The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/bills-nfl/article747663.ece

So far, it has been reported that Gregg Williams had a bounty system in place when he was with the Bills, Redskins, and Saints.  Do you think the league office is going to take disciplinary action?

Personally, I don't.  Goodell is happy to bring the hammer down on players, but based on the Harbaugh/Schwartz incident last year, it looks like coaches get much more slack.  I guess we'll see.

I think the Saints and Sean Payton each get big fines. Very large amounts. They might lose a mid to late round draft pick. I am not so sure about that honestly. I don't think they will but it wouldn't shock me.

If its proven he did this in Buffalo and Washington then smaller fines might go to those teams but it was so long ago I don't know what that does. But a small fine just for show might be in order there.

Now before the news of this going on in Buffalo and Washington I didn't think anything would really happen to Gregg Williams. But if he has been doing this for a decade plus and its proven he might get a slap on the wrist. Or a game or two suspension.

The emphasis has been on player safety. If the players initiate something like this, that's one thing. The problem is a coach was the guilty party here. Coaches are responsible for their players.  The NFL has a brand to protect.  They should ban him. But will hope that a fine and suspension will suffice.

The one mitigating factor I can see for NO is that every report seems to be consistent in saying that Benson (the owner) found out and told them to shut this down, and Loomis (the GM) ignored him.

If Benson fired Loomis, I think the Saints organization could get off without any punishment at all, with all the fines/suspensions going directly to the involved coaches and the GM.  Since it looks like that's not going to happen*, I see the Saints eating a hefty fine, but no draft pick loss.

*Loomis had better hope he gets the Drew Brees deal under wraps sharpish; if he loses Brees with this scandal already in the wind, his job security is nil.

True. But Benson didn't follow through with his directive. The timeline is very important. It depends on when Benson told Loomis to put a stop to it. It helps that Williams left. But it also depends  on why he left. So, we'll see how this all plays out. Look at the bright side. Miami didn't hire Fisher, so there are no worries about penalties coming here.

Anyone who doesn't think the punishment won't be severe is smoking crack.

Williams probably won't coach this year.  Peyton will be suspended at least a couple games.  The Saints will lose draft picks, even if they bounce their GM first.  I don't think the league will go after individual players.

Circumventing the cap (1) and then a "pay for play" on injuries when the big man's goal in life (Goodell) is to REDUCE injuries?  "Justice" in this one will be severe and brutal.

^^^^
I must agree with Maine here.....I think Goodell is going to lay the smack down here. If nothing else to send a message to the rest of the league.

I agree with Maine.

I figure at a minumium loss of draft picks, a permenent explution of Williams from the league and a hefty fine.

The Patriots camaragate was brought up in the other thread.  Here is why this much more serious.

1.  There is a weak agruement that what the Patriots didn't violate the rules as written.  Godell didn't buy that agruement, and I certainly agree violated the spirt of the rules, but a reasonable agruement could be made that BB had found a technical loophole.  I understand why Godell didn't buy such an agrument, but the amibiguty exists -- enough so that the rule was changed afterwards to make it clear what the Patriots did was not allowed.  No such ambiguity does not exist here.

2. While in both cases it was obviously done with the intent to influence the outcome of games.   There is more reason in injurygate to believe that it did in fact affect the outcome of games.

3.  Injurygate affected more games.  It was relevent in all 16+ games played each season.  Camaragate was only relevent if the NEP played  the same team twice in the same season and then it was only relevent in the second meeting, so 3 regular season games plus some of the playoff games.

4. While either may or may not have had an impact on specifiic games, injurygate may have prematurely ended so players carreers including future hall of famer Peyton Manning.  Nobody needed medical attention or lost playing time because of the NEP. 

5.  Injurygate may have therefore have affected game beyond the ones in which it occured.  Such as this years entire Viking and Colts season.

6. This violated the CBA.  NE's infraction was entirely a league matter. 

7.  Injurygate made a complete mockery of Godell's fines for late hits.  If Godell fines a play $5,000 for a late hit and the team then gives the player a $6,000 bonus for the late hit.  It completely defeats the purpose of Godell's punishment system.

8.  Unless the income was reported to the IRS, this was an illegal act of tax evasion.  NE's camaragate, unlike what was done here, was not a federal felony. 

Based on the severity of rule violation and Godell's past history of severe punishments, I expect a very serious smack down on this. 

I want to get on board in saying that this is a VERY big deal, that will likely have big penalties.  The NFL just can't afford this hit to their image, but more importantly, to their wallet.  The NFLPA will have their ass, when lawsuits come down the pike for needless head injuries.

Williams gets 8 games to 1 year.
Payton gets 3-4 games.
The Saints get a fine and lose draft picks.

There is no reason that the NFL shouldn't throw the book at them, especially when all parties are admitting wrong-doing.  It's the only move.

I don't think this says what you think it says.

I will happily go on the record with my disagreement, to the following extent:

1) Gregg Williams will definitely be permitted to coach in the NFL in 2012*
2) Sean Payton will be suspended ONE game at an absolute maximum (I honestly don't think he'll even get suspended at all)

*I say "permitted to coach" because he might be let go or decide to "resign"; in any case, he will not be suspended for a full season

They should have put a bounty on Marshawn Lynch maybe they could have tackled him in that playoff game they lost 2 years back

You can't bring down a man that is high in Skittles. Case in point, his 8 broken tackle, Beast Mode scamper to the end zone.
Taste the rainbow.

Don't forget the "fanquake"

How much leeway does Goodell have in punishing coaches? I recall Belichick getting the absolute max available in spygate (a paltry $250k fine or something).

Nope.  That's what I get for rushing.

I disagree with you on Williams.  I don't think he will see a football field this season, except from a TV at home.

What kind of world do we live in where we discuss athletes & coaches and call a $250K fine paltry? What sickens me is how many of those guys end up broke anyway.

Back on topic, I thought it was a $500K fine but might be mistaken.

BB was fined $250K personally.  The team was fined $500 K.  Total fine was 3/4 of a million. 

If he makes $5 million, a $250K fine is most certainly a paltry sum.

^^^ And my point is, what kind of world is that?

I will say this...

The NFL is taking an awfully long time to make a move on this, and the longer they take, the longer ESPN gets to do what they do when they don't have real news: manufacture the news.  As days and weeks pass, we will inevitably see more stories go from calls for fines, to calls for suspensions, to calls for firing, to calls for lifetime bans.

So I will temper my original statement and say that the longer the NFL drags this out, the more severe the punishments will become for all involved parties (not just Williams).

Today Rex Ryan was asked about the bounty program and said that he offered his players bounties as well being it is one of his favorite candy bars.

(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTzz10gdjX8ETfZsTs5grByDMDh-JeLenNTSVB_z8foRw6XCx2iww)

Well, looks like I was completely wrong.  Goodell came down with the hammer of God on the offenders:

- $500k fine for the Saints + two second-round picks confiscated
- GM Mickey Loomis suspended for 8 games
- Head coach Sean Payton suspended for a year
- Assistant coach Joe Vitt suspended for 6 games
- Rams defensive coordinator Gregg Williams suspended "indefinitely" (but at least a year)

This kind of makes Spygate and Tripgate seem like a slap on the wrist, but whatever.  It's nice to see management being held to a standard close to that of the players, for once.

I know they tagged Brees, but how does this effect talks?

Talk about a Ten Ton Hammer. Wow!

As far as Brees, it depends. Depends on how desperate the Saints are to have a silver lining. And how willing Brees is to lead this train wreck.

Goodell reached across the country and knocked the Saints squarely on their butts.  They will have to either designate an interim head coach or get rid of Sean Payton. 

As for Brees, it depends on whether or not he wants to be there.  If I'm not mistaken, the cost to acquire a franchised player is two first round picks although the team can negotiate for less.

What does suspending a GM for 6 games do? Is that just saying he's not going to be paid for 6 weeks?

The Saints slapped Brees with the exclusive franchise tag. As the name implies, no other team can approach him.

The Saints are always free to try and work out a trade, but since Brees hasn't actually signed the tender (and reportedly has no intention of doing so anytime soon), any potential trading partner would almost certainly require Brees to agree to a contract of some sort (meaning a trade wouldn't be feasible without Brees' accept).

and can't make player moves, be involved with the team etc.

I figured the punishment would be big.....but WOW this was a complete shock. I figured Williams would get a year off but not Payton.....I think Goodell wanted to send a clear message to the league and he did just that.

The punishments don't just reflect the bounty program, but the cover up after they got caught the first time and continueing it.