The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

Other than Brian Fein - is anyone not on the "Suck for Luck" bandwagon? Even I'm on that one.

I'm about halfway on it.  Part of me wants to see this team win.  Part of me wants them to get Luck. 

I want them to get Luck, but I am not for tanking the season purposely.

Personally it wouldn't bother me if Ross gave the team the rest of the season off. It hurts me that all I do is make fun of "us" anymore.

I was very heated about "fans" (yes I used the quotations whoever called me out last time) actually rooting for the Dolphins to lose games. It is one thing to wish that the QB we draft (I doubt there is anyone who feels we should look another direction right now) turns into a top flight NFL QB. It is another to say you actually want your favorite team to lose games. I don't think a real fan does that.

I used to think that way as well. And then this year happened. 

Hey I just thought of a postive ... Maybe I will get my fan card revoked and then save some money?  :D

I'm a NO.  At this point in the season I'm indifferent as to whether the Fins win or lose, but I can't root for them to lose.  Maybe if it were the last game of the season, we'll see.

AGREED Whole-heartedly.

And as I said before, if you think that your favorite team losing games this year can directly lead to them winning championships in the near future, it doesn't somehow make you less of a fan to want them to lose now.

I'm on the suck for luck bandwagon if for no other reason it will shut up all those people that think Miami's problems are totally related to the fact that Miami hasn't drafted a QB in the first round since Marino. This will be the litmus test. If you get the most celebrated QB coming out of college in decades and he doesn't turn the franchise around, then that whole argument goes out the window and I can quit hearing about it.

I WANT us to lose.  But I don't want us to TRY to lose.  The latter hurts the integrity of the game of footbal and puts a cloud over your franchise.

I don't think the draft position is as much of an issue as the fact that Miami hasn't had a quality QB since Marino...regardless of where they might draft their QB prospects.

^^I definately hear the sentiment that the reason is because we haven't really tried to get a replacement for him.

They have drafted 2 different 2nd round QB's.  By the way, Drew Brees was a 2nd round QB.

Most of the haters are very specific about their desire for a 1st round QB.

So that way, when he's a bust, he can cripple the franchise because not only do you still have a bust QB, but you also wasted your 1st round pick that year.

like miami hasn't wasted any of those over the years.

As I have said before, you can still get a NFL quality QB without losing every game. Get off the we have to lose now to win in the future argument. It is not imperitive that we have the #1 pick in order to get a great QB.

I am 100% on board with "Suck for Luck".  There is absolutely no benefit in winning and very good QBs are hard to find.  I don't root to lose, but I don't root to win.  I just watch the games expecting us to lose and hope it is a respectable showing (so we don't scare away good coaching prospects).

If you aren't on board with "Suck for Luck", I just don't get it.  Sparano and Ireland are dead men walking.  There is simply no doubt that the team will be remodeled after this season so why not start the remodel with a kick ass gift card to fix your number one area of need?

There is a difference in expecting to lose and rooting to lose. If you aren't rooting to lose how can you say you are on board with "Suck for Luck"? Also, why does it have to be Andrew Luck and the #1 pick? Why couldn't we be as successful by drafting one of the other top three QBs? if we suck so bad we end up number 1 to get Luck I'm all for it. If we end up number 2 and take Jones or barkley it is as if some of you guys will jump off a building.

Chalk me up for a "No". First of all there is no guarantee that we will get Luck as there are a handful of shitty teams (Colts, Rams, Cardinals.....etc.) Second although I personally think he will be a great QB in this league there is always a chance he could get injured and not amount to shit or end up being Ryan Leaf. I always want my team to win and I was really angry the last two weeks and the Cleveland game when we pissed away victories.

Here's the scenario that scares me. Suppose Miami ends up with the #2 pick. How do you know they are gonna take Jones or Barkley? Suppose they take a WR or a Defensive end or god forbid another lineman.  Do you KNOW they are going to take a QB at #2 if they can't get Luck? I don't and I don't want to take that chance. I think the ONLY way to guarantee Miami takes a QB is to get the 1st pick in the draft so they can take Luck. Even Miami isn't stupid enough to pass on Luck.

That is the nice part.  The team makes it easy on me where I don't have to root for them to lose, I can just sit there and expect it and wah la, another one for the loss column.

For real, we have plenty of injuries and enough shitty conditioning to keep us losing for the rest of the season.  The tough schedule is a security blanket at this point.

I will tell you who I do root for though...  those damn Colts and Manning's medical staff!

Unless I'm mistaken, it was 3 QBs taken in the 2nd round.  Beck, Henne and White.

I wouldn't worry too much.  On most mock big boards, Jones is #3 only behind Luck and a LT.

You can get a Hall of Fame QB in the 6th round.  But that's not the point.

The point is that some are accusing others of being lesser fans for having a belief that losing today will result in increased success in the future.  If you disagree, that's fine!  But it doesn't somehow make you a superior fan.

My sentiments exactly.  Well put, sir.

Not me. I just want to see my team win a game.

I view it like this:

Pregame:  I do my pregame Dolphins dance in front of the mirror because I'm a creeper like that.  I put on my jersey during said dance.  I play the Miami Dolphins fight song, original AND T-pain versions. 

Game:  I cheer crazy for my team.

Postgame:  I say, "Well, at least we're one step closer to a franchise QB in the draft!"

I can't remember which one said it or the exact quote but one of the sports writers wote about us finding a QB several years ago ... It went something like this.

It snowed in Miami once back in the 80s but i wouldn't want to purchase my winter wardrobe off of that. I'd better take my chances going up north to find snow in the winter. With this he said we should be doing everything to draft a QB high in the draft as it increased our odds.  Does it guarantee it? Nope but it certainly increases your odds.

If we screw around and win a few games, and it could happen, we might not get one of the first three QBs and then how much more would this season hurt than it already does? I mean 2007 certainly didn't get us a QB so here we are again with nothing to show from our pains as it got us a servicable RB. Picking 1 or 2 next year pretty much guarantees us a QB that is at least worthy of a project. Picking 4th or 5th keeps us in limbo. 

You're right but I don't consider Pat White a valid QB.  He was drafted as a lame Wildcat experiment.

At least I hope so...

I'll still sleep better at night if we end up with the 1st pick.

The other thing to consider is that with the 1st pick you can negotiate a contract with the player beforehand. We could already have Luck signed by the time the Dolphins name comes up on the board on draft day. That would save me having to sit through about 18 hours of listening to Mel Kiper Jr talk prior to the draft. That alone is worth a couple of Miami losses right there. :)

I guess this is becoming moot.  The Dolphins are killing me here.  First, they kill my season 3 games in.  Then, they kill their future by winning 2 straight.  They even suck at sucking...

Did anyone see the Stanford/Oregon game last night?  Luck didn't look too good.  At this point, I'd almost prefer Landry Jones.

Every minute of it...and still prefer Andrew Luck. Not like Miami has any chance at him now though, so Jones and Barkley are likely going to end up the prime suspects. Unless, of course, Miami wins 2-3 more games, in which case we'll probably end up with a pass rusher in the #8-#10 area of round one.

I think this will be our destiny.  I said if we get a lttle confidence we will end up screwing ourselves. Well we now have a little confidence so ....

^^...and I'm fine with it. :)

Huh. Your fine with not drafting a legit QB?

^^^ This is my problem with the Suck for Luck mentality. That is not even remotely close to what Brian said. There are options outside the #1 spot on finding a quality QB. There is no guarantee any of these top three guys will be quality QBs. No one knows anything and that is why tanking on purpose (especially when you guys were calling for it after 1/4 of the season was all that had been played) is stupid.

^^ Thank you.  Exactly right.

^^Alright then I'll state exactly what the "Suck for Luck" mentality is.  A win or 2 now is not as important as the long term success of the team and if losing those games now helps in the long run, then we would prefer that.

Can you agree with that? Yes or no.

Certainly we can't know whether losing now will help us in the future, but winning a couple games now will not help us in the future either, so they are hollow wins that we are willing to sacrifice. I don't see why that's a big issue. I'm not saying that "Suck for Luck" is some grand scheme, it's not, it's called hoping for the best. That's it.

Stroke said after winning a few we would likely end up drafting a pass rusher alluding to the available QBs wouldn't be worth taking that high. I said I see that happening. Brian said he has no problem with that. My question is that he, and I guess you, are ok with not drafting one of the three QBs everyone has tagged but drafting another Henne who might or might not have potential?

That is not the Suck for Luck mentality. Since game four the premise has been lose all games and actually root for it. You have simplified the equation so much it isn't funny. In reality what you are willing to sacrifice by ROOTING for the Dolphins to lose is self respect on yourself and the team in general. That is something I don't have any desire to sacrifice. This you have to lose now to win in the future in short sighted (I know I've been accused of that as well) and asinine. How many teams have lost year after year for over a decade seemingly never get much better? How many team have continued winning for over a decade? Neither guarantees a winning future so winning now is all you really have.

CF, I'll let Brian respond but I think he and I are on the same page as to what he was getting at.

That's my Suck for Luck mentality. I can't speak for anyone else.

Agreed with Phish.  I STRONGLY feel that there are lots of ways to get better and many people feel like the only way to improve is named Andrew Luck.  I disagree.

The way the Dolphins typically operate (in every aspect) is to go with the popular decision that everyone wants, and it never ever ever pans out.  Five years later we look back and see how dumb it was.  Nick Saban, Cam Cameron, Daunte Culpepper all come to mind.

In my opinion, any pick in the top 10 will be a "make your team better" player.  And I'm not willing to root AGAINST my favorite team, which I have been die-hard for 30 years, just to draft one single QB that will likely be a flop anyway.

That's how I see it.  I'd rather win a few games, feel good, ruin a few other people's seasons, and have an ounce of pride than put all my eggs in Andrew Luck's basket.

But that's just me.

If the Dolphins win 2-3 more games the question will be what are the Fins willing to give up to get P. Manning?

^^^ That question has already been thrown about and I don't want to give up anything for him.

^^^ If Manning could pass a physical I could see giving up two 1st round picks.  He stills has a couple years left, not to mention he brings a level of leadership that this team hasn't seen in a while.

I think the way to get better is to spend a top-5 draft pick on a top-rated QB, something that the Dolphins haven't done since...I dunno, Bob Griese?

The names Brady Quinn and Ryan Mallet come to mind.

Are you going to cheer the next Ted Ginn selection?

I guess if you feel better about a 5-11 season with a #7 pick than a 1-15 season with a #1 pick, sure.  I do find it amazing that a certain contingent of fans on this board still seems to be on board with acquiring second-round-caliber QBs ad infinitum, though.

I will say that it is becoming tiresome hearing that wishing for my team to have a better pick in the draft (for purposes of long-term success) is somehow less prideful than hoping for a last-place division finish, but with a mighty 4 wins.

Maybe if you quit telling Dolphin fans how you want them to lose games you will quit hearing about pride.

So if I'm lucky, I will get to hear more about the pride of a 4-12 season.  Got it.

The difference between you and I is that while I disagree with your position (loosely stated as "win today and let tomorrow handle itself"), I'm not actually disparaging you as a fan because of it.

^ That's what rubs me, too.

I wanted us to lose.  I don't think it makes me a bad fan.

I think it makes you a borderline fan at all. The only saving grace is the fact you feel it will create a more success (when in reality it doesn't make any guarantees at all).

It doesn't guarantee anything, of course.  ...but it makes it much more likely.  Odds are, that the team who ends up with Luck with have a better QB on their hands in 5 years that the team that drafts 5th.  It's not for sure, but it's the smart money bet.

And what, exactly, did a win against KC guarantee?  What did trading for Ricky Williams or Brandon Marshall guarantee?  What did signing Joey Porter or Karlos Dansby guarantee?  What did hiring Bill Parcells guarantee?

Nothing in this league is guaranteed.  Pointing out that drafting the best prospect of his generation doesn't guarantee improvement is a content-free statement; no one is arguing that it does.  Miami could trade for Aaron Rodgers and Adrian Peterson tomorrow and it wouldn't guarantee anything.

That's a great way to sum it up. I mean, you can look at any QB currently in the NFL and know that Luck comes with more upside than any one of them at this point in their career. It doesn't guarantee a darn thing but at least it's an attempt at stacking the deck.

This is where the flaw is in your argument.  How do you KNOW he is the best prospect?

Brian, Luck is the best prospect of his generation.  You do recognize the difference between best prospect and best player, right?

You didn't see an analogue to Suck For Luck for Mike Vick, or Carson Palmer, or Alex Smith, or Sam Bradford.  Hell, you didn't even see one for Peyton Manning.  And these are all current NFL players, so you can't exactly play the "it was a different era" card like you could for someone like Elway.

I don't have any doubt on Luck's status as a prospect. I would be happy to get him. I don't think we can deny the convenience of the rhyming name helping craze to catch fire though.

I'm on the what the fuck bandwagon.  I'm still trying to figure out if our owner is a smart business owner or Tommy Boy.

If our owner was Tommy Boy... Instead of Gloria Estefan, J-Lo and Marc Anthony as celebrity owners, we'd probably have Ted Nugent, AC/DC and Metallica.

I'd probably actually give a fuck about our celebrity owners in that case.

I concur.

I've said before that I wished Ross would sell the team outright to Ted Nugent and Chuck Norris.

Now that would be fun and interesting.