The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

One year after hosting a mid-week day game and drawing only 400 fans, they do it again and draw only 600. 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/recap?gid=280903128

maybe they shodulnt' host mid-week day games .. just a thought

Waiting for Maine to put a pic of the empty stadium in his avatar with the tag line "And judging by the attendance you haven't"

Pathetic.

I know.  Mid week game.  Hot.  Blah blah blah. 

Every team in the league plays mid week games.  It's just as hot in Texas or Kansas City in the dead of summer.  And, yet, the Marlins are the ones that - year in and out - pull a pathetic stunt link this.

Contraction.

Yesterday was just another example of why we don't need a new stadium. I'm behing Norman Braman all the way, put this thing to a vote and it gets shot down on the spot. People just don't care about baseball. The marlins served their purpose this season. They were in the race until about late august, but it's football season . That's all we care about down here. The marlins should just pack up and leave.

There's no correlation.

I care about baseball a lot.  I've been to plenty of games this season.

A afternoon weekday game is out of the question.  I have a job, I have to work.  I'm not allowed to take a day off from work to go to a baseball game.  I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.

This is seriously lame, and I wonder why they even have games in the afternoon.

Part of the problem is that there are just too damn many games on their schedule.

Maybe there shouldn't be any baseball teams in Florida.

Now you've pushed the buttons, ready for my rant?

[rant]

I'm kinda tired of the holier than thou attitude from fans of "big name" teams like Red Sox, Yankees, Mets, Cubs, etc. that is projected on Marlins fans as a whole.  I'm sorry that we don't have 100+ years of history.  I'm sorry that we don't have 13 generations deep of fans.  I'm sorry that all of YOUR PEOPLE are clogging up our sports infrastructure and preventing new generations from adopting the local team.  You know how many 40-something Yankees fans I see at Marlins' games with 2 or 3 kids behind them, 10 years old or younger, decked out in Jeter jersies?  The Marlins will never form a deep following as long as this continues to happen.

Truth is the team is only 15 years old, and the Florida demographic of "everyone is from somewhere else" doesn't promote people to align with the local team.  Natives are a rarity here.  Heaven forbid someone should want to support the local teams.

So, they have an afternoon game against the Braves (who suck this year) and draw no one.  SHOCKING!  Why would a Mets fan take a day off work to go watch the Marlins play the Braves?  Why do you think there's more Cubs fans at the game than Marlins fans?  You think they all flew down from Chicago?  I doubt it.

That doesn't mean that those of us that DO like the Marlins are crappy fans.  I can't afford to go to 81 games a season.  I go when I can, and I've gone to 14 games this season.  I think I've done my part.

Contraction?  Great idea - when there's only 8 teams left in the league cause no other teams are worthy, it'll be easier for you to win the world series. ::)

[/rant]

edit - of course now I'm going to get the history lesson about how the Marlins can't sell out a game after they win a championship and how every other team gets people to go to games during the day.  That really has nothing to do with what I just wrote.

Amen, Brother Brian!!

I'd like remove the nipples of every single AL Elitist with a cheese slicer, put them on a string and wear them as a necklace at the ballpark.

Brian,

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v693/lordthundergod/Random%20pics/applause2uf3.gif)


...you brought a tear to my eye.

[hijack]

BTW, T-God...I'm digging your hydralisk avatar. Makes me want to cloak a few carriers for a fly-by. ;D

[end hijack]

That was an excellent rant. You should rant way more often.

Blah, blah, blah, blah...AL elistist...you need 145 generations of fans to have decent attendance numbers, insert this excuse, insert that excuse, blah, blah freaking blahity blah.

Want a rant?  I can rant too.  I love MLB and drawing less than 1,000 people a few times a year EVERY YEAR has no place in this game.

Baseball has no place in Southern Florida.

That's it.  I mean, really.

The Marlins are the only team that has afternoon / midweek games?  I call bullshit.

The Kansas City fucking Royals - a much worse team, by the way, is outdrawing the Marlins by over 4,000 people per game.  No team in MLB - NOT ONE - has drawn less than 1,000 god damn fans for a game.

SIX HUNDRED FANS.  Are you kidding me?  That's a freaking joke.  It's a slap in the face to Major League Baseball.  But yet it's because I am an elistist AL fan?

Fuck that.

It's because I am a BASEBALL FAN. 

SIX HUNDRED FANS.

Christ, almighty.

Okay, you want to talk AL elitist, like that has ANTHING to do with the shitty ass Marlins pulling in less people than what show up to watch junior high field hockey?

Pittsburgh - 20,000 per game.  One of the worst teams in baseball.  4,000+ more per game than Florida.

Cinci - TERRIBLE team.  25,000 per game average.

Washington.  HORRIFIC team.  29,000 / game per average.

San Diego.  How many games below .500 are they?  30,000 game / average.  Over DOUBLE than what Florida draws.  Must be the Padres thick championship history that keeps the fans coming back.

Colorado.  Last time I checked, they suck.  And - last time I checked - they came into the league around the same time.  So no layers of generations to build a fan base.  One of the league leaders in over all attendance.  33,100 per game, over two million through this year already.

The Giants are terrible.  AWFUL.  Barry Bonds ain't there to put asses in the seats.  2,400,000 this season at a clip of 35,000 per game.

The Marlins - who have fielded a decent team - is dead ass last.  16,000 per game.  I guess every game has been a mid week game with high temps, yes?  There is no excuse - not one, not any, don't even try - for ANY professional team to draw SIX HUNDRED FANS for a game.

So give me a break with this "everyone isn't a Red Sox fan."  Women's semi pro football would draw more than 600 for a game.  That is pathetic and embarrassing. 

Disband the Marlins.  Not many people would notice.

I wonder what Hanley thinks as he belts a home run and hears the dozen go crazy? 

I have to agree with Brian.  Tampa has the same problem and it's even worse with the Yankee and Red sux errr sox.  It pisses me off to no end that all the transplants in Florida are trying to take over our sports teams.  I personally am one of the few natives of FL and on a daily basis I have to see some asshole wearing a Red Sox hat or a NYY hat, talking about how much the Rays suck (how does that 3 1/2 game lead taste Boston?)..when half of the city is divided between NY and Boston, and I can't speak for South FL but I'm sure it's the same, how many fans do you expect to show up to games?...you go to a Rays game and even when NY/Boston aren't playing you see some ass in Sox or Yankees gear...good for you guys but you don't see any of us going up to New England and NY trying to tell you how much your team sucks...IMO the difference between Miami and Tampa and every other baseball city is just that...there are more transplants here than actual natives anymore, and they bring their sports team with them instead of rooting for the local team.  Hopefully when decades go by and IF our FL teams are still around we can actually fill up a stadium.

sorry about the rant but this is something that pisses me off more than anything...it's not just a sports thing, it's a FL thing.

(Nothing against Sox and Yankees fan but don't come to my state and tell me my team sucks and we aren't "real" fans)

I applaud the people that support the teams.  I applaud Brian, I applaud my buddy Doug that has had Ray season tickets from day one and rarely miss a game.  Tampa's fan base is small however it's very loyal.  I expect it to grow after this season.

My entire beef is that no professional sports franchise should ever draw 600 people for a regular season game.  I'm not quite sure Brian quite gets the ramifications of that.  Minor league hockey teams in Texas don't dip to that level.

600 people.  Wow.  And this isn't a first, or a low, for the Marlins.

It really is too bad for the fan base that team does have.

I think the "fire sale(s)" that ownership have hosted every time the Marlins win a title have caused the fanbase to distrust them.If I remember right,they were setting attendence records right up through the first World Series then uncle Wayne sold off every player that helped them win it.

And why did they have those fire sales in the first place??  Because fans didn't come out and support the team.  I'm going to gravedig Maine's quotes from another thread about how the Marlins fan base is different from, say, the Yankees or Red Sox.  Maine, this isn't a knock on you.  Rather, you said it better than I ever could. 

http://www.thedolphinsmakemecry.com/forums/index.php?topic=7569.0

Yup, too many games, games are too long, they play the same team too many times w/ unbalanced schedule.

Baseball would be good if they just played 1 three game series (Friday-Saturday-Sunday) a week for 20 weeks.  60 games is more than enough a season. With only 3 games a week they could use a three man rotation to improve play.  Right now baseball is definitely quantity over quality.  But then why should they change when they make loads of money in attendance for 162 games a year. 

If they cut the schedule down, then ticket prices would skyrocket.  No more $9 cheap seats. 

who cares baseball is horrible, borin, get the marlins outta here, get the infield dirt off my football field and lets get on with life

Are you saying the fans of other teams which host mid week day games don't work?  ;)

No.Tommy,the fans did come out(did you even read the first part of my post?)the Marlins had great attendance until Wayne sold off the team the first time.This caused fans to say screw 'em and they haven't been back.I agree that the Marlins have great young talent and deserve the fans support,but I think the fans are afraid to get behind these guys because they think if they should win,they'll be gone the next year.And yes,I get pissed too at the northeast transplants that make home games for the Marlins(and Dolphins)home games for the other teams from up north.

Wrong.  The fans did not come out consistently even before Wayne sold off the team.  Read Maine's post from the other thread.  Granted they had good attendance for the first two years, but I think what hurt them was the strike at the end of the 1994 season.  Fans were pretty pissed that there was no World Series, and attendance was down all over the league as a result. 

I'm being totally serious here...

Maine, I have a question for you.  How many people up there do you run into that are NOT Red Sox fans? 

In Florida, the fan base for baseball is so split...  I'd say the percentages were something like this:

Yankees fans: 22%
Red Sox fans: 18%
Mets fans: 15%
Marlins fans: 12%*
Cubs fans: 8%
Other teams: 25%

*- Marlins fans include those that still support the team, as well as those who are still jaded by past firesales.

This is no joke.  Of course there's no statistical data to back this up but I'd be quite surprised if the numbers were far off.

So, tell me what I need to do to make more people call themselves "Marlins fans"?  Do I need to buy people tickets and give them away for free?  Heh, guess what, I've tried that before - no takers.  Do I need to buy a Marlins hat for every kid in the state?  Tell me how I can do my part to make the Marlins more "acceptable," because I don't want my favorite team to go *POOF* and disappear just because other people come down and clog shit up.

I just wish they would get rid of those stupid black uniforms(whose idea was that?Wear black when it is 90 degrees outside)and go back to the teal as I think it identifies with South Florida more.Maybe when the new stadium is finished people will come out,I doubt it though because of the location.

From reading this thread, it seems like the reason people do not feel attached to the Marlins is because so many people in the area are from somewhere else originally.  I don't think it has a lot to do with winning or losing, as they still did not draw well when they were winning.

A ton.  I have a lot of fans check in on my show each weekend that support teams from the Yankees to the O's.  A ton of O's fans up here, actually.

You need to keep this in mind about New England and the sports teams that people here support.  The blackout rule used to cover 200 miles.  The Pats and Sox both sucked for quite a while and rarely would the teams be on TV within the blackout radius (that went clear to Bangor, Maine).  So people became followers of other teams for that reason, they saw other teams on TV more often in the 70's and 80's.

I think you are missing the entire point of this conversation.  I don't doubt that there are a ton of Sox fans, etc, in your neck of the woods.  That's not the point.

The point is that the Marlins are a professional baseball team that has drawn less than 700 people for a regular season game a few seasons in a row.  

I hear all these excuses - mid week this and that, it's too hot, there are too many games on the schedule (huh??) and none of that answers the question:

If Miami can't draw more than 700 people for a MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL GAME does that city DESERVE a team?  Because the reality of the situation is this:

1:  It's a good team.
2:  EVERY team plays mid week games.
3:  EVERY team plays when it's hot out.
4:  The heat index was over 100 yesterday for the 'Phins.  They had a few more than 700 people in that stadium.  In other words...people WILL come out for a product that they enjoy.
5:  EVERY team plays the same amount of games.

I could grab on to something like 7,000.  That's embarrasing, but I could get it.  But 700?

It isn't about you as a supporter.  It's about the city of Miami, and southern Florida, time and time again screaming "we don't care about this team."

I don't understand how your question is relevant.  Do we deserve a team?  No.  Does anyone, though?

Baseball is a business, and it's up to the owners to decide if it's worth it to keep a franchise down here.  There are several reasons for why people don't go to games here.  We have a non-traditional layout.  We don't have the stadium in a centralized area with lots of people...we have to drive to it.  ...that's a big one.  There's lots of other forms of entertainment.  It's just a unique place.  ...and on top of that, people don't care.

But it's not for us to be shamed into going.  As a business, make a product that people want to see.  Figure it out...and if you can't do that to your satisfaction, pack up and go somewhere else.

It's not my job to like baseball.  It's their job to make me like it, just like any other product or service that I buy.

The Marlins have put a good product on the field, people still do not come to games.

I understand your point, but let's be frank - the ONLY time attendance is a problem for the Marlins is weekday day games.  To me here's the answer: don't have day games during the week.

The Marlins have drawn crowds of 20k+ for every game I've been to.  The house has been packed (by Marlins standards).  Seems like a simple algorithm - if you have a product that's not selling, stop offering it.

They have 2 or 3 games a year that are like this.  Its nothing new.  How about you move that game 4 hours later in the day and you increase your attendance 10-fold, minimum.

Is it fair to contract an entire franchise based on 2 games out of 81?  

No, but their overall attendance is still very low.

meh -"very low" is a relative term.

The Marlins sell out the lower bowl to every game I've been to, and part of the upper bowl.  You look at empty seats on TV but most of those seats aren't even available for sale.

I'm not making excuses.  Just don't take away my team because everyone else likes different teams.

I was agreeing with you previously, about people not being attached to the Marlins because they are transplants from elsewhere.  I don't know the attendance stats for different teams, but I would have to guess the Marlins are at the low end.  20,000 would only fill roughly half of our stadium and everyone thought the sky was falling when the Cardinals failed to sell out a game earlier this season.  I just don't understand people who would not want to go to a baseball game.

I would encourage everyone on these boards to go to a game.  Please let me know when you come to town, I'll buy us some tickets.  The people who go to the game aren't even interested in the game.  They're interested in the Mermaids, doing the wave, drinking beer, taking pictures of each other, or getting free t-shirts thrown at them.  Its disgusting that SportsChick and I go to a game and it seems like we're the only 2 people in our section actually paying attention to the field.

If you were to go to the game, you'd know why no one cares.

You just blew your entire stance with this one ill fated comment.

It's not "relative" at all, Brian.  The Marlins are over .500 and put a good product on the field and, yet, are dead last in overall attendance and dead last in per game attendance.

Are you going to sit there and tell me that the fans in Kansas City have more to cheer about?  A better product?  A rich winning tradition?  Sure, back into the early 80's.  The Marlins have two rings themselves.  And, yet, KC outdraws Florida by almost 4,000 people a game.

Everyone out draws Florida.  There are minor league teams that will bring in more people this season. 

It's not relative at all.

I guess I'm old fashioned in the thinking that a professional sports franchise should draw more people than the Windham, Maine high school football game I went to on Friday night.  It was pouring, windy & cold.  There were about 2,600 people there.  The school itself has about 600 kids, so those weren't all parents and students.

How can you say "very low" is not relative?  If the Marlins draw 3000 people, but the rest of the league draws 25 people, suddenly its "very high."

Can you show me dates and numbers of which games the Marlins drew less than 2600 people?  I'm curious.

I'd wager that there's more Kansas City Royals fans in the world than Marlins fans.  The Royals have been around since 1969 - that's 40 years ago.  How many New Yorkers pick up and move to Kansas City?  Compared to how many move to Florida?  Half of the people in Miami don't even speak English, and the other half are Yankees' fans.

The Marlins may still draw a low crowd compared to the rest of baseball, but they're up compared to past seasons.  Its a trend that I hope will continue so that Maine and I are not still arguing about this when we're grandparents.

Look, again, I can't tell you WHY no one cares, but the truth is that there's just NOT enough fans.  How many Marlins fans do you run into outside of south Florida?  I have given you my hypothesis, yet you continue to argue with me.  Seems like I'm fighting a losing battle.

So transparent... Maine is just hoping to get the contraction-by-attendence bushwah to catch on, so he can sweep the Rays into that group and get the AL East back to being Boston and New York, 24/7... ::)

Hey Brian I hear ya man...It is like a war just to fill up a Rays game because of all the Sox and Yankees fan...It's not quite as bad as the Marlins right now but it still sucks...Kazmir even ripped the fans a little when he said it's kindof disheartening to go to other teams stadiums and they're sold out and we can barely get 10,000 at a home game...I think people are starting to turn it around up here, but only time will tell.

...by the way I do see quite a few Marlin fans in Tampa  :)

No matter how many teams there are, there will always be one team that everybody outdraws.

There's several problems that I see with attendance.

Number 1: There are so many other attractions competing for a persons dollar in South Florida. From Orlando to Miami, you've got so many alternate attractions on the weekends and during the weekday.The Marlins have to compete with that. You also have the horse and dog racing and Jai-Alai.

Pro Football almost didn't make it in Miami. I looked some stuff up and the Miami Seahawks (which moved to Baltimore and became the Colts) had to leav town because of no interest. The Dolphins could have folded in 1968, only two years after they came into the AFL because of fan attendance at the OB.

Miami had an ABA Basketball team, The Floridians, in which the fan support was poor. Professional wrestling in the late 1960's and early 1970's drew more fans that the Floridians at the Miami Beach Convention Center.

Number 2:  Traffic Issue - The complexes are spreaded out and that's not the fault of Dade, Broward or Palm Beach Counties. Lets just say that you have a Heat, Marlins or Dolphins and Panthers game going on. You would have to get on I-95, go through that maze called the Golden Glades just to get to Dolphins Stadium. That's 40 minutes. Try getting to the National Car Rental Center and that's an hour.

Here in Denver, you're in walking distance to either stadiums once you are in the downtown Denver area (Coors Field, Invesco Field and the PepsiCenter where the Nuggets play. It's easier to navigate.

Number 3: the Generational Fan - The little kids that saw the Marlins win their first two World Series are more likely to pass that down to their children IF the Marlins stay in South Florida. South Florida is transitory and it's gonna take a while for the Marlins generational fan base to be built up.

The first five years of the Dolphins existence, the OB would always sell out when the Jets came to town with Joe Namath because you had a lot of transplanted New Yorkers.

Most of all the venues are spreaded out and there are so many other things that compete with your dollar.

I really think if the Marlins can just "be" - just remain a team - for 15-20 more years, we'll have a lot less problems selling tickets.

Oh, but wait, they're moving the stadium to an even worse location.  Great.  May as well jump on the Red Sox bandwagon now so I can say "I was a fan since...."

You are right,ethurst.Here in the Nashville area,the Titans are the only game in town.They were worried because alot of people here make the 3 hour drive to Knoxville on Saturdays for UT games and this is a working class area,would they be able to afford to do both,but the Titans have something like a 5 year waiting list for season tickets(plus you have to buy PSLs).The NHL Predators also have a very loyal,but much smaller fanbase,and had to have a "ticket drive" last year to decide whether a Canadian businessman could buy the team and move them to Hamilton,Ont. but we got to keep our team.
 South Florida is a very different market.There is alot more to do,plus the cost of living is way high.But I can't help but wonder how it differs from an area like,say,San Diego.They have a transient population out there and tons of other stuff to do,but somehow always seem to come out and support their Padres and Chargers.Maybe South Floridians are just lazy because the Marlins t.v. ratings are some of the best in baseball.

^^ We can also get you a nice pink Sox hat Brian.

Ewww. no Pink Red Sox stuff allowed in the house

Of course.  But to be outdrawn in the fashion that Florida is - not acceptable.  Look at the figures.

South Florida doesn't offer any more activities than an area like Boston or New York during the summer.  The cost of living certainly couldn't be higher.  The number of transplants in the north east is staggering, it's not like everyone here is from here.  I'm not buying the "South Florida is a different market."  All markets are different to some extent.  Generally speaking most markets also offer many different competing forms of entertainment as well.  There are 20,000 different (cheaper) ways to spend your day in Boston during the summer than attend a Red Sox game if we're using a market like Boston as an example.  Same deal for a place, as you say, like San Diego. 

I truly believe that the most important issue is that of the fan base.  People always point to the first two years of Florida's existance which isn't fair - most professional expansion teams do well initially.  The meat of it is that I don't think South Florida will support anything long term that isn't the Dolphins.

The city supports the Heat off and on.  The attendance numbers in '07 for the Panthers was 15,000 a game, or 22nd out of 30. 

It just don't think baseball fits well into the picture in South Florida - or Tampa for that matter.  Best team in baseball and still barely pulling 16,000 a game.  Air conditioned building.  Comfy seats.  Cheap tickets.  They have free food night 10 times this year and $10 tickets.  Still...no interest.

I've yet to see you buy anything that didn't agree with your point...so why should this surprise me?

There have been a lot of good reasons laid out up here for the Marlins attendence woes. Lack of generational ties, spread out communities, distance to the ballpark, depressed economy, variety of other activities, ETC... If you'd like to buy one of those, great!  If not, please feel free to pack up that picket sign and protest outside a different stadium.

Ooooooooooooooh.  I get it.  I'm supposed to be the one that bends my opinion to everyone else.  Gotcha.  When everyone else disagrees it's a matter of point and opinion.  When Maine disagrees it's...well...just for the sake to disagree.  Coming from you - that's rich.

And, yet, the point of the thread has yet to be addressed directly by anyone else other than me.

600 people at a Major League Baseball game.

So I guess no one else came because their grandfather's grandfather wasn't an original fan of the franchise when it started in 1902.  In addition the stadium is too far out of the city and it's hard to get to.  The tickets are too expensive, I forgot that the rest of the nation is paying $1.17 a gallon for gas and Miami folk are paying $7.89 a gallon.  PLUS the circus was in town that day, along with the Blue Angel fighter pilots and a new IMAX theater opened and was showing 'The Dark Knight' (for free, of course, because only people in South Florida are broke).

Now I completely understand why only 600 people showed up for a professional baseball game.  It's very clear. 

Meanwhile people in cities like Kansas City come out to support their team for numerous reasons.  First the good people of KC don't pay for food or gas, it's free in that part of the country.  They offer limo services to the game, you don't even need to drive.  Kansas City has quietly fielded the first undefeated team in MLB history, it's amazing what that young core of players have done this season.  Each chair in that stadium is equip with retractable personal SPF 100 shades that shield you from the sun, in addition to individual air conditioning units and personal (free) food and beverage service for each seat.  I forgot the best part!  Mid week games?  People's employers pay THEM to attend games!  It's a win-win!  No wonder places like KC or Texas have never drawn that low a figure for a mid week summer game.  I fully understand now and retract all statements about how ridiculous it is for an MLB game to have 600 people in the stands.  How silly of me.

Keep comparing paid attendance of other teams to the actual attendance at the marlins game.  that makes sense.

^^

Six hundred people. 

Keep trying to spin that number all you want.

Six hundred people.

Again - more people attend JV field hockey games than that.

Does the JV field hockey teams also sell 11,211 tickets?

You're making no sense what so ever.

The TOTAL ATTENDANCE for a recent Marlins game was under 600 souls.  Not 11,211.  No team - EVER - should draw that low.  Period.  I don't care about comps or however you're trying to spin it.  There were less than 600 total asses in that stadium.  And if we're talking 'paid attendance' - I am willing to bet a bunch of that 600 didn't pay.

So forget about this paid attendance stuff, your random number of 11,211 and what not and focus on the point.

That point: September 4, 2008.  The unofficial count at Dolphin stadium for a professional baseball game was 589.  No way around that, there are no excuses.

589 total people in a stadium for a professional baseball game.  Please feel free to stick to the point.  If you are, I am not getting what that point is.

If that's the case, then make sure you count asses in seat for the Royals, and every other team.  Don't tell me how games "sell out" cause that has nothing to do with asses in seats.

Hey Brian -- take a look at my responses.  Where have I said a word about teams selling out games?  Read.  Don't skim.  *I* specifically said that I could care less what team sells out games and how often - I want HEALTHY attendance at each game to demonstrate the general strength of MLB.

Toronto pulls in about 29,000 per game.  That's pretty damn okay.  The O's are horrid and pull in 26,000 per game.  That's pretty damn okay.  I could go on.

I.don't.care.about.sell.outs.

Healthy attendance.  That's all I care about.  16,000 a game isn't quite there.  It's not AWFUL - but it's not great.  You can build on that.  589 for a game sure as hell isn't there at all.  Again - a few thousand for conditions like they were on 9 Sept?  Okay.  But 589?  C'mon.  Toss me a freakin' bone here, huh?