The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

With last night win Belichick and Brady passed Shula and Marino for most wins of a coach/QB combo. 

Shula has more wins than BB and that record will probably never fall to anyone. 

And Marino has more wins than Brady.  The record is held by Favre and that too will probabaly will never fall.  And Brady even passing Marino is very unlikely.

But with the combined efforts of Brady, Manning and Favre -- Marino has more "former records" than ones he still holds.   

Records are made to be broken.  What's your point?

K?

I think that Brady + Belichick are far superior to Marino + Shula in almost every way you slice it.

Best Coach: BB
Best QB: TB
More Super Bowls: BB + TB
More AFC Championships: BB + TB
More AFC East Championships: BB + TB
More Wins as a combo: BB + TB

I'm not even factoring in ingenuity, value (Marino was a 1st-round pick, Brady was pick #199 Round 6), and other superlatives (consecutive home-win record, consecutive NFC-win record, 16-0 season, 50 TDs in a season, etc...).

And - they have a solid few years left at least together.

Brady, Manning and Favre can thank Dan Marino for ushering in the pass happy league that is the NFL today. Without Marino, would there be a Brady, Manning and Favre?

Based on the stats, yes, I think you have to say B+B are a better combo.  However, I think that Belichek's legacy is tarnished with the spygate thing, honestly.  This will be especially true is the duo doesn't show success after it.

If I'm not mistaken, the Pats haven't been a very good team since that taping practice thing has stopped.

I don't know how history will remember them.  I assume the NFL just wants us to forget, and normally, I would think that story is overrated, but considering the team's lack of success since, it's something I consider.

I think you also have to look at how the game has changed since Marino retired.  The rules have shifted to favor receivers and quarterbacks. 

I wonder how modern QBs would have faired in the era of Staubach, Tarkington and Bradshaw?  When I watch the old films of games filled with late hits, clothslines, spearing, pile driving, etc......I'm amazed these guys ever lasted a full season.


Edited to add - I think it's difficult and ultimately unfair to compare players from different periods.  There is just to much change - drugs, training, equipment, rules, etc.  I'm comfortable saying Marino/Shula were the best of their era.  Belichick/Brady are the best of this era.

Depends on definitions of what a good team is. They have still been an impressive regular season team which I think qualifies them. Postseason success would have made them very good since spygate.

Disagree.  (what else is new)

Spygate was unveiled in 2007.  Of course that season they were 17-1. (Thanks, Giants)

In 2008 they were 11-5, missed the playoffs.
2009 - 10-6 - lost the Wild Card
2010 - 14-2 - lost the Divisional Round

in the 3 years since Spygate, they have won 35 games, for an average of 11.667 wins per season.  Compare that to Belichick's 11.375 wins per season (91 wins in 8 seasons) up to the end of 2007.

If that's not considered "success" in the NFL, clearly you expect too much.

Clearly we all have our opinions, but boy would I like to have seen Marino play with the current rules where you can't breathe on a QB without drawing a flag (goes to longevity) and can no longer mug wide receivers as they run their patterns.  I think Marino would threaten the yardage and TD records almost annually.

It seems like in today's NFL, more than ever, a stud QB can elevate your team.  For instance, the Colts are dreadful without Manning.  Watching the Pats this year, I get the feeling they'd be pretty bad without Brady (the secondary is awful AND beat up, the D-line can't generate pass rush, the running backs are horrible, and Deion Branch is their best receiver.)

Front Office decisions are a huge X-Factor in this point.  The Patriots of the early 2000's were the most complete football teams you'll ever see assembled.  I wish Marino and Shula had the same defense the Patriots had under Belichick.

Not really. 

1998 9-7
1999 8-8
2000 5-11
2001 first two games 0-2

BB was quoted as saying after the 2001 superbowl, "I won the superbowl with this team?"  Even he was surprised they won.  2001 team was not a great collection of players and and the win over the Rams was the 3rd biggest upset in superbowl history.  With only Jets over Colts and Giants over NE being bigger examples of a weaker team beating a stonger team on "any given Sunday"

I have a lot of respect for Shula, but if there is one knock on him it is that Marino doesn't have a ring.  If you have a QB of the quailty of Brady, Manning, Marino, Rodgers etc for 11 years a coach should be able to assemble the team into allignment at least once with the rest of the team to win the big one. 

I think Shula is the best Coach of all time, regardless of the number of rings won.  Shula was able to transition from the old style running game to the "new" pass attack offenses.  He took mediocre teams that were expexcted to finish near the bottom, and would get them to 8-8.  As for not getting Marino a ring, the Fins were always battling the Bills (Marv Levy, Jim Kelly, Thurman Thomas, Andre Reed, etc) - not exactly slouches, since they went to the Super Bowl four consecutive years.  The Fins could never overcome the December Buffalo cold and their lack of a star running back.

I actually agree with you Hoodie, but they did come pretty close twice. They lost in the Superbowl to one of the best teams you'll ever see and they lost the AFC Championship game the following year on a fluke. They had a chance those 2 years to win it all and failed, but it's not exactly like they weren't an elite team then, they were. Then the defense fell apart and Shula was never able to get it pieced back together, but I wouldn't call his years with Marino a failure by any stretch. They were contenders every year, they just never put it all together. That happens, even to the best of coaches.

Even Belicheck failed to win the SuperBowl with perhaps his best team. It doesn't always come down to who has the best team, a lot of it comes down to who's playing the best at the right time.

Nor would I. 


Right now I have Shula as #2.  I have Lombardi at #1.  I think it is possible for Belichick to pass Shula for the #2 spot with one or two more rings. 

Shula is an all time great coach.  And without question the greatest coach of his era. I don't mean to imply I don't have tremdodous respect for Shula.  Just if you wanted to find one "hole" in his string of tremendous successes it would that he couldn't pull it off with Marino.  That should not be taken to mean I think poorly of him.     

Now I was born in 1986.  So I'm fuzzy on details on how it was assembled, but if Shula was one of those coaches that handled everything, then shame on him for having one of the best quarterbacks of all time and failing to give him anything to work with/help him out.  Otherwise, you can't compare the talent..it's not fair.

After the Mark's Brothers left, Marino WAS the Dolphins, he NEVER had anything close to a good defense.  Brady/Belichick did.  Pats had names like:  Richard Seymour, Tedy Bruschi, Mike Vrabel, Rodney Harrison, Ty Law, Asante Samuel, Willie McGinnest.   Name some Dolphins defensive players of the 80's and 90's off the top of your head..