The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

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At this point, I'd have to say no.  This year the powers that be got impatient and abandoned the long term plan.  They decided that it was time to win now.  They convinced the owner that they were a superbowl contender by getting Brandon Marshall.  Well they were wrong.  What's worse is that by abandoning the long term plan, they have set themselves even further back.  Here's some of their biggest mistakes.

1)  Benching Henne was a stupid move especially when it was to "create a spark".  Henne wasn't playing poorly, just average, but he was clearly the face of the QB position for Miami and they all but undercut any positive steps that Henne had taken this year.  And for what?  So that Pennington could take 1 snap and be hurt?  Please.  Worst move ever by a coach.  Sanchez wasn't exactly playing well a year ago, but the Jets stuck with him and he's gotten better.  Miami should have stuck with Henne.  Stuck with the plan. 

2)  Too much roster turnover.  The revolving door policy in 2008 was needed, but not anymore.  Letting Jason Taylor get away was a bad move.  They could have signed him if they wanted to, but instead let him go to the rival Jets.  Benching Smith at the beginning of the year to promote Jason Allen to starter, then reinserting Smith and letting Allen go all the while Smith being horrible has been a joke.  Perhaps they were just trying to motivate Smith, but whatever it's failed...miserably.  Smith looked FAR better last year.  The offensive line is another case of too much turnover.  The offensive line we had last year was just fine, so they overhaul it.  Why?  Rather than weeding out players at the bottom of the roster, they are now jettisoning everything that doesn't look like a pro-bowler.  And it's not working.

3)  Over coaching.  Henne has been overcoached.  He's now afraid to take chances with the football because Sparano thinks you can win by simply not turning the ball over.  Got news for you Tony, you can't.  Good teams win despite turning the ball over rather than avoiding it at all costs.  Rather than being afraid of negative plays, ask your players to make big plays on both sides of the ball.  That's the long term goal.  Shrug off mistakes because you'll get them next possession, not dwell on it.  Smith is playing scared now, scared to make mistakes, he too seems like he's been overcoached, dwelling too much on his mistakes and now can't seemingly make any plays.  He's dropped several picks right in his hands, this coming from a former wide receiver.

4)  Draft and free agency inconsistency.  They've had some nice picks but they've also done some really stupid things.  Pat White was a joke and he wasn't needed.  Have no idea what they saw in him.  That was a huge waist of a pick.  Several high priced free agents have been brought in and none of them have really panned out including Marshall this year.  I'm not down on Marshall, I think he's a good WR, but people need to quit thinking that he's the answer to all our prayers.  He's just a WR.  He can't do it all by himself.

I have to say yes, and here's why:

Offensive line is, at least, solid and mostly pretty young.  The running backs are likely both gone (IMO)m but the receivers are solid (OK, decent).  QB and RB will be the two positions that will receive the most attention in the offseason (I'm guessing).

The defensive line is also solid and young.  I like 3 of the 4 linebackers we have, both safeties, and both starting corners.

At this point, Miami still has holes to fill, but I at least feel like most of the beef is there to make this team great once the skill positions get sorted out.  I'd rather have the lines in place before finding the skill position guys than the opposite (that leads to QBs getting ruined, like David Carr did).

I would have said yes if you asked me two weeks ago.

Overall I'd say yes, but I agree with pretty much all of Pappy's points...

1)  Benching Henne was a stupid move

Really dumb. No question. Even if Pennington had not gotten hurt AND we'd seen a moderate boost in offensive output... it would still have been dumb. What would that have gotten us?

2)  Too much roster turnover

The "Belicheat formula" of not overpaying players is certainly valid, but all turnover takes time and it seems like the Pats supplement with players already on their team instead of bringing in a bunch of new guys.  Yes, the Dolphins were INSANELY awful and thin a few years ago and while the facade has gotten better, the bottom-churn hasn't really produced the depth you'd want. Letting your GOOD players go to bring in cheaper replacements, who may or may not be at the same level, doesn't seem like a good idea, especially in an uncapped season.

3)  Over coaching.  Henne has been overcoached

I'm not sure I would really call this issue over-coaching. Henne is either checking down too much on his own or not being "given" plays with good deep options. Likely a combination of both. Should he be taking more chances? I'm not really sure. It just seems like there has been a lot of POOR gameday coaching on both sides of the ball. When something isn't working, it's taken FOREVER to make the necessary adjustments. Often things that were exposed on the first series has had to wait until halftime to get fixed. That's just not good enough. Is part of the problem that Henning is sitting upstairs in the booth? I don't know. I have nothing to back it up, but I just prefer coordinators down on the field.

4)  Draft and free agency inconsistency.

This is my sole disagreement. Have the Trifecta had a great draft? No, doesn't look like it. Have they had a bad draft? No, doesn't look like it. The Pat White pick was clearly a total waste, frustratingly so, and on so many levels, but it seems to have been mostly a solitary mistake. Overall drafting appears to be decent. As for the free agency acquisitions, I like what I've seen. The problem has been cutting the previous players, effectively leaving you with the same poor depth. And with a horrid run of bad luck wrt injuries this season, that's been a huge deal.

I would have said a resounding yes at the end of last year, but things have not gone well for the team nor for the staff this year.  

1) First Parcells announces he's leaving, which we already knew could happen at anytime but I was hoping that it would be later rather than sooner.  

2) Then comes a questionable move by Sparano in benching Smith and starting Allen in his place.

3)  Then comes another questionable move to put Will Allen on the disabled list which removes him from the team for the year.  Sparano seemed to indicate he was hurt and there was no way back, but Allen didn't agree.  I don't know what Will Allen's status is now, but we could have really used him about now if there was any chance of him returning.

4)  Then comes the questionable move by Sparano of benching Henne.

5)  Then comes the worst game of the season in a loss to Chicago where it just didn't seem like Miami was ready to play.  I understand that it was a short week and we had some banged up folks and 3rd stringers playing, but to look that bad a
gainst an average team was really a wake up call to me.  It's telling me that while we may be able to hang with teams if we are 100% healthy and have plenty of time to prepare, our back-ups are not ready to play.  This team is really thin.  A couple injuries sends this team realing while I see other teams have players step up and play when they get the chance.

It's not just a "NO"......its a "OH HELL NO"

The benching of Henne was the dumbest thing I have ever seen. He wasn't playing terrible. And how do you expect a young QB to learn and get better if he isn't on the god damn field!! That just shows what kind of an idiot head coach we have!!!

We have wasted valuable 2nd, 3rd, and even 4th round picks on losers who we either cut or don't play. Or in the case of Sean Smith only play because we are forced to and have no other friggin options.

Let's talk about all of the free agent signings we have BOMBED OUT on. Jake Groove, Gabril Wilson, Eric Green, Ernest Wilford, Justin Smiley.  Should I keep going??? Cause I can! The list is endless!

You can't give this group too much credit for making a 1-15 team better. Odds are by mistake anyone who took over was going to make a 1-15 team "better". The point is they got jackpot lucky in year 1. And in years 2 and 3 have gotten worse and worse. Not "progress", they are REGRESSING!! To the point we are almost on the level of that 1-15 team just a little bit younger and with a few big name pieces.

The ship is sinking and its time for a change.

Smiley and Grove are all-pro compared to the trash we have right now

Especially after we signed Eric Guhalalalalalalic, the former Bengals center nicknamed "The Human Turnstile"

And the number of back-up SCRUBS we signed off the Cowboys roster is laughable.

The Cowboys are a 3 win team right now and in the last 3 years we signed every guy not good enough to make that 3 win team.

It's a total disaster this organization right now.

the players on this team just aren't very good...

ronnie brown has become a below average running back, and ricky is just old. no speed at the rb position.

the receivers are decent, and would look better with better qb play.

the qb position this year, before henne got benched, was bad.

o line, outside of jake long, is average to below average run blocking, and pretty decent in pass blocking.

te is a vastly overrated position, and fasano is ok.

on defense, the interior of the line is ok. wake is great, misi is a rook getting better.

dansby is great, other backers are average, maybe below average.

safeties outside of bell, are nothing special. corners other than v davis are below average.

special teams other than carpenter, is pretty bad. this is where team depth really shows up, and the bottom of the roster is just bad.


overall this is just a mediocre team with average talent at best. sooo many holes to fix, not sure how many years it will take to fix. getting a better qb will help speed up the process though.

I don't buy that.  This team has enough talent to win in this league, they just aren't playing that way.  I don't know whether or not you can blame that on the players or the coaches, I imagine it's a bit of both, but I do think that it's the job of the coaches to prepare the players to play the games and I don't think they did a good job of it leading up to Thursday and to a lesser extent the previous 2 weeks.

That needs to change in the next 6 weeks and the team needs to get back on course or some coaching changes need to take place.  Roster changes alone won't be enough.

You praise two of them and in the next sentence you call them below average? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Talent-wise, I really like what I'm seeing on this team -- there are a few weaknesses and the big one: depth.

On defense, we've gotten better at CB (still need improvement), linebacker and defensive end. I still think we could use an upgrade a safety, while the inside d-line is a big weakness.

On offense, we've gotten better at receiver and holding steady at o-line. Yes, I'm talking starters here. Our depth sucks, I've covered that already. Our TEs seem to be improving. I still don't know what we have in Henne and regardless of that, we should consider getting either a good veteran backup or a promising young guy (but I think the pressure on QBs in the daft and free agency is going to be INSANE this coming off season). Depth really is the big issue on offense. Berger wasn't great to begin with at center and the drop-off was huge (to Incognito... we didn't see enough of Proctor to tell anything). Long is amazing, but the rest have weaknesses and "seal blocks" apparently aren't in their vocabulary at all.

I don't see our running backs as a major issue... yet. They are getting up there in terms of age, though, so at some point the need will arise. Not convinced by the fullback play (though Hennings tendency to go with two RUNNINGbacks may be skewing my perception and Polite does a great job as a short-yardage back).

Depth, depth, depth... If everyone stayed healthy (very rare, but did happen in 2008), the Dolphins would be a really good team.

(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:2wrwk39HYn83oM:http://capnbob.us/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/chicken-little.jpg&t=1)

yeah probably should've just said crowder, other inside linebacker.  3-4 wake, and misi are more so hybrid edge guys.

in any event, not sure where people see the talent on this squad being comparable to the super bowl contenders. it's just not on par... no amount of great coaching is taking this current team deep into a playoff run.

although maybe top tier qb play could make the difference with this team. on offense u look at teams like the chargers, with all the injuries they have, and they just keep on putting up sick numbers. u look at the jets, and as much as i despise them, sanchez is a lot better than henne at this point. their receivers, te, and rb's are all better than the dolphins. their o line as a unit is better than the dolphins.

look at baltimore... i would say that's the style of team miami wants to look like, and they are legitimate contenders. straight up, they pounded miami. maybe the only difference is that flacco is a lot better than henne right now, but it wasn't just that they have a better qb. they have a lot more players that are simply better.

no team has any depth anymore in theNFL. Those days are long gone. With a 53 man roster you can't have depth. Impossible. The problem is you can't miss on 2nd and 3rd round picks and expect to win in this league. The draft is where games are won and lost.  WASTING picks on Pat White, Patrick Turner, and Seasn Smith have hurt this team. With those picks if you get 3 starters instead and pencil them in our lineup, we have a much better team.  We waste high draft picks then go sign teh Cowboys back-ups. that is NOT a recipe for success in this league

For the most part, we are headed in the right direction.  The defense has improved dramatically over last year with Mike Nolan.

The offensive line was improving before we started getting guys hurt left and right.  Center is going to be a major draft need for us.  We can't have this shit where no matter who they play at center he gets hurt every goddamn year.

The wide recievers have improved but I think we're going to have to replace Brandon Marshall sooner rather than later and that trading Camarillo will prove to be a mistake.

We're going to need to retool at running back soon.

Our offensive coordinator is suspect at best.

This team has shown it can hang with just about anyone including Pittsburgh, NE and the Jets, we just need to get over that hump and go to the next level.  We've gone from cannon fodder to competitive/also-ran.  Now we need to become dominant.

I think Sparano can take us there but we need some semblance of a new offensive philosophy and our drafting still needs to improve.  It's much better than it was under Wannstedt but it has a ways to go yet.

Have to retool the RB NOW this offseason!!

Ronnie is washed up. Ricky is old

I would argue that you are contradicting yourself here.

Those draft picks, those young players, are exactly where the depth comes from.

Our problem is that when you have an average starter and a very poor (if any) backup, you can't just swap our your starter with a free agent. You need to keep the old starter (or add depth through the draft that year).

This all comes back to the state of the team under Wannstedt / Spielmann and later Cam Cameron. Draft picks after the first round are INSANELY CHEAP to sign, compared to getting a capable veteran. Like you said, you can't keep missing on those picks and expect to win.

I've seen people argue time and time again that it doesn't take multiple years to turn a franchise around; that you can win it all after a year or two. If the team you had SUCKED, the only way to do that is with insane injury luck. We had that in 2008. No team lost fewer starters than the Dolphins that year. Hit a year like that and, yes, you can do very, very well and to those who only look at things superficially, it will look like the franchise was turned around and everything is now hunky-dory.

To make matters worse, in terms of depth, every time a new coaching staff takes over, they jettison a bunch of players simply because they don't fit the scheme or style that the new regime wants to run. The stars aren't cut, of course, but a bunch of solid players who should otherwise be the backbone of your depth are. Change coaching staff every 2-3-4 years and you'll NEVER be any good.

One easy example of this is the Detroit Lions. They've had SEVEN head coaches in the last 10 years. Considering the majority were rookie head coaches, the franchise has just been set up for failure.

The Rams are another. After firing Martz, they've had FOUR head coaches in 5 years.

Note that I'm not saying you don't fire a bad head coach -- or even a reasonably good one that you just don't feel "will get it done". But hiring a new one shouldn't be a one-year "look-and-see" deal. Pick carefully and STICK WITH YOUR CHOICE. Otherwise, you might as well change the team logo to a blue cat.

2nd and 3rd round picks aren't depth picks. Those are where you need to find STARTERS who contribute to wins on the field

Yes and no...

For a lot of positions, those picks will spend a year or two as backups. They'll get playing time, but won't be starters unless there's an injury (i.e. depth).

Additionally, you can't figure on hitting on 100% of those picks. Some will just not be as good as you thought, some will require more time, some will have injury issues that set them back... all of those players should make up a good portion of your depth. Their rookie contracts aren't prohibitive, even for non-starters. Sure, if you can replace DEPTH players with someone cheaper of equal skill...

Can't argue with this...  I also believe this draft class has the potential to be excellent for finding RB talent in the middle rounds, so Miami shouldn't even need to use any early picks on that position. They could add more OL, DB, DL talent early and then grab some backs later.

Side thought, because it ties in. Not only the RB position, but I think this entire offense needs to add more speed. Miami has looked absolutely plodding at times (most times) this season, and it seems like every team Miami faces is faster than they are. This squad needs more speed at RB, WR, TE...pretty much everywhere.

Overall, this should be a pretty interesting offseason, as the organization answers a lot of questions about the front office, coaching and key personnel on the field.

How about more speed on defense? How many times have we looked like idiots on an end around or pitch play? Even the blocking on the d-line... every time there's side-to-side movement, the players look slow and awkward.

That is not entirely true.  Some teams such as the Colts, Jets, Chargers, Dallas tend to run very top heavy, spending almost all their money on the top 20.  Have  superstars and fill in the rest with scrubs. The often have the best pre-season team on paper. Some teams such as the Patriots, Steelers, Titans spend less on the top 20 and put considerable emphasis on have the best team top to bottom and care significantly about the quality of the 53rd man or who the backup QB is. 

Which is a better approach?   Hard to say....The Colts are probably the extreme in one direction and the Patriots are probably the extreme in the other -- both franchise have been quite successful with their approach.

Take away QB, and no position you draft in Rd 2 or 3 can't start from Day 1.  CB might be a little tough, but that would be the only one I  woudl consider. Seriously, if you draft a LB or a G or a DE or DT in Rd 2 or 3 they can start from Day 1 if good enough

Well, ANYONE can start from day 1 if good enough... that's kinda the point, though, isn't it?

I'm not saying you don't WANT your 3rd rounder to start... the better he is the better... but let's look at reality. How often does a 2nd or 3rd round pick start on an "established" team? Established meaning either same coach or at least same system for a number of years.

Let's take the Ravens as an example... This year they picked DT Terrence Cody in the 2nd and TE Ed Dickson in the 3rd. Each has 1 start this season. Last year they picked DE Paul Kruger and DB Lardarius Webb. 5 games started between them for their rookie season. Three years ago, they picked Ray Rice in the 2nd round (4 starts) and LB Gooden (0 starts) , DB Zbikowski (0 starts), and G Cousins (0 starts) in the 3rd. Four years ago they picked OT Yanda (12 starts) and Figurs (0 starts).

See a trend?

Let's take another team... Gruden's Bucs...

2010: DT Brian Price (0 starts), WR Arrelious Benn (6 starts), DB Myron Lewis (0 starts)
2009: DT Roy Miller (1 start... but 10 for 10 this year)

And another... let's do the Colts this time:

2010: LB Pat Angerer (5 starts), DB Kevin Thomas (0 starts)
2009: DT Fili Moala (1 start... but 10 for 10 this year), CB Jerraud Powers (12 starts)

I'm going to assume it's possible to find teams were the number of starts are much higher. There are, after all, many different tactics. But, again, one of the reasons many of these rookies get their starts is due to INJURY to the established starter. I.e. the rookies initially constituted DEPTH (and automatically became starters when that DEPTH was needed).

The Patriots would be one such example with second round picks Brandon Spikes, Jermaine Cunningham and Rob Gronkowski all getting a significant number of starts in their rookie season. Their 3rd rounder (WR Taylor Price) this year hasn't seen the field yet, so the picture is not quite as clear as the three second rounders make it appear.  2009 was more like the other teams listed above, so I'm tempted to prescribe those three as the aberration rather than the norm.

2009: DB Darius Butler (5 starts), DE Ron Brace (2 starts), OT Sebastian Vollmer (8 starts), WR Brandon Tate (1 start), LB Tyrone McKenzie (0 starts).

Just to boil the above down for you, MikeO:

10 seasons... 3 teams... 27 players... an average of 3.15 games started their rookie season.

Fyo ....its raheem Morris's Bucs, not Gruden's.  Gruden is probaably on of the worst drafters ever.

But you can't waste picks on players who either aren't in the league (Pat White) or are so bad they get cut after 1 year (Patrick Turner). Or guys who flat out can't play (Sean Smith). That is why Ireland/Sparano must go. Too many wasted opportunities on and off the field in leading this organization

Which is a perfect retort to... oh, wait, you didn't address anything that was brought up with your post. Your two arguments these days seem to be "because you're wrong" and just ignoring it.

You claimed, or at least appeared to claim, that 2nd and 3rd round picks could / should start from day 1. I presented substantial findings that clearly indicated otherwise in the real world, thus backing up my initial argument that 2nd and 3rd round picks contribute to depth.

Do you have anything to add or do you concede that you might possibly have been mistaken? (Or are you just going to take your ball and go home.)

what is this a test? I can respond to anything I want in any way I want. My god, some of you just come here looking to pick a fight. I'm just here to talk football. Some of you need to chill the F' out!!

Yes, in rounds 2 and 3 of the draft you want to find guys who will start for you. Most by day 1 but if it takes a few games or a season so be it. Depends on the team. A team like NE or Balt probably won't need those guys to start from Day 1 since they are already loaded. A team like the Browns or Lions probably need them to start from day 1. Is that such an awful thing to say?  ::)

But the fact of the matter is, at WORST....yes at WORST....you need guys you take in Rd 2 or 3 to at least be on your active roster!!! Ireland/Sparano drafted guys who aren't even on our active roster for christ sakes and wasted valuable high picks! 

Chill out, don't get your panties in a bunch.

who isn't "chill"?? Just talking football bro!

Not everyone is like you who is "un-chill" looking to start a fight or war of words. Some of us just want to talk football.

MikeO, in case you haven't figured out why everyone seems to be against you, your schtick is getting old.  It can roughly be summed up as:

1) make some wild claim without any support (in this thread, it's "2nd/3rd rounders should immediately start")
2) ignore all facts presented that contradict your claim
3) continue to assert the same claim while optionally accusing your detractors of being blind or naive

You can only go to the well so many times before every person in every thread treats you like the fact-free baiter that you have been acting as.  At some point, you need to learn to acknowledge when the actual facts of the discussion prove you wrong.

Oh please. Anyone who has a "different" opinion you guys jump on like a pack of wolves. (ie Jason Allen having a bad season)....then when I'm proven right the threads get locked.  There is no wild claim. It's an opinion that I back up with facts. You can agree or disagree, but you people think just because someone doesn't think like you that they are wrong. '

And the Larry Fitzgerald thing is a joke.  Fighting over the word "bloody".  Defending someone who abuses women says more about YOU then it does me!  And there is no "act" or "schtick".... I come here to talk football. You can agree or disagree with what I say. I'm not on trial for christ sakes and I don't have to provide a link to every little thing

Plenty of people on this forum provide different opinions.  You're the only one who provides opinions, ignores facts presented in rebuttal, and says, "I'm not your slave!" when people ask you to back up the claims you've made.

This is why you receive the responses that you do.

Just so you understand.

whatever bro. I just come here to talk football.  I really don't get that "emotional" about this stuff as you clearly do. You are taking this message board a little too seriously.