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  BENCH PENNINGTON, THE BUM! HENNE'S THE FUTURE, AND THE FUTURE IS NOW!

I agree Sciotto!!!  This season is already in the toilet.  Let's see what the kid can do!!!!

Yeah, let's throw him behind center for one of the worst teams in football... that always works out well.

Let him play some, but not as a starter. We can't lose him because he gets rattled the way Beck did.

Did you really think we would really be significantly better this year?

I've already said a thousand times that because he has big game exp. at Mich. as a 4 year starter he is not the same as Beck...he can actually be a QB as a rookie to do something....at least more than that Jet bum Pennington.

Well we all have pretty much accepted that this season isnt going to be that great. So, why risk injuring Henne in a season that was going to be in the toilet in the first place?

Word.

Get him some experience, if the season's in the toilet there's no reason to have noodles in. We've seen 9 yrs. of him, that's enough.

To get him in live game situations.  Screw this "sitting, watching and learning" bullshit.  You get thrown into the deep end and you either sink or swim.  Beck sank like a rock.  Henne looks more like a swimmer.

because...


...that's why

I am so glad you guys don't run the team.  It's going to take YEARS before we see any improvement.  Chad Henne can't throw the ball to himself.  Chad Henne can't play DB.  Chad Henne will not make one bit of difference THIS year.

COme on Tommy knows everything, remember he is the reason Cam got fired last year.

agreed...but at least Henne will keep us respectable in games where as Pennington is a complete bum....that's what we get for signing a freaking NY Jet.

Based on what, a decent preseason and a Arizona defense that was playing prevent in the 4th. Henne needs to sit and wacth this season.

I'd like to ask you to look at todays stats for Alex Smith (thrown to the wolves) and Aaron Rodgers (sitting, waiting, watching).

Brilliant!

Its a little tougher when the D is not playing prevent.

Roethlisberger, E. Manning, Palmer...  pretty good QB's. All first year players.

Hit and miss. Of course more missess, but eh, we'll see.


Sort of like the 4th qtr. last week and everyone had Pennington as the guy who brought 'em back?

Eli manning isnt good.  Palmer sat behind kitna his first year.

My bad, Palmer sat. Eli? Debatable I'm sure.

Guys let's slow down here. We didn't lose today because of Penningtons performance. Yes Henn is the future and that is not right now. Let's slowly mold this guy so we will have many years with Henne at the helm.

^ But they should be good now!!!  We don't want to wait!!!  Fire everyone!!!

^lol agreed....seriously I personally hate Pennington because he was a Jet bum...but the secondary was the worst part about today

This team wasn't build to win this year.  It is half rookies.  It is being built to be competitive in 2010. 

^yep your right (won't say that much to a Pats fan)...but they still played like a bunch of pee wee kids today...

As much as I like what I see from Henne,I like the Velocity of his ball,on time,but it was junk time...Down by 28 points.....As much as I hate to...I think the smart move is to sit him....

I think the Running game is going to struggle with Chad Pennington at QB,and Ginn on the sideline...No one  on our offense scares the defense enough to back the corners off,and safties back...

I also think the Recievers are good enough to pick up,Henne if he struggles...They mentione don the broadcast, Ginn doesn't have a great veteran reciever to show him the Ropes....Use Pennington,to show Henne the ropes...Let Pennington Teach the recievers...just my take...

It just sucks that we have a deep threat but we don't have a guy that can throw him the deep ball....well at least a guy who isn't a rookie....that effects our run game....causing opposing defenses to stack the line...next thing you know our secondary is getting smoked because it sucks and we're losing 34-10...just a prediction though.... ::)

And after we fire them, let's turn the roster over AGAIN and dump all the old regime's guys, too, like Jake Long, the bum, and Chad Henne, the loser, and Kendall Langford, the good for nothing facemask grabber...and THEN, when the new regime loses two games, let's FIRE THEM TOO!!! WOO HOO!!  That's how you build a champion!!

Seriously, people, relax.  The team's all young players.  Let 'em learn the game.  Sure, Henne looked good out there, but that's because 'Zona was out there playing prevent.  Let him sit and learn, like Palmer did, like Philip Rivers did.  Give the kid a year to sit and get some mop up duty.  Next year's his year.

I'm not sure if THIS seasons record would be different with Henne in there right now, or if he's even got the potential to be a long term answer, but the Rodgers v. Smith comparison can paint a bit of a skewed picture...I can think of a few QB's who were high picks that started frequently in their rookie seasons and turned out all right...

Marino, D.
Manning, P.
Manning, E.
Roethlisberger, B.
McNabb, D.

...so if you admit that CP isn't the answer maybe a plan to bring Henne in from week 10 on forward would be a worthwhile investment, especially if we aren't winning at that point.  Also, b/c I'm sure someone will ask, week 10 @ home vs. Seattle (given up 30+ points each game), week 11 @ home vs. Oakland, week 12 @ home vs. NE (rough), week 13 @ StL.  Week 10 gives him a little while to get acclimated and then sets him up against 3 weak defenses in his first 4 games.

It doesn't matter if Henne starts or not.  Pennington wasn't the problem today.  It was our shitty defense. 

Yes, yes, yes- I know there are lots of QBs who have started from day one and have been successful. The only reason I brought up those particular two are because Smith was in a similar rebuilding type situation when he was thrown to the wolves, and see how that has turned out? Rodgers sat and eventually started (for different reasons), but is playing behind an established offensive line, with established players at the other offensive skill positions, and that has probably helped him be successful.

So throw Henne to the wolves behind a new offensive line group, which is still revolving (change at right guard due to injury), and he'll be playing with raw WR's.
-or-
Let him sit a season, while the O-line gels, and the WRs take their lumps and learn to run routes.

I'd rather see him sit.
I really, really like Henne, and think he may be a long term answer. But I doubt want to see him get his head knocked off because people think the Fins should be in the playoffs this season.

eli  manning isn't good?  can i have your drug dealer's number?

I'm agreeing with you alot in this thread.  ;D

The one thing on Ben is Pitts. ran the ball & ran it a lot.  Ben was only ask to throw about 15-20 times a game.  They protected him.  He only had 1 games where he threw more than 25 times. If you can run the ball then you can protect a young Qb more easily.

Eli was basically considered a disappointment until last years SB run & lets remember he did not start playing until about the half way point of the year.

Palmer, you already know about.

I hope you all realise I was being sarcastic here.

Don't care what your "logic is"...I mean what is "logic" anyways...Henne is  the greatest thing since sliced...no BETTER than sliced bread and he needs to start now...damn people....

(this sarcastic comment brought to you by bitter dolphin fan...if your bitter and your team sucks then please...try TDMMC...thank you)

I knew this would happen.

Henne comes in in garbage time, down by 4 TD, and scores.  Wow.

Let's start him now so, by season's end, you can put him in the same bucket with Beck and say "he sucks we should cut him"

::)

Henne's gonna see time, but I'd be surprised if he starts.

Today's loss wasn't cause of Pennington.  It was (a) poor game planning - too run-oriented, no balance, and (b) piss poor shitty play from one side of our secondary.

Chris Crocker and Andre Goodman should get their walking papers immediately.

drafted in Dan Marino in 1983 ..The league was different,and lets remember we picked late in the round.we came off a superbowl year....We had a pretty good team around him....

Peyton Manning was drafted in 1998,Number one over all ...Had Marvin
Harrison,and Marshall Faulk to hand the ball off too...

Donavon Mcnabb - drafted 2nd overall in 1999....only started 6 games his rookie season...5 wins....Duece Staley had a pretty good year....

Eli Manning drafted #1 over all traded to the Giants...Started 7 games his rookie year, Had Tiki Barber in the backfield and Jeremy Shockey as TE...Descent Wr's..A team a few years removed from the Superbowl....

Ben Rothlisberger....Someone already mentioned...

Chad Henne- Second round pick...Hagan and Ginn are the only Wr's on the roster last year...Only 2 o-lineman on left from last year (had 2 rookies starting on the O-line....)....

Hmm see a big difference in these guy's bio...Maybe it's just me...but All those guy's were high first round picks with descent teams....

Eli Manning played like shit his first 2 seasons.  Not until recently has he looked like a quality NFL QB.

yep
yes again but argument weakening....Harrison wasn't shit until Manning came around and Manning still had a up and down season (PLAYOFFS!?! You want to talk about PLAYOFFS!?!  PLAYOFFS?!?!  We'd be lucky to win a game!)
eh maybe Duece had an ok season but what about the rest of the team?  IMO Donovan didn't have much to go into plus the fans hated him when he was drafted...By the way I love Donavon and Phili fan better wake up...I hear too much bad stuff about him from them
Yes he had Tiki but he was always overrated IMO before his last two year...a fumble machine until he adjusted his carrying style which I do believe overlapped with Eli's rookie year...Shockey had a good rookie season but was overrated after that...Eli only proved himself last year in IMO.
No question inherited an awesome team his rookie year

...and the whole point of the argument....I have a personal opinion that since Henne was a 4 year starter at a big time school he is ready to be thrown into the starting role right away...BUT...I am no idiot and can see that it might be better to sit him...the difference between him and sayyyyy BECK might be that Henne is known for his mental toughness while Beckers is known for being more intimidated than a chicken in an alligator pit....I think since Henne is already mentally tough (a big part of the reason why most rookie QBs are sat their first year) he could be ready after our bye week.

Err maybe you need to check the stats..Marvin Harrison,may not have been the superstar...but he had 2 years with 800+ yards  8 Tds his rookie year,and 6 his second year... with Jim Harbaugh as his QB....Before Peyton got there....


Like it or Not Tiki had 2000 total yards 15 Td's and made the pro bowl Eli's rookie year..Shockey was the second on the team with 600 + yardsa and 6 Td's that year.....Also had Current Dolphins Reggie Torbor,and Will Allen on it... :P

As much I'd like to say,Yeah maybe...But this is the NFL,and it's adifferent ball game,no matter how you slice it....Alot of great College QB's never make it in the NFL....

^Ya a lot of college QBs don't make it which is a shame....Ryan Leaf?  Danny Werfull?  Chris Weinke?  Ty Detmer is the biggest shame IMO....I mean the list goes on and on....and you do make a lot of good points lil B....my point is most of those guys and their surrounding cast weren't much at the time...they developed into superstars with the rookie starters....like, say, a Ginn could do...I was always a Tiki hater by the way...thought he was overratted because of all the fumbles until he changed his style....that can be debated though...

Okay, the point was not that Henne is or isn't going to become Marino/Manning(s)/McNabb/Big Ben.  The question is what is best for the team long term...and no one has come to Pennington's defense in that regard.  No one should, he's 32 and has a history of arm problems.  That doesn't mean that he wouldn't be a great fit for a team that just needs someone to shepherd them to the playoffs...i.e. the Bears.

As for the fact that the Dolphins scenario isn't the EXACT same as the other QBs I mentioned, true.  Peyton walked into a 3-13 team.  Same for McNabb.  That is slightly better than 1-15.  So the comparison probably isn't fair.  You are right that the Manning Giants were slightly better (4-12).  None of these teams were great.  As for "they were in the SB just a few  years before talk" I believe the Tuna would say that you are what your record says you are.  These teams were awful (I'm leaving Marino out of this because the league has changed so much since then).  Also worth noting that none of these QBs, with the possible exception of Peyton, was very good initially.  There is a curve for evaluating young QBs.

Was it the right move to start Beck last year?  I think it was, b/c we learned that Beck is not our guy (notice no one clamoring for him now).  We drafted Henne.  How long are we going to let the steward, Pennington, run the ship before we find out if we're even sitting the right guy on the bench to learn?  I'm not saying Week 3, but it might be time to admit we need a good evaluation of him this year.

What we learned was he was not prepared to start as a rookie without the help of the players beside him.

You do not find out what a Qb has his rookie year.  You just don't.  Majority of Miami fans think because Marino did it that all Qbs can.  It just isn't so.

I don't think that b/c Marino did it that all QBs can.  We've seen 13 guys try and fail since Marino, so I'd have to be dumb to believe that Marino was the norm.  He was truly exceptional, but that's not the point.  The point was that we have to find out what we have.  We are re-building, which I think means finding out what we have at various positions.  Let Henne become a leader for Ginn, Wilford, Brown, the young O-line, etc. so that he's not the only unproven guy in 2-3 years when we're good enough for him to play (and take his growing pains then).  I don't think that Henne would be a guaranteed success this season or next, but I do think that the fact that we can cite both QBs that have been thrown into the fire immediately AND some that sat on the bench and waited their turn as guys who succeeded and failed than we know that there is no surefire method for success.  The only way to know what you have is to play them and see them in competitive meaningful games. 

Also, people act like because he was a second round pick and not a first that he's not a big investment.  Ask GM's in the league how highly a 2nd round pick is regarded.  Look at what people get in return when they trade 2nd rounders.  Look at what people get when they trade late round picks.  Moss went for a 4th rounder.  Marino was a couple of picks away from being a second rounder.  Second round picks are high value picks, so it is worth finding out what they are.  We are playing (or did play) Long, Merling, Ginn, Allen, Brown, and Roth.  They are all 1st and 2nd rounders.  The whole point is here that since we're willing to re-build at all these positions, we should not be so reticent to do it at QB.

First off.  Its a rarity that rookies lead.   Second this is the same mentality that ended up putting Beck in far before he was ready.  Not sure how long you think some think Henne should sit ( 2-3 ).  Let he sit this year, take your lumps, have another draft & FA period then insert him into the starting lineup & let him lead.

  QB is the hardest position in football to learn.  Henne is the future, we all know that.  However, let him learn by watching & picking the spots to put him in where he most likely will have success.  Against prevent D & lesser teams late in the Yr.  Miami is not going to win this year, so why rush him.   You are not going to find out what you have with him regardless of how he performs.  Just like with Beck.  He is still in the growing/learning process of the NFL.

Be patience with Henne.

I said in an earlier post that I don't think he should come in until Week 10.  The schedule really softens up at that point.

Alex Smith isn't actually playing this season... That aside, you should know better than to point at one game's stats to prove this type of broad premise, because you run the risk of some devil's advocate saying:

"I'd like to ask you to look at today's stats for Peyton Manning (thrown to the wolves) and Chad Pennington (sitting, waiting, watching)."

I want to go on record that this is not me, although I like this guy's posts. Just don't go adding a WV logo to your profile.

I know Alex Smith isn't playing this season. And I was pointing that out more than the stats. That was kind of my point. He was thrown to the wolves and has sucked balls, and lost his job to a guy signed to be the 3rd string QB!


edited for typos...

It's interesting to compare Alex Smith to Aaron Rodgers. Everyone agreed (including the current Packers HC) that Smith was the better player out of college - and the player with the more potential. Smith was thrown to the wolves on a BAD team with a new system every year. Rodgers sat for 3 years and when he was asked to step up it was for a solid team with a solid line and some great receivers.

We'll never know if Smith could have been successful if given a situation like that of Rodgers (hell, Smith is only 24... someone might be willing to spend a few years "repairing" him to serve as backup, only for injuries to bite and give him another chance at bat).

What we do know is that, on average, first day quarterbacks that start in their first year have significantly worse careers than those who sit their first year. It's always possible to find the exceptions, but it's worth noting that nearly ALL exceptions have been quarterbacks that were asked to play for a good team.

Ask yourself this: Are the Miami Dolphins a good team, simply being hampered by inept quarterbacking? If so, it MIGHT be worth it to push Henne out early. If not, Henne should ride the pine.

Thank you. Finally someone see's the point I was trying to make!

Except those of us who lit candles and held prayer vigils for SF to draft "anyone" other than Alex Smith. Alex was a WAC conference fluke with small hands who only knew how to play out of the shotgun. Ask any of the locals, and they'll tell you that I was not a happy camper for a long time after that draft.

I just think...Hmm David Carr with the Houston Texans...