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http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/12/28/2563792/jason-taylor-final-dolphins.html

Good player for a lot of years. He will be in Canton down the road. He won't get in right away, but he will get in eventually. I mean Chris Doleman isn't in and he has more sacks than JT, so it will take a while.

He just couldn't wait to make this announcement after Sunday's game.

Now this whole game will be about him.

Good riddance to one of the most two-faced egotistical self-centered athletes of the 20th century.

Did you even read the aricle?


Jason goes down as just another great player that never reached the Super Bowl here in Miami. You can't help but feel for him much in the same way as for Dan Marino.

At least he never got any of his sacks by having a QB lay down for him. Talk about "egotistical self-centered athletes." -EK

I'll miss JT.  Great player, team first guy, and, on some teams, one of the few who looked like he was always trying (along with his brother in law).  I look forward to seeing 54 and 99 on the ring of honor some day.

Ring of Honor, yes. But they shouldn't (and I don't think they will) retire his number.  Nobody should wear it for a few years, but do not retire it permanently.

I have always liked JT.  He will be missed.

Why wouldn't you retire it? I don't know what it takes to be retired, if there are really any guidelines, so it's just an honest question.

JT also holds the NFL record for defensive lineman for fumbles returned with scores, and has scored more td's than any other NFL defensive lineman.
That should help him get a little bump.

Even since he left to play for the Jets, I never felt he had a place in my heart anymore.  He's a good player, though, and it's too bad he's leaving.

Because retiring a number is the highest of honor a player can get. JT left the franchise TWICE, both times begging. He isn't a no brain, 1st ballot lock hall of fame player (like Marino), a Super Bowl MVP (like Csonka), or led the team to 3 straight Super Bowls like Griese. He doesn't deserve having his number retired. That's an honor you save for the best of the best. JT doesn't meet the criteria.

All offense there. It can be argued JT is one of the greatest defensive players in the history of the franchise.

maybe. It's either him or Nick Bunoconti as the best defensive player in Fins history I would guess. Maybe throw Manny Fernandez in the discussion as well.  Just don't see JT getting his number retired.

I don't want to re-hash the whole Parcells thing, but I thought the Tuna basically ran him out of here.

No he didn't. Miami refused to offer him a contract, and he has gone on record as stating he would have stayed if Parcells left earlier. Ironically, from an article YOU posted: "Parcells considered stepping back from his job as executive vice president of football operations prior to the start of training camp. He ultimately decided to do it just prior to the regular-season. But what if Parcells had done it six months ago ... when the decision on Taylor was made by the Dolphins, that decision not to offer the outside linebacker a contract. Would Taylor still be with Miami if Parcells had left earlier? "I think that horse is already dead," Taylor said moments ago. "If you had to hold my hand over the fire and forced me to give you an answer I would have to say yes." -EK

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolphins_in_depth/2010/09/taylor-would-still-be-in-miami-if-parcells-had-left-earlier.html

I think his number should be retired.  He's in the company of HOFers for all time sacks.  I don't know if Strahan's number is, or will be retired, but if his is, then Taylor's should be too.  I know he played for the stinking Jets, and I'm still pretty bitter about that, but him and ZT where the face of this franchise for a long time, and JT has the crazy stats to warrant his number being retired.

The league strongly discourages teams from retiring a players given that there is a finite number of numbers and you need at least 53 of them to field a team. 

In general the standard is NOT "It can be argued XX is one of the greatest players in the history of the franchise."   "But it can be argued that XX is one of the greatest palyers in the history of the league."  An honor typically only bestowed on folks that are locks to be first round HOF players based solely on their play for that one team. 

 

We should DEFINITELY not retire Jason Taylor's number.  Great player, but not a franchise changer, and he didn't play his whole career here.  Marino is the only guy worthy of that from our team, that I've seen.  Perhaps some of the older guys, but I wasn't around for them.  There is nobody on our team now worthy of that honor, either. 

I would really like JT to come back for one more year.  I understand he has been screwed by too many changes around here and would like to go out his way this time but I think he has one more good year in him and can allow us to develop another pass rusher behind him.

I love how JT was supposed to be a part time guy this year and pretty much became the full time guy right away.  Why?  Because he is still better than most of the other guys at his position.  I rarely see him in a bad position and he does a great job pushing the QB into our other defenders.

ONE MORE YEAR JT!  WE NEED TO DRAFT A GUY AND HE WILL NEED ONE YEAR!  Then you can ride off into the sunset with pride.  You have been a damn good player for us and shame on all the haters.

I think you guys are going really lax on your standards for retiring a number.  It's a really big deal.  It's not something you can do for every elite player you have.  It's only for the very best of the best of all-time, those that define your franchise at its very core.  Jason Taylor simply is not that.  He was a great player, but he left this team (for whatever reason) on 2 different occassions.  He isn't on the level of a guy like Marino.  ...he's just not.

There are a finite number of jersey #s.

Taylor, without question, in my opinion, doesn't apply.

Guys that do -- Peyton Manning, Brady, Favre...guys like that.  ...franchise defining legends.

Correct, the first time he left begging. The 2nd time Miami didn't offer him a deal. My bad

We have only retired 3. Marino. Csonka. Griese.

And I can't think of another player  in franchise history who deserves the honor to be honest.

Wasn't he traded to the Redskins?

For what it's worth, I'd say Zach deserves it, but it would be hard to retire Zach and not JT.

because Parcells ignored him when JT walked into a room and introduced himself to Bill (the tuna was upset JT skipped all offseason workouts), JT got pissed when he was ignored and asked to be traded. He was traded in late July.

So only QB's then?

No, I mean around the league you got Jerry Rice, Lawrence Taylor, Jim Brown, Ronnie Lott, Reggie White....its not only QB's that should get that honor. But the best of the best. Retiring numbers aren't for guys who were "good" or even "great'. It's for legendary players in franchise history.

The reason I ask is because you don't seem to have a problem with Griese's number being retired and he's not even the best for this franchise let alone the league. I mean there were quite a few QB's back then could be argued were better than Griese. I think an argument can be made that Taylor is the best DE/OLB that Miami has ever had and he's been at least close to one of the best league wide most of the time he's been playing. He was the defensive player of the year once and the AFC defensive player twice.

I'm not really agreeing or disagreeing that Taylor's number should or shouldn't be retired, I just think we throw around QB's names as legendary a LOT easier than we do for defensive lineman. That's all I'm trying to say.

They retired Bob's number a year before Dan got in the league. The Fins couldn't predict Marino would be what he turned out to be. Griese was the starting QB to a team that went to 3 straight Super Bowls, won 2, and had a perfect season. His stats aren't great, but any QB that has that on his resume is "legendary." In a 3 year time span in games he started, Miami was 26-4-1 (that's not counting 12 games of the "perfect season"  that he missed.) Few QB's, if any, can match that for a 3 year time period as a QB. The fact he is also in Canton and was the QB of this team for over a decade and when this franchise had its most success ever also plays in his favor.

So then it's NOT just what you do, it's what your team does while you're on the team as well.  Isn't that a bit unfair to guys like Taylor that just happened to be a great player on an average team? Griese had Csonka and Buoniconti, not to mention Jake Scott and whole host of other guys that were probably better than anybody Taylor ever had the chance to play with other than Zach and Marino at the end of his career.

Bob was the QB. QB's are held to different standards. It's the most important position in all of sports let alone football. They have a direct effect on wins/losses.

If JT was the all time leader in sacks or 2nd on the list or something than yeah he should get his number retired. Being 6th or whatever he is now isn't good enough. If he was considered to be the greatest OLB/DE in the history of the sport, ok then. He wasn't. He wasn't a Super Bowl MVP or anything like that. He doesn't have the resume like guys like Rice, Brown, White, Lott, or other NON-QB's who have their numbers retired.

Which is why I asked only QB's then? Apparently it IS only QB's.

I think QB's get FAR too much credit AND far too much blame. That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

I disagree. QB play is what determines a teams success (or failure) on the NFL level. You can "mask" or "disguise" any other position, you can't hide a flat out bad QB in the NFL. They get the blame and credit as they should, the position IS that important.

And its not only QB's, numerous NON-QB's have had their numbers retired. But they were "special" players. JT while a great player isn't on that level.

Since you brought up Lott lets compare.
They are very similar in number of Pro Bowl selections and All Pro.
Lott has 8.5 sacks and 63 Int's
Taylor has 8 Int's and 139.5 Sacks
Lott owns no NFL records and was never the defensive player of the year
Taylor owns the NFL record for fumble returns for TD's, was twice the AFC Defensive Player of the year, the NFL Defensive Player of the Year, and the PFWA Defensive Player of the Year.
If Lott who was part of a dynasty makes it as a first ballot, then JT should be the same because his resume is at least as impressive as Lott's. He just does not have the rings.
Also JT has better numbers than John Randle who went his second year of eligibility and had his number retired before he entered the HOF.
The Dolphins have less retired numbers than the Vikings do. Apparently only offensive players get their numbers retired in Miami.

Let's examine that statement for a moment. Let's take one QB for example. No, not Dan let's take Tom Brady. Tom is usually considered the reason WHY New England won all those SB's, right? Tom won 3 SB's in 4 years, but he hasn't won another one since. Has he gotten worse? The first year he won, he really wasn't the reason NE won, he really didn't play all that amazing that first year, he played well especially considering it was his first year starting in the NFL, but he's played FAR better lately and he hasn't been able to put together another SB victory. Why?

I put it to you that it wasn't Brady at all that won all those SB's, it was the New England Patriots that won them. All of them. Every last guy from the punter to the kicker to Brady. Not only that, but it was the coaching staff as well. Didn't Brady have a little help from Belicheck? The rest of the coaching staff? Didn't they get SB rings too? I mean shouldn't we just give out 1 SB ring every year, to the QB of the winning team? He's the only one that REALLY deserves one doesn't he?

Did you happen to hear Drew Brees speech after he broke Dan Marino's record? He had it right. It wasn't Drew that broke the record, it was the New Orleans Saints. And it wasn't Marino's record that he broke it was Marino's, Duper's Clayton's etc. Most people just thought that was just Drew being nice, but I actually believe that Drew believed it. He sure sounded sincere to me. I believe it. When Marino was inducted into the hall of fame he threw one last pass to Clayton on that day. Was that just Dan being nice, or was that Dan's way of saying that if it wasn't for Duper and Clayton, he wouldn't be up there? I realize I'm in the minority, but just being in the minority doesn't make you wrong. Right?

And maybe you can't hide a flat out bad QB, but you certainly can take an average QB and make him look a heck of a lot better by putting a whole slew of talented players on the team with him. It's been done numerous times. So just because you have a couple SB's to your name, that doesn't necessarily make you a great QB and a lot of times I think it makes you seem to be a great QB even if your play doesn't really suggest it. I'm not saying Griese wasn't pretty good, he was. But did he win 2 SB's by himself? No, he had a LOT of help.

Drew Brees was being nice. Brady is the Pats and the reason they win, it sure as hell ain't their defense that can't stop anyone. Belichick didn't win anything BEFORE Brady!

It's a Quarterbacks league. Teams failures or success ride on their arms.

Griese would only have 1 SB victory to his name and the "legendary" undefeated '72 Dolphins wouldn't have ever been if not for Earl Morrall.  Who's that? Yeah, exactly.

But he also took a team to the Super Bowl in 1971. Look at Griese's year in 71, I think it was 19 TD's to only 9 INT's. He carried that team that year. That wasn't the year of the running game, that was Bob that year.  3 Super Bowls in a row. Only Jim Kelly can lay claim to doing equal or better. And even Jimbo missed a couple playoff games to injury in that time.

If you want to take the stance Bob Griese wasn't a great QB and doesn't belong in the hall of fame or having his number retired, go for it. I disagree wholeheartedly.

And they LOST that year. Big time. Got killed actually. It was actually when Mercury Morris became the starter over Kiick and the running game REALLY took off that they won the SB.

And it's not really even true that it was all Griese that year. Csonka had thousand yards. That was back in the day when they only played 14 games and back when thousand yards was impressive. Griese had a whopping 2,089 passing yards that year. Not even twice what Csonka alone had running the ball and add in Kiick's 700 and Morris' 300 yards and they almost equalled Griese's passing yards.

Yeah they lost, but at least they got there. Like I said, how many QB's can say they went to 3 straight super bowls. That's what makes Griese special. He played a large factor in that run.

I'm not saying Griese is an all time great QB, he isn't. But in Dolphins history he is a legendary player who deserves his number retired for his accomplishments and success on the field.

Which is based mostly on his team's accomplishments, not on his individual contribution.

Don't get me wrong, I don't begrudge Griese anything, I love the guy, but the facts are that he's a legendary player because he played for the Dolphins when the Dolphins were great. Take away Csonka, Kiick, Scott, Morris etc etc etc and he's just another good QB. In fact that's exactly what happened when all those guys left the NFL and went to play in Canada. The Dolphins never again sniffed a SB with Griese starting. In fact Griese never again won a single playoff game after that and he played for 7 more years.

I think the standards for retiring numbers was lower 20 years ago than it is today.  And yes, QBs are held to a differnent standard.  Numbers are retired only for the "face of the franchise" not many defensive players are ever the face of the franchise.  QBs often are. 

Watching JT being carried off the field was a heck of a "moment." That will go down in Dolphins history.

Might actually beat having the number retired honestly, I don't think any player in franchise history has been carried off by his teammates in their final game.

I thought it was a pretty funny way of expressing his admiration. 

http://articles.boston.com/2012-01-02/sports/30581982_1_jason-taylor-tom-brady-retirement

If I recall Brady had also said he was quite happy when JT had left Miami for Dallas. 

OK that was pretty funny!! Kudos to Brady.

You mean Zach, but I understood. Tom wouldn't be a half bad guy if he didn't play for New England. :)

Actually, I think I got the player right and the team wrong.  I am pretty sure it was Taylor.  But it was Washington not Dallas that I got wrong.   

Ah. Yeah Brady was probably a lot more worried about JT on Sunday's than Zach.