The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

Is there a reason that MMA is ignored by shows like PTI.  They cover horseracing, boxing, MLS and even the WNBA.  Why not MMA?  It's incredibly popular and growing.  Matchups make a big difference, so there is plenty of room for pre-fight conversation.  There are title fights all the time, but it's never talked about.  What gives?

They have talked about it, but (as to shows like PTI) don't seem to care for it much. Kornheiser and Wilbon only seem to talk about it when something strange happens; Le Batard is the only one that really seems to be into it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBsoJ-u3JzQ (at 1:50)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLi3dJxzaqM&feature=related (general comments on MMA)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLi3dJxzaqM&feature=related (Kimbo interview)

I've seen these clips I think, when they originally aired.  They aren't really talking about matches though....they're more just asking if it's worth talking about.  Also, they don't even talk about UFC.  They talked about EliteXC, which is like covering the XFL instead of the NFL.

It's not just a one time thing, either.  There are big fights every month.  I wonder why they don't do break downs/predictions/whatever, like they do for everything else -- even horse racing.

because less people care about MMA than you think.  Its a niche market.

I have to agree with Brian...if they started talking MMA on PTI or the other mainstream shows, I'd be a lot more likely to just change the channel.

espn does not carry the mma fights so they shuffle it to the back of the deck, just like they did when they stopped broadcasting NHL games.

Exactly.

Do y'all think they should talk about WWE?

maybe we should have PTI talk about the World Series of Poker too.  I hear a lot of people follow that.  And Motocross racing.  And Street Luge.

The world series of poker doesn't really have matchups that are foreseeable.  ...and it's not broadcast live, either.  I don't think that a lot of people watch motocross racing or street luge.  ...maybe I'm wrong.

Didn't an MMA fight on CBS get more viewers than the Stanley Cup finals at one point?

I have a lot of friends that follow MMA.  Perhaps that's why it's more on my mind than most.  On the other hand, I don't know anyone (in my whole life actually) that has followed the WNBA.  I don't know anyone who follows tennis, either.  ...or horseracing.

It's just weird to me that one of these is written off.  Is MMA really that niche?  The UFC game that came out for the 360 and PS3 sold over a million units in the first month...was by far the number one game on any system.  Those are really big numbers.

I know one person that follows MMA.  Dave Gray.  I know FAR more people that follow NHL hockey than MMA.

[wanna start up that discussion again?]

I think it really comes down to your generation, man. I would have to say the exact inverse for mine.

Not saying your that much older than me, but it is fairly huge in college age viewer-ship.

I'm not saying MMA is more popular than hockey.

I'm saying that it sometimes draws more than hockey.  I'm also saying that it seems to be more popular than horse racing and the WNBA.

I know a lot more MMA fighters than current hockey players( this used to be different), and among most men I have been around under the age of 35 especially, MMA is a lot bigger than hockey.
Remember unlike all these other sports MMA fights are outlawed in a lot of states, which hinders coverage too.
How popular were any of the major sport leagues in the first 20 years compared to now? Now imagine if attendance and coverage were limited by the fact they were outlawed in a lot of places.

I think that the president of the UFC, Dana White, is a bafoon, in terms of a commissioner-type.  He's just not a good, professional face for a sports organization.  He talks like a jock and he openly curses and comes across like one of the fighters, not management.  He's too much Vince McMahon and not enough Roger Goodell. 

We're not exactly old. Brian's 32, I'm 30. Give me hockey every day of the week and twice on Sunday's over MMA

The entire Kimbo Slice debacle proved that MMA was purely sports-entertainment, despite actual fighting. I have a whole rant here from about a year ago or so about how the MMA sucks and is not entertaining.

Problems with MMA:

1. The commissioner is exactly what Dave described. It's not "cool" to be a jock when you're in charge.
2. It's not entertaining - it's not entertaining to watch two dudes roman-grecko grapple and wrestle on a mat with a couple of punches and kicks thrown in. The WWE already has the sports-entertainment thing locked down.
3. It lacks major sponsorship (probably due to #'s 1 and 2). Even the WWE gets major sponsors.
4. It's too "hardcore" and is nowhere near mainstream enough to warrant news coverage.
5. Grand Theft Auto was one of the highest video game sellers, ever. Did it get it's own SportsCenter segment?
6. Finally, the entire Kimbo Slice debacle forever ruined what little chance the MMA had to begin with. A no-talent bum hack jabrone off the streets is touted as the Lebron James of his "sport", only to be destroyed in 1 minute by another no-talent bum hack jabrone off the streets. I can't just show up and beat Kobe Bryant, or hit a homerun off of Roger Clemens off the streets. The entire MMA set itself up for a big crash after backing this no-talent hack and riding the little wave of popularity that it brought along. And, I don't know the difference between MMA, CBS, UFC...they are all the same to me and 99% of everyone else.

I wasn't saying you two are old at all. I'm 20. My point was that people born in the late 80's-early 90's are going to have different watching habits than late 70's- early 80's. I consider it different generations for sure.

MMA is huge with people my age. You can point to that its a violent sport so a younger audience will be attracted. But I would much rather point to the fact that it's a newer sport. I can remember when Hockey was relevant but I didn't have a ton of years to get attached to it. Mario Lemieux feels like a fading childhood memory.

The Kimbo Slice thing goes against your argument.  He lost to a more veteran opponent.  And in his first fight, they paired him up with a jabrone.  First off, that wasn't even UFC.  I would be like trying to judge football by the "he hate me" bit in the XFL.  Kimbo is a good fighter, though.  He will have to learn more about the ground game or else he's going to get rocked in the UFC.


I think it's definitely entertaining.  It's much more entertaining than most other sports, that's for sure.  I think it's just a matter of time before it gets more coverage. 

Scary I think Jtex hit it on the head...

I think it's a Niche,major sports are trying to take more safety precautions,making it more appealing,less violent....

Why didn't kick boxing explode here? It's had plenty of time....I think it appeals to fans of wrestling...I think as with wrestling,your audience as they get older get less interested....How many of use were wrestling fans as kids,but aren't anymore?

I also think a massive killer,I know Versus,and Showtime have MMA things....But alot of it is Pay per view....

This perception is factually incorrect.  The UFC has done more in the past decade to make their sport safer and more appealing than all major sports combined.  They added many rules, instituted different time limits to encourage action, added in no-contents, gave gloves to fighters to protect hands, disallowed things like kicks to the head on the ground, etc.

Wrestling is not a sport.  It's fake.  Compare this to boxing, if anything.  This is boxing, but you can use your feet and grab.  ...it's safer than boxing, in my opinion.  You don't have long term bludgeoning.  As soon as someone starts getting whipped, the fight is over.  In boxing, they prop you up and you keep going.

Society,is pussing out,and trending to less violence....MMA is nothing but violence....is the point I was making...

I gotcha.

But I would also disagree on that point as well.  I think that society is actually trending towards violence.

MMA in 5 years will be where X Games is now.  It is the same thing

^^ No chance.

OK, 10 years?

Dave if you want to talk MMA, there is a site that has monthly threads that I go to, but it isn't an MMA board.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/79/edf/edf-july-mma-thread-522755/#post11589164 july

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/79/edf/edf-june-mma-thread-498531-post11577333/#post11577333  june

I'll probably start posting MMA threads here and see if there is interest.  I don't know enough about a lot of the fighters yet to talk about it intelligently. 

I'll check out your links.

^^^ I think that's the problem with MMA in general.  They don't get a whole lot of exposure so nobody knows much about anybody not named Kimbo Slice or Chuck LaDell. 

Kimbo was and continues to be a joke. CBS's wanna be fight thing brought him in because of all the idiots who watched his brawls against untrained fighters and thought he would kick ass. He is lacking all skills and is too old to achieve a level of expertise that would allow him to seriously contend.
What is truly sad is that this so called "niche" sport has the toughest standards on performance enhancing drugs. They have suspended and taken away titles from those who have been caught cheating. MLB could take a lesson from them.
I does not surprise me that you would rant about something you know little about, and compare it to something totally unrelated.

The one thing I'd like the UFC to do is make it more accessible through network TV, rather than going all PPV and alienating a big chunk of audience.

I still watch WEC, which I like just as much.  Those little guys fight like crazy.  My favorite fighter right now is Uriah Faber.  But it'd be great to see regularly scheduled bouts every single week in a specific time slot, with a defined ladder of contenders.

yea urijah is fun to watch.  i dont know if he will ever be able to beat mike brown though. Kimbo is going to be on UFC's the ultimate fighter show.  He will most likely be exposed as a hack.

Faber is a stud. I was hoping the rematch would be better after watching Faber get caught in the first fight. Too bad he broke his hand, as I believe he can beat Brown. These two could have a great rivalry ala Ali v Frazier.

I hope they catch on and get a deal.  I doubt seriously that it will be a network but even if they get a deal with a basic cable channel ie Spike TV it would do a lot for them. 

I think that not only can he beat Brown, but would've without the broken hand.  In Faber/Brown II, Urijah had Brown in some pretty severe chokes on more than one occasion, but with the broken hand, he didn't have the grip to apply enough pressure to close the deal. 

They went toe to toe for 5 rounds and the guy's hand was broken in the first round.  He was stuck using only elbows.  Here's the x-ray of his right hand after the fight:
(http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/articlefiles/8932-Faber_11571232.jpg)

I don't know.  Kimbo is a beast with fists; he's just inexperienced with dealing with the ground game and submissions.  Once he gets a good trainer and learns more about the different techniques, he could be dangerous.  He reminds me of Butterbean, kinda.

i think the answer to your original question is:

because espn doesn't have any self interest in promoting MMA

if they had a contract to show MMA, they'd be talking about it 24-7 on sportscenter

just like they hype up the big 10 vs. the sec on espn .. because abc has a big 10 deal .. even though everyone knows the SEC is the better more competitive conference

Where? I have yet to see any real striking skills much above a street brawler.

The fact that he's a street brawler doesn't discount his abilities.  He's rough around the edges.  Even in his EliteXC fights, he showed that he can fight standing up -- it's the ground that gives him trouble.

...and on top of that, he's got the physical gifts.  The guy is pretty large and strong.

I think that this is the right answer.  I wonder why ESPN and UFC don't snuggle up.  It's not like ESPN has more compelling programming in every slot.  They have room for the dog show and spelling bee and bass fishing and crap like that.

The last fight I saw him in, against a smaller and trained opponent, ended less than a minute in the first round with him cowering defensless while the other guy was hitting him. It never went to the ground.
He is a taller, black version of Tank Abbott. All power and brawling, and not much else.

Kimbo doesn't have much power at all though.  He just looks really strong, but he has poor form when he punches.  Look at his fight against james thompson.  the guy had been knocked out in the first round in 4 out his last 8 fights. It took kimbo 3 rounds before getting a bullshit stoppage.

^^I agree 100%.  Strength, of course, plays a lot into how effective your strikes are.  But so much more of that is form and training.  The hardest punches I've ever taken were from guys that were 50-60 pounds lighter than I am but they have amazing form and knew where to draw their strength.

That said - you put Slice into the ring with someone like Brock Lesner and it wouldn't be pretty.  Lesner would end that fight in under one minute.

I agree with you.  Kimbo is unpolished, but if he gets the training, he can put his physical talents to good use.  ...that's all I'm saying.

(and I think he's a better stand-up striker than either of you are giving him credit for.  ....but we'll see.)

If Lesnar had a reason to finish the match in under 20 seconds. I would happily lay odds that he could do it.

I think the guy has a lot of power.  I don't think he's a bad striker.

Exactly. It takes years of practice to become a great striker. He has been compensating with his strength for years, and now has to be retaught. He is not a spring chicken anymore as he is approaching his 36th birthday too. This guy is no Randy Couture who can define mother nature. I think there are too many younger, and more talented heavyweights coming down the pipeline to waste bouts on a brawler who is rapidly approching his experation date for the sport.

As a person who has studied the arts for 30+ years and has been involved in MMA fighting on a local level for a long time...I was very upset by Lesner's actions. 

This is a brutal sport.  It's BRUTAL and violent.  You HAVE to maintain a level of humanity about yourself or someone could literally get killed.  It's one thing to "go" until the ref gets in the middle.  That's your job.  You finish it.  But Lesner's opponent was clearly hurt and to mock him after was shocking.  Mir was respectful in a loss.

The guy needs to get his ass whipped.  I don't care whether he loses or not, but someone needs to put a hurting on the guy for three rounds. 

I actually think Fedor Emelianenko might be the guy that could put a hurting on Lesner.  Fedor's training will make it hard for Lesner to get him on the ground and force him to fight from his feet.  That would be the great equalizer.  Tsuyoshi Kohsaka might be someone that could go into the third with Lesner as well.

An interesting name to put into the ring with Lesner would be Bobby Lashley.  His is actually bigger than Lesner, which is amazing in itself.  His amateur wrestling back ground would somewhat offset Lesner's ground attack. 

Fight fans that aren't familiar with Lashley yet...here is what the dude looks like:

(http://fightticker.com/files/images/bobbylashley.jpg)

Lashley used to wrestle but I haven't watched WWE in about 3 years so who knows anymore. 

Also the whole Brock Lesnar incident got it plenty of coverage, it's been all over yahoo but the fight highlights were on ESPN and ESPN News.

This is what you get when you bring in people like Lesner or Kimbo. They are used to their whole carrers being based on a lot of hype.
I want to see a Fedor.Lesner match, and I think after the asinine behavior exhibited by Lesner and the backlash, White will work even harder to make it happen.
As too JTex uninformed ratnings. 1.5 million pay per views were bought for UFC 100, which is on par with some of the great boxing matches over the years, and much more than WWE.

I guess Lesner was pretty apologetic after he calmed down.  From what I understand he even went to Mir and the two of them talked for almost 90 minutes.  They got along so well that Mir gave Lesner tips of how he telegraphs some movement.  But, again, Mir is a class act.

I can certainly understand a heat of the moment thing.  I've actually heard that Lesner is a pretty decent guy away from the hype. 

I still think Lesner needs to be brought down a notch.

I think it was a bit too over the top, but from a strictly-business perspective, you really can't argue with the strategy of setting yourself up as the bad-ass villain for this sort of thing...

^^To an extent.  The fringe audience for this sport already has too many perceptions between it and professional wrestling.  MOST of these guys are very classy before and after fights.  Flap your gums leading up to it but show some respect after the fight - at least to the guy you just beat.  His actions set the sport back a little.  "The Rock" would have laughed at "The Undertaker" after beating him during a WWE match.  After these matches the guys usually hug and congratulate each other on a hard fought battle.

While I do see how some uninformed or just ignorant people cannot see the difference between WWE and MMA, I would not call a sport that has grown to 1.5 million pay per view subscriptions as "fringe". That is serious numbers.
Man I wish they would get Fedor into the stable and get him fighting again.

I don't think he was calling it a fringe sport. He was referring to what most people would call the casual fan when he used the word fringe I think.

I don't put much into this 1.5M PPV audience though since the only real way to catch these big UFC fights is on PPV. Put any other sport in this situation for example football and see how many people pay for the Super Bowl. I guarantee it would be much larger.

how many people pay for NFL sunday ticket .. that's PPV football if i've ever seen it

I'm not sure but I don't think that is an apples and apples comparison. The first reason is the Sunday Ticket is only available on one carrier. Another reason is because there are several other NFL games on during the same time. If you want live UFC fights you have to get PPV, you don't have to in order to watch several football games in a week. I think the only way to make it a more even comparison is to wait until a big event such as the playoffs and make them only available on PPV which isn't going to happen anytime soon.

Most entities that resort to PPV as their primary media do so because the amount of money they are able to make through sponsorships and commercial ad revenue on mainstream broadcast TV is too small for them to be profitable.  Whether or not MMA fits this mold or not is debatable, but that's generally been the case for PPV usage in the past.

Comparing MMA's appeal in any way to that of the NFL, NBA or MLB seems fairly ridiculous though. It'd be like a skateboard company comparing itself to Chevrolet because they both have wheels.

MMA is better than the totally staged wrestling crap that's out there, no doubt about it...but I'd much rather watch a good heavyweight boxing match (oh where, oh where have they gone?) than an MMA brawl any time.

This number is being compared to pvp sales for championship boxing matches, which you can only see by paying, so it is an apples to apples comparison.

So Fedor and his management are retarded and it looks like we will never see Fedor compete against the best in the world. Probably better for him, he built his record beating hacks in japan and UFC has beens and I think he will get torn apart in the UFC.  I don't really like Lesnar that much, but I think he would wipe the floor with Fedor.  He is just too strong. 

Look at Fedors highlights http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXoOcP20hjU&feature=fvw all he does is fight fat fuckers or weak pussys.  They just lay on the ground and let fedor do whatever he wants to them.

HAHA, your bias is hilarious.