The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

If we trade those pics who are we going to get Barkley and t. Richardson.

I don't get it.

Ask Brandon LLoyd and Brandon Marshall if he's worth it. -EK

I wish this discussion would die. He isn't going anywhere.

I agree. Dumb move on both sides, but I agree. Since it won't go away though, I still think Orton is an upgrade over what we have and worth a 3rd round pick easily. -EK

I think the only people it hasn't gone away from are the people not paying attention. Orton is getting the first team reps, Tebow is getting bashed by the media, Denver paid Orton his roster bonus, etc.

The Broncos appear more likely to trade Tebow at this point than Orton.  And I don't see them doing that any time soon.

I wish this conversation would go away.  Orton was never really an option, and not a huge upgrade for the price.

Is he worth a 3rd? I guess. But we need to be able to draft a qb high next year and that's the only way. We'll need a 3rd to trade up.
Ur snortin if u want orton

WOuld love to revist this post mid-season. Orton's better than anyone we've had on the roster since Dan. -EK

Jay Glazer reported last week if we would have meet Orton's contract demands we could have had him for a conditional 4th that wouldn't have gone higher than a 3rd.

He isn't worth our fourth
We need all four pics to wheel and deal for t Richardson and m Barkley

If you don't think he is worth a 4th, you don't understand NFL Football in the year 2011

Key word OUR fourth. That 4th rd pick means alot to this organization !!I believe orton is worth a 3rd... We just need high draft picks next year and can't afford that

I'd rather have Orton than Barkley anyway.  We already have a good idea what Marshall and Orton can do together.

I'd have given that 4th round pick for Orton in a second...and then laughed hysterically at Denver for putting themselves in a position where they have to use Tebow this season.

^^^^

+1 couldn't have said it any better so why try!!!!!!

We have used 3rd round picks on Patrick Turner and Jon Jerry.

Turner didn't last a year. Jon Jerry is probably gonna be cut in a few weeks cause he showed up overweight and way way out of shape and has been passed on the depth chart by guys we are picking up off the street. 

YET, WE CAN'T TRADE a 3rd or a 4th ROUND PICK FOR A STARTING QB!!! Amazing logic!

I still don't get why we tried to re-work Orton's deal. Let him play out the final year of his deal, IF he is great you franchise tag him. If he is so-so you just make him a fair offer since nobody would really be knocking down his door. Why was that so tough?!?!?! 

Because while Orton is an upgrade at QB, he definitely isn't good enough to warrant a franchise tag.

You would ONLY tag him next year IF he played at a high level THIS season.  ::)

If he stunk or was just average, you let him walk via free agency (what did it cost you a 4th or 3rd round pick) or you resign him as a free agent at a reasonable price.

It's not that difficult. If we had a history of doing great in the draft, it would make sense to hold onto the picks. Considering we blow so many draft picks, give me a "sure thing" at QB for 1 year for a mid-round pick

not sure orton cared to go to a team without a long term deal. for that he preferred to stay in denver.

MikeO, the point of keeping picks is not for the picks themselves.  It's so that we have chips to trade so we can move up into a better position in the first round when we pick our QB.

lol, we screw up picks in every round. Having a valid QB on the roster is worth more than the abililty to trade up

He had no say in it  ::)

He didn't have a no-trade clause

ur not going to give up picks for a guy to come in, lead your team, and not be happy with his contract. sure he had no formal say in it, but the reality is that if you are going to pull the trigger for a starter, you have to go all in with a commitment.

He's making 8.8 million, he isn't happy????? lol, if he has a good year he becomes a free agent and makes a boatload of money and can pick his team. OR he is franchised and makes around $14 mill. WIN-WIN for Orton!! Why wouldn't he be happy??? WHATS NOT TO BE HAPPY ABOUT!!  Think stuff through!

Why do we have to go all in? Did we go all in on Gus Ferrorte? Or Trent Green? Stop Gap guys, sure Orton would have cost us a 4th round pick or so, big deal, we waste those picks anyway!!

he wanted a multi-year deal. this was reported all along the negotiations. he was tired of bouncing around from team to team and wanted a commitment.

new contract = new guaranteed money. kolb got what 23 mil guaranteed, and his thinking was if he was going to go to a new team he wanted some commitment.

this wasn't a one sided negotiation, and orton had plenty to say here.

does he have a multi-year deal now? What's your point again...  ::)

choice: one year deal with some team that you know nothing about with one month to learn a new playbook, or one year deal where you already have a history and know the system.

orton chose to just stay put if it was going to be a one year deal.

if you have one chance to earn a new multi-year deal, probably going to stay where you have the biggest head start.

you should read darlington's article today on the matter that lists the facts behind what happened.  http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/08/05/2345910/miami-dolphins-chad-henne-in-charge.html (http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/08/05/2345910/miami-dolphins-chad-henne-in-charge.html)

note this fact:

"• Trade compensation wasn’t a major holdup. The teams did discuss a trade package, and although they hadn’t yet met in the middle, they weren’t far enough apart to hold up the deal. If Orton agreed to a new contract, a compromise was coming."

or how about this fact:

"• Orton had the leverage. He wanted more money and more years than the Dolphins were comfortable giving to a player who hadn’t even won the starting job. And he had no real reason to back down. Again, he’s a free agent in 2012."

the dolphins were scared off by orton's contract demands.

A valid QB for what could be one year only. That is a horrible trade if you ask me and I assume most everyone here.

We might as well face facts people, obviously Ireland and Sparano either didn't think that much of Orton or they think more of Henne then what you are willing to accept. The fact is they weren't convinced that Orton would be that big of an upgrade or they would have done whatever was necessary to get him. Honestly, I'm not convinced he would have been either. It's also possible Matt Moore is a lot better than people are giving him credit for. I understand he looked pretty good last night in practice.

saw some film on him in 2009, and he isn't half bad... if henne doesn't show any improvement in the pre-season, moore may see a lot more action than people think.

I have a friend who thinks Moore wins the job before camp is over.

Moore is slightly more polished than Henne and has less pressure on him. That alone gives him the edge in my book. If he has a decent preseason don't be shocked if he wins the job. Will also settle down the angry fan base some as well.

 ::) Orton didn't choose anything. If Denver trades him to Seattle, or Buffalo, or wherever tommorow morning HE CAN'T STOP IT!!! He has to go! That's the point!

Miami didn't want to trade for him, its not about Orton and what Orton wants. Orton has NO SAY in the matter!!

Ask Chris Johnson or Osi Umenyiora if Kyle Orton has a say in the matter.

you obviously didn't read darlington's report on the facts. here, since you don't read, i will point out the facts in the report for you:

"• Trade compensation wasn’t a major holdup. The teams did discuss a trade package, and although they hadn’t yet met in the middle, they weren’t far enough apart to hold up the deal. If Orton agreed to a new contract, a compromise was coming."

"• Orton had the leverage. He wanted more money and more years than the Dolphins were comfortable giving to a player who hadn’t even won the starting job. And he had no real reason to back down. Again, he’s a free agent in 2012."

this was about orton's contract demands, and not trade compensation.

Orton had (has) no say in any trade.

However, since the Dolphins would've had to give up a pick (possibly as high as a 2nd rounder), its likely that Ireland balked at that, unless a long term deal could be worked out with Orton. Trading a good pick for what amounts to a 1-year lease... that's pretty expensive.

As MikeO pointed out earlier, the way around the 1-year lease would be to franchise him. However, there's a pretty substantial jump between "good enough to stick around" and "franchise player (salary)".

You can post the same thing over and over it doesn't change anything....or change my mind

Or just let him play out the final year of his deal and sign him as a FA, the franchise tag is only is if he is really good. Why is that so tough?? If he is THAT good in 2011, you will want to pay him. He will WANT to stay and not keep jumping around. Win-Win.

The trade could have easily been made without a long-term deal in place. You have ALL season to work that out. For the most important position in all of sports, its worth the risk.

Oh well, they didn't do it. Better pray Henne turns it around or else back to being a Scout for Ireland and back as an o-line coach for Sparano!

hey just ignore the facts that's fine...

they couldn't agree to a multi-year contract, that's why this deal fell through.

That's a risk, however, and if the risk is higher and the reward the same... something would have to give -- and that would be compensation to the Broncos. To me, it seems like Ireland wasn't willing to part with a 2nd/3rd round pick for the risk involved.

Quarterbacks with success are always attractive in free agency. Let him play out his contract would mean a very big risk of getting outbid for his services.

Not a shot at you, but THIS is the type of logic that has caused this franchise to fall from grace and have a decade of being one of the 3 worst teams in the sport. No balls. Affraid to take a risk. No guts.

Im not disagreeing with the facts, I'm saying Ireland/Sparano/Ross or whoever had a part in making that decision is a total and utter moron!! It's bad football. It's bad decision making.

They don't get it. They think they can win in this league with a piss poor QB, ball control and strong defense.....good luck! The league has changed, it can't happen anymore!! It doesn't work. Orton isn't the 2nd coming, but he is light years better than anyone we got. To say otherwise is foolish. 20 TD's and 9 INT's on a bad team last year. Proof is there!

Apparently, I used too much subtlety in my previous post.

Players have the option of holding out when they don't wish to play under the contract they currently have.  You can see two current examples of this in Chris Johnson and Osi Umenyiora.

Therefore, it would be grade-A idiotic to trade away picks for an (unhappy) player, not sign him to a new contract, and potentially risk him holding out until Week 9.  If you trade draft picks for a player with one year remaining on his contract, you'd better be damned sure that he will choose to play that full year.

You hold out in the new CBA you lose $30,000 a day. Osi is at camp, he has a sprained knee. IS he lying maybe, who knows. Johnson is gonna pay a ton when he returns. The new CBA put an end to the "holdout" unless the player is a total moron.

Nice try, NEXT....

hey i agree... but ultimately i think it'll be an important fact to point out that this regime passed on orton not because of draft picks, but because of money.

Considering they are around $9 mill under the cap, if they re-did Solai's contract they woudl be $15 mill under the cap, that makes the decesion EVEN WORSE!!!!

I just want to point out that Henne has been lighting it up in practice since the "We Want Orton!" crap went down the other day.  Take it for what it's worth...I wanted Orton too, but I'm not about to give up on this season.  This is Henne's make or break year...he has an OC that's playing to his strength (west coast type offense with short and intermediate passes), a ton of weapons to throw too...He's set up for success this year.  It is very possible he could suck out, but I think the pieces are in place for him to have a solid season.

As Allen Iverson would say......."We talkin about Practice"

+1. 

And even if a player doesn't formally hold out.  He can make things very uncomfortable for a team.  See Moss, Haynesworth, Brandon Marshall, etc. 

Cue DeSean Jackson... After holding out for 11 days (ensuring a $330,000 fine), Jackson just reported to camp to avoid losing a year of service towards free agency.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp11/story/_/id/6839738/desean-jackson-report-philadelphia-eagles-monday-report-says

^^^ exactly. Thank you

So what do you do if Orton pulls a Haynesworth and says he won't play?  Or pops up with a mysterious injury?

No matter how you slice it, you can't make an unhappy player play (well).  Acting like Miami could simply force Orton to play is absurd.

P.S. Last I checked, Chris Johnson is still holding out.

Now Orton is Haynesworth...lol

great analogy ::)

How about Orton as Chris Johnson?

I figure, if I keep saying his name over and over, you'll eventually acknowledge that he is actually holding out.

edit: And then there is this: (http://www.nfl.com/trainingcamp/story/09000d5d821442c4/article/sidelined-umenyiora-day-to-day-with-hurt-knee-says-coughlin)

EAST RUTHERFORD, N.J. -- Two-time Pro Bowl defensive end Osi Umenyiora watched the New York Giants practice on Friday for the sixth straight day while his contract dispute with the team continues.

For the second straight day, the Giants said the 29-year-old Umenyiora did not practice because the player said one of his knees hurt.

Umenyiora did not report for the opening day of training camp a week ago Friday because he said general manager Jerry Reese had promised to renegotiate his contract. The deal has two years remaining and will pay the nine-year veteran $7.1 million. He came to camp the next day but has yet to practice.

So yeah, Miami could totally force Orton to report to camp.  And then he'd sit on the sideline with an "injury."

Time to move on....

Orton isn't Chris Johnson either. Sorry!  ::)

I'm glad we didn't get orton
he's a bonafide overated bum