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Jordan has always struck me as a jerk-off.  Maybe that is coloring my perception of his statements.

I just find him to be full of crap.  He wouldn't have looked to play with Magic and Bird because he didn't have to.  Pippen was not some 2nd rate role-player.  He is one of the NBA's 50 greatest players.  He didn't have to go look for another superstar, because he was already playing with one -- and had plenty of other help than that, as well.

...the same with Magic and Bird.

Every championship team has at least 2 (and usually 3-4) guys that make it all happen.  Who was Lebon's number 2?

Also, Jordan, Bird, and Magic played in 3 MAJOR sports cities -- not Cleveland.

^^^ I think your dislike of Jordon is coloring your perception.  Jorden didn't really say much.  He said he never considered doing what Lebron did but hey, times are different now.

On the other hand Barkley and others are the ones being critical of Lebron.

I am happen to think Lebron is an asshole and more of an attention loving whore than Favre and Ochocinco combined.  I also have great respect for Jorden.  But my dislike of Lebron and respect for Jorden doesn't mean Jorden shares my views on Lebron, so don't attribute them to him. 

I'm not even upset that Jordan is critical of Lebron (he's really not -- he was asked a question.)  But I think that Jordan (and Barkley and many sports writers) are just being dishonest with the history of the situation.  None of these superstars were by themselves.  Each one had other superstars with them.  They were fortunate enough to have people join them.

But it's not like they did it alone and Lebron didn't.  It just didn't happen that way, and people are rewriting history to say that they did. 

Do you realize that Jordan was swept in 86 and 87 by the celtics. I love pippen, but he was the one who got migranes when the pistons kept pounding him. I agree with Jordan. The all time greats have a fierce competiveness about them. The great players feel nobody can beat them. Jordan always felt he was the best and he would eventually break thru the pistons and any other team in his way.

When Isiah Thomas kept losing to the celtics he never wanted to join Larry, he wanted to beat him. No matter how many times Patrick Ewing or Reggie miller lossed to Jordan, the mindset was to keep plugging until they eventually broke thru. Barkley would never think of teaming up with Jordan. These guys had a competitive fire that burned in them, because the wanted to be the man.

Lebron wants to carry this persona as the King and the chosen one. Well act like a king. Don't run from the pressure and the responsibility that goes along with being a king. By joining Miami he can no longer be mentioned in the same breath as Kobe, MJ, Bird, or Magic. If you ask me that's a good thing. I'm glad he gave up the number 23, because lebron dosent realize what that number symbolizes. Greatness is what it symbolizes. Thank you Jordan for speaking the truth.

You love Pippen but....


BUT HE WAS ONE OF THE 50 GREATEST NBA PLAYERS OF ALL TIME!

Bird (who I love) played with McHale and Parrish.
Kobe played with Shaq and Gasol.

Parish and mchale joined bird thru trades. Kobe was drafted when shaq was already there. And gasol was acquired thru a trade as well. The point is when bird, Jordan, and Kobe won titles you knew they were the catalyst behind them winning. Go look
at those Celtic teams, bird set the tone and the others followed. Same with Kobe, Jordan, and magic, and isiah.

Jordan's point is those players back then never wanted to join forces, they wanted to kill and beat each other. That's what made the rivalry's back then so great. Everyone had to get thru somebody to reach their goal. Nothing was handed or given to them, it was earned.

^^^ Kobe was traded for not drafted and in those early championships, Shaq was the driving force. He was the finals MVP three times.

How many championships did he win when he was teamed with with Hakeem Olajuwon and Charles Barkley?

How many when he was in Portland?

How many in Chicago when MJ wasn't there?

SP was a good player w/o MJ, but he was great player when MJ was on the court with him.  MJ had a way of making every player on the team around him look great and better than they were around him.

MJ style of play had a tendency to elevate the play of everyone around him.  Lebron doesn’t do that.  

correct, my bad. I meant to say once Shaq was removed from the equation.

So, does that mean you are discounting the Celtics' recent championship, or does it just count less in your mind when some team "other" than Boston tries to assemble the talent necessary for a title run?

Also...someone should ask Charles "the most annoying human being to ever go from the court to the studio" Barkley how the "carrying the entire weight by himself" worked for him when it came to winning championships.

1 - lebron didn't join magic and bird .. last i checked .. wade and bosh weren't the defending champions, in fact has either won a playoff series since 2006 ?

it's not like lebron said .. oh i can't beat kobe .. or i keep losing to orlando or boston .. so i'm gonna join orlando/boston/LA .. no .. he went to a team that hasn't won a playoff series in 4 years .. that 3 years ago had the worst record in the NBA

I think comparing that to MJ joining the celtics or lakers is complete crap

2 - every team you mentioned made moves to compete for a title, even the knicks got LJ to help ewing. Cleveland has not gotten even one good player in their prime to come join lebron. they signed a too old shaq. When the next best player on your team is flopper varejao, that says alot about the amateur hour GM job danny ferry did.

3 - MJ is a douchebag. And he's definately not the best player to ever play the game. Not even close. I'll concede he's the best marketed player ever. That's a fact. But as far as impact on the game, drive to win titles and overall value to his franchise, he's a distant finisher to Bill Russell. You can't compare a player taking a few years off to play minor league ball to a player that won 11 titles in 13 years. What was it .. 8 in a row?

4 - where was all this criticism of players when KG ran to boston to pick up a ring on pierce's team ? Where was all the criticism of Kobe because he couldn't win one without the lakers practically stealing Gasol ? "Kobe how my ass taste" .. that sound familiar ? .. that's what happens when one of the best players in the NBA doesn't have an all-star teammate.

5 - when lebron wins his 5th title with the heat .. his legacy will be doing just fine and this whole thing will be just a footnote.

That's not fair to say that Pippen couldn't win without Jordan, without saying that Jordan couldn't win without Pippen.  How many championships did Jordan win with the Wizards?


I disagree.  Lebron led a team of bums to the best record in the NBA.  He couldn't do it by himself in the playoffs.

Pierce, Garnett, and Allen were never considered the best player in the NBA at any point in there career's. Garnett gave 12 years of service to Minnesota, and Allen played for the bucks and sonics not exactly winning franchises. Plus, when the celtics were assembled it was only going to be for a short period of time. Whether you or anybody else wants to believe it lebron James is held to a different standard. I have no problem with a team assembling as much talent as possible, but I have a problem with the percieved best player in the game having to run to another top 3 player in the game Wade to win a title. Again, kings and chosen one's don't run from the challenge, they accept it.

And Lebron didn't run from any challenge in Cleveland, he fulfilled his contract, he played exactly at the level his high pay required. He was back-to-back MVP of the league. I don't know how you can ask any single player to do more for a team. When faced with a crap franchise, crap owner, crap GM and you have the option to go to what is widely considered one of the best organizations with one of the best owners and an experienced championship caliber front office in a city that's light years better than crapland no brainer.

Lebron is a primadonna douch, and a majorly immature asshole behind closed doors.  This is what the public doesn't know about him, but it is true.  The kid never grew up and is just a major jerk who's really good at not letting the outside world see it.

Behind closed doors?   He is primadonna douche and a majorly immature asshole out in public.  His lead up his two hour TV announcement puts the drama-queen Favre to shame. 

While I agree that "The Decision" was a bad idea, I think that it comes from having bad advice around him.  He has his cousins or something as his advisers, and they don't know how to manage his image.

However, I don't think that defines his entire character.  He has a good image.  I'm used to be the first to criticize hyped athletes, but I've always liked Lebron, since he first came in the league.  He's always done and said the right thing, and never got into trouble.

I think that people are bitter, for the most part.  Any team in the league would love to have Lebron join their team -- any one.  Now that he signed up with the Heat, they're trying to diminish him out of fear of the onslaught off ass-kicking that's coming for the next decade.

I find nothing wrong at all with the "Decision" .. Lebron was a free agent, with no ties to any NBA franchise and his 1 hour special had more viewers than a playoff game.

The fault lies with dan gilbert and the city of cleveland not understanding that when one of your employees has their employment contract expire, they are no longer your employee.

The only thing i would have liked better about the "decision" was if they had a row of jerseys and eliminated a team every 7 minutes by lobbing a flaming arrow and burning the jerseys one by one... now that would have been entertainment!

I don't care that he did it, but it certainly hurt his brand, which it was supposed to help.

This was supposed to build Lebron up, but it opened him up to criticism.  It wasn't a good idea, for publicity's sake...that's all I mean.

People want it both ways.  This is all positive attention for Lebron.  He's promoting himself, yes, but people obviously want him to do it because they continue to watch.  It's not like he's getting promotion from cheating on his wife or shooting himself in the leg or whatever else.

i agree .. at least he hasn't raped a hotel worker in colorado .. (that we know of)

I don't know about then, but Barkley certainly does carry the entire weight by himself now a days :)

Fine, then do not keep your employer on the hook when you have no intention of returning so they can go ahead and fill the position with the best person available.
Lebron went out of his way to completely fuck over his former employer. Gilbert understands this and explains why he was so mad at Lebron.
I like Wade, but I hope the Heat never win with Lebron. To mean Lebron is just as much of an egomaniacal prick as Barry Bonds. I was happy Barry never got a ring, and I will be happy if Lebron's career goes the same way.
Lebron should not have been the MVP last year, Durant was better.

Hope in one hand, and crap a good load in the other...and neither hand will prevent the titles from coming to LeBron, Dwyane and Chris.


Could be worse, I suppose...he could be a criminal rapist like Kobe, right? ;)

I like Barkley.  ...a lot actually.

But while I find him humorous, I think that his opinion on the subject is even less valuable than mine.  He's kinda the perfect example of someone you shouldn't listen to about this kind of thing.

I hope the heat never win a title with lebron and they take his stupid not one, not two, not .... title quote and reverse it so it ends at not one.

Well there is a huge difference between being accused of a crime, and actually convicted. I have no doubt Kobe had relations with that woman, but was it forcible rape, who knows.

The thing that pissed me off about the whole Kobe thing was that he lied to me, directly.  I don't care that he lied to his wife.  But, he held a press conference to his fans and denied sleeping with her, saying "you know me."

So, I believed him.

That pissed me off.  I felt personally betrayed, strangely.

I pretty much agree with everything you said. Lebron saying "It's nice not to have to score 30 points a night" was indicative of him  not having the desire to be an all-time great. Don't get me wrong, Lebron is obviously an amazing player, but he just doesn't have that instinct. HE is now Pippen, not Jordan. The Heat are Wade's team.

I understand what Lebron did though. I mean, who wouldn't want to form a super team with your friends in Miami and still make millions? But he sacrificed a huge chunk of his legacy. Michael wouldn't have done that and I hate Jordan, so it pains me to say this.

Yes and no. Parrish was acquired via trade but McHale was drafted by the Celts. The pick to draft him was acquired via trade, but McHale himself was not acquired via trade (Red Auerach NBA Grand Larceny that one was)

As for Jordan's comments, I see what he's saying to a degree. To me he was commenting that he didn't want to play with the best (and at that time, Jordan, Bird and Magic were the best in the game, although Bird and Magic were on the downswing), he wanted to kick the crap out of them and beat them on the court. I get that.

I think, and obviously I have zero insight into Jordan's train of thought, that Jordan is seeing this as the easy way out - why try to beat them when I can play with them and take over the world.

While this is good for Miami, I'm not so sure this is going to be good for the NBA as a whole as time marches on.

It is pretty important to use the word alleged in there.

I think you confused Kobe with Bill Clinton. Kobe never denied sex in his press conference, he denied rape. Remember how his wife was by his side at the press conference and he was admitting to have cheated? That was the talk about the whole thing.

I'm not so sure.  People are awful quick to annoint them champions before they have even stepped on the floor together.  No doubt there's plenty of potential there, but it's just potential right now.  I've seen better teams not win championships because of injury, selfishness, poor coaching, lack of effort etc.

I question whether there has ever been "a better team" than the one Miami is assembling, that DIDN'T win an NBA title. I don't believe there has been, but "better" is such a subjective term.

Kobe did deny sex at first.

...and I don't even care that he lied about it.  I care that he specifically called a press conference for fans and called on them to recognize his reputation and that he wouldn't do that.

Then, he realized that lying about that would only hurt his case, so he came clean about the sex part -- and his wife started showing up with a big piece of jewelry.

I don't think he ever denied it. His press conference was an admission to adultery but denial of rape. He never had a press conference calling on people to recognize he wouldn't cheat on his wife. His statement all along was that they had sex.

I think you may have a separate thing confused with this. At one point he had a housekeeper accuse he and his wife of harassment which was denied.

I'm not really an NBA guy, so you may be right, but some of the Dallas Mavericks teams were pretty well stacked and didn't win a championship.  First it was Mark Aguirre, Brad Davis, Rolando Blackman, Derek Harper, Sam Perkins and Detlef Schrempf in the 80's and then later it was Dirk Nowitski, Michael Finley and Steve Nash.  I won't argue with you if you say neither of those teams were as good as the current Miami Heat, but they were pretty good teams that didn't win.  All I'm saying is that you never know.  Miami may get all the way to the championship and lose to Kobe and Gasol.  Would that be an upset?  Perhaps, but it's certainly not out of the realm of possibilities.

I won't deny that it is likely the HEAT are going to win at some point. I would really like them to get beat out the first year these guys play together though.

^^^ I actually think their first year together is the "only" year in the next four that they could possibly not win a title. 2011, 12, 13...those belong to Miami. If they win it this season, they'll win at least 3-4 straight.

Flagging this post so I can quote it in a few years. ;)

No, there were two different exchanges with the media.  In the first, when the rumors were just circulating, he made a statement that it was all a lie, including the line "c'mon guys, you know me."

Then, after it came clear that this was the real deal (I think, but am not sure, that it was the very next day), he had a press conference with his lawyer and wife, where he admitted to adultery, but denied the assault charge.

I remember it pretty vividly, because it struck me as "no...yesterday was a lie, but TODAY....TODAY is the truth."   It was like the boy who cried wolf.

I haven't seen any clippings about outright denial (I looked because I don't remember it), but maybe. That may have been, but the press conference (which you specifically said it was) was about admitting the relations but denial of assault.

Magic Johnson said the same thing as Jordon and Barkely. He said from the time he left college he was trying to figure out how to beat Bird and not join him.

We didn't think about it 'cause that's not what we were about," Johnson said at Baruch College in New York, according to Bloomberg News. "From college, I was trying to figure out how to beat Larry Bird.

If I had a dollar for every time I've heard an ex-professional athlete talk out of their ass about "how things used to be" or "how current athletes aren't as motivated/dedicated/professional/etc... as they were," I'd buy the Miami Heat myself and help Wade, Lebron and Bosh hoist the championship trophies.