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So one of the reasons the Attorney general is saying we need this permanent assualt weapon ban is because it will help slow the violence in Mexico!! WTF!!!??
I think these bans will do nothing to slow or stop the violence in ANOTHER FREAKING COUNTRY!!!  >:( We can't even prevent mexican people themselves from going back and forth across the border what makes them think they can stop weapons?
I'm not in the market to buy any more assault weapons, thank god I bought all mine last year, but I think it's bullshit I won't be able to if I do decide I want another one. What are your feelings on this topic?

Pardon my lack of gun knowledge, but what constitutes an assault weapon? Also, is the ban nationwide, and when will it go into effect?

Semi Automatic Riffle.  The Weapon has the ability to shoot several bullets at a time instead of just one.  Unfortunately I see 18-19 yr old kids getting these Mods done to their weapons at gun shows all the time. I don't think its necessary and I'm for the Ban. But there are so many on the market already it almost doesn't matter. But it will be nice to know you can't just walk in a shop and get your riffle modded anymore.

Defining assault weapons is a little more detailed... There are certain features that the weapon must contain two or more of, like a detachable clip, flash suppressor, certain types of pistol grips, folding stock, etc...

Assault weapons really aren't the big problem out there as far as guns go, as they account for a very minuscule percentage of overall gun crimes. This sort of legislation has no chance of having any real effect on the problems in mexico, because they'll simply get the guns somewhere else.

Personally, I am not a gun guy...way too noisy for my tastes.

Semi-automatic rifles able to accept detachable magazines and two or more of the following:
Folding stock
pistol grip
Bayonet mount
Flash suppressor, or threaded barrel designed to accommodate one
Grenade launcher (more precisely, a muzzle device which enables the launching or firing of rifle grenades)

Semi-automatic pistols with detachable magazines and two or more of the following:
Magazine that attaches outside the pistol grip
Threaded barrel to attach barrel extender, flash suppressor, handgrip, or suppressor
Barrel shroud that can be used as a hand-hold
Unloaded weight of 50 oz (1.4 kg) or more
A semi-automatic version of an automatic firearm

Semi-automatic shotguns with two or more of the following:
Folding or telescoping stock
Pistol grip
Fixed capacity of more than 5 rounds
Detachable magazine

That's the politicians criteria for one, but the real term, I believe, is any select fire rifle is considered an assualt rifle. Any rifle that can be switched from semi, to full auto, and even 3 shot bursts. ex. AKs, ARs, Uzis, etc.

And yes the ban will be nationwide and unlike the last one that ended in 2004 they want this one to be permanent. No idea when it will take effect, probably not for another year or two I say.

And what do you mean by MODs Defense? After market attachments like rails, stocks, forward grips, scopes, lasers? Or do you mean illegally making one full auto?

Next will be semi automatic handguns. They will find a way to ban everything eventually.

I am a gun owner and I really don't know what to think. Some weapons do deserve to be banned though. No one is going to outlaw guns altogether though.

It was originally geared towards weapons designed for war, not hunting such as the AK-47, M-16, etc. Bills have been introduced that would ban weapons that even looked like these weapons even though they are not the same.

forgive my ignorance but why do people need to own assault rifles?

I understand people wanting to own guns for defense or for hunting, and that's all fine, but an assault rifle, seems to me, is only useful in combat. 

Thats the Problem..........making it full Auto IS NOT illegal.  Its done all the time at gun shows in minutes.  No civilian has the need for a fully automatic weapon. Most Law enforcement as well . If you need to use a fully automatic weapon to Hunt , thats not really hunting.........its murder.

I don't know what kind of gun shows you go to but that seems highly unlikely. Every gun show I've been to has a heavy supply of officers inside and out. And vendors at these gun shows would lose their FFLs and face serious prison time if they were doing these types of things in a open area such as a gun show. So I say you saw something else and assumed it was being "modded". And besides aren't you a police officer? Arrest their asses next time!!  ;)

Well, if that is the case, I don't see the need for anyone to be walking around with one of these things unless they are in Baghdad. I agree with the ban, but I don't see how it is going to do anyone any good in Mexico??

Even though I don't care for guns, I still don't find "Why would someone need an assault weapon" a good enough reason to make them illegal.  A right to arms is a constitutional right, so you have to be careful when you ouotlaw stuff.

I'm a big fan of restrictions to gun ownership.  Slowing down the purchase process and putting in safety checks, gun licenses, etc. -- I'm all for it.

I'd have to see the assault weapon ban and what it would entail before I comment more.

If LE can have full auto rifles, than I want them too.

Here's the problem with this issue.

Let's take it to the extreme:  I'm assuming that we can all agree that regular citizens shouldn't be allowed to legally own an A-Bomb, given that they could afford it.

What's the legal reasoning behind that? 

My answer would be that the risk to society is too great (and puts their rights at risk) to allow the right of the individual to continue.

The problem is where do you draw the line?  -- grenades, rocket launchers, mounted machine guns, assault rifles, shotguns, handguns....  We need to stop being afraid of the slippery slope on both sides.  Anyone who says that they're going to ban everything eventually is a reactionary retard (Sorry, Frimp.)  We're not going to just make all guns illegal.  But that doesn't mean that there can't be a healthy debate as to which kinds of weapons can be legal and which ones can't.

Nope, but they are going to tax them & make you carry insurance yada yada yada.

Then they will have a huge fight on their hands. The NRA is a very powerful organization and the states make their own gun laws currently. In Florida it is actually against the law for the state to compile a list of gun owners. You don't have to register weapons in Florida so they have no idea who is making private sales. How do you think they will tax my guns if they don't know I have them?

Where did I say That?  Only a few have them and none are local agencies. No need at all for them. None.

Exactly........and you CAN make your gun fully auto with just a few Mods legally here. Whenever there is a show and we do the security we all shake our heads at what we see and cannot do anything about.

I own semi auto handguns and my wife asked me the same question.  The answer, in brutal truth, is that they are not needed in civilian life.  I needed them as an MP, I don't now.

The problem is that the Mexican gangs are getting their weapons primarily through American vendors and manufactures.  Which is the thought process behind the law.  If we can't make 'em and sell 'em, the Mexicans won't be able to come get 'em.

I think it's a great idea.  I mean look how well making drugs illegal has worked.  No one uses drugs anymore!

With that in mind we should come up with a list of things we should make illegal .... exercising, saving money, being faithful to your spouse, being devoted to your children, etc, etc, etc.

^LOL.

I'm just saying that in spirit I understand why they want to ban the automatic weapons in order to try to slow the flow of them into Mexico.  And what happens right across our border does effect us greatly, especially in the border towns that have seen massive increase in violence due to the gang wars going on.

But it won't stop these people from getting the weapons that they want.  What it will do is stop law following people from getting them.  That's all it will do.

Why would they get them from us when they can get AK's cheaper and in larger volumes? Even if this law passes the cartels will still have many other countries to acquire weapons from.

They do - but if you trust the reports on where those weapons are coming from, they are all American made and bought. 

And we both know how true that is.

Well - I am sure the issues along border towns are most likely American made hardware.  That is easy enough to believe.

And the government would never, and I mean EVER, use the media in an attempt to scare the public into letting them pass something into law! ;)

Let's say the entire country gets 100% of their firearms from the U.S.  Let's say we are successful in cutting off 100% of the flow of those arms to Mexico.  How long do you suppose it will take for a box of Uzi style weapons to go from Moscow to Cuba and into Mexico?  I say about a day.

I don't understand how EVERYONE comprehends this except liberal democrats.

^^^ They understand it, but by creating a ban you also create the possibility for stiffer punishments when criminals use these weapons. I thought you were all for more punishment of criminals.

Phish is right.  It's not that liberals don't understand that criminals will still get what they want.  It might just make it harder for them, while at the same time, assault weapons in the hands of law abiding citizens doesn't provide any advantage either.

I don't expect the good guys to fend off the bad guys in a gun fight.

I'm not arguing for or against the bill -- just against the point that a ban would be ineffective.

There's no need to ban weapons to create stiffer penalties when they're used illegally. 

?

Can you elaborate on this?

Of course it isn't necessary but it is a vehicle for the punishmets you crave so dearly. Extra charges and punishment for the banned weapon on top of the already existing punishment for use of a weapon.

[quote author=MaineDolFan link=topic=14058.msg158560#msg158560 
I think it's a great idea.  I mean look how well making drugs illegal has worked.  No one uses drugs anymore!
[/quote]

Dumb statement.  Do you see it outside everywhere you walk?  Its illegal and becuase so people are held accountable if need be.

Sure.  I don't think a realistic form of crime prevention is to have citizens keeping the peace.  I prefer an efficient police force for that.

I think that when you're making a pro and con list of assault weapons, that "good people will have assault weapons too" isn't a pro.  Neither is it a con.

^^^

Ahh!  All this time I thought making drugs illegal would be so people wouldn't DO THEM!  I didn't realize it was so that people wouldn't do them in plain sight!  Gotcha!  Yep, MY comment sure was dumb!  ::)

Okay, I didn't know if you meant citizens or law enforcement when you said "good guys".

I think we agree that citizens are not expected to outgun the bad guys, and law enforcement is expected to outgun the bad guys.

^^ Yes, I think we can.

Although I don't think stronger weapons for law enforcement is the answer.  I don't object to them having them, but I don't see weakness in firefights being the issue.

Its the states that are doing it.  Ill right now & trying to pass that if you own a gun you have to carry 100K in insurance.

I wonder how many criminals will go straight in Illinois because they can't afford the insurance on their piece?

Well then I guess its a good thing I never plan to move to Illinois.

I think most people are mistaking what is available to citizens vs. law enforcement/ military. All assault rifles sold to civilians in the US w/o a Class 3 weapons license are semi auto ONLY. Law enforcement/ military and Class 3 license holders have the right to own Full auto/ 3 burst rifles. Rifles like these are not sold at Bass Pro and very rarely are they sold in guns shops. Most fully automatic rifles start at about $7,000, much more now I bet, and you must call Colt or Bushmaster or whatever manufacturer you choose directly. I also believe most only deal with PDs or military. So these "assault rifles" as they call them are basically a Ruger 10/22 with a larger caliber bullet and a bigger round capacity. So should we also ban auto loading 22s?

 And as for converting one to full auto it's not as easy as changing out a spring or taking it to a gun show table. There are a few components removed from a military rifle when it is made into a semi auto civilian version and unless you have a source for a full auto sear and the other parts that are missing it can't be done. Well can't be done safely and they'll more than likely have a out of battery primer strike that could possibly take care of their illegal shooting days. And if anyone says they see these kids on youtube firing a full auto rifle most of those videos are using a technique called bump firing.

And who ever mentioned grenades and an A bomb that's apples to oranges man, come on!! Those are destrcutive devices and I believe no one can own them. But there are always ways to get things like grenades, bring back from the military for example.     

Hey what do you want me to say? This is America. People here are free to do almost anything they like.  Lets face it , If you want to do drugs and whatever else , no one is really gonna be able to stop you.  The Constitution, protects people from search and seizure and the like.  So with what we have to work with to make it a Free and as best we can.........a fair country we CONTROL, the drug use in the country.  Basically..........if you want to use, go right the fuck ahead. Millions of little Crack dens and shitholes to go. But effect the people that don't want it, try to strap a vein or smoke a joint outside of a Apartment building , office door or most places where people gather to smoke ciggs.........and you will get hammered.  Is this arrangement perfect? No. Nothing really is.  But it keeps the people who don't want to deal with it reasonably safe and secure and those that do at bay with their disease.

I know people love to spout off how we are losing the war on drugs ...........thing is people who say that are only looking at one angle and usually have an agenda. Its very much under control.

  Only takes one before the rest start to fall in line with the same thought process.  It will be coming to a state near you soon.

NEVER IN TEXAS!!!! Yee Haw!!  ;)

I think it depends on the state you live in. There are dry counties all over this country and I relly don't see them expanding. Lets be realistic about this.

Dry counties compare to guns?  Ok.

That was me.  I'm not suggesting that a rocket launcher is in the same league as a gun at all.  I'm only using those to show that there is a scale of "arms" from one spectrum to another.  Where we choose to draw the line seems arbitrary.  But it's hard to find someone who thinks that there shouldn't be a line at all.

In this case it certainly does. If you think Florida is going to start taxing guns because it is being considered in Illinois why wouldn't your theory be the same for alcohol use?

Politicians do not want you alcohol.  They want your guns & since they have not been able to simply remove them, then start costing them out of owners hands.  Tax them & make them carry insurance.

I'm not saying every state.  However, more will come if it works.