The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

(http://img524.imageshack.us/img524/1113/6873504039standaloneprokr3.jpg)


Is it the 37 year old or the 16 year old? 

The 16 doesn't look pregnant, and pretty tough to tell on the 37.

What's the gag?

Even if she was.........that would just make her the VP nominee with the most realistic family ever.

The gag is that Palin never looked pregnant with her 5th child. 

The gag is that her 16 year old daughter did.

The gag is her daughter missed a couple of months of school with mono.

The gag is that Sarah was in Texas and 8 months pregnant she began leaking embroytic fluid and instead of going the hospital she took an 8 flight to Alaska.

The gag is that upon arriving in Ankridge she drove past a hospital that specializes in premature babies and drove 45 mins to a small medical clinic in her home town.

The gag is she isn't the babies mom....she is the grandmother. 

The Senate had a trial because a President lied about having sex.  We shouldn't elect a vice president that used her power as governor to have state documents that are fraudulent. 

I like stuff like this. Don't worry, fat-faced McCain and hot GILF won't make it.

Interesting.

I foresee accusations of a huge right-wing conspiracy when/if this version is vetted and dismissed by the media.

The daughter doesn't look pregnant and there is no way to tell whether Sara Palin is pregnant because she is wearing a vest and also partially obscured by the younger daughter. Do you know when the picture was taken? Palin's office couldn't even keep the fairly tame account of her trying to get her former brother-in-law fired by the state PD out of the news. What makes you think they could keep a fake pregnancy under wraps for so long? I don't plan to vote for McCain and Palin, but I find this post to be mean spirited and unsupported by any real evidence. 

If you're going to make this kind of claim, you should provide better support.

In other words, business as usual.

Wow Hoodie, this is pretty desperate.

Don't be so sure. I said it once and I'll say it again, This country is not ready for an African American President. Its sad and I'm not for either side yet........but don't get your heart set on it bro.  Obama has a serious uphill road to climb. All McCain has to do is shake the ghost of GW Bush.  Obama can't change the color of his skin. That's the sad sad truth.  :|

http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-69834

I don't understand the point of this point?

Who gives a crap if she looks pregnant?

The point is the Governor of Alaska may have participated in a scheme to produce a fraudulent state document (birth certificate) for her own personal ends.     

That's a pretty bold accusation.  Faking a pregnancy and birth certificate.

Sounds like bullshit to me.  Good luck with that, though.

I don't like her, because I don't agree with her politics, but I'm not much of a conspiracy guy.  If evidence comes up, though...that'd be one of the craziest political stories in history.

I am not 100% convinced myself yet either. But it seem more than plausible if you read the entire story.   

This is written by one blogger...there's no legitimacy to it at all.  Even if it's true (which I'm guessing it's not), wait for more investigation.

This is a fringe, conspiracy-theory whack-job.

Just a thought...You might consider laying out the backstory at the same time as the picture, rather than as a response to the first "wtf is this?" that the unexplained photo elicited.

I wanted to get people's opinions on who looked pregnant first. 

To you, maybe.   ;) 

Our resident whack-job introduced a whack-job conspiracy theory?  Say it isn't so!  :o

I love conspiracy theorists. Do you also believe we didn't land on the moon? Do the Masons control the world? Was 9/11 an inside job?

Do you also believe we didn't land on the moon?

i believe we went to the moon

Do the Masons control the world?

no, just the concrete & brick industry  (think about it)

 Was 9/11 an inside job?

no, although I do feel the bush administration failed to act responsibly to prevent it and then cover up their incompetence.

Someone on this board has evidence to the contrary.

Damned straight...

Looks like the kid is pregnant (as in currently). She was knocked up by her boyfriend.

http://news.aol.com/elections/conventions/republicans/article/palin-says-daughter-17-is-pregnant/155019?icid=100214839x1208346735x1200493570

Interesting.

Like mother, like daughter. 

Whoa... This is HUGE. This woman opposes not only abortion, but birth control too. She is a member of Feminists for Life.  This could get interesting.

Well, you should always try to be early whenever possible, so...

Congratulations, President Obama. Please try not to fukk things up any more than they already are.

For me who is screwing who is largely a non-issue.

But can anybody with a straight face claim that if the democratic presidential nominee had a wife only 3 years older than his son and if the democratic vice presidential nominee had gotten pregnant and eloped and then her teenage daughter followed suit that we would not be hearing nonstop on Fox and Rush how the democrats have no moral values and that this lack of moral values is what is causing a decay of America. 

I don't really think it's a big deal.  But then again, I'm not the kind of guy who's bothered by that.  I'm not going to judge a lady's political credentials because her daughter got knocked up.

My family has an ultra-conservative wing, and they pretty much all had sons or daughters out of wedlock or were involved in other morally questionable shenanigans.  I imagine it isn't that uncommon, and doubt that the conservatives who like Palin will hold this against her too much.

These stories are all bullshit. Do the math. Palin did not get pregnant in high school. Her oldest son is 19 and she is 44. She would have to be one of the oldest high schoolers ever. Her daughter also cannot be Trig's mom because the kid is only 4 months old and the daughter is 5 months pregnant now.

Your right, I read it too quickly, she eloped to her high school sweet heart, she was not in high school.   

All the skeletons of their family are surfacing.   Palin's husband had a DWI many, many years ago.  (Again, I don't care, but it hurts the "family values" image.)

The thing about Palin's daughter being pregnant that looks so bad, is Palin's stance on the matter, specifically teaching abstinence only in school, and specifically not teaching contraception in sex-ed.  Not that it makes her look like a hypocrite or anything like that, but it does make her methods look ineffective.

Why do we spend so much time trashing the candidates we don't like instead of extolling the virtues of the candidates we do like?  It demeans us all.

I'd hate to tell this to the staunch Republicans on this board, but with this news on Palin's daughter, it looks like McCain just shot himself in the foot. 

I don't see that as a big issue.  But where she could have a Duckais moment is she is on record saying as recently as two years ago that if her daughter was pregnant, even if the pregnancy was the result of rape she would not allow her daughter to have an abortion. 

Now she claims that the decision to keep the baby was Bristol's.

What is it mom? 

Did you say to her, "it is your choice we will support you and love you either way. " Or did you tell her, "if you want to catch the bus the the abortion clinic you can, but pack a suitcase cause you ain't sleeping here anymore."

If it was the former you aren't the pro-lifer you claim to be.  If it is the latter you are fucking monster. 

^^

The reason I don't see that as a big deal, is because you're not going to vote for McCain/Palin anyway.  And single-issue hardcore pro-lifers are going to vote for McCain/Palin either way.  Ultimately, her daughter is keeping the baby, so the rest doesn't really matter.

It's the middle's reaction that matters.

This is a non issue that people are desperate to turn into an issue.

 A 17 Yr. old girl had sex.  I'm shocked.

Now, had she had an abortion then its might become a larger issue, but in the end.  Its her daughters choice to have sex & what she wants to do with it.  A mom can only support her daughters decision..

I'm still looking for the issue and importance in this.

The is definitely an issue, if only for the fact that it's a huge distraction.  The one thing that the VP is supposed to do is not cause any damage.  On every news channel, the big story goes back and forth between the hurricane and Palin's daughter.  It doesn't matter, sure, but it takes the McCain camp off message.

I love how the Democrats cry foul when someone uses something his wife says on the campaign trail. They say "LEAVE OBAMA'S FAMILY OUT OF THIS!!!"

Lets see some of the adjectives I heard used by Alan Colmes, Chris Wallace, and others for daring to criticize Michelle Obama..I think I recall hearing 'dispicable human beings' for one.

These same people who act like its the end of the world when we criticize Michelle Obama have done the exact same thing (or worse) to Palin's daughter.

The reason I say its worse is because she is just a teenager, who is not and will not be campaigning like Michelle Obama is.

I don't think her daughter's pregnancy is predictive of her job performance, however, I wouldn't mind if it brings some focus on the stupidity of abstenence only sex ed.

I think it's a non issue personally,But I do feel like It shows a lack of due diligence by the McCain camp...It reflects poorly on his decision making ability...Less than a week after you annnounce your VP Nominee,Her Daughter is 5 months pregnant? Do you really want give your oppnant something else to attack,You're old,and you bring in someone risky with an extra target .. ???

Oops We dropped that bomb on someone because we were told there were Terrorists there...Our Bad...

This is nothing & will be an afterthought in a matter of days.  Can anyone recall the big stories from March? 

Nope.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/obama-to-media.html

Obama to Media, Politicos on Palin Pregnancy Story: 'Back Off!'

September 01, 2008 2:28 PM

At a brief press availability in Monroe, Mich., ABC News asked Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., if he had any response to Gov. Sarah Palin's statement that her unmarried 17-year-old daughter Bristol is pregnant.

"Let me be a clear as possible:  I have said before and I will repeat again, I think people's families are off limits," Obama said, "and people's children are especially off limits.

"This shouldn't be part of our politics," he continued, "It has no relevance to Gov. Palin's performance as governor, or her potential performance as a vice president.

"And so I would strongly urge people to back off these kinds of stories," he said. "You know my mother had me when she was 18, and how a family deals with issues and, you know, teenage children, that shouldn't be the topic of our politics and I hope that anybody who is supporting me understands that's off limits."

Asked about the insinuation from the McCain campaign that the liberal bloggers trafficking in rumors about Palin write for websites that mention Obama, the senator said, "I'm offended by that."

The Democratic presidential nominee said, "There is no evidence at all that any of this involved us. I hope I am as clear as can be – so in case I’m not, let me repeat: We don't go after people's families, we don't get them involved in the politics. It's not appropriate and it's not relevant."

Concluded Obama before getting on his campaign bus headed to Milwaukee, Wisc., "Our people were not involved in any way in this and they will not be. And if I ever thought that it was somebody in my campaign that was involved in something like that, they'd be fired."

I'd be surprised if the McCain camp was unaware of this.  Besides, its not like this is some type of horrible news.

I'd say they wanted the Dems to use this as an attack.  It keeps their attention away from other items.  Think about.  Get their attention on this instead of that.

Plus, attacking the kids of someone is not a smart move.
 
 

Your first paragraph was about McCain and then your second was apparently about Clinton?  I don't get the connection.  ???

That's class and leadership.  Now let's see if the masses follow.

Amy Carter and Chelsey Clinton's looks were routinely mocked.  The Bush girls have been drug through the mud quite a bit.  None had any say about growing up in the public eye.

This could the first real evidence of the change Obama has been promising.

Bad attempt at a joke... :-[


It's good point...I do see it as a problem with the same stupid people that still don't get Obama isn't a Muslim...

This seems like a very classy thing to say. Now I would have to say I'd be very surprised if his people hadn't originally started this story up and now wants to seem like the moral person in this story by saying leave them alone. So in the end prob. not so classy...

I don't really think that this is too much of a deal. Not that she should condone this in any way but what is she going to do? I went to a Catholic school for my whole life, and there were plenty of girls who went to school pregnant. It happens. Kids have sex. And for Bristol I was wondering if maybe since her mom does seem to be religious if she was scared to even ask for birth control. Someone said on here that Palin doesn't believe in birth control  but maybe she would have rather her daughter take birth control than be a teen mom. So maybe she didn't know she was having sex.

Not a joke - the scenario that you fear under McCain actually happened under Clinton and for the most part the American people got over it relatively quickly.  People seemed to question the timing of it due to the Lewinsky scandal more than the action itself.

I don't think we should jump to that conclusion.

For example, the ad focusing on the association between Obama and Ayers (link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m89m0pC_bpY)) was not authorized by any candidate or campaign committee.  Should we believe that McCain secretly okayed it behind the scenes or that the "American Issues Project" was acting independently? 

You are inaccurate.

Obama's people didn't start this story.  Give the man some credit, where it's due.

We really don't know this and Obama has said that he prefers to keep the children out of the election process. We don't know this, so I wouldn't jump to conclusions.


This is where I have a HUGE problem. This woman doesn't want ANYONE on birth control. Period. Not you. Not me. Not the lady next door. It's easy for her to say that her daughter did the right thing. Her daughter has a lot more resources than the average teen that gets pregnant. She's got this family with tons of money, etc so this isn't the end of the world for her. (Though I do think it's dispicable that she's getting married. Shotgun teem marriage solves everything.)

The bigger problem I see with this entire situation is this woman's lack of judgement. Did she not think that this was going to come up. She's basically throwing her teen daughter t othe wolves on this. A rational woman that knows that her child is pregnanat and could face the scrutiny of the American public and still accepts the VP nomination is not concerned with family or anything else. I would feel this for both males and females.

I also have to question rather the McCain camp knew about the pregnancy. If they did, what the hell were they thinking? If the didn't, that once again calls into question the decision making process of Palin.

I have a hard time believing that this woman is capable of running a country. Period. She is a soccer mom that needs to go back to what she does best. Breeding, shooting things, and being a religious zealot.

I give mad props to Obama.  He seemed very genuine and convincing. I would take him at his word.

McCain's crew knew of the baby and the fact her husband was arrested for DUI over 20 years ago. I'm guessing that is pretty much covered in the intial interview.  While the kid thing isn't probably something you want on your resume', it is in fact a part of life in a lot of families.  Every family deals with it the best they can whether they have money or religion. Just because a family member makes a misstake you don't turn your back on them and this is exactly where I see Palin on this issue. She doesn't condone it but feels compelled to make the best of it as that's all you can do. 

 Personally, coming from a family where some are on welfare ... or at least have been at some time in their life, I know how important it is for the family to help out.  Fortunately for a church member that 'family" includes the church. If it doesn't then obviously you are in the wrong church.

The church is for sinners and that is why they are there.  If you aren't a sinner then obvioulsy you don't need Jesus to pay for your sins. Of course there are no such thing but some people would like to think so. 

I'm curious about the birth control thing that keeps getting thrown around.  Where did everyone get their info that she is against birth control? It seems to me that because she teaches abstinence people feel that she is against birth control. Those are certainly two very different issues.

I guess this is what Obama meant when he said "If my daughters make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby." And, you can see his point...No one expects to get pregnant as a result of sex. How dare Palins daughter and the father of the kid take responsibility for their actions by getting married.

CF, Palin is a member of Feminists for Life. Members of Feminists for Life are both anti-choice and don't believe in birth control. If you thoroughly study their site and read some of the interviews, that is understood. If Palin doesn't oppose birth control, she needs to distance herself from this group.

"Punished with a baby" is such a poor choice of words.  

"Mistake" is also for a couple of reasons.  The act that can result in a baby is deliberate.  Mistake is somewhat accidental or unintentional.  I understand, "Oops I got pregnant."  I don't understand, "Oops I had intercourse."  

Does one have to be male to be considered a male-chauvinist pig?   :P

Curious you left off Mayor and Governor.  Did you realize she has an 80% approval rating?  Here comes a condescending remark about Alaska.

Anyhoo, there's nothing like a bit of left-wing "tolerance" first thing in the morning.

I am far from a male-chauvinist pig. I'm as pro woman as possible. However,  I have little to no tolerance for breeders though and really dislike the whole "soccer/hockey mom" culture. Those women have nothing to do with how I live my life.

 80% approval rating? Who cares? I'm sure that most Alaskans are just happy to see a woman. Period.
(And...yes. I did see your text there.) I dated a guy from Alaska. He was as backwards as you can get.

Feminists for Life
Log Cabin Republicans
Catholics for choice
Jews for Jesus
The Dolphin fans, Tom Brady fan club.

All of these organization make equally no sense. 

If I was 1% as intolerant and judgemental as you then you'd be throwing out more -ism accusations.

Have you ever considered that maybe it's not EVERYONE else?

I checked out Feminists for Life and found nothing to indicate they were against birth control. I found some blogs and articles written against them that said it but nothing to indicate it on their actual web site.  If I missed somthing feel free to forward it. 

From their mission statement and subsequent pages all I can tell is they are for women fulfilling their education and careers while still choosing to have children. They are obviously pro-life and discourage aborting babies just to advance oneself (they provide resources for help) but in no way did I see them even hint that their mission was to eradicate birth control.   

In the end if I disagree with her on this one point I don't know that it would matter.  I can find issues with pretty much anyone who didn't die on the cross and rise three days later.   

Wow Let's compound one problem with another Problem...Having a kid,shouldn't be the reason to get married...

They completely dance around the issue. From their FAQs:

Feminists for Life's mission is to address the unmet needs of women who are pregnant or parenting. Preconception issues including abstinence and contraception are outside of our mission. Some FFL members and supporters support the use of non-abortifacient contraception while others oppose contraception for a variety of reasons. FFL is concerned that certain forms of contraception have had adverse health effects on women.

Our membership enjoys a broad spectrum of opinion that reflects the diversity of opinions among the American public.

In the time of the early American feminists, sex between married couples was not always consensual. Many women bore 20 or more children, of whom only half survived. In order to affirm women’s rights within marriage, most feminist foremothers promoted “voluntary motherhood,” whereby women would have the education and right to fully participate in the decision to have sexual relations. FFL likewise supports life planning by focusing on one's education and career plans coupled with mentoring and empowering programs for teens.

(For more information on “voluntary motherhood” in the writings of early American feminists, please see Prolife Feminism Yesterday & Today edited by Mary Krane Derr, Rachel MacNair, and Linda Naranjo-Huebl.)

I read that as them not wanting birth control. Especially after reading through other items on their site.

As I read that paragraph they are saying they don't have a stance on contraception, but they do have some concerns that some might have adverse health effects.

For example there are known risks regarding the pill.

Not every organization takes a stance on everything. 

For example the ACLU won't touch the 2nd amendment (pro-gun control or against).  It is outside their scope.     

Please don't tell me this. I just got outta the hospital for blood clots on my lungs that the doctors think were, indeed, caused by The Pill. A very, very small percentage of women will face these risks. That doesn't mean it needs to be banned. I knew the risk when I went on The Pill and decided being child free was worth that risk.

I think they are hiding their stance on this one. Burying it beneath their "pro woman" vitriol.

I almost NEVER listen to Sean Hannity but happened to stop on him as I was driving home.  He said that she is not against contraception.    I don't know how the organization officially stands or how Sean knows her view point but it is what he was saying during his little tirade. 

I don't think that they are hiding their stance on it at all.  They simply state that it is beyond their mission.  Just digging around the internet on them - and not knowing anything about them before this - it looks to me like their mission is to help women/girls who are ALREADY pregnant.  They want to help them find ways for the child to be born and for the woman to be able to continue with her goals.  It seems like they target the typical demographic for abortions and offer them support and options.   I don't really understand how this makes them anti-contraceptive.

I still see it as being anti birth control. They never say they are only concerned with pregnant women. I htink they are being shady in their stance on this.

Buddha: Please define "breeders" for me. I'm not sure what you mean.

Obama got it right.  And I was one of the ones he was scolding....

Did Sarah?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=AKkydrUnBZE

listen to how she scold the host for his calling a a cancer surviver a cancer and a bitch and his implying he wishes she dies thru giggling. 

A breeder is generally anyone (male or female) that insists on having tons of children. They generally feel that is the only way to live life and question those that don't want children, etc. This doesn't mean that all couples that have children are breeders. There's an entire mentality to it. The goal for most people are to be PNB.  Which stands for "parents not breeders". Parents I'm fine with. Breeders...not so much.  This is generally used in both the GLBT communities and the childfree communities.

A perfect example of a  breeder:  http://www.duggarfamily.com/ (http://www.duggarfamily.com/)

It sounded like nervous laughter to me, but does it really matter?  Maybe she really thinks Green is a bitch.  She's entitled to an opinion just like you are.  I noticed that this story has been posted a million times in the last week, but I failed to find one from January when it actually happened.  That's because nobody thought it was a big deal until she was nominated for VP. 

I didn't say that they were only concerned with pregnant women either, I said women who were already pregnant - meaning either pregnant women or current mothers.   I got that from the FAQ section that you posted -"Feminists for Life's mission is to address the unmet needs of women who are pregnant or parenting." 

And for the other thing - "Preconception issues including abstinence and contraception are outside of our mission. " That menas that they as an organization do not have a stance on it.  There's no more to read into that statement. 

You said that there were articles on their website that lead you to believe that they were anti-birth control.  Could you link to those for me?  I would really like to read them, but I am unable to find anything that makes me think that they are anti-birth control.

Well nobody outside of Alaska cared about until she was nominated for VP.  In the state where she was governor it was an issue when it happened. 

http://www.adn.com/opinion/story/295464.html

Thanks, Hoodie, that is exactly what I was looking for.

I'm not saying that I think what she did was classy, and I'm not saying that I like her as a VP pick.  Quite honestly, I know very little about her.  I just think that when elections come around, you get the appalling half of the story, and that's it.  I definitely think that she could have handled it better, but I read some of the stuff that Green said about her, and I would have called her a bitch myself! 

I already showed you what I found that makes me think they are anti birth control. Stating that they are for non-abortificant birth control pills makes them against any form of The Pill. Pro-lifers generally consider any sort of hormonal contraception, etc as an abortificant means of bc.

This is the line I refer to:  Some FFL members and supporters support the use of non-abortifacient contraception while others oppose contraception for a variety of reasons.

Reading further in their site all they do is talk about how bad birth control is for the body. They're dancing around the issue here.

With that said, I honestly don't care. Palin would NEVER get my vote in a millions years due to the fact that she is Anti-Choice. I don't care what group or organization she belongs to.

(http://209.85.117.199/1250/23/0/e876//e876.gif)
Getting married is a "problem"?

What if this marriage turns into a "til death do us part" marriage like the majority of first time marriages?  

Ideally the order is love, marriage, sex, kids.  As long as love is involved early on is the order so important?

You welcome. 

Actually i don't think the calling her a bitch was the biggest issue.  Maybe she is.  I have more problem vocally wishing that the seat of someone who has cancer become vacant or calling someone who has cancer a cancer.  For me that is what Palin should have objected to. 

The thing is nobody knows much about her.  The media has been digging thru Obama, Biden and McCain's life for quite some time now. There has been ziltch it the way of scrutiny on Palin until a couple of days ago.  So we are going to hear about things she did 10 years ago that I wouldn't give too hoots about 10 years ago, but now she is running for VP it is relevant.   


 

  This doesn't mean that they as a group are against it. 

Birth control IS bad for the body.  Everyone knows that, it doesn't make them anti-contraceptive.

Finally!  You could have just said that from the start, the conversation would have been much shorter!

I had to give this another listen.  I didn't take it as him talking about her dying when he was saying that if her seat was empty, but I guess it could probably be taken that way.   It's not cool, and she probably should have interjected, but I can understand how it was possible that she was taken off guard, too.   

There's a story on Drudge saying that Alaska Democrats released Palin's phone number, addreses, and social security number. However, the link takes you to a blog, with a link to a PDF. The PDF has been removed from the website.  IF this is true, what do you think should be done about it, and IF it is true, do you think the mainstream media will blow this open, or sit on it?

I thought about starting a thread about this, but decided to post it here. For now, its just a blog. One good blog deserves another maybe.

But, IF its true, I seriously doubt the media will touch it. IF it is true, I think Palin should press charges to the fullest extent of the law...

...IF it is true.

^^^ It doesn't appear the link to the story is active at all now. Not sure what to think about that.

The drudge report links to a blog called "redstate" hmm I wonder if that website has an agenda that links to nothing.....

But if you would like Palin, Todd & Sarah's phone number in Wasilla, AK 99654 it is 907-373-3113.  I got it off of anywho.com.  I wouldn't bother calling this week though the family is in MN attending some sort of convention. 

For $49.99 I could get

    * Statewide Criminal Check
    * Bankruptcies & Liens
    * Address History
    * Neighbors
    * Neighborhood Info
    * Alias Names

    * Sex Offender Check
    * Small Claims & Judgements
    * Relatives & Associates
    * Home Value & Details
    * Satellite & Map Images
    * Much More...

Damn, you're a peice of shit. I think a call to the authorities to see if you've broken a law here could be in order. I'm sure its against the terms of service for the board. Posting anyone's phone number on a message board without their permission is pretty low.

I may have broken a rule of TDMMC.  I did not break the law.  It is not an unlisted number and even if it was it would not be against the law.

My point is her address and phone number is in the phone book.   As are her in-laws.

All you need to do is go to anywho.com and type in palin and the state she lives in. 

I bet I could get Levi Johnson's phone number the same way. 

You could pick up a phone book too. Whether or not its illegal is irrelevant. I would never post Barack Obama's phone number or anyone else's out of respect for their privacy. This says alot about your character.

Anyway, back to the story...It has been completely removed from Drudge.

Surely nothing you didn't already know.

Hey Hoodie, just for fun ... what's your name and hometown?  It would be pretty hypocritical of you to have a problem posting your own personal information.

Speaking of links, where's your source for this post (link (http://www.thedolphinsmakemecry.com/forums/index.php?topic=11971.msg125796#msg125796))?

I posted it is in response 10. 

Ireport.com.  Sounds credible to me.  I especially like the "share your story" link.  There's nothing more honest than random people posting stories on the internet.

Now how about your information from anywho.com? 

anywho is an online phonebook run by AT&T.  You put type in name and address.  And it returns a phone number.   

The only two things I typed in was her last name and state.  Both of which have been reported in every media outlet nation wide. 

I am not running for vice president.  but feel free to type in MyGodWearsAHoodie and see if you get anything. 

Uhm...if you would've read any previous threads, you would know this already. I would NEVER vote Republican because they are anti-choice. Period. There are numerous other reasons, but that is a HUGE one.

I think she meant the fact that you kept trying to prove something that wasn't there as if that was the sticking point and not necessarily your overall view point.

Thank you CF, that is precisely what I meant. 

I still believe they're anti birth control. I'm not wavering on that.

Republicans are pro choice. They just choose life.  ;)

wow that is exactly what they are not .. if republicans were pro-choice .. they wouldn't have abortions and they would shut their traps about other people's business .. as it is .. they're not pro-choice .. they're pro-sticking-their-nose-in-some-other-womans-uterus

so republicans are pro-STNISOWU !

OMG, Fausto. The biggest "Word" ever on this one.

I think Frimp was being facetious.



However, in all seriousness, I've heard analysts on the 24 hour news channels talking about Palin and saying that Evangelicals are getting excited about her, partially because her daughter "made the pro life decision."

...and that pissed me off.  She made a decision to have a child, yes.  ...and good for her.  But that's not a pro-life decision.  By making the decision at all, it was a pro-choice decision.  Had she not been given the opportunity to make that decision, it would've been a pro-life decision.

I think that people equate wanting to keep a baby with being pro-life.  But they're not the same.

Lets also get real here. 

Mom is a pro-life governor.  Who two years ago said she would oppose her own daughter having an abortion even in the case of rape.  Alaska like most states require parental notification to get an abortion if you are 17 or under.   

I really doubt, it was a case of "Bristol, we will offer our love and support no matter what you choose."  Followed by Bristol freely choosing to keep the child because that is what her heart told her. 

She didn't have a choice.  I am not claiming Bristol would have had an abortion if she had a choice, but she didn't have a choice. 

^ I have to a agree with the above post.

i don't think she was forced to keep the kid .. you have a child and you indoctrinate your beliefs from an early age and i'm sure that her choice was to keep the baby .. not that it matters to me at all .. if she wants to chose to keep the kid .. more power to her ..

but whether or not her daughter is keeping the kid or not  isn't the focus of this whole episode from my standpoint...

how about instead of teaching your kid that abortion is a sin.. you teach her that getting knocked up at the age of 16 is worse .. what .. she can't keep it in her pants for a couple of years .. maybe until she finishes high school first

how's that abstinence only education working out for your daughter eh palin .. maybe if she had been taught how to properly use a condom she wouldn't have gotten knocked up

and if anyone wants to extrapolate the political remifications of her daughter being pregnant .. i'll save you the trouble:

if you can't even sell your own daughter on your sex education policy how do you expect to sell that same line of crap to the rest of the country?

That's as stupid as pointing to a kid who got pregnant and wasn't in an abstinence family and saying that teaching sex ed doesn't work.  Kids are freaking kids.  Most kids on both sides of the argument get through just fine without getting pregnant and or a sexual disease.  The truth is the number is continuing to climb as kids don't use protection.  I certainly know that I, as well as kids today, didn't actually stop because I didn't have a condom handy. I used some stupid method of pulling out or whatever other goofy method that would convince her she wouldn't get pregnant ... and then I prayed it didn't happen just like most people. (Talk about getting closer to God) 

Condoms are readily available to anyone who wants them. Handing out condoms guarantees nothing except that the person getting them will have it in the immediate future.  Who knows where that thing will be or even what condition it will be in in a week, a month, or a year when that person does decide to have sex? This doesn't count the multiple nights when one just won't do.

The bottom line is kids can be taught whatever by whoever but ultimately it is them making the decision.  That will never change. As a parent you hope they make the right choice but then you can't just abandon them when they don't.

Geez Fau, I've never seen you hostile before. 

Anyways, according to NPR yesterday there are fewer abortions on school-age mothers in districts that teach abstinence only than in districts that teach birth control.

i'm not hostile .. i just don't like the hypocrisy .. you can't glorify palin because her daughter "chose" to keep the baby as if that somehow translates into her giving her daughter good family values .. while on the other hand just ignoring the fact that "good values" means she shouldn't be having getting pregnant in the first place

WORD TO FAU.

This sounds like correlation, not causality.

I would imagine that abstinence-only education is taught in more conservative areas where there is also a strong pro-life community.  Did the report have anything to do with the number of pregnancies?

Also, I'd imagine that the kinds of towns that teach abstinence only vs. sex-ed are different socioeconomic groups, and that's just a lot of variables for which to control.

That makes total sense, but totally irrelevant.

Better question is what is the rate of teenage pregnancy. 

Communities that teach abstinence only do so because they are in very conservative areas where that is what the majority of parent/school board etc demand it.  Those same very conservatives parents are likely to pressure  their daughters into keeping the child or putting it up for adoption, instead of an abortion.

BTW I think BC  should be taught but there should be a heavy emphasis on abstinence being the best method.  Much heavier than it is now. 

One of the problems that I have with this whole debacle is that if this was an inner city girl that had far fewer resources, no one would be applauding that she kept her baby. They'd be yelling that she should have kept her legs closed. When it's an upper middle class family with lots of resources they are applauded for keeping the baby and no one acts like it's a big deal that this girl is pregnant at 17.

CF, there are more ways to prevent pregnancy then condoms. They could've had her on something that she wouldn't even have to think about. IUD, the shot, Nuvaring. The list goes on.

I think the phrase the right would use is welfare mom. 

Fau, do your teenagers immediately learn and follow everything you try to teach them?   ;)

The message I got from the NPR report was that "don't do it" is a stronger and more consistent message than, "well, if you're going to do it anyways".

People seem to be associating family values with conservative suburbs vs inner cities, etc.   I would think that it's a choice that a parent chooses and is unrelated to neighborhood, socio-economics, etc, etc.

And if there's no one else to provide for the mother and child in the conditions described, it's an accurate term.   

Seems like people are now implying that some people generally take care of their own family issues and others don't.

No Run, what I'm implying is that the "right" is ok with teen pregnancy as long as the family is wealthy. If the family is not, then all hell breaks lose.

There is a SERIOUS double standard here.

And wouldn't everyone be involved be better off if all of the woman had abortion as an option?

Had she been that example we wouldn't have even heard of her. teen preganncies happen every day to people below the poverty level.   I've got several in my family and no one has said anything about them in the press.  The only reason anyone feels the need to defend this poor girl is because she is being attacked.  No one is going around saying hey check out this great young lady. She is a great moral example to look up to.  She is being defended only because she is being attacked.

As far as other ways of the birth control you mentioned I would have several reason for not doing that outside of my morals. You can't be serious are you?  If pregnancy is the only thing you are worried about then you certainly have your priorities confused and we are speaking from two complete ends of the spectrum.  In no way is pregnancy a death sentence and I would never condone a child having an IUD inserted let alone the others.  

Then we are indeed speaking from 2 different spectrums here. I do feel that TEEN pregnancy is a death sentence for most teens. Approximately 70 % of teen mothers do not even finish high school. If that's not a death sentence, I don't know what is. How are you supposed to properly support a child with less than a high school education? What does that teach that child? Nevermind that it creates a never ending loop of teen pregnancy.

I suppose you would rather sentence a girl to socio-economic hardship than put her on birth control? I don't get that.

I tend to think the only two options we should giving teens upfront is abstinence  and condoms. 

None of the others prevent STD. 

The others are appropriate only for people in a long term relationship with someone when they have fully vetted their partners sexual history.   

And I am sure that was their intended purpose. It still doesn't mean that it is valid as it doesn't address the questions that have been posed.

I agree with this. STDs are a problem also, but teens aren't using condoms anyway. 1 in 4 teen girls has an STD. That is an extremely high number.  If they're not going to use a condom, at least have a back up plan. Plus, condoms break. I think ALL forms of bc should be offered. If he/she is mature enough to have sex, they need to be mature enough to understand the consequences and planning that goes into said sex. This includes the risk of getting an STD if they don't use a condom.

That probably explains why this (link (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/23/AR2008082302200.html)) isn't a big issue. 

You're wrong.  They're not okay with it, but they're even less okay with killing the baby.


Everyone except the babies.

We totally are coming from different worlds.  As I understand it, you don't want kids and that's ok.  Your point of view is from someone that certainly reflects that.  I on the other hand do not see kids as a hassle, inconvienence and in fact, my life pretty much revolves around them during this portion of my life.  I took half a pay cut to be able to spend time with them so obviosly I can't agree with you.

I see many people who see their kids as a burden (whether they know it or not) and spend more time doing their own thing than raising their kids. This has far more a negative effect on society than being low income.  I know many, and I do stress many, low income people that are raising fine, upstanding moral children that will certainly benefit society.  In fact, I dare say a single black mother with morals is much tougher on her kids than some Baby Boomer that spends more time on golf courses and tennis courts while their kids are being raised by a private, even Christian, school.  Nothing, including money, replaces the fact that a parent is there for their children emotionally and physically.

I do realize that I am somewhat of an unusal circumstance but I have close friends from the projects and trailer parks all the way up to mulitmillion dollar homes. I myself have come from the lesser up to middle class and didn't even really try.  The American dream is available to anyone that wants to get up and get it and while finances are a benefit, they certainly aren't the only way.

I had a job where I was a district manager always living on the road, one day I made the decision to stay home with my wife and kids and work locally, so I understand sacrificing yourself for your family like CF said. I grew up pretty poor in Southern Florida, I have seen it all. Honestly I believe people make choices when they sleep around, and they should live with that choice gives them. Just as someone who choices to get drunk shouldn't drive, they should live with the consequences of their actions. Most people don't know this but the biggest anti abortion supporters out there is the women involved with Roe-Vs-Wade.
Over all I think its great Palins daughter is going through with her pregnancy. I have had several nieces who had children out of wedlock as teenagers, and they do not see their kids as a burden. It's amazing in America we have more rights protecting unborn eagles then we do children. My 18 year old daughter has three friends who all got pregnant while in high school, they all returned and got their diploma's.

This kinda got glossed over, but I think it's a fair point.

I believe in teaching both abstinence and the facts about various forms of birth control and STD prevention.  Withholding information isn't the answer.  Some kids may respond well to one, some to the other.  It increases your chance of effectiveness, I think.

QFT  That is what I plan to do.  That is what my parents did.  They told me they would like me to wait but wanted me to be informed about birth control just in case.

We are indeed coming from different worlds. Teen pregnancy is NEVER ok. Period. I don't care what happens in the future. I'm talking about right now. Women are more empowered when they don't have a child attached to them.
QFT.

I don't see why condoms should be provided by school. You have to buy your own school supplies don't you? Kids find ways to get their own cigarettes which is illegal for them. Why should tax payers pay for gazillions of condoms for kids who a large percentage won't use? Its easy enough to get condoms. If they are embarassed to buy them, they can still go into a bathroom at a convienence store. If they're sll embarassed by that, think of the embarassment of walking into an abortion clinic, or telling your partner that you have an STD.

Kids have sex. They are going to keep having sex. All of you who are bashing Palin had sex before you were 18. So did the people who arent bashing her. We all did, and so will our kids. You can give them all the education you want to, and hope they follow it, but in the end, teenagers are still going to do what they want to.

Fau called Palin a hypocrite. I think that the people who are bashing her are hypocrites. Every family has members who have an incident that isn't the best thing for them. That's when families come together, and that's what has happened in Palins family.

Still, I'm sure that's not anyone's dream for their children. But unlike Obama's stance, that if it happens to his daughters, their way out would be abortion because, he "doesn't want them punished with a baby". She is doing the responsible thing...marrying the father, and having the baby. And, she isnt forced to do so. I'm also sure that if she had wanted to have an abortion, she could have and would have, and her mother would have loved her all the same. Adoption is another thing she could have done, and that would be an alternative that Palin would have no problem with. This hasnt even been brought up. She is having the baby and marrying the father because she loves the baby, and the father. No one is forcing her to do it.

Just for the record, not me.  I'm not bashing her either, so...

No. No I didn't.

woah woah woah .. i never called palin a hypocrite .. i called her incompetent at getting her political stance on abstinence only education across to her daughter .. the people praising palin for her daughters choice to keep the baby .. those are who i called hypocrites

Well, I applaud you then. I did the same for STL in a PM.


Fau, sorry for the misquote.

What's that say about Biden?  (link (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/23/AR2008082302200.html))

What is hypocritical about praising someone, NOT for having irresponsible premarital sex, but for not thinking that killing the baby would make everything alright?

Come on, RTW, you know darn well that those aborted babies had it coming to em.  ;)

RTW, why the hell do you keep posting the same link to a disputable story? Biden's son is tied up in a legal battle, but that article does nothing to show which party is in the right.

Trying to get Fau to comment on it.

If Palin is incompetent in family values because her daughter is pregnant, then is Biden incompetent in ethics if his son is accused of fraud?

If the case is thrown out of court I'll withdraw the question.

palin's daughter is a minor and living at home. biden's son is what ... 40? and not.

small difference (and by "small" I mean "makes your point look rediculous - huge")

I'd say it's just the opposite but that's just me.  I'd expect a 17 year old to make mistakes and bad decisions because in reality, they are still kids experimenting with boundaries and consequences.  A  40 year old should be very competent in making adult decisions and according to you, is a direct reflection of their upbringing. 

There is also a major difference. The daughter is not "accused of being pregnant", she is pregnant. Biden's son can be accused of anything,but until there is proof of some sort it seems a reach to make the comparison.

CF, I have to disagree. While a 17 year old is expected to make mistakes a parent's influence is much greater on a 17 year old than on a 40 year old. At 17 you are still exploring the world and trying tio figure out who you are. At that point in life your parents are one of your biggest influences. At 40 a person should be removed from their parents household for quite some time and should have been affected by far more experiences that will help reshape their being.

I can't say I completely disagree with you.  I was being a little cynical as I think Fau is really reaching to try and make her look bad.

My point is this ... while "kids" are heavily influenced by their parents, they are still kids and will not always make adult decisions.  Just like a boy may be nice and all ... but at the end of the day, he is still a boy.

While I must admit that I like to see the Republicans on their heels, if only for political gain, none of this "who is pregnant" crap matters to me.

What does matter is that McCain is on the wrong side of the major issues that face our country right now, and has chosen against his better judgment (he wanted Lieberman) and caved in to his party and selected an ultra-socially conservative to the ticket.

It's the same crap all over again -- pre-emptive wars, disastrous economic policy.

(http://209.85.117.199/1250/23/0/e784//e784.gif)

vs 9/11s/defensive wars and crippling economic policy.   ;)

That's some choice.

At least if we write in Ron Paul the negatives on the economic policy go away.

I guess you did everything your parents told you and never made any stupid mistakes - otherwise they'd be incompetent.  And I'm sure your kids will do the same.  Perhaps you and mom and dad could co-author a book on parenting for the rest of us? 

So Biden didn't instill enough intregrity into his son to stop him from being sued for fraud and that's okay with you.  Palin's daughter made an irresponsible personal choice and that makes Palin incompetent.

Having a baby ... terrible!  Being accused of committing fraud?  No biggie? 

Was misspelling ridiculous an attempt at ironic humor?  Clever!