The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

who's the better Qb?   Do we try to keep either?  does Moore look good because receivers finally can catch the ball?  Henne was not the only reason we lost so many games this year.

Probably keep Moore and draft a star QB prospect this year or try like hell to get Manning and draft a QB next year.

What is it with you guys and Manning? He's broken. Would you invest in a car with a broken engine for your child to drive around? To answer the OP- Moore. -EK

With the way Moore has prgressed this year I think you keep Moore as the backup.  Not sure of what Moore's current contract is with the Fins, but the other possibility is packaging Moore as part of a trade and keeping Henne.  Moore seems to exude more confidence and doesn't seem to get that deer in the headlights look during the 2 minute drill.

Players get injured every year and come back all the time.  Would you have written off Brady when he went out a couple years ago?  It's not like Manning is a running QB, he's always been a pocket passer.

He has had THREE operations on the same body part.  He is one sack away from living the rest of his life in a wheel chair. 

You can come back from one injury or two.  Once you are on the third it is time to hang it up. 

As for the OP --- either draft a QB or go with Moore.  He is playing well.  It takes time for a QB to get insync with the WR.  He has achieved that. 

It's not an OR question IMO,one is a free agent (Henne) one is under contract for another year (Moore)...

IMO,Your QB has to fit what your HC,OC is trying to do....I feel the trifecta saw Henne as an Aikman like QB,being they were a run first,play good defense to win games...(my assumption) I think Moore fits exactly what Daboll want,and work well together..

I'm not sure I could answer the question till we have a head coach...

my 2 cents...

Both.  Moore has one more year on his contract, I think, so keep him and draft whatever QB of the future is available.  Let them duke it out in camp to see who starts.

Henne's contract is up, so you don't even have to cut him.  Moore has shown more leadership and grit in half a season than Henne did in his entire career.

I would write off ANY player with spinal fusion. That's not the same as any other injury in football, or life for that matter. He had a disk recmoved and his cervical spine fused together. And he already had knee issues before that. Immobile + fragile = one hit away from crippled. I assure you he is not going to be the same player he was. -EK

^^Not for a player who typically takes fewer hits than anyone on the field.  Manning has been extremely durable up to this point, there's absolutely no reason to think he won't play for another 2 or 3 years. It's certainly possible that his career could come to an abrupt end, but a recent study has shown that as many as 40 players have had the same surgery and come back to play in the NFL. Every QB knows that the next game could be his last.

http://thechart.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/09/inside-peyton-mannings-surgery/

Oh, I'm sure he'll come back. In fact, I never said he wouldn't. WHat I said was that he wouldn't be the same player. While over 40 players may have come back from the same surgery, I'd be interested to see their pre- and post- op stats. -EK

He is not a mobile QB, he plays behind the best o-line in the NFL.  Is the Dolphins going to trade for the o-line as well?

This could probably go somewhere else but  don't want to stat another thread.  This is the current projection of Peter King.

NFL Draft 2012 Possible QB Picks
 
Pick - Team (Record) ............................. ...................Player, Pos., School

1 - Indianapolis Colts (1-13) ............................. .....Andrew Luck, QB, Stanford
5 - Cleveland Browns (4-10) ............................. ....Robert Griffin III, QB, Baylor
7 - Washington Redskins (5-9) ............................. Matt Barkley, QB, USC
9 - Miami Dolphins (5-9) ............................. ...........Landry Jones, QB, Oklahoma



Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/peter_king/12/19/Week15/index.html#ixzz1h0uqwBp8

Keep Moore, draft a 1st round QB and let them duke it out in preseason. Let Henne go, and get rid of JP Losman. Keep Devlin as #3

this

Without question, Moore. The only problem is with the new head coach, comes a possible new OC. I still say they are a RT & a WR away from making yesterday look more routine. A drafted QB with new coaches means they are two years away from where they are right now.

This would be what should happen in a "normal" situation. The Dolphins are not normal.

There's a LOT more to not getting hit besides being mobile. Actually if you were to check the records, some of the MOST mobile QB's are the ones that got sacked the most often. Guys like Marino and Manning actually throw the ball away a LOT more than the average QB to avoid being sacked. I'm not sure if Marino's the best ever at it, but he's close if not the best. Manning is right behind him and the rest...well they are WELL behind them, getting sacked sometimes 2 and 3 times more often. Marino and Manning didn't play behind the greatest lines of all time their entire careers, they simply got rid of the ball before the defense could get to them. Guys like Elway, Young and Staubach basically never threw the ball away, they simply ran around until they either found someone open or got sacked.

Here's some shocking stats for you to ponder.


Player    Sacks  Attempts/Sack
Marino    270    30.96
Manning   227    30.70
Favre     503    19.50
Aikman    259    18.20
Fouts     319    17.57
Montana   313    17.22
Moon      458    14.90
Kelly     323    14.80
Elway     516    14.05
Tarkenton 483    13.39
Young     358    11.59
Griese    335    10.24
Staubach  313     9.45


And what about Curtis Painter?  With the same offensive line that Manning normally plays behind, he's been sacked 16 times in 243 attempts.  That's a 15.19 rate, more than twice as often as Peyton. So the question is did Indy's offensive line suddenly suck or does Painter simply get sacked about twice as often because he's not Peyton?

Mobility doesn't matter to this part of the discussion. Manning's stats were declining BEFORE the surgery. Now he's going to be 36, having taken a year off, and coming off of spinal fusion. You really believe that he's going to be the same player he was five years ago? I mean damn, I HOPE he is. Irrespective of who he plays for, I'm a Manning fan. I think he's a class act and unbelievable player. But I'm also a subscriber to logic, and logic tells me he's not going to be the great player he was. He may not even be good. At his age and under the circumstances I'm inclined to believe he will be average. Somewhere in the 10-20 range of QB's. Is that really a significant upgrade over Moore, and at what cost? -EK

Nope. Don't expect him to be. I'll take what he was in 2010. That's better than anything the Dolphins have had on their roster since Marino.

Yes, he's declined pretty much every year since 2004 and yet he's still one of the top QB's in the league.  Besides you are acting as if this injury just occurred.  I believe Peyton played most of 2010 with this problem and just dealt with the pain, but the pain had gotten too severe by the end of the year and he had to have something done. This surgery is supposed to relieve that pain. It's possible he could come back and play better than he has since the injury occurred.

Moore is a much better player than Henne.

Henne is a FA in 2 weeks and he will be lucky to find an NFL bench next year in all honesty. Coming off a major injury and 4 years of poor play. He is a league minimum type of guy who will have to fight for a back-up spot. Chad Henne=Matt Lienert. Their careers are very similar on the field in the NFL.

Keep Moore obviously since he is already under contract and incase we get screwed in the draft and come up empty handed in Rd 1. Plus Moore is a capable backup in this league.

I would be happy to have the Manning of two years ago, considering that he won the MVP that year.

To his non throwing shoulder? Please. I read something just this morning that said that Henne was put on injured reserve because the Dolphins were already 0-4 and basically they were giving up on Henne and going with Matt Moore for the rest of the year regardless of what happened. That was pure speculation, but it is strange that a QB with a seperated non throwing shoulder was put on injured reserve 4 weeks into the season. I don't think they really wanted the spectre of Henne coming back at the end of the season and playing and then having to decide whether to offer him a contract or not. They were done with Henne, but that doesn't mean that Henne is done in the NFL. Look around the league. There are plenty of backup QB's holding down backup spots in the league. Henne will land somewhere next year and I wouldn't be surprised if he's starting again for someone within a year or 2, it just won't be with Miami.

Henne needed surgery, that is why he went on IR.  The man can't play, in his 3 games this year he was decent in the first and bad in the next 2. Moore came in with the same surrounding cast and played better. And Moore didn't have a year or more experience playing with guys like Bees, Fasano, Hartline, Marshall...etc. That's all you need to know. Henne can't play in this league. Henne will get an offer to compete for a back-up job. But I think Henne is on the Leinart/Quinn NFL career path. Nobody will hand him a #2 QB position, not with the way he has played in his career. He hasn't earned it. He's been terrible.

To compare Henne to those two is an insult.  He's much worse than both of them.  Both of these guys will be on an NFL roster next year, and I'm not so sure Henne will.

Henne isn't better than Curtis Painter, A.J Feeley, Caleb Hanie, or any number of other backups in the league?  He's mediocre, but mediocrity is pretty much what you expect from a backup.

I'm interested in why you think Quinn and Leinart are better than Henne.  Quinn has the worst stats of the three by far and Henne is superior to Leinart in nearly every category but win % (in which Leinart leads .444 to .419).

Henne will probably be on an NFL roster at some point in the future,  (lots of folks worse than him have gotten 2nd chances) but Henne needs to get his post-football resume' in order because it's highly doubtful he has a long term future in the NFL.

 >:D >:D >:D >:D END ALL PEYTON MANNING TALKS  >:D >:D >:D >:D

NO way miami is not going to invest gettin him, sure hell no Phin want to see Tom Brady here as well.  It is time to start build towards something and its not going to start with getting broken QB's

I don't think you can call Peyton or Tom broken QB's. It makes sense that if either of them are available is to try and land one and draft a QB next year.

Back on topic, Matt Moore has played better and something to be said for our offense scoring 30 points a game or more with him in there. 

He needed surgery to his non throwing shoulder. That doesn't mean he had to go to IR and it certainly doesn't mean he can't play again next year when it's healed.  The injury has NOTHING to do with his future in the NFL. That's all that I was pointing out.

If Miami had started 4-0 and he had been playing lights out, do you think Miami would have put him on IR?  I don't. I think they would have kept him on the bench and hoped that he could come back before the end of the year. Circumstances dictated there was no point in NOT putting him on IR. He wasn't coming back this year even if healthy.

Very good point, one of my complaints last year was that the Fins couldn't score 30 pts in a game.

But Miami wasn't 4-0 and the main reason was because Henne sucked. Why bring him back at all. He can't play in this league! He is a very bad QB! Also, Henne WANTED the surgery cause he is a FA this offseason and wants to be healthy on the open market. He doesn't want to re-sign with Miami. He needs to be healthy for his next job.  It wasn't only Miami's call either. Henne had a say and wanted the surgery, it is his shoulder ya know!  ;)

Considering everything, Henne will be signed as a back up somewhere.  He was better than some other starters out there this year. To say he's finished in the NFL is absurd. He's just finished in Miami.

What NFL starter is Henne better than? And don't give me Haine or Yates because they are backups forced into action. Aside from Colt McCoy (who is slightly better than Henne) Chad Henne is far worse than every other NFL starter out there currently.

^^^

Kevin Kolb

^^^^
Sanchez.

Evidence of the old Marino mantra "pick a guy and let it fly".

As for the answer: Moore.  As much as I wanted/hoped for Henne to be the guy, you only bring him back if you strike out in the draft, he comes cheap, and the new coach reaaally thinks he can make him a very good QB.

Fair enough, if that's the way you see it. So drop the fact that his non throwing shoulder has been operated on. It has NOTHING to do with his future status in the NFL. NOTHING.

I'm pretty sure that # 32 against the pass defense during the first 4 weeks of the season had something to do with it too.  To say he was the main reason is a reach, IMO.

Kolb and Sanchez (as someone mentioned below) are BOTH better than Moore. I'm sorry.

Kolb has been hurt but I would take Kolb in a heartbeat over Matt Moore. It's not even close

His failure to convert in the redzone, win games, and put up decent numbers is why his NFL career is limited if not very short.

No, we lost to Houston and Cleveland because we couldn't score any friggin points. Defense was fine those weeks.

Kolb who couldnt do crap with Larry Fitzgerald is better than Moore? You've lost it, buddy.

Sanchez who couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat is better than Moore?  I don't buy that either.  The guy's best play is bounce it off a defender and hope it hits somebody on his own team.

When Matt Moore GETS to a playoff game wake me up. Sanchez has won 4 and played in 6. If you still want to compare these 2 as somewhat "equals" at their position you are lost on this issue. Totally LOST!

Sanchez might not be a superstar, but he is in a class Moore would dream to be in. A much higher class than Matt Moore

Guy's been hurt all year. Starting a team today, every GM in this league would take Kolb over Moore and its not even up for debate.

There are 50 quarterbacks in the league that are better than Mark Sanchez.  Probably a couple playing in the CFL too.

ha ha, sure. Whatever.  That means there are close to 100 better than Matt Moore

What an ignorant statement.

Ok, Mike, going by your logic, Steve Young sucked. He left the Bucs where he was horrible and went to the 49ers. And I guess that because he sucked as a Buc, once you suck you always suck right? Even though his game improved with the 49ers, he still sucked right? Because that's exactly what you are saying about Matt Moore.

Wait. I'm confused. Mike, didn't you just post like a week ago that Sanchez was so bad this year that he should be benched and that the Jets were looking at Manning in the offseason going forward? Didn't you, in fact, say Sanchez is having the worst year of his entire career? And now he's in a class Matt Moore "would dream to be in?" Little consistency please? -EK

I'm terribly sorry I was exagerating there are exactly 43 quarterbacks in the NFL who are better than Mark Sanchez and 3 more in the CFL.   :P

Steve Young was a superstar in the USFL. And the USFL was a decent league! You might not remember the USFL but Steve Young didn't suck. He had 2 down years in TB because TB sucked and had nobody around him. Matt Moore had Steve Smith in Carolina as well as 2 1,000 yard running backs and a great o-line. And he sucked there. In Miami he hasn't beaten 1 decent team all year. Stop making up silly debates and shooting them down when I never made such a claim about Steve Young.

Matt Moore is a career backup because I have seen him play in Carolina and Miami and nobody will ever say or believe Matt Moore is a future hall of fame player waiting to break out like Young was in TB. Unlike Young, he hasn't shown in the past or at any time in his college or pro career he is noting more than he currently is. He doesn't have that potential. First off, he is always injured. The man can't stay on the field. Second, he has a low ceiling and he has all but reached that ceiling this year.

Matt Moore will have a nice career in the NFL as a backup who can fill in when need be. But to think he can be an NFL starter who will lead a team anywhere or to the playoffs is foolish. He can't. He hasn't. He won't!

And you will never accept anyone else's opinion that differs from yours with anything other than condescension. You can't, you haven't, you won't! 

NEVER SAID THAT! Boy you make crap up just to shot it down.  You just re-worded one entire post I put up about a week ago and twisted the entire thing.. I said there was talk in NY about going after Manning next year IF he is on the market. I never said the Jets WERE looking into Manning. That there were rumors. And I said Sanchez is having his worst year to date. Which is a fact. Never mentioned "benching" at all.

And YES, as bad as Sanchez has played "THIS YEAR"....he is still and always will be better than Matt Moore. Not that tough of a concept to understand. Consistent enough for ya.

And for the record....Here is what I said last week

Amen, +1, /thread. -EK

why would I "accept" a different opinion? You are entitled to have one, I just don't agree.