The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

I like the idea of getting Manning because I think it makes us immediately relevant.  It will take our team away from being an embarrassment and it will shift the story to the players on the field.  There will be excitement around the franchise again.

I don't like the idea of getting Manning because I don't think he'll ever lead a team to the Super Bowl again.  I think that it's unlikely we'll get the same caliber of play from him that we saw in Indy.  This is for two reasons: 1) he's older and has been hurt and 2) we're not the Colts.  It's probably not a smart decision in terms of winning long-term.

I don't think this has anything to do with a long-term goal, as what, he has 3 or 4 years left if he stays healthy? I think we would be in a win now mode and maybe you hope he trains the new QB who would replace him.

I'm just wondering what type of system would we be running and who would be calling the plays. Does Peyton act like the guy from the Colts or is the OC actually going to do his job?

He is getting old and he is one hit from playing his last down.  I see any team who signs him wasting a lot of money with absolutely nothing to show for it.  Therefore my first choice is he signs with the Jets.  My second choice would be the Dolphins or the Bills. 

u don't have to have a record breaking season, and be the best qb for 18 or 19 games. just have to get to the tournament and be the hottest qb in 3 or 4 games.

get in the playoffs, with 4 games to win and you have peyton throwing the football for you? yeah, i'll take that...

Peyton is a great (elite) indoor QB.  He a good (but not great) outdoor QB.  His numbers have benifited greatly from playing all his home games and many of his road games in domes.  (3 out of 4 AFCS teams have domes). 

Not saying his a bad outdoor QB, but he is not a great QB outdoors had he been orginally drafted by an outdoor team he would still have been good enough to keep the starting job, but it is unlikely he would have all his MVPs and be a lock for the HOF. 

I welcome him to come to the AFCE.   

Cineversity is starting...so a quick comment...

I think we need to play it smart,and Agree with Hoodie this could be a disaster,and need to play it like we did Kyle Orton....Shark tank like...

Hey Peyton, We'll give you $$$,we'll let you run your offense,We'll build around you to win now,But we wont guarantee you that we wont sign another QB,or draft a QB...That's our offer,or We're out....

I think if you sign Peyton, you have to give me hope for the years 2014 and beyond.I think as a franchise wee need to cover our tails for once.......It's just the way I feel...I don't have a prayer that actually happen....

I look at it as "let's try something different."

We've tried the diamond-in-the-rough second-rounders.
We've tried raiding other teams' backup QBs.
So let's go for either a blue-chip QB (RG3) or an aging HOFer (Manning).

BS.  Any great QB will have a better record in whatever type of stadium his home stadium is... particularly since every game that isn't of that type will be a road game!  Brett Favre was a "horrible" dome QB... then he went to Minnesota in 2009 and went 10-0 in domes.  I guess he instantly learned how to play in a dome!

Do you honestly believe that if Peyton Manning had been drafted by San Diego, he'd be considered a "good (but not great)" QB?  He would have played over 75% of his games in outdoor stadiums.

Name them.

Can Miami even afford Peyton?  Last I heard, Miami has only $16 million in cap room.  Sure you can restructure a few contracts here and there (Dansby, Bell, etc).  I know Peyton has already said it's not about the money..but he's going to get a nice contract. Miami needs help on both sides of the line..is putting all your eggs in Manning's basket the wise thing to do?  If that right side of the offensive line can't protect Peyton, he's going to last as long as Culpepper did. 


Idk, I'm not trying to sound like a pessimist..I want Peyton as much as the next guy.  I just feel like there's some sort of catch.

I for one am not torn at all......if we have an opportunity to sign one of the best QB's the league has ever seen......we do it. He is a proven player and a Peyton Manning even at 80% is better than any QB we have had since Marino. In my opinion there is no more risk in this than signing an unproven Matt Flynn to a huge deal or taking a chance on an unproven Luck or RGIII who could be the next Manning or the next Leaf.

^^^ EXACTLY

ah it's going to be great seeing peyton against that vaunted patriots secondary... same one that let henne rip them for like 400 yards

I, too, am torn with Peyton.

It brings instant credibility to the team if he is signed.  Not just within the league, but when you've got a HOFer under center, I would imagine the whole team feels a lot better about themselves and their chances.  I'm sure every member of the team would welcome it...except maybe Matt Moore, but I think he'd understand. :P
If Peyton does play in Miami, then priority #1 this off-season is getting a line that can keep him upright.  Not just a good line, but it would need to be a damn good line if you're serious about keeping him injury free.

My ONLY concern with Manning is the potential injury situation.  It makes me think Matt Flynn would actually be the less risky pick up.  (Would love RG3, but that ain't gonna happen.)

As much as I would love to see this..don't pre-order the jersey just yet lol

Not torn at all.  Sell the farm for him.  Give him whatever he wants, and don't let him leave Miami without autographing a deal first.  Address everything else through the draft.

Don't let this be another Drew Brees situation.

Can't wait to see what the next thing is for all those "we need a QB" people.

Not only is Matt Flynn less risky in terms of injuries, but he also is familiar with Joe Philbin's system.  Peyton Manning is not.  Flynn is less risky because he is a better fit.


With Manning's injury, this has the potential of being another Daunte Culpepper situation.

Flynn is more likely to be a total bum.   The guy has 2 NFL starts.  Less risky?  He's unproven if ever there was one.

How anyone would want to pass up a future HOF QB for a guy with 2 starts is beyond me.

Flynn is the next in line for guys that were supposed to be good and never panned out.  No thanks.  Peyton is the guy.

The reason why I don't want Manning is because I don't think that he should play football ever again. I'm sure that he kind of likes being able to walk. That being said, if we do end up with him, chances are that we'd also end up with Reggie Wayne, and maybe even Jeff Saturday. Assuming that he has a nice, healthy 3, or 4 year term with the Phins, the addition of one or both of his free agent teammates would be a god thing for Miami. I really don't know yet if I'd prefer Manning or moving up in the draft to take a QB, the possible addition of both Manning and Wayne intrigues me.

Manning = "free" (don't have to give up something but money to get him)
Moving up in the draft = costing you a crapload of draft picks

Would rather bring in Manning and fill in draft picks in other positions of need, like safety or RB?

I'm with Spider. Time to take a different approach. If we sacrifice and hit with RGIII then long term that might be better but it would be fun to have some immediate results. Even if we don't win it will be fun as long as Peyton is playing.

I liked this quote from Wayne today ...

Meanwhile, Wayne, Manning’s longtime teammate, told WQAM’s Michael Irvin that playing with Manning and Dolphins receiver Brandon Marshall “can be truly be dangerous if they put us all together. The league might not want to see that. South Florida is already hot out here. You put us together, it would be burning up. I would love it. I’m totally available.”


Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/08/2681590_p2/miami-dolphins-very-confident.html#storylink=cpy

Its not a popular idea, but I would pass on Manning. If Miami had Seattle money, that might change my mind. QB is not the only problem, just the most expensive. Manning alone would swallow up all of their cap space. You start adding Wayne or Saturday, and others are being cut. A healthy Manning would be worth it. But he's not. Sorry. And sticking him behind a worse line than last year is suicide.

Regarding cap space, it wouldn't be difficult AT ALL to get Manning, Wayne, and still have room left. According to multiple reports, the Dolphins will have approximately $112 million committed against the 2012 NFL salary cap. While the exact cap number hasn’t been released yet, it’s expected to be in the neighborhood of $120-125 million.
 
That leaves $8-$13 million in cap space heading into free agency, plyus the "carry over" space from the 2011 season, $9 million, into the 2012 salary cap.
 
So, in total, Miami has roughly $17-$22 million in cap space as free agency opens in 2012. Take out about $5 million for rookies, and you have $12-$17 million in cap space, even without potentially restructuring some of the high dollar cap hits they have currently (Jake Long, Brandon Marshall, and Karlos Dansby all have cap hits above $11 million for the 2012 season. All three could convert some of their money into other types of bonuses, clearing additional cap room for the 2012 season and future seasons.).

So how would a contract for Manning impact the Dolphins’ salary cap situation? Hypothetically:

* $15 million signing bonus
 * $5 million base salary in 2012
 * $10 million in easily-reachable performance incentives (playing 10 percent of the team’s snaps, throwing for 100 yards in a game, throwing one touchdown in a game, etc.)
 * $8 million in gameday bonuses ($500,000 for every game he is active)

If that was the case:
Total cash received by Manning in 2012: $38 million
Salary cap charge: $10 million ($5 million base salary, $5 million signing bonus (1/3 of total))


If Manning achieves the $18 million in incentives at the end of the season, let’s say it puts the Dolphins $9 million over the 2012 salary cap. In that case, the Dolphins will take a $9 million salary cap penalty for 2013.

This, or course, leaves between 2 and 7 million in cap space, without any type of restructuring by current players. What is Reggie Wayne looking for? Reports are, comparable to the three-years, $15 million deal his former UM teammate, Santana Moss, got from the Washington Redskins last year.

That deal included a $5 million signing bonus and $6 million in guarantees from the Redskins. The cap hit on that deal would be about $2.67 million in the first season.

Easily achievable, with 5 million left for rookies. Restructuring would open anothe 2-3 million for other free agents. Bottom line is that they could bring in two pro-bowlers and have a legit shot at winning at a level not seen since Marino for 2-4 years. How do you pass on that???

Sources: Sun Sentinal, Palm Beach Post, CBS Miami. -EK

Update:

I'm on board with Manning.  Thinking about it, since it's only money and not a trade or cap hit that's going into the long future, I'm for it.  It'll give me something to enjoy on the weekends.

So you would change your mind if he was totally healthy for game 1? What if he is? It certainly looks like he will be based on current progress. His neck is already fine. Been cleared to play by doctors. He's no more at risk to hurt the neck than any other QB in the league including Matt Flynn. The arm strength is the ONLY question now and recent reports have shown significant progress. It's only March. He still has 6 months to be ready for game 1. There's no guarantee, but at this point the odds that he'll be ready are better than the odds that he won't.

Peyton is arguably the biggest free-agent prospect in the history of the league.  If he wants to come to Miami, you sign him.  If it turns out that he can't get healthy, then you lose some money on an incentive-laden contract and you get to cut ties with him quickly.

If Flynn doesn't pan out, Miami will be stuck with him for at least 2-3 years and will take a huge cap hit when they cut him.
If RG3 doesn't pan out, that's three-ish high value draft picks down the drain.

Conversely, look at the upside.  A healthy Manning immediately makes this team a championship contender; we already know what he can do.  Flynn's ceiling might be anywhere from AJ Feeley to Kevin Kolb to Matt Hasselbeck, but it's unknown.  RG3 could be Cam Newton, Matt Stafford or David Carr.  We don't know.

What I will say is that the argument that MIA might only contend for 2-3 years with Peyton but could contend for a decade with Flynn or RG3... that argument is greedy and stupid.  The Dolphins haven't won a championship in nearly 40 years; if Peyton wins exactly one Super Bowl with the Dolphins, then picking him up was a good decision, period.

I know this is a popular trend in South Florida, but before you worry about winning "five, six, seven" titles, try worrying about winning ONE.

Agree with everything except that if Peyton wins exactly one it's a good decision, it's a GREAT decision.  I'll take competing for the division with the Patriots for the next 3 years and perhaps watching meaningful games in December. If we get that out of Peyton it would be a good decision.

At best, they are a playoff contender with Peyton. He didn't play last year. He had 4 operations in the last 18 months. His doctors say he's OK to play. An incentive laden contract gets them through this year. Those incentives count next season. Why is that important? Because less than 10 wins won't make the playoffs this year. Peyton doesn't block or play defense. If QB were the only issue, then I would seriously consider it. Peyton didn't play a down last season. Not one. That matters when you're 36. If he signs, I will support it. If he doesn't, I won't be disappointed. No matter how they structure his contract, this season isn't the one that you need to keep in mind. Its next season when those "incentives" truly handcuff the team.

I'm pretty sure we can mostly agree that while there are definite holes on this team, the QB issue is the biggest. You get the right guy in there, then you can deal with the deficiencies of some positions. Look at what we did with Matt Moore. If you stuck someone like Peyton in there at the start of this past season, we would for sure have been in the playoffs.

Put a quality QB on Miami and this team wins 10 games, wild card team at worse!

Defense was 6th in points allowed

The o-line is fixable a lot easier than most think. With Jon Jerry coming on and Murtha coming back its not impossible to fix easily. At most they need to add 1 guy.

The WR's are good (not great) add Wayne then the unit becomes great!

Bush/Thomas is a nice tandem. I believe in Daniel Thomas still. Give him an offseason program and some OTA's to get ready and I think he will be fine. With no offseason and his early injury he started off behind the 8 ball last year.

The defense has few holes. 1 pass rusher, 1 CB, and a safety. And honestly, I would ignore CB because there are few if any quality CB's in this league anymore, nobody covers anyone. The rules make it impossible. So why spend money there.

These people who say pass on Manning to fill all these other holes, there aren't that many other holes to fill in reality! QB is the only one that matters too!

So I'm guessing you also agreed with the decision not to pursue Michael Vick?

Add Reggie Wayne and MIA has the best WR corps in the league... and I don't think there's a team that's a close second.  (NO and IND are both being decimated this season.)

I can agree that the QB hole is very important. Its exciting to even be in the position of having options that could work. Realistically, all 3 (Manning, Flynn, & Griffin) have reasonable pros & cons. On paper, Manning makes perfect sense.  But, games aren't won on paper. If he signs, I will support that. It shows that Ross/Ireland are trying to build a winner. I just disagree with buying the "flashiest" name. Either way, it makes for a fun offseason. For once.

So here's a quick question. Why not pair Wayne with Flynn in the new offensive scheme? Cost effective, but effective.

cost effective? You think Matt Flynn is coming for free? Flynn is getting between $20-24 (roughly) guaranteed money! That's cost effective?

Its not $20-24  mil per year. So, in my eyes it would be.

Peyton ain't getting anywhere near that "per year"   ::)

Two words: Kevin Kolb. Flynn is a back up. If he was good enough to start he would have already. Vegas odds on Miami without Peyton: 7.4 wins, 21.5% chance of making playoffs, 3.6% chance of winning the division. WITH Manning: 10.5 wins, 73.9% chance of playoffs, 26.8% of winning the division. These oddsmakers have no dog in the fight. They are there to make money. Any single player that can add 3 wins, triple your chance at making the playoffs, and increase your shot at a division title by 20% is a no-brainer. These aren't odds on if he's healthy. They're not odds on if he runs a specific offense. They're flat odds on if the team signs him. This is a no brainer. -EK

If Wallace stays in Pitt they would be up there, but overall I agree with you. Throw Reggie Wayne on Miami, with Marshall, Bess, Gates, and Hartline and that is a scary good unit!

Because Reggie Wayne is a free agent, can choose where he signs, and is quite likely to steer himself towards the same team as the QB who made him a first-team All-Pro WR the last time he was playing?

Signing Manning dramatically increases MIA's chances of signing Wayne (at a discount, no less).  Not signing Manning nearly eliminates the chances of signing Wayne.

I see your points. But Wayne has never said he wouldn't sign without Manning.  It may be true that signing Manning is a key to signing Wayne. But, there's a possibility of signing Wayne without Manning. He played without him last year.  Just thinking of different angles here. One of the knocks I had against Flynn was Green Bay's personnel. Marshall, Wayne, Bess, Hartline, Bush, & Faisano definitely trumps Jennings, Driver, Nelson, & Finley.

Wayne wants to play with Peyton.  Bottom line, whoever signs Peyton has the lead horse in the Reggie Wayne lottery as well.

I have no problem bringing Reggie Wayne into Miami at all.  If it takes Peyton to bring him here, it would be worth it.  Even if Manning is too hurt to play, I still like Matt Moore throwing to Reggie Wayne and Brandon Marshall.

I wonder if signing Reggie ahead of Peyton would convince Peyton a bit.  However, I don't think Reggie will even consider anything until Peyton decides.

I think Peyton-Wayne-Marshall becomes a scary good combo.  I think Manning will make Bess into Wes Welker, and Hartline into Pierre Garcon/Austin Collie.  I think the only thing the Dolphins risk by signing Manning is him being injured and them having to go out looking for another QB a year from now, whereas trading picks to move up causes Miami to be unable to fill in holes on Oline and defense while the team ages around a rookie QB that's not ready to play in the NFL.

I think this team lost a lot of 20-17 games over the years, and Manning instantly brings Miami's offensive output to 27.  You do what it takes to win while you can; there are no assurances either way (rebuilding vs. win now).  The basis is set.  The trenches are strong, the skill positions are decent to good.  We need a QB, a FS, a RT, and a pass rusher.  Add Manning and the rest is doable.

Some reports say the Denver meeting went well. Others say Denver is still not a likely spot for Manning. Who the F' knows really. Although when Archie said last night Miami is still in play, I had Jeff Fisher flashbacks from a few months ago when his people said stuff like that to string the Fins along to the very end.

I guess Jacksonville is already all over Tebow when  the Broncos trade him IF they get Manning. They want to sell tickets and Denver wants his ass gone ASAP if Manning is signed. They have already contacted Denver about it.

Worst Case Scenario
Wash-RGIII
Seattle-Flynn
Denver-Manning
Browns-Tannehill (talk this morning they could take him as high as 4 now)

Miami......left holding their you know what in their hands and overpaying for Kyle friggin Orton.

Dirty Sanchez signed an extension with the Jests, so that's one less team interested in Manning.   :)

Why do I keep getting the word, at least on ESPN, that the Broncos have a shot with Manning?  I mean, John Elway speaks to him and the ESPN about annoints him the next DEN QB.

I think the weather is a factor in DEN for him.  He will WANT great weather.  DEN is good for about 6 weeks into the season and then late October it can turn shitty on a dime. 

I think DEN has NO SHOT at him.  MIA will have to drop the ball for him not to play here.  If they can get Reggie Wayne in FA, that offense is gonna stand up and kick some ass.  I believe a solid 1st round pick for either a can't miss Tackle or a stud Pass Rusher/Safety and this team makes monumental leaps as being a playoff contender in 2012.

Like I said earlier, get 3 solid, good years out of Peyton and draft a 2nd/3rd round QB to learn under him for the coming years.

$50 mill in cap space is why Denver is a player in this. They can sign Manning. Then bring in Wayne. Saturday. Garcon. Clark and still have money to trade for Freeney if they want! No other team can give him that.

I am not saying Manning will go to Denver. But IF he does, that will be why!

Arguement for Denver over Miami:

1. Denver won a playoff game without a passing game -- whats the odds they can win multiple playoff games if you add someone who can pass the ball.

2. The path to the playoffs is easier in the AFCW.  Pats and Jets are both more forimble obsticals than KC, Oakland or SD.  

3. More salary cap. 

Not saying he is going to Denver, but there is pleny of reasons for him to like the situation there. 

^^^ I have read that Manning specifically would not consider #2 in his evaluations.  From his perspective, he doesn't worry about what teams are in the division he goes to; he feels like the other teams should worry about him.

If that story is accurate, then I would think MIA has an advantage: the ability to end the playoff hopes of Brady and the Patriots in week 16 or 17 could be an incentive, particularly if Peyton is thinking about "Brady vs. Manning" legacy stuff.

Keep in mind that playing in an easy division only punches your ticket to the playoffs (and might get you some home playoff games).  Is a home playoff game in DEN or KC, in January mind you, against the Steelers or Patriots really that much of a benefit?