|
Title: Which team is truly the best in the NBA? Post by: MaineDolFan on January 24, 2011, 01:16:12 pm The NBA All-Star break is coming soon, we're closing the half way point on the NBA season. If the season were to end right now, who would the top gun in the league be? Why?
Vote and dicuss! Title: Re: Which team is truly the best in the NBA? Post by: Sunstroke on January 24, 2011, 01:34:17 pm Assuming all are healthy... I'm going with Miami. Especially if Mike Miller continues playing like he played last game...or anything near that level. Big 3 + healthy and productive Mike Miller, Udonis Haslem, Mario Chalmers = best team in the NBA. Title: Re: Which team is truly the best in the NBA? Post by: Dave Gray on January 24, 2011, 01:45:01 pm I picked the Celtics. The Celtics have dealt with some injuries, sure, but nothing that's long-haul debilitating. I'm glad to see Miller back and playing well, but I think this is really about Haslem and what he brings to the boards. Without him, I think that the Heat may fall just short in a series against the Celtics.
Title: Re: Which team is truly the best in the NBA? Post by: MaineDolFan on January 25, 2011, 01:04:17 pm I still say Boston, but the Spurs are right up there.
Title: Re: Which team is truly the best in the NBA? Post by: Tenshot13 on January 25, 2011, 01:53:25 pm Insulting you have the Knicks on the poll but not the Magic.
Title: Re: Which team is truly the best in the NBA? Post by: Sunstroke on January 25, 2011, 02:14:25 pm ^^^ Good call... Maybe they were left off the poll for the same reason they were left off your signature? ;) Title: Re: Which team is truly the best in the NBA? Post by: EDGECRUSHER on January 25, 2011, 02:58:53 pm Boston.
The Heat have more talent, but it really takes at least a year for a team to gel together. Their record is just indicative of how many great players are on their team, led by Dwyane Wade. Title: Re: Which team is truly the best in the NBA? Post by: Tenshot13 on January 26, 2011, 01:24:13 am ^^^ Good call... Zing! I had to choose between the Magic and the Lighting otherwise my sig was too big.Maybe they were left off the poll for the same reason they were left off your signature? ;) Title: Re: Which team is truly the best in the NBA? Post by: JVides on January 26, 2011, 11:52:34 am The Spurs are 3 games better in the loss column in a tougher conference, so they get my vote. Also, I'm a Spurs fan. Really, though, Spurs, Lakers, Celtics, Heat and even Chicago and Orlando all belong in the conversation.
Title: Re: Which team is truly the best in the NBA? Post by: Jim Gray on January 26, 2011, 02:25:00 pm I went with the Celtics, even though I hope the Heat will come out of the East.
The Celtics just seem tougher to me. Title: Re: Which team is truly the best in the NBA? Post by: Sunstroke on January 26, 2011, 02:58:41 pm I'd pay money out of my pockets to NOT see Boston or LA make another NBA Finals any time soon. Seriously... Chicago looks scary to me... I think they may have the right mix to challenge in the East this season. Title: Re: Which team is truly the best in the NBA? Post by: EDGECRUSHER on January 26, 2011, 05:00:44 pm Is the Western Conference tougher? Historically it has been, but the East has really stepped it up this year. It would look even better if the Knicks didn't decide to forget how to shoot for 8 games.
If the Knicks get Anthony at the trade deadline, it may tip the scales in their favor because that would also remove the Nuggets. Title: Re: Which team is truly the best in the NBA? Post by: JVides on January 26, 2011, 06:02:04 pm I think the East might be "top-heavier" in that the elite NBA teams from the east, which you could argue are Boston, Miami, Orlando, and Chicago, number more than the elite Western Conference teams, which I would limit to San Antonio and Los Angeles (Dallas, if they can overcome the loss of Caron Butler). However, The West also has a bunch of really solid teams in New Orleans, Oklahoma City, Utah, and Denver (and I put Dallas here too), as well as a few pretty decent-to-solid teams that would have much better records if they didn't have to play in the Western Conference (like Houston, Portland, Phoenix, Memphis). Finally, the West only has 4 teams that would qualify as doormats (Minnesota, the Clippers, Sacramento, and Golden State), and I'm not even sure that the Clips belong in that category despite their record.
By contrast, the East has Atlanta and New York in the "really solid teams" department (and really, that's arguable, because in the West both of these teams would be getting their asses beat regularly). Decent-to-solid teams might be limited to Milwaukee when Michael Redd gets back. Then you have doormats, which number 8 (Philly, Toronto, New Jersey, Indiana, Detroit, Cleveland, Charlotte, Washington). So I scrore 'em: Elite teams: West 2, East 4 Very solid teams: West 5, East 2 Decent teams: West 4, East 1 Doormat teams: West 4, East 8 Title: Re: Which team is truly the best in the NBA? Post by: EDGECRUSHER on January 26, 2011, 11:56:37 pm Good analysis. The bottom of the East is just the worst. Import the Buckeyes from college and they can probably play better.
Title: Re: Which team is truly the best in the NBA? Post by: Sunstroke on January 27, 2011, 12:56:26 am I think the East might be "top-heavier" in that the elite NBA teams from the east, which you could argue are Boston, Miami, Orlando, and Chicago, number more than the elite Western Conference teams, which I would limit to San Antonio and Los Angeles (Dallas, if they can overcome the loss of Caron Butler). However, The West also has a bunch of really solid teams in New Orleans, Oklahoma City, Utah, and Denver (and I put Dallas here too), as well as a few pretty decent-to-solid teams that would have much better records if they didn't have to play in the Western Conference (like Houston, Portland, Phoenix, Memphis). Finally, the West only has 3 teams that would qualify as doormats (Minnesota, the Clippers, Sacramento, and Golden State), and I'm not even sure that the Clips belong in that category despite their record. By contrast, the East has Atlanta and New York in the "really solid teams" department (and really, that's arguable, because in the West both of these teams would be getting their asses beat regularly). Decent-to-solid teams might be limited to Milwaukee when Michael Redd gets back. Then you have doormats, which number 8 (Philly, Toronto, New Jersey, Indiana, Detroit, Cleveland, Charlotte, Washington). So I scrore 'em: Elite teams: West 2, East 4 Very solid teams: West 5, East 2 Decent teams: West 4, East 1 Doormat teams: West 4, East 8 Hard to argue with most of this... Just a few thoughts: I'd put Dallas in the elite class out West, equal to Chicago in the East, and think that the loss of Caron the rest of the season isn't that huge of a deal. The loss of Dirk for several weeks was what slammed the brakes on their winning streak and put the muffler on their elite exhaust. If Dirk's healthy, Dallas is elite. I think Phoenix should be somewhere halfway between decent and doormat, and if I had to put them in one pile or the other, I'd go with doormat. The only two quality players on the roster are Steve Nash and Grant Hill, and both qualify as "old dogs" at this point. Not sure about Michael Redd delivering much for the Bucks when he gets back from the knee injury...I think all those injuries have just taken too much of a toll. I think what will help the Bucks more than Redd is the return of Carlos Delfino last week (he's been ramping back up in production the past few games), and the expected return of Brandon Jennings sometime next week. Title: Re: Which team is truly the best in the NBA? Post by: MaineDolFan on January 27, 2011, 09:24:59 am Insulting you have the Knicks on the poll but not the Magic. They are on there, please refer to "other." Vote "other" and add your reason why! :) Title: Re: Which team is truly the best in the NBA? Post by: Tenshot13 on January 27, 2011, 12:22:55 pm They are on there, please refer to "other." Vote "other" and add your reason why! Fine. Other. Magic. Because I'm a homer for all my teams and Dwight Howard is a beast.:) Title: Re: Which team is truly the best in the NBA? Post by: Fau Teixeira on January 27, 2011, 02:30:23 pm I picked the Heat, mainly because i'm a homer and also because i think they are winning with talent and without chemistry and when those combine, they'll have a huge advantage over other teams.
I don't agree with the Knicks being on this list, they aren't even a "solid" team, they're just a cut above mediocre .. i put them in the same spot the heat were in the past 2 seasons .. 1 star, 1 decent starter, maybe a 6th man type guy and then a whole bunch of nobodies. The only reason people even remember the Knicks exist is because of the new york sports media and overall north east sports snobbery. They are at best, a 6th seed in the east .. at the very top of their game they're a .500 club. and that's only because seeds 7-8 could possibly have losing records. Title: Re: Which team is truly the best in the NBA? Post by: Sunstroke on January 27, 2011, 02:49:29 pm I don't agree with the Knicks being on this list, they aren't even a "solid" team, they're just a cut above mediocre .. i put them in the same spot the heat were in the past 2 seasons .. 1 star, 1 decent starter, maybe a 6th man type guy and then a whole bunch of nobodies. I have to disagree with you on this one...with the qualifier that I've watched a "lot" of Knicks games this season, and not just the two Heat-Knicks games. Amare' is the superstar, but Raymond Felton is arguably playing like one of the top-5 PG's in the league so far this season. Wilson Chandler is also more than a "decent starter," and I'd trade Mike Miller, James Jones and Eddie House all together for Danilo Gallinari. Not saying the Knicks are an elite team...not even close, but they're definitely a solid squad. ...and this is coming from one of the most vehement "I hate all NY sports teams" fan you're likely to ever meet. Title: Re: Which team is truly the best in the NBA? Post by: Fau Teixeira on January 27, 2011, 03:22:44 pm Then we'll just disagree then. I think gallinari is in the same boat as michael beasley .. a starter on a poor/mediocre team that wouldn't get minutes on an elite squad .. felton has been a decent PG but he's not top 5 .. top 10-15 maybe .. but there are quite a few in front of him.
Chris Paul Derron Williams Derek Rose Rajon Rondo Steve Nash Russel Westbrook Brandon Jennings Stephan Curry Chauncey Billups Tony Parker Jason Kidd so who of those PGs would you trade for felton right now .. not "because they're getting old and felton has a few more years left in him" I didn't even include the tweener PGs .. ala Jameer Nelson, Mo Williams, Monta Ellis, Baron Davis types Title: Re: Which team is truly the best in the NBA? Post by: Sunstroke on January 27, 2011, 03:46:13 pm Then we'll just disagree then. I think gallinari is in the same boat as michael beasley .. a starter on a poor/mediocre team that wouldn't get minutes on an elite squad .. Then we agree that Gallinari and Beasley are in the same boat...we just are picturing two completely different boats. Beasley is now a "star" caliber player, and he would have attained that with Miami as well, had Miami kept him around and fed the offense through him. felton has been a decent PG but he's not top 5 .. top 10-15 maybe .. but there are quite a few in front of him. Chris Paul Derron Williams Derek Rose Rajon Rondo Steve Nash Russell Westbrook Brandon Jennings Stephan Curry Chauncey Billups Tony Parker Jason Kidd so who of those PGs would you trade for felton right now .. not "because they're getting old and felton has a few more years left in him" I didn't even include the tweener PGs .. ala Jameer Nelson, Mo Williams, Monta Ellis, Baron Davis types On the first list, if I'm ranking them today (not career body of work), I put Felton ahead of Tony Parker, Brandon Jennings, Chauncey Billups and Jason Kidd. I'd bump Monta Ellis up from the second list to the first one and slot him just ahead of Felton as well. That still locks Felton in the top-10 PGs, which has to be considered a star player by any scale. Felton is averaging right at 17.5 points, 9 assists and 2 steals per game. What about those numbers do you "not" consider impressive? Title: Re: Which team is truly the best in the NBA? Post by: MaineDolFan on January 27, 2011, 03:53:18 pm Fine. Other. Magic. Because I'm a homer for all my teams and Dwight Howard is a beast. In all seriousness... I just picked teams, by the way, that seem to be "media darlings" right now. You could also make a case for a bunch of others (Denver, example). Hence the "other" option. I only had so many slots to use. Title: Re: Which team is truly the best in the NBA? Post by: Fau Teixeira on January 27, 2011, 04:17:45 pm The part about gallinari / felton in NY that doesn't impress me is that amare can only take so many shots .. someone else has to shoot the ball .. it's those two by default right now .. not out of choice
put mike bibby in felton's spot on the NY roster and he'd have similar numbers .. it doesn't mean that suddenly bibby goes from PG afterthought to top 10 PG I understand where you're coming from .. and all i'll say is that metrics and fantasy value aren't the only measures of the quality of a player. The measure i'm more interested in is all things being equal .. if you were a GM and could choose any player in the NBA for your PG spot .. at what point would you say "raymond felton" .. i think it's far down the list and when push comes to shove you'd have similar success with a group of 5-6 PGs that are in that "solid starter, not star" category .. which is what he is amare - star .. not 1st team nba, maybe not even 2nd team nba but a star felton - solid starter.. would start on over half the teams in the nba .. but not an all star gallinari - solid 6th man at best on any good team .. starter on a mediocre team with no other options .. scores by volume but lacks efficiency .. will never sniff an all-star selection Title: Re: Which team is truly the best in the NBA? Post by: norad34 on January 27, 2011, 05:06:30 pm I'd have to go with the San Antonio Spurs.
They have managed to reload with younger players and fit them in with Parker, Ginobli and Duncan. Gregg Popovich is one of the best coaches in the NBA when it comes to assessing unknown talent. The organization is first class all the way. You can tell that it's a close knit group. The Spurs play basketball the way it is supposed to be played (defense and movement on offense). If the Spurs can keep rolling and get the top seed in the Western Conference they will meet Boston in the NBA Finals. Title: Re: Which team is truly the best in the NBA? Post by: Sunstroke on January 27, 2011, 05:28:53 pm The part about gallinari / felton in NY that doesn't impress me is that amare can only take so many shots .. someone else has to shoot the ball .. it's those two by default right now .. not out of choice For a second time in this thread, I have to disagree...and might even request that you to watch a couple more Knicks games before we end up with a third. put mike bibby in felton's spot on the NY roster and he'd have similar numbers .. it doesn't mean that suddenly bibby goes from PG afterthought to top 10 PG Too late on the request above...and you went for the gold with this one. I love Bibby "more" than anyone you know...unless you know other U of Arizona fanatics, and Bibby couldn't carry Felton's jock at this point of his career. Not even close. If you'd said "put Joel Anthony in Amare's spot..." you'd have a similar level of accuracy. Title: Re: Which team is truly the best in the NBA? Post by: EDGECRUSHER on January 28, 2011, 01:58:07 am I didn't want to start a new thread just for this, so did anyone know that Rajon Rondo is shooting under 50% from the FT line this year? Is that even possible?
Title: Re: Which team is truly the best in the NBA? Post by: Fau Teixeira on January 28, 2011, 09:45:54 am so Felton scored 6 points with 3 boards and 7 assists in 37 minutes yesterday while being guarded by chalmers/arroyo
top 10 PG indeed .. he got outscored by joel anthony Title: Re: Which team is truly the best in the NBA? Post by: Sunstroke on January 28, 2011, 10:05:47 am LOL...quit being ridiculous, Fausto. You take a one game sample size, and a game against one of the top defenses in the NBA. ...and a game where they upset the Heat, btw... Missing from your commentary was the 20 point game by Gallinari, and the overall quality performance by the Knicks, which would seem to back up my original statement more than adequately: Not saying the Knicks are an elite team...not even close, but they're definitely a solid squad. It's OK that you're a complete Homer, Fau...I actually like that about you. Just try not to let it obstruct your view of reality. Title: Re: Which team is truly the best in the NBA? Post by: EDGECRUSHER on January 28, 2011, 03:13:09 pm The Knicks are definitely in the 2nd tier, but they are still pretty good. The thing with them is they are very young and it takes a bit to find your groove in D'Antoni's system. When/if they learn to create their own shot, the team will be a perennial contender. Gallo is lights out from 3, he just doesn't take many of those shots unless he is open.
This whole analysis changes if they trade for Melo. Title: Re: Which team is truly the best in the NBA? Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on January 28, 2011, 03:19:50 pm Seems like the conversation has kinda spun significantly away from the topic. Nobody is talking about who is better among Spurs, Heat and Celtics but whether whether the Knicks should be on the list.
Title: Re: Which team is truly the best in the NBA? Post by: MaineDolFan on January 28, 2011, 03:24:34 pm ^^Are you reading the posts? It's completely on topic.
Title: Re: Which team is truly the best in the NBA? Post by: Sunstroke on January 28, 2011, 03:29:40 pm I think any thread along the lines of "which team is the best in the NBA" is bound to have at least a little sideways spin as people start bracketing similarly-talented teams into groups to determine cut-off points for "great," "really good," "solid" teams, etc... Title: Re: Which team is truly the best in the NBA? Post by: Sunstroke on January 28, 2011, 10:09:46 pm One last thought to Fausto, in regards to the Raymond Felton misconception on his part<g>... Following up that one "statistically weak" game Felton had against the Heat (which, again, the Knicks won)... Against Atlanta tonight, and the "other" PG you mentioned, Mike Bibby, Felton had 21 points and 13 assists. Top-10 PG in the NBA now. For those who watched him as a Tarheel and early in his NBA career, this is not a surprise. To those who watch Heat games and wear Homer goggles...this is your Raymond Felton wake up call. ;) And to slip things back on track... As much as I'd love to see Miami win the title this year, my original "they'd be more likely to win 'next' year than this year" opinion still stands. I am going with the young gun upset in the playoffs this year, and will put my "Congratulations, Oklahoma City Thunder on your first NBA title" up for public record before anyone realizes how scary they're actually going to be in April. Title: Re: Which team is truly the best in the NBA? Post by: MikeO on January 29, 2011, 06:14:10 am If the Heat are healthy and motivated, which are two big IF's sometimes, nobody is better than they are. Nobody can touch em. But they aren't healthy and aren't motivated every night. I mean the Heat blew a 2nd half lead to the Knicks the other night, and after the game in front of the media in the lockeroom Lebron is whistling and singing/ Which #1 is just flat out odd and strange and 2nd seems like he could have cared less that they just lost. Even Wade turned around and gave him a weird look that was caught on camera. The Heat have all the talent but miss that one vet who can slap these guys upside the head and go ...."hey quit f'n around lets go"
If I had to rank the Top 3 teams heading into the spring... 1) Lakers 2) Spurs 3) Heat Title: Re: Which team is truly the best in the NBA? Post by: Sunstroke on January 29, 2011, 09:52:00 am so Felton scored 6 points with 3 boards and 7 assists in 37 minutes yesterday while being guarded by chalmers/arroyo top 10 PG indeed .. he got outscored by joel anthony Since it involves one of the "best teams in the NBA" and is about as perfect a supporting case for a point I made above (not judging a player by one game) that I could ask for, I need to digress to PG-land one last time. Raymond Felton's line against the tough D-team, Miami: 6 points, 3 rebounds, 7 assists (and a Knicks win) Rajon Rondo's line against the "Defenseless" Phoenix Suns last night: 7 points, 2 rebounds, 6 assists (and a Celtics loss) Hmmm... Despite the loss to Phoenix, I still consider Boston to be one of the elite teams in the NBA, and possibly the best. Despite Rondo's extremely weak stat line for one game, I still consider Rondo to be one of the elite PGs in the NBA... And on a personal fan sidenote... GO SUNS!! Title: Re: Which team is truly the best in the NBA? Post by: JVides on January 31, 2011, 04:31:04 pm On the first list, if I'm ranking them today (not career body of work), I put Felton ahead of Tony Parker, Brandon Jennings, Chauncey Billups and Jason Kidd. So this is how it is, 'Stroke? We're finally coming to blows? Felton over Parker? You're killing me, bro... Title: Re: Which team is truly the best in the NBA? Post by: Sunstroke on January 31, 2011, 05:09:49 pm So this is how it is, 'Stroke? We're finally coming to blows? Felton over Parker? You're killing me, bro... Yes, Felton over Parker... No disrespect to Parker, who I like quite a bit, but yessir...right now, I'd take Felton over Parker. ;D Here's one that will make ya smile though, just to balance it out... I'd take Popovich as my coach before any other coach in the NBA, including Phil Jackson. |