The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

I can't even do a poll, because you could make a valid argument for any of the 15 QBs that have started since Dan Marino.

My vote goes to John Beck, who was utterly, ridiculously, and unimaginably over matched. It was a complete and total nightmare in the 1-15 season of just a few years ago. You guys think Henne is robotic and not mobile, go back and view some footage of John Beck.

In fact, I'll save you the effort. Just view this video for all you need to know about how John Beck's NFL career had developed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDIqcHBkyJs

Based on the total investment made on him, and the fact that Drew Brees was passed over in favor of him, I'd have to say it was Culpepper.

(modified to add- especially since he was hailed as a savior).

That's a bit unfair to Beck since pretty much the entire team was utterly, rdiculously and unimaginably over matched that year.  Throw a rookie into that situation and you get exactly what you got.  He looked like a deer caught in the headlights.

I'll say it was Joey Harrington who was a 5 year veteran and had a LOT more to work with than Beck did and didn't fare much better.  A.J. Feely and Ray Lucas would be good choices too.

Pat White

Ray Lucas.....Just seeing or hearing his name makes my blood pressure rise!!!!!

It makes my head hurt to try and pick one.

Jtex asks about the 15 who started games. While he was horrible, he was never a starter.

Nor has Thigpen...Right now the count is 14.  It is projected to rise later today. 

Yea that was pretty bad, but at least he was consistent, ha ha ha..........

Thigpens time has come!!! Best on roster its about time. Until we draft one (next year)?? But not until mid-rounds dont want to give up on Henne right?? ahh!!  Fucking Fins!!!

For exactly the reasons Philly said, I'd go with Culpepper as well. So much hype, so little production, and we let the "real" savior go down to the bayou.

That said, if Miami or SF couldn't have Brees, I'm kind of glad that New Orleans got him. They needed that sort of "rallying point" for the community in a big way with all the disaster action.

Honorable mention to John Beck for being the ultimate deer in headlights and for allowing me to make one of my best "thin branch" sports predictions in years.

I'd also say Culpepper.  I admit I was excited when he came to town.  Dissapointment struck hard and fast.

The QB I hated and still dislike the most is Jay Fiedler.  I believe had we started an even slightly below average QB during his tenure we'd have made it farther than we ever did with that clown.  That defense and our running game was not unlike that of the Bucs and Ravens during their Superbowl years.  With the amount of turnovers our defense produced it's irritating how little we scored and how ridiculously predictable (HB draw?) our offense was due to our totally impotent passing. 

Cleo Lemon.  We did go 1-15 that year guys.

Ray Lucas.

We had a bad team with Lemon, Feeley, Beck, etc.  Lucas singlehandedly kneecapped us.

Gotta agree with Lucas.

Let me just point out one more reason to vote for Lucas:

After Lucas played, we prayed and hoped to get Jay Fiedler back ASAP.

Jay Fiedler...
...was an ENORMOUS UPGRADE...
...from this guy.

Can anyone here dispute that?

Brian Griese

That guy sucked.

I think it's John Beck.  That dude was terrible, and worse off, he was supposed to be a long term solution.

I'm gonna say Culpepper,but have no arguments with Lucas (Luca-plakia) either...

I totally agree with Guru with Hating Feidler.....

For me I always thought it was cyclical? ( if that's a word?)

Game 1- He'd do just enough,nothing over the top,but nothing really bad...Ok he's not Bad serviceable....whatever...

Next Game - plays Ok for a quarter or half,then bad throws,floats,runs when he should throw,probably a mistake or two...

Game after that - One Play doesn't work out, the next he does something out of nothing good,then a bunch of WTF moments....

Then it starts all over,the coaches pull the reigns in to make sure he builds his confidence....

I still think Fiedler is the best QB we have had between Marino and Henne.

^ I think the best we've had was Pennington.

I think it's tough to argue against Fiedler as the best post-Marino QB (so far).  His record destroys anyone else's and he was able to show some grit and win a playoff game.  It's also obvious (based on 2002) that there was a huge gap between Fiedler and the next guy in line.

Pennington had one really good season in 2008, but the guy is made of paper mache, which does count for something.  He hasn't played enough to win the competition.  Fiedler was injured a lot too, but he gave us 4 seasons of consistent (if unspectacular) play.

Normally I'd say Lucas hands down, but we also got him for practically nothing, so I'm going to go with AJ Feeley.

I wouldn't say Fiedler was the best since Marino. Its just that we had a bigger sample size of games he played.You could argue Pennington was the best, and you could also argue for Frerotte. I know I'll catch crap for that, but if you look at what Frerotte did, he played very well. Had the front office decided to draft a QB and move forward with Frerotte, its possible Saban would've stuck around longer. Instead they made the decision to go after one of two guys, and picked the wrong one.

I still say its Culpepper because you have to look at who they COULD'VE signed instead, as a free agent. Instead, they traded a pick, and paid Culpepper a fortune.

Ray Lucas.  Like AZ, I still seethe when I hear his name.

My pick goes to AJ Feeley, but it's really depressing knowing that are so many other valid choices for this 'honor'.

I can see being pissed that they traded a 2nd for Feeley, and he didn't do anything (Except beat the Pats on MNF). But again, they traded a 2nd round pick for Culpepper and could've had Brees! Oh, thats right, Brees had a bad shoulder, but the team doctors said Culpeppers knee was good to go. I never want those doctors to give me a medical opinion regarding my health!

Sorry, I need to make people realize how crappy of a decision Culpepper was, because it was in lieu of signing Brees!

Lucas

I think the worst was when Dante was playing for Oakland when they beat MIA and ran into the endzone for a TD, then pointed at his knee to taunt us.

do you guys remember watching all these clowns play?  while all pretty terrible, most could at least make some basic NFL throws (yes, even lucas). 

the qb who lacked the most football skills in my opinion was probably beck.  i mean he would just......stand there.

I think we won a lot in spite of Fiedler.  In that era, we used to score 9 points and win 9-6.  Our defense was amazing.

Fielder has his good games and I like the guy, but he wasn't a very good player.  He did just enough to hold the game together.  I feel that Pennington actually made us better.  He just wasn't here for very long.

I will quote Dave on John Beck: "I saw the fear in his eyes".

My choice would go to Beck or Lucas. Lucas did far more damage than Beck did.

I need to continue this crusade on Culpepper.
Remember Culpepper was so bad that Joey Harrington was an UPGRADE over him!
By no means am I saying Beck was awesome or a great QB. Its jkust that I think a lot more was expected of Culpepper, so thats why I think he was much worse.

Just to show you some comparisons (and remember, Beck was a rookie, playing on a horrible Fins team):
Beck was 60 out of 107, for 559 yards, and a 56.1% completion rate. He threw 1 TD and 3 INTs. He had a passer rating of 62, and was sacked 10 times (over 5 games, 4 starts)
Culpepper was 81 out of 134, for 929 yards, and a 60.4% completion rate. He threw 2 TDs and 3 INTs. He had a passer rating of 77, and was sacked 21 times. (over 4 games, all starts).

And a little further proof that Culpepper sucked more- Beck is still on an NFL roster, Culpepper is playing in some secondary league.

Good point, Philly

There are a LOT of bad QB's on this list. Its like a who's who of backups and washed up QB's. But just with everything that was expected of him, I think Daunte is the worst.

what about Scott Mitchell,   he sucked as well.     After that performance with the  garbage offensive line and Thigpen's play,  I'm left wondering if Henne was doing all he could on a crappy team.   Hopefully if Thigpen does start for the Raiders game he will do better this time

very good chance the Raiders will be w/o their best defensive player.  That might mitigate the loss of Long and give the o-line a very decent chance.

why, is Namdi Asomguhguhguhg or whatever his name is out??

sorry best defensive lineman

All I know is this:  I saw the graphic during the Bears game that showed each one of the 15 starters after Marino retired and it made me want to find a small animal to kick.  Pretty sad when you long for the days of Jay Fiedler.  In comparison he was a freakin' all pro.

Ray Lucas... Come on. Ray practically threw Miami season down the toilet after Fiedler went down.  Then John beck pff nuf said. Cleo Lemon..... how he get into the NFL

To the guy who said Brian Griese Sucked are you out of your skull??????Were you even a fan in 1972-73????

Think you may have misread. He said Brian Griese sucked. Not Bob Griese.

^ It's a moot point. Bob Griese was highly over-rated anyways. You probably hear him as an announcer for college football and probably saw him play and thought he was great, but he was not all that great at all. He put up largely mediocre numbers throughout his career - I mean we're talking barely 1,000 yards passing in a 14-game season mediocre.

Were you?

Are you aware that the Dolphins QB in 72-73 was named BOB Griese not Brian?  Are you aware that Bob Griese can not be considered the worst post-Marino QB because he was a pre-Marino not post-Marino.  Were you a fan in 2003?   

Hell even the guy you quoted said Brian Griese.

I know, thats what made it so weird!

I chalk it up to a brain fart. I've never had one myself, but my less competent friends have.  :D

Me too.  But considering how condescending and viral his tone was towards Brian Fien, I figure the newbie deserves a good thrashing for his brain fart.   

Actually Bob Griese never threw for under 2,000 yards in a 14 game season.  Also you have to remember that when Bob played, the rules regarding receivers weren't the same as they are today, you could basically molest the WR all the way down the field, none of this 5 yard chuck rule and pass interference was only called if you tackled the WR before he caught it.  Also QB's didn't typically throw the ball 30 times in a game, 300 attempts in a season was the norm, not the 500 attempts QB's put up now.  2,000 yards passing in a season at that time was quite respectable.  If you compare Bobs stats with a few other QB's considered to be pretty good that played at the same time, oh say Roger Staubach and Terry Bradshaw, his stats are pretty comparable.

And finally there is one stat that Bob Griese absolutely excelled at, the ratio of TD passes to pass attempts.  Bob's career TD to pass attempt ratio is 17.86.  In other words he threw a TD around every 18 attempts.  In comparison, Steve Young threw 1 TD every 17.88 attempts.  Joe Monatana comes in at 19.75 and even the great Dan Marino *only* threw 1 TD per 19.90 attempts.  Favre?  Not including this year, 19.74.

Here is the thing...totals and the like have something to do with 14 vs 16 games.  But as for % or  per game.  If the rules are really that favorable to the modern QBs wouldn't you expect that the leaders would all be from the current era?  And only a few from Griese's time?  But on this stat you have to get to #20 before you find some one who played after 1976.  Makes me think that the modern rules do not favor QBs as much as some claim. 

You've lost me.  Which stat are you talking about?  If you're talking about TD's to pass attempts, I think there's a pretty simple explanation. 

Back in Griese's time and before teams ran the ball a lot more than they do now especially between the 20's.  QB's didn't put up a lot of passes between the 20's, hence the number of attempts stayed pretty low, but QB's still found ways to get into the endzone passing.  So naturally QB's today are gonna have a lot more attempts that come between the 20's and so not nearly as many of them are for TD's.  That doesn't mean it was easier to throw TD's back then, just that a larger percentage of passes were thrown around the end zone than today.

And the point I was making was that throwing for 2,000 yards in the 70's does not really compare to throwing for 2,000 yards today.  Times were different.  Circumstances were different.  Another place where the different circumstances shows up is in INT's per attempt.  Griese and Bradshaw threw quite a few INT's, 1 per 19.94 and 18.58 attempts respectively whereas Montana only threw a pick every 38.78 attempts.  So while they threw for more TD's per attempt, they also threw more picks per attempt which I think is directly related to the rules of the game.  CB's could get away with a LOT more then than they can now.

By the way, where are you getting your stats from?  I'm curious because I put some stats together from simply looking at career stats for some QB's on NFL.COM, I don't have a comprehensive list of QB's and their career stats.  If you have that, I'd love to take a look at it.

While I won't presume to speak for anyone else, pro-football-reference has a TON of useful stats (including the ones mentioned):

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/pass_att_career.htm

Nice one.   :D

I thought we were talking about POST-MARINO era quarterbacks and yet I see somebody mentioned Bob Griese (not post-Marino and HOF) and someone said Scott Mitchell who left Miami via free agency to play for Detroit LONG BEFORE Marino retired, in fact played against Marino on a Monday Night Football game in 1997.

Made Cam Cameron look like an idiot for letting him go. 

Surprised at all the hate for Lucas, granted he sucked, must be because he was a former Jet.  For me, determining the worst post Marino QB, I would only consider those guys who were signed to become the starting QB, not the back-ups who were thrust into starting due to injury.  Therefore, the worst has to be AJ Feeley.  He had one or two good games in Philly and they brought him in like he was the second coming of ...., he was terrible.  At least with Culpepper he was coming back from an injury, and he was probably rushed to play too soon.

I know this is a joke.  Culpepper threw for something like 76 yards that game.  He had a few short TD runs...and nothing ever again.

Yet Cam "looked like an idiot" for letting him go?  It was one of the best moves the guy made.

It should be pointed out that only one of these guys is in the ROD

BTW, Cleo Lemon is apparently in the CFL now.     

SO CORRECT.  How could we all Forget A.J. Feeley. God he sucked.  Wanny LOL. I still remember the press conference when he brought him in.  He praised him so greatly. What a Joke.

^^^ For me it's almost a toss up between the two the deciding factor for Lucas isn't that he was a Jet, it was the fact that he rode the bench for a year and a number of people on the old MiamiDolphins.com web board were actually clamoring for him to start over Fiedler.   Then he started the one Buffalo game and repeatedly was throwing the ball in the ground.  That 2002 team was a potential superbowl caliber, and in stretch of about 5 weeks when he was starting, it was all over.

Feeley actually managed to win a few games down the 2004 stretch for the Dolphins including the Monday Night comeback game against the Patriots but he was only there one year.  He also had some shitty ones like the 5 INT game against Buffalo.  But he really only played part of '04 and it was pretty apparent from the start that Wanny wasted a draft pick on him in the trade.

I don't think Mitchell was a post-Marino QB, was he?

Here's how I remember it: Mitchell played well in limited play when Marino was hurt.  We traded him for more value than he was worth (to the Lions, I think) and then he fizzled into nothing.  ...a net gain for the Dolphins.

Damon Huard was the guy behind Marino when he finally retired, but never got the chance to start.