The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

Jason LaCanfora on his twitter says now that the draft is over. The only market for Kolb is Seattle and Miami.

McNabb to Minny is all but a done deal. Arizone loves Bulger for some reason. Tenn wants a vet to back up Locker but not at the asking price of Kolb. Only 2 teams in the market for Kolb will be Seattle and Miami.

So once this dopey lockout ends, the Fins might make a big move there.

One thing in our favor, Pete Carroll coached Carson Palmer at USC and with Palmer on the market now that cincy drafted Dalton, Carroll might want "his guy" at a lesser asking price.

Tell Philadelphia they can keep him.

I am a Kolb guy. I like him alot. I mean it depends on the asking price of course, but I wouldn't be upset if the Fins pulled the trigger and traded for him.

My wish list is still Kolb, Young, Palmer (in that order).

I think Henne makes a solid #2 QB in this league and maybe in time the light bulb goes off, but we need to do something. We can't have Henne start week #1 for us next year

I don't know about Kolb...he has comparable numbers to Henne.  I'd like Orton for the right price, Palmer or Hassleback in that order.

Looks like Seattle is just gonna cut Hasslebeck loose so we can get him for nothin. Problem is he is another 1-year wonder like Pennington was 2 years ago beacuse of his age. It doesn't solve the problem, its just a band-aid for one year. And Hasslebeck is as injury prone as Pennington really, the guy is always out for something.

Im not toally against bringing him in, but he is a last resort type in my opinion

Henne is the quarterback

God I hope not !!!

I'm thinking this is true because they did not draft a QB and they can't talk to anyone free agent wise because of the lockout.  So, unless they were negotiating with someone before the lockout, I see Henne as our starter this season.

I think one point is being missed:

Right now, the Dolphins have exactly 1 quarterback on the roster... plus Tom Brandstater (2009 6th round draft pick by the Broncos) signed to a future/reserve contract.

Both Pennington and Thigpen are free agents.

That fact leads to one simple conclusion:

There's no way in hell the Dolphins don't go out and sign at least one more quarterback.

The question is do they go out and sign a starter or a backup?

The only one in that group that's even worth looking at is Carson Palmer.  I'd rate him as a 50/50 at best and if he wants out of Cincinnati bad enough, they'll lower the price.  Hasselbeck is too injury prone and was only worth three quarters of a shit to begin with.  If Kolb were any good we'd know it by now.  Philadelphia has way more weapons on offense than we do. 

I don't even want Hasselbeck as a backup.  He's another one of those west coast offense bullshit artists.  He'll last until the first hit. 

Sign someone else.  Get me McCown or even Kerry Collins. 

My prediction is that no matter who they get, they won't beat out Henne on Day 1.  Henne is the day 1 starter.

+1 Still not sure why there is any hype about Kolb who has done what exactly in the NFL?

Orton, Kolb, and even Hasselbeck could beat out Henne with one arm tied behind their backs

^^ all three of those come from pass oriented teams..lets see what the new playbooks have drawn up for Henne before we make these assumptions

I'm not too high on Kolb, I don't think he is much of an upgrade from Henne.  I'd like to see them pick up Palmer, perhaps with a change of scenery he may find a new begining.  Whoever Miami picks up Henne will be the starter unless someone totally outshines Henne in preseason.

Now a new playbook will make Henne good? What does a playbook have to do with throwing the ball to the wrong team? Please explain? You can try and polish a turd anyway you want, its still a turd. I was a huge Henne supporter. Still like him as a solid #2 QB.....the guy isn't a starter in the NFL. You could give him Jerry Rice and Michael Irvin in their prime on the field with him with Emmitt Smith in his prime and the Cowboys o-line, the guy would still fail. You can draw up perfect plays, put him in perfect weather conditions, tell the fans not to boo him, put him in the most ideal situation ever.....he still can't play at a high level.

^^^^

It can have a lot to do with it, which is what I was getting at earlier.  If the recievers are fucking up the routes which happens quite often and we never hear about it, it can lead to an interception.  You'll see it a lot with 3 and 5 step drops or other timing patters. 

Call a shitty formation over and over again like 5wr in the face of all out blitzes which has happened repeatedly under Dan Henning, you're probably going to be under duress the whole game and throw a couple picks.

Call plays against the wrong coverages and CB's will start jumping the routes.

Call plays in the wrong order and you end up struggling on offense as well.

I'll believe it when I see it.

lol, keep believing in Henne. Keep believing.

excuses, excuses, excuses. Nothin but excuses!!

Has anyone bookmarked this thread or should I?

please do! Please do!!

This is gonna be really funny when Henne is falling on his face next year

I won't bother because even when we prove you wrong, you are unable to accept that you were wrong.  And no, I am not going to post a link.  Look it up yourself.

It's not an excuse.  How many times does shit like that happen in the NFL?  If you're not in the film room, you may think you know to borrow one from Jim Mora but you have no idea.

Your football knowledge sucks. No one here has anything close to the football knowledge of him.

Ok why is that?

Because none of us have the keen intellect and understanding to fully comprehend the NFL like MikeO. He constantly tells everyone that they have no football knowledge.

Well in this case it's not so much believing in Henne as not believing that free agency is the answer. Most teams draft a great QB, very few get one through free agency. It happens, but it's rare.

I read through Armando's article about the QB's out there that *might* be available and I'm unimpressed. Most are west coast types of QB's that don't really fit. Others are well passed their prime. 1 or 2 *might* be an upgrade, but will probably cost more than Miami would/should be willing to pay (They should not use a single draft pick unless it's 5th round or below).

I don't see it happening.

Here is the deal...

Whoever we have behind center this year should be pretty solid.  We added the burner receiver we needed, added the center upgrade we needed, Nate Garner will be back to upgrade our left guard spot, John Jerry will progress from his rookie year and we have a more dangerous running back.

How much better of a setup could there be for a non-elite QB?  They will rarely get touched, have plenty of receiving options and a run first mentality.  I can understand our deficiencies at the tight end postion and the issues that come with installing a new offense may be a drawback but that is about it. 

Even if Daboll is the equivalent of Henning, which I don't think he could be worse, we will still be much improved.  We easily should able to run the ball much better and we won't need to always max protect with our tightends due to our O-line improvements.  As is the case with all teams, we always have to worry about injuries but it isn't like we don't (or won't) have pretty solid depth.

We aren't getting Brady, Manning, Brees or Rivers this year no matter what.  But I think we can win an ass load of games and make a serious run with this roster if our coaches don't puss out on us!  Palmer, Kolb, and Hasselbech are fine upgrades if the cost isn't too great but even Henne or Thigpen could get the job done with this setup.

yay, another game manager at qb!

let's see, wasn't it early 2000's... game manager jay fiedler, solid o-line, great running game, great defense, time of possession, field goal, field position offense. yeah i remember that team. they won how many championships?

hello wannyball 2.0! they should change the logo on the helmets to just mustaches.

I'm worried about running back, fullback, tight end... and our secondary, to some extent. And inside linebacker.

And then there's the big one: playcalling. Really worried about that. On offense as well as defense.

Could we use an upgrade at quarterback? Sure, but it would have to be a major upgrade for it to have much of an effect, IMHO.

I can't fathom how most of you posters are concerned with TE.  I don't know why you think Fasano is a Witten or a Gates when it comes to pass catching.  What he brings to the table is that he is a hell of a blocker and stays in most of the time to protect the QB from getting killed.

I think when you combine the pass/run blocking and catching abilities....he's right up there as one of the most valueable out there.

I think the best off season move was to get a new OC.   Hopefully the phins will air it out more and surprise teams this year.

Dolfan - We have much better receivers (or at least compliment of receivers) than that team had.  Does it matter that much?  I think so.  Plus our head coach may be conservative, but he isn't a moron. 

FYO - I think you are under-rating us a bit.  If you think our team will be a replica of the year before, then I understand your comment but would still disagree.  Better O-line (which I have no doubt we will have) = better run game and we drafted a quality back.  Polite is a quality full back.  Secondary was only weak at the nickel corner spot last year and it was a newbie playing the role, Will Allen is set to return and we drafted that position.  Even tight end isn't bad, we just need more than one.

Cuzzy - Being a hell of a blocker and keeping your QB from getting killed is essentially what I mean by max protect.  This is why we lose!!!  Nobody runs out and draws the safety or clears a linebacker which screws our chances at big plays.  Our tight end sits and waits for someone to rush his side, if nobody comes we are disadvantaged due to numbers, if they do come we only hope the tight end doesn't get outmatched by a more physically dominant player.  I like Fasano too, but he needs a quality counterpart and may be better suited as a second tight end.  Either way, we can't afford to max protect all the time like we have since Henne took over.

Perhaps. Hopefully...

I should probably be more optimistic about Fasano. I'm actually not sure what it is about him... Just seems like he doesn't "make enough plays" and I don't want to quantify that in any way! Just my impression and I'm probably a bit off...

But, I'm not sold on Polite as a blocking fullback. It seemed like he wasn't being used as much in that capacity last season and when he was, the result was mediocre.

With regards to our secondary, I think you're just plain wrong. Our corners dropped a boat load of interceptions and Vontae Davis, in particular, looked bad at times. Our ability to contain passes to tight ends and running backs was horrible, for the umpteenth season in a row. You'd think someone would learn. Part of it seems to be he lack of a true inside linebacker, part of it weakness at safety, and part of it bad playcalling on D.

I'm not down on next season. Far from. I think we addressed some of our biggest needs and a healthy Odrick should give a good boost to the defense. More pressure on the quarterback means less time for our secondary to get burned.

Still, there are a ton of unknowns and I still don't like our depth at pretty much ANY position.

I know it is off topic, but I think this merits a little discussion...

FYO - The good news is we don't outright disagree!  But allow me to make a few points in an effort to improve your, and possibly other's, optimism.

Fasano and Polite are both solid but not outstanding, so there is no need to elaborate on those positions IMO.  We also know that our D-line is dominant and nobody can can really run on us, so I will leave that alone.  That leaves us with discussions on corner backs, safeties and linebackers.

Keep in mind, while you are right that we didn't get the interceptions out of our secondary that we should have (finger pointed at Sean Smith and Chris Clemons), we didn't have a problem with being scored on.  We got turnovers, but not the kind we wanted (we got punts).  Our defense played very well overall last year and had a ranking to back it up.  Take a few of those dropped int's and we are looking like a top tier defense instead of just better than average.

Lets talk corner back.  The only player that really got burned last year was Jason Allen and he is gone.  Benny Sapp got picked on in a few games (particularly on third down), but I truly believe we are going to address that with Will Allen or if we can get our drafted corner up to speed.  So we have Davis, Smith, Allen at corner with backups or possible suprises in Carroll, Wilson and Sapp (maybe).  Can anyone argue that Davis isn't quietly becoming a shut down corner?  When did Sean Smith get burned last year and did he not greatly improve his tackling?  While Allen may not be the #1 corner he used to be, is there any real doubt that he can handle a backup role/nickel corner role well?  Did Carroll not show enough competency as a quality backup?  These are all knowns.

So lets talk safety.  This was really Clemons first year and other than dropping a few picks, he was right where he needed to be nearly every time.  He broke up a ton of plays last year against quality receivers.  Bell is still struggling with great tight ends, but we seem to have found a solution for that by putting Smith against the better receiving tight ends.  Otherwise, Bell is a very quality strong safety.  We saw enough of Jones to say that he can absolutely backup Clemons and maybe even push for a starting job (great depth).  Culver is reliable and well known to us as a backup to Bell.  Everyone is going to remember the one play last year where it appeared Culver was way out of position, but my understanding is that it was the corner's fault (and I think that was Jason Allen).  Sure we don't have a Palamalu or Ed Reed, but not many teams do.  Where are the liabilities (for big plays)?  Compare our combined safety talent to the rest of the league and I can genuinely say we are above average.

Finally, lets talk linebackers.  This is where our depth is an issue.  We had injury problems last year that kept our rookies from getting on the field and Dobbins on it.  But lets focus on what we know.  Where is the weakness in the line up of Wake, Dansby, Crowder and Misi?  You might say Misi, but he is doing his job as an edge setter pretty well and should progress from year one to year two.  You might say Crowder because of last years health issues, but on the field he doesn't get burned downfield and he is ultra physical against the run.  He also didn't get overused last year and there is reason to believe his knee will be better this year.  Dansby and Wake just outright kicked ass last year and there is no reason to believe they won't again.  So that leaves us with depth.  I have to agree that our linebacker depth is concerning.  Dobbins does show a nose for stopping the run and sniffing out screens, but he has to improve in coverage.  We hope that Edds is as advertised in pass coverage, but it is an unknown in the NFL.  Alama-Francis has upside as a backup to Misi and isn't a liability, but his early season illness last year kept us from seeing what he is capable of.  Spitler and Rivera are really just total unknowns.  If I were Sparano, I would really be looking for another pass rusher to backup Wake.  Say what you want about Moses, but pass rushing was a strength of his and may be worth one more year on our squad in a backup role.

So once again I will state it.  If we stay healthy, we have a damned good defense!  IMO, we have good depth at D-line and safety with middle of the road depth at corner and very questionable depth at linebacker.  We have a dominant D-line, a true #1 corner in Davis, a true dominant pass rusher in Wake, a star linebacker in Dansby, a run stuffer in Crowder and a trustworthy set of safeties.  How can you not be optimistic?

Doc, a lot of good arguments, no question.

Let me just get one thing we (mostly) agree on out of the way... linebackers. We have some really great outside linebackers. Definitely top tier in my book. My problem is the one or two inside linebackers (3-4, 4-3). It's not that we need an elite ILB, but what I saw last year just wasn't good enough. They tackle quite well and are quite adept at stopping any runners that get through our D-line, but they're absolutely LOST when they have even the slightest bit of coverage responsibility. Most teams that play the 3-4 seem to have at least 1 inside linebacker who can cover... we don't.

As for our run D... it was very, very good. No question. The one big weakness was "power situations". When you KNOW the other team is going to drill it up through the middle and still can't stop it, that's a problem. I'm hoping Odrick can contribute some of the inside push that got him drafted in the first round. If so, our run D could go from very, very good to great.

Now for some points of disagreement, well, mainly one: Our secondary. The ineptitude of our linebackers to help in coverage stresses our safeties, who don't seem that good to begin with.

Chris Clemons definitely has potential, but I have to admit that when many months pass since the games, I have a hard time remembering who got burned by whom and have to increasingly rely on stats, flawed as they are.

You say we got better at defending against tight ends as the season wore on... that's not my recollection. And the tight ends didn't need to be world class. In general, tight ends and running backs had their way with us ALL SEASON LONG. It was infuriating to watch. Take a look at the number for the last two games of the season:

Loss at home to the Lions: We allowed 222 yards passing, 155 of which came on passes to running backs and tight ends! (And both touchdown passes).

Loss away at New England: We got walloped, but the leading receiver for the Pats was their tight end, with Gronkowsk having a career day (about 50% more yards than in any other game).

For the season, only four teams performed worse against tight than we did. The numbers against running backs were a better, but still solidly in the wrong half.

for this team, if he were to get his head straight, vince young would be ideal.

guy can make plays down field, and he can really put pressure on the defense in being able to run out of the pocket.

right now there is nothing about this dolphins offense that really scares a defense. they can play man on the corners, and just stack the box to stop the run. henne can't make any deep throws, so they are forced to just play in a phone booth. it's magnified when they get into scoring position because henne can't make the throws in tight windows, and everyone is packed in tight.

looking at some vy highlights, it's amazing how much a part of other teams playbooks, how often the qb runs within the 10, 5, whatever scoring range. reminiscent of the spread everyone out, run the qb up the middle td play houston qb schaub has run against us. obviously the fins haven't had many qb's with mobility as of late, but a lot of teams rely heavily on their qb making plays especially when everything is packed in tight within the red zone.

There's no question... if you want a QB change to make a difference, you have to get someone who's a threat on their own.

As I posted elsewhere, there are NO other quarterbacks on the roster right now (not counting the developmental kid, whose name I can't recall). Pennington and Thigpen are free agents. Gone. Could they be resigned? Possibly. I certainly wouldn't mind having Thigpen around. Not too keen on Kolb... Would love to have Carson Palmer, but I don't see him landing in Miami...

Still, I haven't given up on Henne. He's been put in horrible situations by the coaching staff. If everyone watching in a bar knows the playcall, you can bet the opposing team does, too.

If you look at Henne's splits for the 2010 season, what everyone saw on Sundays bears out. When ahead, the Dolphins played it safe with 2 receivers and tight ends kept in. Yet the D still got the pressure. And Henne's performance suffered. Henne's numbers were best with multiple (>2) receivers. Best when trailing. Actually a pretty decent quarterback when the coaches were forced to call some decent plays. When they tightened up and played not to lose... well, that's when everyone in the bar could call out the plays.

If you look back to my original comment on this thread, I don't see how any of these potential free agent acquisitions could really be in anything other than a good situation by coming to Miami.  At the very least we have a good line and a top notch receiver (assuming no legal issues arise).

Hasselbech, Kolb and Palmer are all solid enough as passers that they don't need to be mobile.  Behind our line, I feel any of them would be comfortable in the pocket and excel.  Henne hasn't shown that he is in the same league as these guys IMO.  If we stick with Henne, we have to pray that his passing and decision making improves because he is about as slow moving as they come.

When it comes to Vince Young, there is no doubt the guy has talent and offers that mobility dynamic.  However, I seriously question his competitive spirit and ability to handle the skepticism that has been brewing in Miami for quite some time now.  Not only that, but I how is this guy going to handle the Miami party seen?

If Young comes to Miami, I would be excited and give him the benefit of the doubt but I would always be fearful of his stability.  I can't help but believe that it would actually be better to try and retain Thigpen as a competitive guy who can create with his legs over taking the chance on Vince.

I've seen nothing that convinces me Kolb is better than Thigpen... or Henne, for that matter.

Young is a different kind of guy. Just not sure he'd work out in Miami.

Hasselbech... no thanks. He's completely West Coast Offense and I doubt he'd be any good in Miami, even if he could stay on the field.

Palmer... he's the only one of them I can get excited about. He's not a long-term solution, but he could come in for the next 2-3 years with Henne as the backup. Next year, we'd draft a young stud QB to take over when Palmer called it quits.

I agree with Kolb; the jury is really still out on him.  I really was thinking Orton and put Kolb for some reason.

I really don't see why a west coast QB would be all that bad.  I supose you are wanting lots of go routes, but what are the chances of that with this coaching staff?  Most offenses in the league have a good bit of west coast elements and just lack the terminology.  I can see us moving away from out routes and hook routes and going to quick slants and running back swing routes which is really most of the west coast concept anyway.

Everybody has elements of the west coast offense in their system.  On the face of it a good quarterback is a good quarterback.  However look at what's available via free agency.  They're all either washed up, weren't worth a shit to begin with or can't stay on the field. 

Of them Palmer is the best choice, but even he has an injury history and with all the weapons he had in Cincinnati I gotta wonder just how good he really is.

henne is terrible... maybe he gets magically better, but that's like believing in santa claus or winning the lottery.

what sealed it for me was where fasano was wide freaking open for that touchdown i forget against who. what does henne do on that short, wide open, anyone with a heartbeat could complete for a touchdown pass? throw some sort of shot put, ugly pass, not even in the vicinity of where fasano was at.

it's not the system that is the reason henne is bad. he really is just a bad qb.

A 25 year old QB still developing (26 when season finally starts) is as likely as Santa Claus existing or winning the Lotto?

That sounds fairly crazy to me...

at this rate of development, maybe in 10 years he'll be an adequate game manager.

im not sure what age has to do with it... there are qb's younger than him that are better, there are qb's older than him that are better, hell almost all the qb's in the nfl are better than him right now.

Got it, got it...you  don't like Henne. I was merely commenting on the silliness of considering a 25-year old QB's development as far-fetched as the lotto or Santa Claus.

going only by his performance in his 3 years as qb so far, why is this not so far fetched?

over the last 20 years, for every drew brees that turns it on to another level after 3-4 years of poor play, how many 25 yr old qb's play poorly for 3-4 years and actually end up being bad qb's? 50, 60, 70?

his play so far is beyond putrid. hoping and praying that he will turn into the next drew brees is just as silly at this point.

^^ I say give him another chance.  He regressed last year under the handcuff of suspect play calling and forced Wildcat ineffectiveness.  Confidence has a lot ot do with performance.

Just give the kid another shot...  He's got skills, he just needs to straighten out the lump of clay inside his helmet.

So you have a 50-60-70% chance of winning the lottery? Or a 50-60-70% chance of Santa being real?

And...nobody is hoping and praying he will turn into the next Drew Brees, so the only silliness involved there is assuming that anyone thinks he will. What many of us ARE hoping for (homey doesn't pray) is that, under a new offensive coordinator, with improved offensive weapons, Henne can develop into a solid starter.

Surely even someone wearing the thickest lensed hater-goggles can see that as being within the realm of possibility.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go buy a lotto ticket and write my early Xmas list to Santa...

It would be one thing if there was a Drew Brees or a Kurt Warner on the market.  There isn't.  Any QB we can bring in at this point is either:

a) not appreciably better than Henne, but with less future upside (Hasselbeck, McNabb)
b) way too costly in a trade and a mediocre upgrade at that (Palmer, Kolb, Orton)

At this point, I'm actually happy (well, content) that Henne is staying as QB for another year.  2011 will be the referendum on the Ireland/Sparano/Henne triumvirate.  If Miami does not get a playoff win, those three need to be fired and we can pick up Cowher or Gruden or someone that can win.

This prediction is looking more and more accurate as time goes on.

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2011/05/lacanfora-orton-wont-be-available-either.html

The Fins are sooooooooo screwed next year!

I agree with that article.  YIKES!!!!!

The Browns are gonna cut Jake Dellhome. He is terrible at this stage in his career, but signing a guy like him dirt cheap to backup Henne is such an Ireland/Sparano type of move I could totally see it happening.

Unfortunately, Henne is our best option. There are just no QB's out there that are arguably better, or wouldn't cost a high draft pick. This is Henne's last shot. He has a new OC and no expectations as NO ONE expects Miami to win more than 6 games, so it's now or never.

Thankfully, Henne and the Fins have been able to work hard together this offseason to improve their offensive performance and learn the new playbook.  OH YEAH, NEVER MIND.  I guess they haven't done squat of any real importance yet because of the lockout.  I suppose there's very little chance of a training camp to help things along.  I just don't see how Henne has any chance to succeed at all if and when the NFL commences the season.  Of course, no one else they bring in is going to be able to get much of a leg up on him because they will have even less familiarity and time with the system than he does.

Jake Dellhome played for Daboll in Cleveland. He knows the playbook!

At this point in their respective careers, I'd rather go with Henne than Delhomme...and that's saying something.  That being said, I don't have a problem with the Fins stockpiling QBs, though.