The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

No bullshit partisanship...just issues.

I have trouble with Immigration.  I don't think that either political party has the correct answers.  I don't think that criminalizing immigration will help anything.  It won't stop it from happening.  It's better to be in jail in the US than in some parts of Mexico.  And it's worth the risk, quite frankly.

I also don't think that rounding them all up and shipping them back is viable either.  1) It's totally unrealistic and costly.  2) We need their unskilled labor.

The talk about jobs being taken from Americans is all scare tactics, in my opinion.

I think that also, by keeping these people in constant fear of getting caught, you're creating criminals, denying health care, opening the door for neglect, etc.

And I think that all the stuff about declaring English as a national language is a waste of time and won't work anyway.  People will speak what they want to in their own time.

I think that you can do whatever to the people who are already here.  Make them legal...don't....whatever.  I don't care all that much.  I think the big goal is to stop the influx of new people.  I support the fence.  Tall, wide, strong, with razor wire and moats, if needbe.  It's primitive and costly, but it's a real obstacle if you're a poor Mexican.

A lot of this, like my other posts lately comes down to realism.  It would be great if we could get rid of Mexicans in our country, but we can't.  By cutting off their work, they will get desperate and resort to crime.  It's how humans work.  You do what you have to in order to survive and help your family.  So, I don't really have a solution, but I think that many of the solutions presented won't work.  They are here.  They exist.  We have to deal with it, and realistically, it's better to keep track of them than to make them live in the shadows, unaccounted for.

THEY TOOK R JOBS!!!!!!!! ;D

I agree with Dave.

Originally, this country was very open. It was about 10 years after the Constitution was ratified that we passed the first xenophobic law. Now the Immigration and nationality act is chock full of such xenophobia.

This country will always have jobs that the educated, privileged middle class will think it is too good to do. As long as that ideology exists, immigrants will fill that spot. We need them.

 

Oddly, this is one of the few issues that I really don't have an opinion about.  I don't quite understand why that is. I haven't really been persuaded either way.

What can be done? Fences won't stop them. Sending illegals back only allows them to try again. Putting them in jail only adds to the overcrowding problem of our jail system. I don't think they should be allowed a free pass either. Maybe there is no "solution" so what we have is what we get.

the issue of them taking our jobs is not true  they do the menial jobs we won't do....we need them for dishwashing, lawnmowing, etc.

the problem is from their drain on the taxpayer's money when they go to the emergency room, things like that.  if you can make it here and get a job you should be allowed to apply for amnesty, and pay taxes like every other american.  stop the new ones from coming, account for and tax the ones that are here, and get rid of that "if ur child is born on our soil they're a citizen"...that one's a little bogus to me.

So you're advocating a mandatory national ID card, I see.

I have trouble with Immigration.  I don't think that either political party has the correct answers. 

Who doesn't have trouble with it

I don't think that criminalizing immigration will help anything. 

Too late it is illegal and has been for a very long time.

 It won't stop it from happening.  It's better to be in jail in the US than in some parts of Mexico.  And it's worth the risk, quite frankly.

How do you know this, do you have a study, or just opinon

I also don't think that rounding them all up and shipping them back is viable either. 
1) It's totally unrealistic and costly.  2) We need their unskilled labor.

We won't know until we try it, howabout police officers being allowed to do their jobs, let them call immigration. As far as unskilled labor, we have plenty unskilled workers in the USA.

The talk about jobs being taken from Americans is all scare tactics, in my opinion.

Have you seen the economy lately ?


I think that also, by keeping these people in constant fear of getting caught, you're creating criminals, denying health care, opening the door for neglect, etc.

Guess what if you don't break the law you don't need to fear the law, criminals create themselves.

And I think that all the stuff about declaring English as a national language is a waste of time and won't work anyway.  People will speak what they want to in their own time.

Every read the constitution, what language is it in ? Every go to the Supreme court, they speak English too.

I think that you can do whatever to the people who are already here.  Make them legal...don't....whatever.  I don't care all that much.  I think the big goal is to stop the influx of new people.  I support the fence.  Tall, wide, strong, with razor wire and moats, if needbe.  It's primitive and costly, but it's a real obstacle if you're a poor Mexican.

If the economy keeps tanking the Mexicans will want a fence to keep us out. How do you make them legal, do they jump ahead of people who have been waiting inline for years, to do it the legal way, nice message.

A lot of this, like my other posts lately comes down to realism.  It would be great if we could get rid of Mexicans in our country, but we can't. 

Why not deport them ?

 By cutting off their work, they will get desperate and resort to crime.  It's how humans work.  You do what you have to in order to survive and help your family. 

Are the Mexicans going to commit crimes Americans can't be bothered to commit ?

 So, I don't really have a solution, but I think that many of the solutions presented won't work.  They are here.  They exist.  We have to deal with it, and realistically, it's better to keep track of them than to make them live in the shadows, unaccounted for.

How are they tracked ? The Police officers are not allowed to ask them their immigration statis, so how are we keeping track of them ?

Their not hiding in the shadows ,just pop on over to any home depot, their out front.

huh?  what??  ???

A birth certificate is the de facto proof of citizenship. (You can get around the requirement, but it's by far the easiest way - and the one the authorities prefer).

So in order to get around "you were born here, you're a citizen", a national identity number, issued at birth or upon obtaining citizenship, is the only practical solution (and the solution used by just about every other industrialized country in the world).

Illegals take jobs period and create issues in the market the same way women did.  Had women not entered the market, men would make more money because there are less people competing for jobs.  The same is true for menial labor.  If illegals weren't doing it then people would have to pay more to get people to do it.  I'm not complaining but just making an observation.

I know Mexicans and Cubans working here that are illegal. Great workers and better men. Most of them would do anything to help just about anyone.  One Mexican friend has been deported at least twice that I know of but he always comes back.

I tell this story only to show that I have intimate knowledge of several people in this situation.  The Americano Mexicans and Cubans are usually the bosses as they have been here a while or were born here and can speak English very well.  Most will tell you that they will not hire others who are from here or who have been here a long time. They want new illegals.  They complain they become Americanized and lazy after a while and want more money to work less. 

My question is this ... is this racist on their part?

Uhmm... this is the exact same bogus argument communists and socialists use. That there is only a fixed, finite amount of work (and wealth, and ...) and that it should therefore be divided "fairly" among everyone.

Of course, that's not the case at all. It's simply not a zero-sum game. In macroscopic economic terms, there is no such concept as "taking someone's job". It might feel like it - or even BE so - at the local level, for one specific job, for two specific people (the one who gets it and the one who doesn't), but in terms of the economy as a whole, the "taking/stealing jobs" argument has no more merit that when the communists / socialists parade it.

It is a supply and demand problem. Employers will always try to maximize profits, even to the detriment of their own workers. Whic is why Adam Smith said there has to be some government regulation on businesses to protect workers.
People hire illegals to get around paying a fair wage, health insurance, taxes, etc. You really want to stop the problem, then target the people who benefit the most by it. If you were to go after businesses with sanctions and penalties similiar to the drug forfeiture laws, the demand for illegal workers would dry up quickly.
The are many jobs that paid good wages when I was coming out of high school that have become unwanted because you make less than half what you used to due to the influx of cheap immigrant labor.

We don't have more available jobs just because we have workers to do them.  That's rediculous.  I'm not against women working at all but the truth is the truth. My wife makes over 50% more than I do and has for the last 4 years. I'm grateful for her income.

We do not have endless abound of work. More workers means less pay.  In fact, I know of several people making a little more than half of their salary that they were making on their last job only because the market is now flooded with quality out of work people. Double the available workers and the wages will always drop.

The illegals are a huge problem here in AZ being as we border with Mexico. They are cracking down on the people who employee these individuals but in the long run it is really not doing much. I have no issues with people coming here for a better opportunity I really don't as long as they do it legally. I think we should speed up the process to become a citizen though, I think that would help....I could be wrong. These people need to pay taxes like the rest of us. I don't care what language they speak but they should be required to speak English in the workplace. If they want to speak their native language all other times I am ok with that. It creates a huge language barrier in the workplace. I have a hard time communicating with half the people I work with. I also have issue when I sit in the ER for 14 hours while I pay taxes and have health insurance to sit behind a ton of people who do not. They are also driving down the cost of labor in the construction industry here. I have many friends and family members who lose out on jobs and higher wages due to the illegals (who work their asses off for next to nothing) taking these jobs for much less than standard costs. I think all of the candidates in the election have completely missed the boat on the immigration issue but they are going to say whatever needs to be said to get them votes.

Just my two cents.

CF, I think you're forgetting one part of the equation.  You're only increasing the number of workers, but you're failing to account for the increase in work needed because there are more people to service.

Also, the cheap labor (which is unattainable from American workers) allows businesses to save money and create more jobs in other areas.

To say that more workers = lower employment is a gross oversimplification, especially since immigrants require less pay.

^^^ Agree completely.