The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

Is this a rumor? I was just talking football with someone and he was telling me that u guys were going to pick him up?

Oh God, I hope not.

John Beck >>>> Tim Tebow

He sucks. But he has "faith" and "...is a leader...", so he should be put in the hall of fame I guess.

Word.

I'm sure he's great in the locker room and a "winner", but I just don't think it's enough.  He may find a way to stay in the league for a while, but I don't ever expect him to be a viable starting QB for a team with a title shot.

Speculation and completely false.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2011-08-07/sports/os-diaz-tebow-dolphins-0808-20110807_1_tim-tebow-kyle-orton-denver-qb

Just like the rumors last week that we were chasing Favre (thanks to a similarly speculative article by Dave Hyde)

Thank God

Tebow sucks.......I am glad this turned out to be bullshit.

NFL Network did a huge thing on it last night. Everyone thought Miami should go get him.

Michael Lombardi had harsh words on the Fins. He said if we don't try to get him we are nuts. That our QB position is bad, we have no face of the franchise, and we have to get a young QB to groom instead of keep putting it off year after year.

Year after year after year they try to get someone new.  Is Lombardi not paying attention to the sheer number of QBs Miami has had in the 12 years since Marino retired?

Michael Lombardi is the one who's nuts...


Agree and agree...but we need a QB, not a college rah-rah boy whose most marketable skill is the ability to snip the foreskins off third world weiners.

again, I loathe sports media

Tebow would be a great face for the franchise.  Yes.
He would be extremely marketable down here.  Yes.

But, he isn't a good enough football player to lead our team.

Miami hasn't used a 1st round pick or made a big move to get one in the draft. And they passed on Matt Ryan the year he fell in their laps!!

At some point you gotta go for it, give up the picks mortgage the future, move up and get your guy. OR when you are  picking high in Rd 1 draft a stinking QB!!!

Young FUTURE QB's. Gus Ferrorte, AJ Feeley, Jay Fiedler, Chad Pennington, Damon Huard..etc  don't fall into that category.

John Beck, Pat White, and Chad Henne in Rd 2 are our only shots at taking QB's somewhat high and all have been huge failures

I think he would work in Miami.. well when you guys had williams and brown. He's a perfect wildcat QB.. good running and throwing no more the 15 yard passes. But I agree he's a bust.

Using a 1st round pick on a QB doesn't guarantee success.  It guarantees more pain in the (highly likely) event that he's a bust.

Just ask the Chargers and Ryan Leaf.

Or ask Drew Brees (Rd 2) or Tom Brady (Rd 6) if there is any correlation between draft slot and success.

If you are hoping to land the next Tom Brady in Rd 6, good luck. Look at the current TOP QB's in the NFL today and tell me what they have in common......Peyton, Rivers, Big Ben, Rodgers, Eli, Vick, Ryan, Cutler, Flacco, ...etc ROUND 1 PICKS!

To try and do it another way, is like trying to win the lottery. Good friggin luck! The blueprint is out there, find a QB in Rd 1 you like, and do whatever it takes to get him. And if one falls in your lap (like Rodgers did in GB), never pass him up!!!

Of course taking a QB in Rd 1 is no guarntee. Nothing is. But if you have a good scouting dept, a good GM and coach.....you do your homework and find your guy. You gotta have some balls to win in this league. Can't run around scared affraid to take a QB in Rd 1 cause he MIGHT be a bust!!

There are just as many good QB's taken in rounds 2-7, and even more BAD QB's taken in round 1. 

JaMarcus Russell, Vince Young, Brady Quinn, Matt Leinart, Jason Campbell, JP Losman, Byron Leftwich, Kyle Boller, Rex Grossman, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey, Tim Couch, Akili Smith, Cade McNown....

All first round picks.

And all those teams were terrible for years after wasting that first round pick on a highly scouted yet underperforming QB.

So the Lions, Browns, Raiders, Bengals, Bills and Redskins (all TERRIBLE franchises) made bad picks in Rd 1 when it came to QB's. SHOCKING!!! And the good teams made GOOD picks in Rd 1!!!

Stop the presses, you are making headlines here!!

Thats why you hire a good GM and hire good scouts and let them do their homework and make the pick!! It's really not that complicated of a scenerio. Lots of teams do it.

No, there aren't "just as many."  Not even close.

Let's look at the top 33 QBs in the league according to ESPN's "Total Quarterback Rating" stat.  (The details of the stat itself aren't really important, as a clear trend emerges.)  I have bolded all QBs taken in the first round.

1    2010    Tom Brady    NE    607    76.0
2    2010    Peyton Manning    IND    779    69.5
3    2010    Matt Ryan    ATL    709    68.6
4    2010    Aaron Rodgers    GB    627    67.9
5    2010    Michael Vick    PHI    547    66.6
6    2010    Drew Brees    NO    760    65.9
7    2010    Eli Manning    NYG    654    64.3
8    2010    Josh Freeman    TB    626    63.5
9    2010    Philip Rivers    SD    667    63.2
10    2010    Ben Roethlisberger    PIT    500    59.8
11    2010    Tony Romo    DAL    251    58.1
12    2010    Joe Flacco    BAL    647    58.1
13    2010    Matt Schaub    HOU    678    57.8
14    2010    David Garrard    JAC    510    57.3
15    2010    Kerry Collins    TEN    342    56.0
16    2010    Matt Cassel    KC    566    51.2
17    2010    Ryan Fitzpatrick    BUF    551    48.7
18    2010    Mark Sanchez    NYJ    619    47.4
19    2010    Carson Palmer    CIN    720    46.7
20    2010    Colt McCoy    CLE    290    46.6
21    2010    Kyle Orton    DEN    612    46.6
22    2010    Jon Kitna    DAL    409    46.1
23    2010    Shaun Hill    DET    499    44.8
24    2010    Jason Campbell    OAK    479    43.8
25    2010    Jay Cutler    CHI    596    42.6
26    2010    Matt Hasselbeck    SEA    547    42.4
27    2010    Chad Henne    MIA    604    41.4
28    2010    Donovan McNabb    WAS    596    41.0
29    2010    Sam Bradford    STL    732    41.0
30    2010    Alex Smith    SF    426    40.0
31    2010    Derek Anderson    ARI    387    35.9
32    2010    Brett Favre    MIN    459    25.8
33    2010    Jimmy Clausen    CAR    397    11.7

Of the top ten QBs, eight were taken in the first-round.  That's not a coincidence, nor a fluke.

Now, if you want to argue that picking a first-round QB doesn't guarantee anything, or even that first round QBs are more likely to fail than succeed, that's fine.  But first-rounders are far more likely to succeed than QBs taken in later rounds.  It's not even close.

Most of those teams were terrible for years before drafting the qbs.  And i believe a couple of those teams went to the super bowl within a couple years of drafting those players. The titans made the playoffs 2 out of vy's first three years. AZ went to the super bowl a couple years after leinart was drafted. And leftwich was such a bust? they went 5-11, 9-7, 12-4 his first three years. And then you list qbs who were drafted to the same team. 

More likely, the good franchises were able to provide the surroundings needed for a quarterback to be a success. A bad team could pick the best quarterback out there and completely ruin him. The problem in that context is that we are a bad team. We don't bring along our quarterback prospects well, for whatever reason. Whether that's throwing them under the bus after a few games on a team that's already given up, poor coaching, game-planning, protection, whatever. Until we fix that, we're not going to have a good, young quarterback.

Bingo!
 
Picking a QB in the first round does NOT mean he will be a superstar.  You have to have a team around him. 

Look at the top 10 or 12 guys on Spider-Dan's list.  Know what they all have in common?  Surroundings.

As a professional analyst with a mathematics background, I would just like to point out how extremely insightful and ingenious Spider Dan's previous statement was:


Very excellent sir!

Good QB's make the players around them better. Take Peyton Manning off the Colts and they are lucky to win 3 games with that squad.

Put Peyton on the Fins, Bills, or some other bottom tier team and they are in the playoffs.

If you changed "good" in that example to "great," I'd buy it a bit more. The example you used (Manning), you could even swap out good for "arguably the greatest QB to ever play the game."

Good QBs don't make players around them better, but great ones do. Jeff Garcia was a good QB who had little to no effect on his teammates in SF. The Niners' two QBs prior to Garcia were great QB's (Montana/Young), and they both made their teammates a lot better.

I still wouldn't buy it in the exact form he presented it. He said that Indy wouldn't win 3 games, I doubt that. I still think they would be a decent team even without Peyton and win maybe 7 or 8 games. He also said the Bills would make the playoffs, but I don't buy it. Buffalo's problems last year went far beyond QB play, their QB wasn't exactly playing that badly, just adding Peyton I don't think would have got them into the playoffs.

Good or great, both miss the point entirely, IMHO.

It's certainly possible for a bad team to improve drastically by importing a good veteran quarterback. The problem is, that might get you only a year or two (see Pennington, Chad). Actually developing a young player -- even a top draft pick -- is an entirely different proposition.

i would trade henne for Tebow any day

And this is why I am glad you are a casual fan and not an NFL GM because as bad as everyone thinks Henne is Tebow is going to be even worse. You and Tepop may be the only two who would pull the trigger on that trade.

LOL, I bet 90% of NFL gms would trade Henne for Tebow.

LOL...I'd bet that you're 100% full of shit, but I can't find any bookie who will take the action. ;)

Bottom line...both Henne and Tebow are probably best suited as backups. One (Tebow) is just a more expensive and more overhyped backup than the other.

Tebow has a rockstar entourage,Henne has lynch mob...and neither deserve it.... :D

I guess you don't believe in practice either then because Henne has been better in practice than Tebow has been so far this year and that's not up for debate. Tebow is in danger of being demoted to 3rd string behind Brady Quinn and Henne has clearly been the best Dolphin QB.

Wrong.

Put Peyton AS A ROOKIE on any of those teams, and he's out of the league and selling insurance by now.  No doubt.

Peyton was on a terrible team as a rookie. The Colts were 3-13 games and he threw 28 INTs. Your theory holds no water!

whooooaaaaa the great manning threw how many INTS ???

wonder if Indie was booing him back then

I think Brian is arguing that Indy's front office eventually ended up surrounding him with good pieces, whereas Buffalo's front office would not have done the same.

its a weak argument considering they traded away Marshall Faulk  on Peyton after his 1st year! He was Peyton's only weapon!

peyton makes nobody receivers look like all pro's.

peyton is the kind of qb where you can have a revolving door at left tackle, and it's not a big deal.

the colts were nothing until they drafted peyton manning. to say that he wouldn't have had success with other organizations is pretty silly.

they traded faulk and got edgerrin lmfao

Well to be honest, Henne has proven that he sux ass. At least give Tebow a chance to prove that he is even worse than Henne. I kinda think you're just jumping the gun and assuming at this point. You know what they say about assumptions !!!

One was a hall of fame player the other was good but not on the level of Faulk.

YEP! Agree 100%

um r u serious ???

very! James was a nice player but he isn't sniffing the hall of fame. If you want put up Edge James career vs Faulk's I will do that any day of the week and twice on Sunday

so what #s u wanna compare because all faulk has really over edge is receiving yards and a super bowl ring which is edge woulda stuck around indy 1 more year he woulda got it, plus he had i think 2 knee injuries, i think played 2 less years and is right behind marshall in total rushing yards

I will help your case, throw out the super bowl rings. Lets just do stats, Faulk wins.. And sorry injuries (DURABLITY) is a factor that slants HUGE in the way of Faulk. It matters!

Faulk > Edge....and its not even cloase. Edge can go vist Faulk's bust in the Hall of Fame though like everyone else!

besides the receiving yards lets look at rushing, the receiving for faulk is all system oritented as far as i'm concerned

G       GS       Att        Yds     TD    Lng    Y/A    Y/G    A/G     Rec      Yds     Y/R    TD  Lng    R/G    Y/G    YScm     RRTD  Fmb    AV
148    135    3028    12246    80     72    4.0    82.7    20.5    433    3364    7.8    11    60    2.9    22.7    15610     91      44    136
176    156    2836    12279    100   71    4.3    69.8    16.1    767    6875    9.0    36    85    4.4    39.1    19154    136     36    165

Tebow's a gamer. He's performed well in all NFL games hes started and did his thing TONIght

I'd pick Tebow over henne any day

Yeah, he did his thing tonight....... against guys who will be sitting in the bars drinking beer with us at the end of the month. 

LMAO

This response isnt to you landshark. It's for guys with an unbiased view of the situation. He played in 3 NFL games last year to end the season and outperformed Henne in all of them.

Two were against solid defenses in the raiders and chargers.


And if anyone wants to say throw those games out because of the lack of playoff implications... You're discounting the importance that players put in inter divisional rivalries.

The chargers and raiders never have an off day vs the broncos (in terms of effort). They want those games just like we want the jets games
And Tebow played well.
Gimme the improvising left paw sensation over the robotic clown anyday

You can't take away the recieving yards. Thats like saying take away the home runs and Jeter is better than Babe Ruth!

You want to "cherry pick" stats to make your argument stronger. You can't do that. Recieving stats count. Sorry!!!! That is what makes Faulk a MUCH better weapon than James. Which was the original point in this debate. The Colts took away Peyton's BEST weapon and replaced him with a lesser one.

The 49ers replaced Joe Montana with a lesser QB...but that didn't mean that Steve Young sucked.

"Lesser" is a relative thing... Edgerrin James was an excellent RB. Manning really didn't take much of a hit with that swap.

Not as a rookie.

And this is the whole point... some teams develop their quarterback prospects, give them the tools, the practice, the support, the time. Other teams repeatedly pick top prospects and flush them.

I have zero confidence in the Dolphins' management in that respect. This is actually why I want them to stick with Henne, even though I think it's likely that he won't develop into the kind of quarterback we need long term. If Henne is flushed now, it just shows that we're among the teams who cannot possibly develop a quarterback, regardless of the talent.

If we are such a team... well... then I say we package a bunch of picks and trade for a VERY good established (but not old) quarterback. (Providing we can find one to pry lose somewhere.)

the colts developed how many qb's over the history of their franchise? miami developed marino? the guy just slung it around the practice field better than anyone had ever seen.

no one develops qb's in the nfl anymore. that is primarily tebow's problem he now faces too. developing a qb takes years of investment to even figure out if you have something that is going to work, that quite frankly today's nfl regimes can't make. they mostly are in an out in a matter of 3 years.

hell, mularkey is the oc in atlanta... did he all of the sudden become an offensive/qb guru between his stint in miami and atlanta? no, they got matt ryan.

miami's problem is that they haven't been drafting qb's in the first round regularly enough to hit on the type of talent that can rapidly be a successful nfl starter.

The problem is that he's a much better runner than passer and the Dolphins already have enough running backs, they don't need a QB that can run. Those guys don't last unless they can transition into good passers and I just don't see that happening with Tebow.

Mike, I think what he's trying to say is that Faulk went from a system where the back catches a lot of passes (Indy) to another (St Louis).  To whit, he caught 52,56,56,47, and 86 passes during his years with the Colts, moved into a "similar" system, and caught 87, 81, 83, 80 passes the next 4 years.  James came in to Indy, caught 62, 63, 24 (injured), 61, 51, 51, 44, then moved to Arizona where he caught 38, 24, and 12 the next few years.  Why?  Different system.  Had James somehow ended up in a Mike Martz system, he may very well have caught 80 passes each season.  Edge and Faulk's numbers while in Indy were actually quite similar.

Edge is making the HOF. 

Tebow has a documented history of having problems reading defenses.  Tebow came from a simple offense that allowed him one or two reads, after which he was off running (not exactly the NFL QB way).  Tebow plays like a LB and takes (relishes?) contact.  This makes him an injury risk.  Tebow is not very accurate, from everything I'm reading.  Tebow is having his ass handed to him by Kyle Orton, whom many (and I mean many) analysts say isn't much better than Chad Henne (and Orton's QBR or 52.9, a paltry upgrade over Henne's 51.1, would seem to substantiate the claim).
By any measurable metric, how can anyone seriously pine for Tebow?

mike u do that

u forget that faulk was on the offense that was labeled "the greatest show on turf"

faulk is not a WR can u say faulk was the best reciving RB of all time, maybe u can, but as far as RUSHING u cannot say faulk is better then edge

edge has 4 seasons over 1500 yards rushing, how many does faulk have ???

Funny that you mention that.  Henne also played against the Raiders (who apparently have "solid defense") in a game with playoff implications.  Let's compare Henne and Tebow's stat lines:

Henne- 17/30, 307, 2 TD, 1 INT
Tebow- 8/16, 138, 1 TD, 0 INT

That's outperforming?  Are you using the Trent Dilfer performance scale?

I was watching the game last night when Babe Laufenberg (Cowboys announcer and former NFL QB) said that he'd never seen anyone look worse in pre-game warmups than Tebow did last night. He said that he was skipping the ball in and overthrowing receivers and this was with no defensive players around. He apparently did OK once he got into the game, I'm just pointing out what everyone who watches Tebow in practice says, that his accuracy is terrible. Maybe he is a gamer, but he's gonna have to fix his accuracy problems before anyone is gonna make him their permanent starter.

I can't believe this is even a discussion anymore. Henne has shown that he is not a very good QB by lackluster play and game losing mistakes and he has been consistent at it. Now everyone is bashing Tebow and he hasn't even had a chance to fail like Henne. Kinda like the Thigpen situation last year as far as I'm concerned....

Do you think it's a coincidence that Belichick managed to develop Matt Cassel?

It's probably not worthwhile (for anyone) to try and divine anything from examples like Manning and Marino. Sure, there are elements you could point to (like Manning's horrible first season), but considering that these guys are two of the top all-time passers in the game... no, not worth it.

You are right that it takes time to develop a good quarterback.

Let me ask you, what do you think a guy like Carr could have become had he been sitting as Brady's backup instead of Cassel? Instead, he wound up a rookie starter and punching bag in Houston behind a horrible line. He just never got the chance to develop into a star. As it was, he had a very solid career starting 5 years in a row (missing a handful of games to injury). Impressive under the circumstances.

What about Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay? IMHO, he's one of the best quarterbacks in the league right now (not the best) and with his best years ahead of him. How do you honestly think he would have done had he gone to Cleveland instead of Green Bay? Or even to the Dolphins... I'm completely confident we would have wrecked him completely. If lucky, we'd have gotten a few mediocre years out of him after which he'd be bouncing around the league trying to get a backup gig.

My point is that surroundings matter. A lot. Without the right circumstances in place, the criteria for picking (someone who becomes) a "great quarterback" go from tough to neigh-impossible.

I'd love to see Miami try to develop their quarterbacks. To try and put a system in place that plays to the strengths of our quarterbacks, helps them improve, and supports them. And if a player doesn't succeed under those conditions, fine, by all means draft a new prospect. But don't throw away a player after a handful of starts on a team that's already given up.

belichick didn't develop matt cassel. he identified cassel as having the right skill set to be a succesful nfl qb in a short amount of time.

look, it's going to become even more important now to id the right guy as quickly as possible. there is no more a significant penalty to roll the dice on the new qb's coming into the league at the top of the draft.

more qb's are going to go real early in the draft, and more will be recycled out of the league at a faster pace.

btw, there is a reason why guys like carr, beck, lienart, etc... all play bad. they really actually suck as qb's and no amount of "development" is going to make them perform any better.

dolfan13, do you think that it's an amazing coincidence that "good" QBs all seem to have competent front offices?

Surely you can't believe that environment has nothing to do with which QBs fail and succeed.

i think good front offices realize that the most important decision they have to make is to hit on is a qb. first thing pioli does is go out and get a qb in kansas city. same thing with dimetrioff in atlanta.

where was belichick's god like football coach abilities in cleveland? what about mularkey when he was here with the fins? coaches and their systems get way too much credit here.

the dolphins approach to finding a qb post-marino has been to shop at the dollar store, where other organizations shop at nordstrom's.

atlanta v dolphins is a perfect example of the different philosophies here. dolphins approach is circa 1980's, big, strong, mauler type linemen, interior players, defense, etc... plug in a qb. atlanta approach is find a qb first, and then put then pieces around him. dolphins are still swimming in mediocrity and atlanta is on the verge of being a consistent super bowl contender.

You know who else had the philosophy of "find a QB first"?

Oakland
Cleveland
Tennessee
San Francisco
Houston

But somehow, I doubt you're going to bring up Vince Young or Brady Quinn when it comes to the importance of prioritizing a QB.

Thigpen had his chances. Not a lot of them, but he had his chances and he failed miserably in the couple chances that he had to start games. Tebow has had some chances too and according to you he's done pretty well, but the reality is that he hasn't done much more than Henne has as a passer. The best plays that Tebow has had, he's done with his legs, not with his arm. I'm sorry, but no that's not what I want. We have running backs that can run, we don't need the QB to do that.

And why is it that with such a limited sample size you and so many other Dolphin fans are so ready to discard Henne?  So we can start anew with another (essentially) rookie and watch him struggle, and then clamor for another rookie, and another, and another?  Especially when the league is filled with examples of players struggling through the early parts of their careers and ultimately succeeding?  Need I bring up Steve Young (3-8 TD/INT ratio in 1985, 8/13 in 1986 while with Tampa Bay), Troy Aikman ( 9/18 in 1989, 11/18 in 1990, 11/10 in 1991), John Elway (7/14 in 1983, 18/15 in 1984, 22/23 in 1985), Drew Brees (1/0 in 2001, 17/16 in 2002, 11/15 in 2003)?  I could go on forever, if you don't mind including guys that were not HOF guys but solid QBs (Randall Cunningham, Steve McNair, Rich Gannon, etc...)

All Henne has shown so far is that he's young.  In looking at other QBs that struggled, years 3 and 4 seemed to be when the light went on for many, so I'm reserving judgment for at least another year.  I'm certainly not going to clamor for other guys that will give us a few more years of growing pains!

you could go on way more than that if you look at the other side as well. that is the amount of qb's that struggled early on in their careers that actually ended up being crappy qb's.

^^^That is definitely true, but it does not change the fact that until year 3 or 4 many excellent QBs struggled, and many of the catastrophe QBs had fully melted down by this point (I'm thinking of Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, Jamarcus Russell).  You just knew those guys weren't going to pan out.

Henne, on the other hand, has numbers that are consistent with guys that got it (and others who never went on to be stars but also didn't flame out, either).  The point is we don't know yet, and openly pining for the next friggin' rookie is just going to set this team and its very talented defense back 3 more years.  I sure as hell know I don't want any part of a QB that has yet to go through the growing pains and, in addition, needs to still learn to be a pro-style QB (as in, learn how to drop back, read defenses, find the third or fourth option, throw with proper motion).  Tebow needs too much work, and I'd rather it not be the Dolphins that end up suffering from his growing pains.

Plus, have I mentioned he's a friggin' Gator?   ;D

Thigpen was good against the Patriots.  Of course, I am sure you are basing this 100% off his performance vs. chicago where he went from 3rd string on sunday, to starting against a good defense on thursday, with a injured offensive line, and brandon marshall not playing half the game. Of course, Henne still had 3 or 4 games worse than Thigpens start against chicago.

+1


I for one think it's too early to give up on Henne you hit the nail on the head with he is young. Hopefully this new offense will open things up for him a little. If we don't see some considerable improvement this year then we need to move on.

I'd like to see you name them.  There were only 3 games in which Henne played the entire game and did not throw for both better accuracy and more yards than Thigpen's 17/29, 187yd, 0 TD, 1 INT outing vs. CHI (I would say a better INT:TD ratio, but Thigpen's INT:TD ratio was infinity in that game):

Win @OAK- 17/30, 307yd, 2 TD, 1 INT
Win @NYJ- 5/18, 55yd, 1 TD, 0 INT
Loss vs. CLE- 16/32, 174yd, 1 TD, 3 INT

The OAK game was clearly better and the CLE game was clearly worse.  The NYJ game is a wash (as long as you are ignoring the results).

So I look forward to hearing which "3 or 4" games Henne had that were worse than Thigpen's CHI start.

After the game was already lost and the Patriots had already quit playing or were laughing so hard it was tough for them to cover anyone.

You have only 1 job as a backup QB, be ready when the starter goes down. He didn't do his job.

No he didn't. Henne put points on the board against every opponent he faced except for New England in that last game where he was pulled half way into the game. Thigpen managed zero points in the 1 game that he started and he played the whole game. I don't care if it was a short week and Chicago isn't that great, Thigpen just made them look like the '85 Bears. Henne came back the next week even after being injured and looked much better than Thigpen did.

In your F'n dreams he is!! ha ha ha

Not a chance in hell Edge is a hall of fame RB!!! Sorry!

It's a "nickname" not supposed to be literal. Did the no name defense really have 11 guys with "no names"...  ::) Were the monsters of the midway not human and really monsters!

Faulk played for the only offense in NFL history to score 500+ points for three straight years.  I think it's fair to say his teammates were pretty good.

nobody said they weren't. Thats not the debate. Faulk was a better player than James. And James isn't going to the hall of fame. Anyone who thinks either of those statements are false is either related to Edge James or just doesn't know what NFL football is all about

Better player?  Sure.  Better pure running back?  I don't know about that.

Edge was not a good enough pure running back to get into the HOF (which is full of many great pure running backs).  Faulk would never get in as a pure rusher; his accomplishments are all based around yards from scrimmage and his dual-threat capability.

If Steve Tasker (a wide receiver) gets into the Hall of Fame, it doesn't make him one of the best receivers of all time.

Please, spin this anyway you want. As i said   FAULK > Edge    and its not even close

it's official Mike dont know wtf he's talkin about like lets blame that pick on Henne

didnt i just post the fuckin stats ??? or do u not know how to read football statistics, edge is behind faulk in rushing yards by only 30 yards and missed 2 seasons due to injury and played 2 less seasons, get ur head out your ass my dude

y wouldn't edge make the hall ???

dude had 4 1500 yard seasons, another at 1300 and he missed 3 games

faulk had 0

actually it was, a bad pass behind Fassano. If he throws a good pass Fassano doesn't have to reach behind him.

Why so vulger? Can't have a civil debate. Immature!  Why wouldn't he make the hall, its easy look at the OTHER RB's in the hall and Edge doesn't match up. And you can't ignore Faulk's RECIEVING stats. it's like saying, take away the home runs and Babe Ruth stinks. You can't take that away, it counts!!  THOSE NUMBERS COUNT!!

Edge's career was too short in terms of being a top player and his stats don't match up to other RB's in the hall of fame.

You can scream till your blue in the face and "CHERRY PICK" all the stats you want, he ain't getting in.

what am i cherry picking i just showed u their career stats are you missing something, we're talking about a rb and not a wr


top 4 rushing seasons for each

16    16    369    1553    
16    16    387    1709
16    16    334    1548    
15    15    360    1506    
vs
16    15    324    1319    
16    16    253    1381    
14    14    253    1359
14    14    260    1382    

i dont get how u ignore #'s, maybe if faulk wasn't catchin all them pass's he woulda had more rushing yards, hence my system argument but u dont want to hear that

i believe edge will get in the hall first ballot maybe not because alot of people look at edge and view him the same way as u do, he wasn't as popular as faulk, got hurt, but he still put up crazy #'s

so is faulk better then barry sanders ???

RB's aren't allowed to catch the ball and help their team that way.

WOW. Someone alret ESPN they might want to break into programing with this news!   ::)


This is a silly. I don't have time for this nonsense and downright laughable debate. Believe what you want.  Have a nice night

i'm askin a question because in ur mind receiving matters and edge has more receiving yards then sanders

edge receiving
433 receptions    3364 yards

barry sanders
352 receptions   2921 yards

so i mean ya

u can go ahead because u just talk and have nothing backing up any of ur arguments

reality backs me up!! LOL

how did Barry Sanders get in this debate? You couldn't win the Faulk one now you want to do Edge vs Barry. I ain't got time to do this everyday. Nobody said "EDGE SUCKED".....he didn't. He just isn't a hall of fame player. Sorry!

well 1st i asked u if faulk was better then barry since faulk is so awesome cause he has a million receiving yards and u ducked that question because of course u know sanders didn't have many receiving yards so that woulda put a clear hole in ur dumb ass arguement making ur argument as to y faulk is better then edge clearly irrelevant

When Edge goes to the HOF you look me up. I will fly you there and pay for your hotel and food.

I'm easy to find and get a hold of! Really I am.

Its not even a bet cause when Edge doesn't get in you don't have to give me nothing. Don't worry!

hahahahaha, edge may not get in because he has dreads and gold teeth

::)

hey it is what it is

There is a difference between being 3rd string and backup. Henne was worse against the browns, ravens and patriots than thigpens start against chicago.  This season is going to absolutely suck.  Henne is a big pile of shit, and instead of getting a legit qb, that pile of shit ireland let thigpen go and got a 3rd stringer from a terrible team.

CLE is conceded.
Against BAL, Henne had more INTs but was at least able to move the ball, getting nearly double the net passing yards.  Thigpen was completely ineffective at even moving the ball; he couldn't even get the team into field goal range.
Against NE, Henne played for 20 minutes.  Comparing his stats to Thigpen's full game is absurd.

Tebow is so much better then Henne its not even funny.

so is moore

Based on what?  By what metric is Tebow "so much better"?

Edge is # 11 all-time in rushing yards. 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/rush_yds_career.htm

http://espn.go.com/nfl/history/leaders/_/stat/rushlead

Of the guys above him, Emmit Smith (1), Walter Payton (2), Barry Sanders (3), Eric Dickerson (7), Tony Dorsett (-8), Jim Brown (9), and Marshall Faulk (10) are in.  Curtis Martin (4), Jerome Bettis (5) and Ladainian Tomlinson (6) are either waiting their shot or still active.  Guys 12 though 15 are either in (Marcus Allen, Franco Harris, Thurman Thomas) or still active (Fred Taylor).

Among those 15 (let's call those guys the basis for comparison), Edge is 12th in rushing TDs (80), 8th in receptions (433), 7th in receiving yards (3,364), 8th in receiving TDs (11), 11th in years in the league (11, including his 3 games with Seattle), and 13th in games played (148), meaning that out of the top 15 rushers of all time, 10 of whom are already in the Hall, and the rest of whom probably will get in (I'm not sure about Fred Taylor), Edgerrin James is in the middle of the pack, which by definition makes his numbers comparable to those of a Hall of Fame back (or, to use your exact term, they match up quite well).

exactly what i'm saying but Mikey dont look at the #'s he stuck in his ways blinded by a superbowl ring that faulk has

IF he ever goes in I will fly all of you "believers" out. Until then we are just wasting our time and going in circles.

I will put it in writing I am so confident he ain't getting in! What more can I do!! Someone draw up the papers!

How about taking the Faulk versus James conversation into a thread actually dedicated to it and stop derailing this one? Actually I think I'm too late because I personally don't think it is going anywhere and hasn't gone anywhere for the last page.

anyone who watches football games can see this. Only Tebow haters can't. Henne at best is a 3rd string backup. He has no business starting in the NFL.