The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

Rant brought on by reading EPSN.

Joe Philbin DID NOT make a mistake by calling a timeout to ice the kicker, you can't take an event which occurs afterwards and use it as justification for not doing something prior to that which made emminent sense at the time.

You can call it an unlucky call, but you cannot call it a mistake. People cannot predict the future, he could not know the kick would be blocked, and if he hadn't have called the timeout you cannot guarantee the events would have unfolded the same way.

End of rant.

p.s. the use of a timeout to ice the kicker is a rubbish rule and should not be allowed, don't know how you get around it though short of defining a set period of time once the FG unit is set to call a timeout (for defensive adjustments in the event of a suspected playfake), once the time expires the playclock continues and all TO's are off. Any event where the public can be mislead as to the outcome of a result is not good for the viewing public, it's not acceptable to have a set of fans thinking they've won because they've seen the play on the field.

Happens all the time. That's one reason we have instant replay .... but that in itself contributes to misleading as well.


Icing the kicker does not statistically help. It's a tradition. The truth is coaches are called out all the time for not "icing  the kicker".  It's on of those things where you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

I read something yesterday that was both funny and true. You don't "Ice" a QB in the final minute so what makes a kicker such a less mentally stable athlete that "icing" him will freak him out?

I have never been a fan of icing the kicker. To me, it is nothing more than a practice play for the offense. Statistically, from what I heard yesterday, the kick is more likely to be good on the second attempt more often than the first. Makes sense to me.

The last second icing TO is the dumbest fucking coaching move in all of football. I laugh my ass off when dumbass coaches get burned doing it.... well normally I'm laughing my ass off.

LOL Yeah, it is one of those things that worked "ONCE" for "ONE" guy and now everyone does it.

I thought about this yesterday, before Fat Rex "iced" Carpenter...

If you're a kicker in that situation, wouldn't you walk out there knowing a timeout is about to be called?  Thus, what's the big deal?  I'd think it would be more mentally disturbing to NOT call the timeout, have an unprepared kicker waiting for you to call your timeout, and then be forced to snap the ball and go, perhaps less prepared or even moderately distracted.

Acutally he did make a mistake....

But not based on what happened on the field.  The commentators pointed out (i think it was right before the kick) that statistically kickers are successful 3% more often post-icing than when not iced.

Plus (less scientic study) in my personal memory I can recall 6 or 7 times in which a kicker missed the FG and there was a late time TO and was successful on the second try.  I can only recall 2 times when he was successful the first time and missed the second.  If my personal memory does in fact reflect the overall trend that means that icing the kicker is very very counterproductive.

Before you respond, "but lots of coaches including BB ice the kicker" Yes, I know that.  But every coach, should know the stats and none should be icing the kicker 'cause it doesn't work. 

I call BS. I would love for someone to do a statistical analysis but my observation is that I have seen many more kicks missed initally and then made after that timeout is called.

I am so opposed to this practice that I responded before reading any other post. I see there are some stats to back me up.

^^^^ They have already done the statistics. I believe the commentators mentioned this.

Hoodie mentioned it above your post.

I don't know why a coach would want to give kickers (essentially) a practice kick.  That's why the last second icing timeout is not a good strategy.

I would love to see the NFL get rid of the coach's ability to call timeouts.  TO's should be called by the folks on the field, not the sideline.

Not sure what that would do, QB and one defensive player has a head set.  If their boss says call a TO they are gonna call a TO. 

Do the radios go silent at the snap or at a certain point in the play clock?  I forget the rule on that.

Regardless, I'd prefer the NFL return to rule about players having to call timeouts.

If this loss leads to fewer icing the kicker timeouts, it would almost be worth it.

I think that the NFL should disallow icing.  It's stupid and ineffective, anyway, but moreso, it extends the game by and extra few minutes.  Games are already too long.

I would make the rule that you aren't allowed to call timeouts in the FG formation once the offense is set, but it's up to the referee's discretion.  If it's a rushed FG, then the ref has the ability to allow it to let the defense catch up.  But on a full play where the defense is prepared, no timeout allowed.

I have always hated this practice and I have seen it backfire more times that I have seen it work. I did not get to see the ending of the game as I was heading into the Stadium in AZ and OT was running during the 1st quarter but when I saw the highlights later on the Jumbotron I was pissed!!!!!

I like where you are going Dave but you can't leave it up to the ref's discretion. That is a disaster waiting to happen. Easier thing to do is have it be when the play clock is under 15 or 10 you can't call a timeout. So, it still gives a coach the opportunity to call one just not at the very last second. And it gives the offense the opportunity to snap it before the 10 or 15 second mark to maybe catch the other coach off guard as he is waiting for a certain moment. I think that is fair to everyone. But, either way I have no problem with coaches doing the "icing thing" honestly. Because it makes the coaches look stupid if it doesn't work (like yesterday). If I were a coach I would just always call it or never call it that way you don't feel foolish if it backfires. You just say "that is our policy"

I think 10 seconds.  But its not like the decision is made at the last second.

^ I only said "ref's discretion," because I envision a hurry-up type situation, where the defense may legitimately call a timeout to set their players when there were only seconds left in the game, with the clock running.

AND GETTING LONGER!! It is out of control, esp. with these bozos running the circus this year. Did you know that not a single game, NOT 1 game, that started at 1:00 p.m. last Sunday finished within 3 hours.