bortz and Dent), with the remaining 5 as busts. So they hit on their top 4 picks? That's pretty much perfect. Calling the remaining 5, drafted mid-4th and down, busts is ridiculous. You can't be a bust if you were drafted in the fourth round, much less the 12th. Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: Blue4me on March 23, 2008, 04:05:33 pm So they hit on their top 4 picks? That's pretty much perfect. Calling the remaining 5, drafted mid-4th and down, busts is ridiculous. You can't be a bust if you were drafted in the fourth round, much less the 12th. You're right. "bust" is not the right word. They hit a few home runs in that draft. Getting Dent late was the clincher. The point is the Dolphins don't have to hit a home run with every pick, but they DO need to hit a few in this draft. 50% would be welcome! Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: bsfins on March 23, 2008, 04:57:45 pm ^ It's hard to "hit" when you change coaches,and philosphies,and direction every year or two..... But that's another arguement...
Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: doctord56 on March 23, 2008, 05:13:56 pm How true. Growing up near Chicago as a Bears fan, we always pointed to the 1983 draft as the huge draft that made the 1985 team what it was. Given Blue's comments, I looked back at dolphin history for the best top to bottom draft in history. I'd have to say 1970 fits the bill, especially if you count trading the first pick for HOF player Paul Warfield. 1st round--trade for Paul Warfield 2nd round-Jim Mandich 3rd round-Tim Foley 4th-Curtis johnson 7th-Jake Scott 9th-Hubert Ginn 12th-Mike Kolen The players drafted in the 6th, 8th, 10th, 11th, and 13th-17th round did not make the team. The 5th round pick was traded as part of the deal for a guy named Buoniconti, who joined the team the year before--not a bad pickup. Out of this draft they acquired a world class wide receiver by trade, a starting TE, three fourths of their starting defensive backfield including a future superbowl MVP, a starting OLB (Kolen), and last and least a special teamer (Ginn). Six of the guys who made the roster were major contributors to the great dolphin teams of the early 70's. Curtis johnson played for 9 seasons, Tim Foley for 11 (one pro bowl), Kolen for 8 seasons, Mandich for 8..overall, the best top to bottom draft in team history. To add to the embarrasment of riches, they added as free agents Doug Swift (starting OLB for 6 years) and future HOF center Jim Langer. GM Joe Thomas kicked ass that year. Other really good years for three or more impact/solid starter level players: 1968-Csonka, Dick Anderson, Jim Kiick 1969-Bill Stanfill, Bob Heinz, Merc, lloyd Mumphord 1980-Don McNeal, Dwight Stevenson, David Woodley 1983-Marino, Reggie Roby, Mark Clayton And that's about it.....note no draft with three impact players/solid starters in 25 years. In 1997 they drafted Sam Madison and Jason taylor, but I don't count Derick Rodgers (drafted third round that year) as anything but a journeyman. Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: Sunstroke on March 23, 2008, 06:50:37 pm ^ It's hard to "hit" when you change coaches,and philosphies,and direction every year or two..... But that's another arguement... ...but it's a really good argument, and "extremely" relevant to this thread. Building a football team in the really-real world of the NFL is the same as building any other business within a highly competitive market. It requires a solid plan, and it needs consistency and leadership in the decision-making. If you change plans, and planners, every couple of years, you undermine your ability to grow, and you consistently have parts of your business that don't fit with other parts of your business. Look at some of the great franchises in NFL history, whether it's the old Cowboys, 49ers, Steelers, or the current elite...Patriots, Colts, and you see a number of different ways of building a winning organization, but all had one thing in common...consistency in the decision-making. Enter Bill Parcells and Jeff Ireland...maybe even, to a lesser extent, Sparano. This is what I wish for the Miami Dolphins; that Parcells and Ireland settle in for "at least" 4-5 years, and as many more as their hearts feel up to. I want the same decision-makers in our draft room next year, and the year after, and the year after, etc... I want a cohesive plan to build a consistent winner, and I want the solidarity to carry that plan out. I want players that fit the system, because it was the same system they were brought into in the first place. I want players developed on a schedule so that when the starters' talents start to fade, more talent is ready to replace them on the field to avoid the penthouse-to-outhouse express roller coaster. I want this to be the last time we ever hear the words "with the #1 pick, Miami selects..." I want a team that regularly bitchslaps the Jets, Patriots and Bills, so the fans of the bitchslapped will keep their pie-holes closed on a more consistent basis. I want to win...and then next week, I want to win again. What more could any fan really want? ;) Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: Defense54 on March 23, 2008, 06:59:07 pm ^ It's hard to "hit" when you change coaches,and philosphies,and direction every year or two..... But that's another arguement... then what was Wannastadt's excuse? Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: doctord56 on March 23, 2008, 07:30:03 pm then what was Wannastadt's excuse? In keeping with Stroke's thesis, you need people in charge of player personnel who are consistently good at it. Wanny unfortunately was a persistently poor judge of talent, albeit in a consistent way. Wanny did have a vision and philosophy....A good defense, Jay Fiedler at QB, a good ball control running game, and try and win a lot of close 17-14 defensive slugfests in the 4th quarter. With some decent talent he inherited, he had winning teams at first, but with his insistence on sticking with the elf, terrible drafting, and desperation trades, the team declined and worsened. Wanny had a vision, but it was a flawed one and ultimately doomed. Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: fyo on March 23, 2008, 08:13:52 pm Wanny did have a vision and philosophy....A good defense, Jay Fiedler at QB, a good ball control running game I don't know whether to laugh or cry... Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: doctord56 on March 23, 2008, 08:16:46 pm I don't know whether to laugh or cry... Now I didn't say Wanny had a good vision or good philosophy....believing in Jay Fiedler as a championship level QB is more like a hallucinogenic vision. But getting back to my point, and Stroke's theorizing, is that consistency of management and an ongoing overarching philosophy in building a team is extremely important, but the caveat is that it has to be consistently good. (as opposed to consistently bad Wannastadtian levels of ongoing, overarching, shiteousness). Title: Re: Facts and Myths of the Dolphins upcoming draft......... Post by: bsfins on March 23, 2008, 10:48:40 pm I agree with what Stroke is saying,but as a fan, I'm worried Bill Parcells will cut in run in about 2 years...I just hope that the people he puts in place learn enough,to be worth a damn 4-5 years down the road.....
then what was Wannastadt's excuse? Wanny had to 4 years of shear ignorance....before losing power that final year....to Spielman,for a year,then Saban...Blah,Blah...Wanny was a major believer in the 1 player away theory,Screw the future,Win now,mentality....(see the Ricky Williams trade ) I'm sorry for hijacking the draft thread....I was just trying to make the point...(Which Stroke made my point make sense...) Edited to Reanswer Defens5499's question properly... Also the same Continuity issue happened with Wannstedt...the difference was it was the coordinator position,and it still rings true today.. Under Wanny.... Our Defensive coordinator..Jim Bates 2000 - 2004 Offensive coordinators 00 -01 Chan Gailey 02- 03 Norv Turner 04 Joel Collier,then Chris Forrester Still to this day,we've had a change in in our Offensive coordinators through Saban and Cameron 05 Scott Linehan 06 Mike Mularkey 07 Cam Cameron Defensive coordinators... 2005? Richard Smith,Dom Capers 06-07 |