The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

Wow...... Palin aint fucking around.  She came out with barrels blazing.  She's already attacked Obama's plans several times. 

Man, Palin is wiping the floor with Biden. 

That was a poor answer about climate change.

Agreed. Also, she's not answering the questions as much as she is giving little speeches. She does "sound" very good, though.

i turned it off, i got tired of listening to those two. 

Biden's much slicker and sharper.  If he were before a judge, he'd probably win.  Palin's much more folksy.  I almost want to root for her.  As for the facts of their debating points, some of their rhetoric is dizzying, and much of the truth is lost in the spin.

Biden: Serbs, Croats, and Bosniacs.

BOSNIACS?

Sounds like an XFL team.

Oh Snap! Palin makin' fun of Biden!

She's starting to lose it now, the rambling is starting.  She made it a hour.....not too bad.  

I wish she would answer the questions being asked.  I'm finding it hard to follow along.   I'd like to watch this again and map the question asked the answer given. 

Too busy watching baseball to watch this debate... Besides, why should I bother with watching Palin read pre-prepared statements when the election is already over...


Enjoy the media carnival though...

Palin brought it on and won this debate. So much for the moron and idiot people were labeling her.

I definitely don't think that Palin won, but she didn't make any huge gaffes.

She was very good at deflecting questions that didn't play to her strength.

The goal for her was to not say anything really stupid, and in that, I think she succeeded.

 biden TROUNCED her in terms of actually answering the questions and providing a clear vision on his campaign's platform.  all his answers were concise, and to the point.  he answered every question, and pointed out the fundamental differences between each party's platforms.  he also had a clear answer for everything asked of him.  

palin did far better than could have been expected of her, but still danced around most of the questions and rambled a lot.  there really just wasn't any "meat" to her answers.

i can't believe some people think palin won the debate....but then again they're probably the same 10% that still think bush is a good president.  She just did far better than expected.  I mean, how can someone wiht no experience go up with a super-senator like Biden?  It's not even fair...you could tell it was child's play for him...he was holding back big time and keeping it simple.

I think the polls will show differently. I will say I did like some of Bidens answers and I have a new respect for him.

Do you really win in things like this or do you simply try not to do something that would cause you to lose?

As I said before.  The people watching most likely already know whom they are voting for.  The people that do not know, probably are not voting or will make up their mind as to which was the last 30 sec spot they listened too.

I am going to reserve commentary until I can digest full analysis from Frimp and Run-to-Win. I didn't watch that debate, so what they post on here will forge my opinion.

I watched the first 35 minutes....and I kept seeing Bush in drag when I saw Palin...All the sudden She looked surprised at herself...Yeah...Yeah I'm not a Dumb ass.

I agree with what someone on CNN was talking about...Sarah Palin did good forherslf..but didn't do anything for Mccain's campaign to the white house.....

I thought She was really well coached,and they told her if You get in trouble...Go to this..If you don't like the question...Change the subject to our talking points...Which mean she didn't answer the questions....

Anyone else Tired of hearing about Alaska? 75% of the time I feel like she's just a commercial for the Alaskan Chamber of Commerce...in Alaska....In Alaska...and her referring to being a hockey mom...Most of  Continental America can't relate to Hockey mom...

Damnit...I had 3 long paragraphs typed out, and hit post...And lost my signal...

So, lets try this again.

First off, the moderator was fair, which was a concern of mine. But, she did seem unprepared. Ironic that everyone was expecting Palin to be the one who was unprepared. But, she did a fair debate like the moderator last week.

Palin was on fire. She did what she was supposed to, in telling what she had to offer as VP. She stuck to her guns and morals, and stayed with her theme...Winning the war, and getting the government off our backs, and explaining why the Obama/Biden ticket would be bad..in surrendering in the war, and more government. She was also strong on the economy. She also did a good job in her case for her qualification. She also did a hell of a job quoting comments from Biden himself talking down about Obama, and saying that he would like to run with McCain. Biden underestimated Palin, and he paid for it. I noticed that toward the end, he was talking about getting knocked down, and getting back up again.

Like Simeon, I also came away with this with new respect for Biden. I felt bad for him when he was talking about his wife. He showed a human side that many people weren't even sure he had. Fairness. Biden kept talking about fairness when trying to justify jacking taxes up on the rich...who pay more taxes than anyone..back up to 39%, and that wasn't under Reagan like Biden said. I was one of the people against elections in Gaza, so I did agree with him there. Biden didn't hurt himself at all, but he didn't win either.


Well, not as detailed as what I typed before, but I didnt feel like typing it out again.

Do know he lied on some items?  Like how he voted "No" when he actually voted "Yes" on some items.

Palin was so prepared, she answered two questions verbatim with how she answered different questions on some conservative talk show this week (I forget which, a friend had sent it to me).

Mostly I was thinking there should be a VP debate drinking game, at least two of the drink words are "maverick" and "hockey". 

i always play the prez bush state of the union drinking game with "nucuelur" "terrists" and "freedom".  i never make it past the first 20 minutes

Most of America can't relate to the beauracratic eletist mentality of some of these polititians. And as far as talking about Alaska, why wouldn't she? She is after all the governor of Alaska. She couldn't very well talk (as much as some would have liked her to) about governing in New York. 

For a little bit of criticism of her, I do think she went to energy one too many times. I don't think she was sat down and coached on what to say when asked this, and where to go if asked that. I think if anyone tried to coach her like that, it would have been a train wreck.

Most of America...doesn't relate to Alaska....If I wanted to Live in Alaska,I'd moved there.....It makes her sound like All she cares about is Alaska....

Modified to add (I'm listening to the debate replay now)
I'd like to seen Biden alot more crisp...I think he came out with lots of Factual type info...Is it true,I think alot of B.S. But it sounds good....She just seemed to try to hammer the same points over,and over....

I have an extremely hard time seeing "Change" from the Mccain Palin ticket....I'm of the belief you can't teach an old dog new tricks....As a Vice president,Her Executive experience means nothing in the senate IMO..

Wow she refuses to answer questions, but instead talks about something unrelated to the questioned asked. Can this woman think for herself at all instead of just parroting sound bites unrelated to questions asked?
I am not surprised the great independant Simone thinks she won.

Palin faired better than  I thought she would, however I found her to be rambling and dancing around the questions. She steered everything over to what she knows. Honestly, she reminded me of one of those dolls where you pull the string and it spits out answers. This woman is not ready to be in the White House. I would be embarrased to have her meet with foreign leaders. Her "folksyness" is obnoxious and she sounds like a hick.

I think Biden did a good job, though at times he was condescending in my opinion. Which I like. I kind of liked the smirk on his face, too. He flubbed on a few items, though. I do think he killed Palin, though. Futhermore, he knows what he's talking about.

I found Gwen Ifill to be fair and balanced as I thought she would be. She's a professional. This is her job regardless of what she writes.

I'll have to go back and reread some of the transcripts because there were a few times when I was like WTF - for both sides - since everytime The Boy and I heard Maverick, Alaska, or hockey mom we drank.

One more thing....who the hell is this Joe Six Pack person she's talking about? I don't know anyone that I would call Joe Six Pack nor do I want him in the White House.

I liked the full frame Pics of both of them so I could check out that Hot pants suit.  ;)

That said she did way better then most gave her credit for. People weren't expecting much so in that light she did very well. But you can see Bidens 35 years of experience and her 5 weeks. Tina Fey should have plenty more Ammo..........

In case anyone needs the transcripts, they're here:  http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/02/debate.transcript/index.html

Joe six pack is a common term for the common man so unless Palin becomes president and her husband starts sleeping there you won't have to worry abou that. 

I think she was awsome but go figure the source.  I also don't think she avoided questions as much as wanted to finish the point they were on previously.  The problem with debates is the last person almost always comes off as correct even when they are wrong and Biden was wrong several times. 

From the Democrats for McCain web site
http://www.democratsformccain.com/

Joe Biden's 14 Lies

1. TAX VOTE: Biden said McCain voted “the exact same way” as Obama to increase taxes on Americans earning just $42,000, but McCain DID NOT VOTE THAT WAY.

2. AHMEDINIJAD MEETING: Joe Biden lied when he said that Barack Obama never said that he would sit down unconditionally with Mahmoud Ahmedinijad of Iran. Barack Obama did say specifically, and Joe Biden attacked him for it.

3. OFFSHORE OIL DRILLING: Biden said, “Drill we must.” But Biden has opposed offshore drilling and even compared offshore drilling to “raping” the Outer Continental Shelf.”

4. TROOP FUNDING: Joe Biden lied when he indicated that John McCain and Barack Obama voted the same way against funding the troops in the field. John McCain opposed a bill that included a timeline, that the President of the United States had already said he would veto regardless of it’s passage.

5. OPPOSING CLEAN COAL: Biden says he’s always been for clean coal, but he just told a voter that he is against clean coal and any new coal plants in America and has a record of voting against clean coal and coal in the U.S. Senate.

6. ALERNATIVE ENERGY VOTES: According to FactCheck.org, Biden is exaggerating and overstating John McCain’s record voting for alternative energy when he says he voted against it 23 times.

7. HEALTH INSURANCE: Biden falsely said McCain will raise taxes on people's health insurance coverage -- they get a tax credit to offset any tax hike. Independent fact checkers have confirmed this attack is false

8. OIL TAXES: Biden falsely said Palin supported a windfall profits tax in Alaska -- she reformed the state tax and revenue system, it's not a windfall profits tax.

9. AFGHANISTAN / GEN. MCKIERNAN COMMENTS: Biden said that top military commander in Iraq said the principles of the surge could not be applied to Afghanistan, but the commander of NATO's International Security Assistance Force Gen. David D. McKiernan said that there were principles of the surge strategy, including working with tribes, that could be applied in Afghanistan.

10. REGULATION: Biden falsely said McCain weakened regulation -- he actually called for more regulation on Fannie and Freddie.

11. IRAQ: When Joe Biden lied when he said that John McCain was “dead wrong on Iraq”, because Joe Biden shared the same vote to authorize the war and differed on the surge strategy where they John McCain has been proven right.

12. TAX INCREASES: Biden said Americans earning less than $250,000 wouldn’t see higher taxes, but the Obama-Biden tax plan would raise taxes on individuals making $200,000 or more.

13. BAILOUT: Biden said the economic rescue legislation matches the four principles that Obama laid out, but in reality it doesn’t meet two of the four principles that Obama outlined on Sept. 19, which were that it include an emergency economic stimulus package, and that it be part of “part of a globally coordinated effort with our partners in the G-20.”

14. REAGAN TAX RATES: Biden is wrong in saying that under Obama, Americans won't pay any more in taxes then they did under Reagan.

In fact they are rasing taxes to Clinton's admin which was much higher than Reagan's 28%.  I believe Clinton's was 36 or 37% where Obama wants increase it. 

In the end I think both parties felt good becuase neither screwed up. Sarah probably just solidified some wavering supporters but I don't know how she did with actual undecided voters.

I actually think Liberman could be worse for the Democrats than Palin.  He appears to be on the Ronald Reagan trail. His comments last night sounded an awful like Reagan when Ronnie said “I didn’t leave the Democratic Party. The party left me.”.   Liberman was preaching the gospel that this Democratic party isn't what it was 8 years ago under the Clintons. It is a dangerous imposter.  :o

Honestly, I don't know anyone that I would consider Joe Sixpack. I don't find anything common about Palin. Her life couldn't be further than they way most rational people live. (I don't know anyone that hunts, has 5 kids, a pregnant 17 year old, and is governor of a frozen tundra.)

Also, I urge anyone who wants to fact check the debate to go to a few other sources. CF posted one that is completely biased and only focuses on Biden. A fact checker should indeed show both of the debaters mistakes.

Here are a few. Take your pick:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95329925&ft=1&f=1003
http://cbs5.com/campaign08/VP.debate.fact.2.831600.html
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/

There are a lot more out there, too.

I think that fact checking needs a little fact checking as well.

Biden said McCain's no vote was against a proposal with a timeline. No news to report there.

Also I don't thin Obama ever specifically said he would meet Ahmadinejad. I could be mistaken, but he said he would meet leaders of rogue nations. As Biden pointed out last night, Ahmadinejad is not the military leader in Iran.

^^^ no he never said by anyone by name and I don't think she meant it that way either. I think she used a name for emphasis. 

Obviously you always have to consider the source. I read through those fact checking sites and there are some descrepancies.  Two conflict over whether McCain's tax credit for health care pays for insurance or will cost taxpayers.  They appear to use a lot of outside help so again personal feelings get inthe way.   

I agree with this. That's why I posted several of them and want peeps to form their own opinion.

(http://www.israelity.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/speak%20no%20evil.jpg)

What the hell is that supposed to mean?

Palin's "folksiness" is offputting and should be insulting to Americans.  We don't need you talking to us like we are a puppy or a 5 year old.  Want to be respected as an adult with a brain, then speak like an adult with a brain.  Would anyone of you go into a job interview and talk like that?

You don't know any common blue collar people?

This is very funny. It goes along with all of our threads where people are bashing sports people for being honest and not giving stereotyopical answers. I don't get it.

On one hand everyone says they hate the same ole political BS talk yet some are using Palin's "conversational speech" to bash her.  It would be easier  to just say I don't like her rather than make stuff up.     

Actually, outside of this board, not really. Everyone I know works in an office, is a business owner, musician, artist, etc. I'm sure if pressed i could think of 1 or 2, but I'm not quite sure.

Even if I did, what the hell does that have to do with being called "Joe SixPack"? Sounds deragatory to me.

   ::)

   Trying to find an excuse to bash.  Frankly I'd rather have someone talk to me like a normal person & not a polished politician.

Do you have people walk up to you and speak with a lot of "okey dokey"? I don't have a problem with someone who speaks like a person, I don't have a problem with someone intentionally laying on the cutsey talk. 

From wikipedia

Similar terms for the common family can be Mr. & Mrs. John Q. Public, Mr. & Mrs. John Q. Citizen, or Mr. & Mrs. John Q. Taxpayer

Roughly equivalent, but more pejorative, are the names Joe Six-pack, Joe Blow, and Joe Schmoe, implying a lower-class citizen (from the Yiddish schmo: simpleton, or possibly Hebrew sh'mo: (what's)-his-name).

I'm thinking, or at least have always thopught, that it refererred to the beer drinking blue collar workers.  You probably refer to all of them as Rednecks.  I do not think it is derogatory.

So she's referring to al of us as beer driniking blue collar workers? Isn't that alienating a good deal of voters? I still think it sounds rude.

I really don't refer to blue collar workers as anything. Redneck does not = blue collar.

I think what we're not doing a good job of getting across is why we have a problem with Palin's "golly-gee" attitude.

It's not the fact that she talks that way -- it's that she uses that kind of folksy talk to cover up or avoid answering questions.

It's great that you're in touch with the common man.  That's fine.  But I still expect that you understand and defend your positions intelligently.

Palin is spouting the same political BS that all politicians do.  But I feel that she's not as understanding of the issues, so she uses this down home attitude, which gives her a free pass.

People made fun of the way Ross Perot spoke as well.  Guess what? He was right about everything he predicted was going to happen.  I know alot of people that wish they had thier vote back and voted for him. 

Palin proved that she can look into the camera and not sound like a moron. She would probably do a good job of reading the news on TV. She brought up some valid points about Obama/Biden, but I was insulted by her blatant refusal to answer many questions. I don't think she helped McCain's campaign, but she didn't hurt it either. My thoughts on her performance are pretty well summed up by the diagram below:

(http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/41792/original.jpg)

Heh...I saw this flowchart yesterday and felt that it was a good representation of Palin, gosh-darnit.

  The funny thing is if she were a Dem instead, all the people hating on her would be loving her. 

Politics is hypocrisy at its best.

I'm a Republican.

Not true. I want the smartest, most competent people running the country. I don't have much to say about Mccain. I don't agree with him, but I respect him as a politician and don't think he is dumb. Palin comes across like a valley girl and doesn't seem to bright. She doesn't have the background or education of others.  If I thought she were bright, though I wouldn't vote for her since i don't like her politics, I would not proclaim her stupid and would just let it be.

  A valley girl?  Oh please.   You do not ascend to Gov of a state by being stupid, especially being an attractive woman.   

Tell me something.  What has having the brightest & most educated people running this country done for it?   Economy is a wreck, we are at war because of our past foreign policies which were put together by the smartest most educated people of our country, health care is out the roof.  We are being poisoned by our food supply.

So just tell me.  What good has it done for us to have these more well educated people done for us?

The thing is when you think you are the smartest most educated then you tend to not consider that you might be wrong.

I simply do not understand people who want higher taxes, socialize medicine & a weak backbone in standing up to the Ahmadinejads of the world.  You are not going to sit down with him as Obama says he will & reason with someone like him.

Just not gonna happen.

So... you're saying that George W. Bush is the brightest & most educated guy?

Uhm...you do realize we've been under the Republicans for the past almost 8 years. I don't consider Bush the best or the brightest and didn't vote for him. But, whatever.

Now, with that said, how are we being poisioned by our own food supply? I'm just curious on this since I've seen nothing.

The scent of elitism is thick in here.  

I knew that people wouldn't be able to resist taking this shot.  So predictable.   

The Democratic Congress sure hasn't done much in the past two years - and it's not like Executive or Judicial branches have been thwarting them. 

Government in general is full of highly educated people. Here's the really funny thing about this.  It was that simpleton Bush who warned about the housing crisis as far back as 2001.  It was the highly educated people who dismissed the warnings. 

Common sense is more important than book smarts, but integrity most important of all.

This is totally not true.

If the Dems ran Sarah Palin, I would be upset about it, for sure.

Democrats go the other way...we run boring egghead intellectuals most of the time.  In all the elections I've ever been old enough to remember, Dems stray very far from the "regular Joe".

bush became governor of texas and then president .. so i guess it worked out ok .. and he's hardly the best and brightest we've got to offer

2 years of democratic congress doesn't make up for the 14 years of republican congress and  the 8 years we got bushed ..



besides .. length in congress is a pet peeve of mine .. the republicans in 94 when they were first elected in after being the minority party for what .. 50+ years ? .. they actually accomplished stuff .. and did some decent stuff .. now .. not so much ..

i think we should have a 2 term .. term limit for congressmen .. there's no reason that there should be such a thing as a career politician .. politics shouldn't be a career .. it should be a civic duty .. like being in a jury.

What scares me about Sarah Palin..The Video of bad spirits being Excorsized  (For the lack of a better word for it...) Religious freak(the past y8 years of being guded by the bible,have turned me off by this)..How about ZERO National Politics expierence what so ever....She's only done this for 5 weeks....She seems to get easily rattled....I don't think she's Smart...I don't think she's anymore than a pretty face,for Boring ass old John Mccain....

Ain't that the truth!

Agreed.

Also, cut much of their "golden parachute" retirement.  A good way to save social security would be including them in it. 

Zero vs 143 days.  That is a huge difference.   ::)

Didn't both Clinton and Carter had zero experience in national politics?  Careful you don't pull a muscle while grabbing at straws.


Biden is nothing more than substance and experience for Obama's pretty face and speaking ability.   ;) 

Hmm Yet Clinton Ran for the house of Representatives A year.before running for governor,and Was elected in 1978.....And was a longtime Governor,and Thought about Running for President in 1987..Before the Gary Hart infidelity Scandal....


Ohh Yeah..I really want Jimmy Carter back in the White house... ::) But Jimmy Carter was govenr of Georgia for 4 years,and was a state Senator Prior to that....

Hmm Senator in Congress...Even for 143 days is alot more expierence...He at least held a state office for 7 years...prior to Congress..

Than a Governor for a low populas Governor for two years...Palin Mayor of a town of what 8,000? for 6 years....

Sorry..It doesn't add up for me...143 days> 40 days? Not too mention Obama's been running for election dealing with national issues WHILE running for President.....

Fuck you Grabbing at straws...It's my opinion,the one We're all allowed to have........How about you not being an asshole?

haven't you noticed he always will get personal when he has no logical argument?

The difference here is that Palin is not running for president.

  I'd say Bush is a whole lot smarter than anyone gives him credit for.  He was able to defeat two men who are perceived as being smarter. 
Maybe one of his greatest abilities is to get his opponents to underestimate him, by thinking he is not the brightest bulb in the pack.

  100% agree & that is why Bill Clinton won & the same reason Obama is capable of winning.

Amazing I've been saying that for two weeks...but it doesn't seem to matter,when I say it does it? :o

So Clinton's experience in national politics was losing a campaign?    ;)



Whatever floats your boat. 

When in Rome...  ;)

Look at you hanging from his balls!  That's quite an act you have going there!

"Grasping at straws" is personal?  Wow. 

Bill Clinton is considered an intellectual?  Really?  I'm starting to wonder if that label has more to do with party affiliation than intelligence.  Bush should run for something as a democrat so he too can be considered an intellectual. 

I guess it all depends on what the meaning of is is. 

He was a frickin' Rhodes Scholar dude! How uninformed are you?

Well let's see not exactly,but since you think you're so smart....Clinton took a job with the McGovern campaign and was assigned to lead McGovern's effort in Texas,While still at Yale,when George Mcgovern ran for president in 1972....Which Would give him a taste of National politics  ;) Regardless of your opinion,is more than Sarah Palin.... ;) But you like to change your position every post  Wink,Wink You betcha....

and yet again..I'm not the one who keeps harping on the experience point.....She's the only one of the foursome running towrds the with no National politics expierence....But yet again...Clinton and Carter have Nothing to do With Palin....

I wonder what part of the Rhodes Scholar program gave us "it depends on what the meaning of is is"? 

Bush graduated from Yale University and Harvard Business School.  Guess that automatically makes him brilliant, eh?  Surely you're not going to judge one man by credentials and the other by actions, are you?
(http://www.seksueelgeweld.nl/prikbord/images/smiles/rofl.gif)

So now running a campaign counts?  Are your "goal posts" ever going to stop moving?  If this keeps up you'll be counting his visit the White House while in junior high.  (http://www.seksueelgeweld.nl/prikbord/images/smiles/rofl.gif)

Who, according to some guy named Lil B, still isn't running for POTUS.   

Weak straw man argument.  (Or is it deflection?)  From No national politics experience, to losing a campaign, to running someone else's campaign in Texas ..... to visiting the White House. 


Really?  Who's this other Lil B guy? 



The comparison is still valid.  Other than running a campaign, losing a campaign, and a possible visit on a junior high field trip, Clinton had no federal politics experience either.  Why's it so hard to concede this one point?  It's like you're defending your religion or something.   
[/quote]

Being Part of a presidental campaign,and running for the HOR..Actually means you have to know something about national politics..and Being involved in national politics,does equal expierence..Where Sarah Palin until 5 weeks ago had no clue about ...What's so hard to figure out with that thought?

Well considering the VP Debate is over....This thread is going nowhere other than Arguing Palin
I just have to read your post,about Expierence...