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The big news is that China is being accused of cheating, and putting in girls on the Olympic team that are below the age limit.  The IOC is compiling evidence now.

What do you think?

whether there are or aren't, I don't think they should take the kid's medal.  She won it fair and square regardless of her age.

If they can prove they are underage (five of the six are being investigated), they should take their medals.  The girls were in on it too if they lied about their ages.  It is not winning fair and square if the rules were not followed.

If she's underage, ABSOLUTELY they should take her medal.

That's not even a question.  Those medals belong to the country as much as the individual.  China cannot blatantly cheat, nor should children be rewarded for cheating either.  What message does that send?

if they're the best in the world what does it matter, regardless of their age?  Do gymnasts have an advantage gained by being 2 years younger than the other girl?

Yes, that is why the rules were put into place.  It was worry over what that type of stress would do to such a young person.

If they are underage, their medals should be taken and the Chinese gymnastics team should be banned from future Olympic competitions for a certain period of time, if not for life.  Additionally, China should never be allowed to host Olympic games again if they have done this.  If these girls are proven to be underage, it was a blatant disregard for the rules.   

So, great, let's add more stress and mental anguish over being stripped of an Olympic medal...

That what you get if you disregard the rules.  I will restate if they were lying about their ages, the girls had to be in on it too, so they knew they were cheating.  So any stress or mental anguish they would suffer would be because of their own actions.

not really.  I'm sure they were recruited by the Chinese government and told to compete, and if they didn't they (or their family) would be imprisoned, etc.  So, after being removed from their parents and training for over a year, they went out and performed as they were asked, and it turns out that they were better than anyone else in the world.  They did what their government told them to do, so who's more at fault, the little girl or the Chinese government?

(For the record, I'm not advocating that the alleged "cheating" by the Chinese gymnasts is acceptable.  I'm merely stating that the punishment should be applied to the offending party, the people responsible (the Chinese government) and not to the individual gymnasts.)

Absolutely.  A matured female body is not capable of doing things that an underdeveloped body is.  That's why the rules are in place.

People get their medals taken away every year, for a variety of violations, and sometimes, probably by accident (testing for banned substances found in cold medicine or whatever...)  The Olympics is serious business.

I do, personally, think they're underage.  A bunch of info was found recently, where these girls signed up for tournaments as 13/14 year olds.  Unless that's just a huge type and coincidence, I imagine that it's probably cheating.  China will be extremely shamed if this is proved true.

I understand why you might want to let the girl keep the medal.......she did win it after all.  But you can't have rules and then ignore them.   The medals need to be taken and the Chinese gymnastics team needs to be harshly punished.   No other country was allowed to compete with gymnasts under the age of 16.  

I think it may be difficult to prove the girls are underage.   They all have valid government documentation that shows them being 16 this year.  This includes government issued passports.  If they are able to prove the girls are underage, then it also proves Chinese officials falsified documents with the knowlegde of the gymnastics team, the girls and their families.  

Prove it, and I don't have much sympathy for the girls or anyone else involved.  By the way, this isn't the first time China has been caught doing this.  

That's just it - I'm sure the girls didn't ask to participate un-lawfully.  I'm sure they were told to do it by their government.  Its not the girls' fault.

Its also not a matter of opinion.  Like Dave says "I think they're underage" - either they are or they aren't.  until someone proves they are underage, you have to assume they are not.

Cheating bastards.

Brian does have a point.  With a Communist government, you do as you're told or face stiff consequences.  Maybe these girls did lie about their age, but maybe, like Brian said, they did it under intimidation and threats of incarceration from their government. 

It matters because rules are rules, and sportsmanship is sportsmanship. What will happen to your favorite college team if one of their players had grades changed so that they could play in the big game, or if their star was given a Lexus by some pro scout, or agent? Cheating is cheating.

I don't think there is any doubt about the government having a hand in this, but that doesn't mean anything.

Exactly. It's not like we are asking to throw these girls in jail. Strip their medals, if this is true. Just because you feel for the girls situation shouldn't lead to circumventing the rules that everyone had to follow. If there is a problem with this, maybe people might not be asking the right questions. Like why should a age limit be placed on this? If we are looking for the best, why should they eliminate the younger girls. That's literally no different than setting the age limit at 30 so that middle aged women could participate.

It was stated before that the age rule was put in place because they were worried about the permanent damage that could occur to a young person's body trying to compete at this level.

  China bending to rules?  Say it ain't so.   Say it ain't so.

What is this world coming to.  I guess next they are going to be telling us that the food from them is tainted.  It just can't be so.

You cheat, you lose your metals. These girls have to know this is being questioned by everyone and their uncle (and has been for 2 weeks now!) Rules are rules, they have to turn 16 in the calendar year in which the Olympics are held. Period, end of story

Of course, if you can't prove that they're underage, they get to keep the medals.  I agree with Brian (and I think everyone does) on that point.

But, if they can prove cheating, which will be difficult, but it appears that some evidence does exist, it should be interesting.

Personally,  I hope they get caught and China is shamed.

Brian is right in all of his arguments.It's not like they have a choice over there and they won the medals proving that they are the best in the world at what they do.I say let 'em keep their medals.

There's no way.

The Olympics have a lot of political statements, and China is the world symbol for Communist might.  There is very much a pissing contest between the US and China, in terms of medal counts, and the like, and it makes statements about the discipline and the success of their people and political system.  It's not just about the individuals.   (Think of what the USA/Russia hockey game meant...way more than just a hockey game.)

If it's found out that those girls cheated, even if it was unknowingly, their medals SHOULD be stripped, and WILL be stripped.  The Olympics are strict and don't screw around with cheating.  This wouldn't be the first time medals were taking for a violation, and it certainly won't be the last.

And, their breaking the rules gave them a distinct advantage that other girls didn't have.  By not taking the medals away from the Chinese, you're robbing the silver medalists of what they earned.

Its very simple. Strip the medals, and move the girls and their families to the US under asylum. There is no doubt in my mind that the communist government there had a hand in this. Have your daughter compete or else.

I'm not mad at the girls, or the coaches. But, what do I know. If it was a government issue, it will go away soon. If not, the coaches will be nailed to a cross.

Still, I think the girls and their families should be granted immediate asylum in the US.

^^

I think you have a very Western view of the situation.  China isn't like that.  They are all about honor.  ....at any cost.  They would gladly lie to make their country look better.  Shame/Honor plays a huge role in their society.

When things happen there that are disastrous, like a mine collapse or something, they don't talk about.  The families of the dead don't call out for answers.  It's quiet, because these failures are shameful to their society.  This is the same kind of thing.

I don't think anything will come of this, but I would be really surprised is they were of age.  Cheating in the Olympics, especially by host nations, is not uncommon, unfortunately, and there are many, many cases of fixed judges and other cover-ups.

They need to get caught and made an example of, so this stuff doesn't keep happening.

I remember a winter olympic athlete who was stipped of a medal after testing positive on a drug test because of cough medicine the team doc gave her - she didn't know she couldn't have it. I find this to be a similar circumstance

And I heard too that the younger they are they are more flexible- and less afraid to take risks. They are def. underage and their medals need to be stripped. But since it was the Chinese gov't that doctored the documents I doubt we will be able to prove they are underage.

Did anyone else notice how the announcers majorly disagreed with the scores the Americans and Chinese were getting? The Americans not high enough, the Chinese too high. (Except in team comp. Alicia did enough to kick us to 2nd place) Does anyone else think something was going on there too?

I'm not really one for conspiracy theories and sour grapes, but in this particular case, we thought they were underage, and upon research, we found documents (now destroyed) that say they are, in fact, 14.

Yes, these documents could be in error.  But when you go looking for discrepancies, based on suspicion, and you find documents that verify that suspicion, that'd be a huge coincidence if it were just a type-o.

How many Lombardi trophies did they take away from the Patriots when they were caught violating the rules?

And don't you dare try to tell me "but that's different" cause its not.

Brian ... have you watched the Olypics? They have DQd several runners for stepping on a freaking line. I think for falsifying documents losing a medal is minimal.

i have and i think that's stupid as well.

If the IOC ran the NFL, the Patriots probably would have been stripped of their wins as well.

not really, the IOC is such a corrupt organization, it's amazing they even grew the balls to "investigate" china for this.  even tho it's been already proven these girls are underage, i'd bet the farm that it's just a mock investigation to quiet the public and nothing will come of it.

I was wondering how long this thread would stay on topic, before someone changed the subject to the Patriots. 

^ I was not the first one to mention them.

Yeah i brought it up as a counter point to support my argument.  Not to bash the Patriots.

I'm not sure I agree with snatching medals from 14 year old girls who were likely 'encouraged' to compete knowing that the very existance of their families could be hanging in the balance.  "Rules are rules" doesn't really apply when you're 14 and your family is at risk.

Conversely, China shouldn't be allowed to get away with this either. 

Add in the peculiar scoring and do the girls even deserve the medals?  The balance beam is one example (even though bronze "winner" Fei Cheng isn't one of the suspected underage competitors).  Anna Pavlova did not appear to wobble nearly as much yet was scored 5/100 of a point lower.

The scoring for the Chinese was way inflated. A vaulter fell and still managed the bronze

^ Fell on her ass and still got the bronze.  That still pisses me off.

No kidding. It was pathetic to see the home country favoritism (or US hate, take your pick)

Why? The lanes are set up with specific distances and when you cut a curve short you lessen the distance. You have to have a line to set a boundary or each runner would just cut across lanes. I know it is a bit heartbreaking, but it part of the beauty of the sport as well. Would anyone belive a relay team should be allowed to drop the baton, but just keep running without it?

Besides, the Patriots situation is COMPLETELY different.  First off, the violations came to light several YEARS later.  But more importantly, this isn't the NFL, it's the Olympics, and the social, economic, and political standing of entire nations are at stake.

Group A breaks Rule A of Competition A and Punishment A for breaking Rule A is to have Reward A for Competition A revoked.

its your own formula.  Consistency.

The Olympics disqualify competitors for every technical violation.  If the IOC ran football encroaching the neutral zone would result in forfeiting the game.  Just as stepping on the white line in a footrace results in you losing the race. 

The NFL does not reverse that results of games.  In games the standard punishment for breaking the rules is yardage, loss of downs or the other team getting a first down.

Other rule violations typically result in fines but other measures such as loss of draft picks among others are used.   

For example the Dolphins lost a draft pick because of tampering involving Don Shula.   The Patriots received an overly harsh punishment relative to the rule broken, within the framework of NFL punishments.  But the NFL does not work like the IOC otherwise the Miami Dolphins would have had to forfeit a season too. 

 

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What would an app like that accomplish?  What is it's real world usage?

Scroll up to the top of the page for it's one, and only, real world usage.

I was uploading photos to scrapbookphotos.com and they're loading ap is what did it.... it isn't on purpose (not that I know of) and only happens in forums (Word worked normal)

It was a strange thing

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