The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

Almost as if on cue to support my opinion that Papelbon is a good pitcher and not elite.  He came into the game last night sporting a two run lead against the AAA Oakland A's.

With the tying run on second and the go ahead run on 1st, Papelbon notched the save.  After allowing a run to make the game 5-4, giving up two more hits and walking yet another batter. 

2 hits, 1 walk, a run.  In one inning.  Against the A's, for God's sake. 

Closers are a dime a dozen, they literally come out of nowhere and then fade back to where they have come.  Sometimes they go on to start and do well.  Look at Derek Lowe.  With Bard on the horizon it might be time to start thinking about switching the amazing four pitch Papelbon back into the rotation. 

And this guy wants to be paid as the top closer in the game?

I think Papelbon is an outstanding closer who sometimes trips on his own head... Francisco Liriano is another outstanding pitcher who does the same thing. You just wish they could keep that shit straight between the ears so we could consistently see them pitch to their max potential.

I swear, Maine...I tried to text you last night when Paps had the bases loaded and full count in the 9th. I had "Now we're having fun!" on my screen...and then I accidentally cleared it before it could go out.

;D

I caught the live break in lastnight on MLB network with the Bases loaded....My fantasty team had Jones on third,and Markakis on second I'm thinking come on one bad pitch,one bad pitch gets me two more runs...Scott,and Mora down swinging....

I was watching it at Ale House saying "yet another eventful Papelbon outing"

It's frustrating.

The one key thing though is that the guy is talented enough to get out of a bases loaded jam with no outs.  Just wish he wouldn't load them in the first place!

It's not nice to screw up my win when I have the bright idea of spot starting Bucholtz this week.

Hey...imagine that!

Another blown save by Papelbon.  And people around the country think this guy is great?

Before ANYONE says a thing about the two throwing errors, let me cut you off at the pass:

Papelbon started the inning by issuing a walk.  He then allowed a double, which scored the runner he walked, and closed the gap to a two run lead.  BOTH throwing errors the runner would have reached safely anyway.  BOTH runners ended up stealing 2nd or 3rd, Papelbon didn't even make ONE THROW to attempt to hold the runner.  THREE stolen bases on one inning is unacceptable, he didn't even GLANCE at the men on base.

Two outs, two run lead and facing a rookie looking for his first big league hit.  Papelbon folded like a chair.  Against the freaking A's?

Grrrr.

Daniel Bard time, baby.  It's Daniel Bard time.

My bio-dad and I were talking yesterday and said the only guy that the Jays would want for Doc that is off-limits is Bard.

Send him down here...the Marlins will give you Leo Nunez straight up.

if papelbon had a better defense behind him .. like the marlins for example .. he might have held on to the save

Priceless...

I didn't realize the Marlins defense was so great that they are able to take away basehits?  Even if Green's throws on both plays were spot on there is the little matter of the runner's foot hitting the bag two steps ahead of where the throw is.

That said - last night is a classic example of EXACTLY what I've been saying.  Make a couple sloppy plays and Papelbon can't hold his shit together.  Two run lead.  Two outs.  Rookie batter at the plate with a 1-2 count...and you blow the save?

Nick Green really needs to go.  A high school short stop knows better to do what he did.  TWO TIMES!  You aren't going to make that throw, Nick.  And the guy running down the base path is the fastest guy on the A's squad.

You gobble that ball up and hold the runner on at 3rd.  And then you hope your elite, world beating, greatest closer of all time can nail down one more out with runners on 1st and 3rd.

At least the blame is being pointed at the right player now... How dare Nick Green trash Pap's stat line! ;)

^You're so blinded by Papelbon it's almost comical!  I forgot that Green issued the leadoff walk and the following basehits.  I also forgot it was Nick Green that allowed three stolen bases in the top of the 9th.  Man.  Green should have screamed "look the runner over, Pap!  Look the runner over!"

Maine...you need to untwist those knickers a full two turns, as I've been busting on you solely for the sake of busting on you since you started this latest Paps-smear. I'm blinded by nothing but statistical truth...I just enjoy giving you grief when you do your sandlot Chicken Little impression.

The 9th inning is falling...the 9th inning is falling!! ;D

It is!  A lot!

If Papelbon can't hold a three run lead against clowns like the O's and A's...how do you suppose that will translate into late September games against the Rays and Yankees?

You can "bust me up" all you want and think I'm Chicken Little - but let me ask you a yes or no question:  If you were a Boston fan would you have 100% confidence in turning the ball over to Papelbon with a 1 run lead in a big game 100% of the time? 

If I were a Boston fan, I would be so happy that I wasn't a Padres or Nats fan that I might just smile and keep my mouth shut.

Just sayin'...

I'll take that as a no.

Thanks!

:)

Maine, there aren't but a handful of closers EVER that I feel would give me a 100% comfort zone 100% of the time he's in there. Perfection is a beautiful carrot to chase, but don't starve yourself while waiting for your salad.

There aren't 5 closers in baseball that I would trade Paps straight up for right now...even given his recent struggles.

In order for Papelbon to be truly "elite" (which he clearly is not), you shoud have zero issues with him taking the ball 100% of the time for a one run save.  That is why he is a closer making 6 million a year.

If you wouldn't be comfortable handing the ball to him 100% of the time to protect a one run lead in a big game you've answered my question.  Facts are facts, this season alone he is closing in on 40 hits issued to go along with his 20 walks, 3 losses and 3 blown saves.  He is a high wire act.  Come late September I am not sure how I feel about him on the bump with a one run lead...the Sox clinging to a half game division lead...and Damon, Cano and Jeter coming to plate.  If he can't keep the triple-A A's off the base paths, what the hell will a good hitter do to him this season?

Joe Nathan for Papelbon, straight up?  Done.  Done, done, done.  I'll walk to Minnesota and carry Joe back to Boston.

I've seen a lot of Papelbon giving out leadoff walks.  A good closer should NEVER walk anyone.  An elite closer should almost never even fall behind in the count.

I agree that he's scary but the real question is, why do they continue to roll him out to save the game?

In other news, Jeremy Hermida has 75 straight games without an error.  Just sayin'

He is the best option they have right now, in their opinion. 

I would like to see Bard moved into that position.  Dude pounds you down and in with 100mph heat and then drops a 75 mph 11/5 curve on you.  It's sick. 

To the people who say "he is only a rookie!  Why put him in that position?"  I'll counter with this:  Papelbon was (technically) a rookie when he became the team's closer as well.

Closers come and go.  Here today, gone tomorrow.  Get what you can while you can and move on. 

Some stick around for a while (Mariano, Trevor, Lee Smith, etc...), and those are the ones that I think achieve truly elite status. I still think Paps is one of the top closers in baseball...he just needs to get his head right.

^^He has elite stuff, I grant you that.  But if you're operating under a "once is a mistake, twice is a fluke, three times is a pattern" way of thinking...something is very off / pattern. 

When he's on he's the best in the game.  Plain and simple.  When he's not "on" he's average at best.  This year, despite the sparkling ERA, he's been fairly average.