The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

5 games, 2 at home 3 on the road, only 1 against a lesser opponent and 2 against very good opponents. Would love to have the Jets game back, but 2-3 is about where I thought they would be right now. Still a lot of season left to play. Could be better, but it could also be a LOT worse. Let's see how it all works out, but right now I can't complain. All the games have been entertaining, even the Houston game. Been a LONG time since I've been able to say that.

I think right now at 2-3 is our worst case scenario. We gave away 2 games to the Jets and Cardinals. At the beginning of the season, I think we would've taken 2-3 and been happy about it. However, with the way they have played, 2-3 is a letdown considering how we got there.

I'm fine with it too. One more win and they beat my preseason prediction of 2-14. They show progress every week. Gotta love the direction. It just sucks to know that they could be 4-1. But I'll take what we have.

While I didn't expect playoffs this year and I still don't, I  see this year less about the amount of wins as I do setting the foundation going forward. The 3 biggest things that stand out so far are...

1) Tannehill is the answer at QB. He might not be a superstar (although the potential is there) but he gets better each week, he isn't overwhelmed or have that deer in the headlights look some rookies have. The guy makes tough throws, has an elite NFL arm that can make all the throws, he comes up big on 3rd and long's more often than not thus far, AND...with little help at WR he is playing well. It's not like Tanny is getting "bailed out" by great talent around him.

2) The o-line is fixed. Jon Jerry and Jonathan Martin fixed the right side of the o-line. Pouncey might be going to the Pro Bowl this year. Ireland fixed the o-line. Just gotta make sure Jerry doesn't gain a bunch of weight in the offseason. It's up to his teammates to stay on him about that.

3) The secondary is actually better and improves each week. Yes, overall the unit is weak, not going to deny that. Not denying that. BUT, Jones and Smith are legit NFL starters now. Sean Smith finally gets it and is becoming a #1 NFL CB in this league. He improves each week. He has done well the past 2 games vs Fitz and Green. Jones is an outstanding safety. He really is good. He also improves each week.  Now the rest of the CB's stink and Clemons isn't anything special. But the unit was good for most of the Arizona game, broke down in the 4th quarter and OT. And it was good today vs Cincy. The unit will probably still be "BAD" overall the rest of the year. They are clearly a weak link. But if we come out of this season with Smith and Jones as legit players in our secondary, then man does that solve a lot of things moving forward and make it easier to fix this unit!

This team has a great d-line. A great o-line. A good looking young QB who improves every game. A nice trio at RB. Jesus christ, get some CB's and WR's and this team is legit!

I predicted the Dolphins to go 6-10.  They are right on pace for that.

I think they will get more than 6. Might only be 7 or 8 but they will get more than 6 wins. Fins still got Jags, Titans, Indy, Buffalo TWICE, Jets, Rams, Seattle.  Out of those 8 games at worse they win 5, they might win 6 or 7 in reality! At Buffalo on a short week could be tricky. But the rest of those games the Fins should be favored in.  And I see ALL of those teams struggling to score on the Fins defense.

If Miami went 7-9 or 8-8 I wouldn't be shocked.

Great post Mike, agree on all points. Something to be excited about on Sundays again...

Yeah, I am enjoying watching Tannehill grow. He's not flashy, but showing poise and limiting mistakes is pretty much the ceiling for a rookie QB. Unfortunately, Cam Newton, RG3 and Luck have created some unrealistic expectations for a rookie QB.

To me, the biggest thing the team needs to learn is how to close. Bigger than even Tanny's growth. We can't give away games and we have done that twice already and almost a third time today. If we just play tougher in the 4th, I think we can contend for the division next year. The Jets and Bills suck and Brady will be another year older, it's getting to be that time.

Great post Mike.  Agree 100%.  While it sucks that Miami could VERY easily be 4 - 1 right now, I"ll take the foundation this team seems to have laid.  Tannehill impresses me more and more each week.  You said it perfectly with him not being overwhelmed.  I like his scrambling and making something happen ability.  I also like that you mentioned Jones at safety.  He's looking like a beast and one of the sure tacklers in our secondary.  The O line seems to have FINALLY been solidified.  Good trio of RB's, QB of the future, stout defense.  I like the outlook of this team.  The couple close loses just leave a bitter taste in your mouth. 

I'm trying to contrast my opinion of Tannehill now with my opinion of Henne in 2009 at a similar point.

I think I was higher on Henne (because of the epic orange jersey Jets game).  However, Tannehill is a true rookie starter and has had to face tougher opponents, I think.

Outside of a deep playoff run, I can't really pass judgment either way until the end of next season.

To bad you won't go away!

Mike nailed it. Get some key guys on the D re-signed, get a CB and ball hawk Safety & a WR.

Not sure if this it true but I read somewhere that of the rookie qbs RT has the best 4th qtr qb rating @ #11.

RT is 19th and rising. Throw out the Houston game and he is in the top 12 or so. Was real happy to see he had a game with no turnovers.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr

Actually, there's an interesting related article from ESPN Insider; it gives an adjusted QBR based on the strength of the defenses the QB has faced.  It's behind a paywall, so I'll just give the meat (these stats were prior to yesterday's games):

Opponent-Adjusted QBR Rankings
Rank    QB              QBR    Adj.QBR  Change in rank
01      A. Luck         81.9   87.7     0
02      J. Flacco       69.7   83.0     +7
03      Big Ben         80.4   83.0     -1
04      E. Manning      63.7   80.0     +10
05      M. Ryan         80.0   79.7     -2
06      M. Schaub       74.3   79.2     +1
07      P. Manning      76.7   77.8     -2
08      A. Dalton       78.3   76.6     -4
09      C. Ponder       68.9   69.2     +1
10      T. Brady        76.6   69.2     -4
11      R. Griffin      68.7   66.4     0
12      R. Tannehill    48.9   63.7     +10
13      C. Palmer       63.1   63.2     +2
14      A. Smith        69.8   62.9     -6
15      J. Locker       68.5   59.9     -3
16      A. Rodgers      60.9   59.7     0
17      R. Fitzpatrick  53.3   57.1     +4
18      M. Vick         55.4   55.7     +1
19      M. Stafford     59.1   53.3     -2
20      K. Kolb         41.7   51.8     +7
21      T. Romo         47.0   51.1     +3
22      B. Gabbert      44.2   48.9     +3
23      P. Rivers       68.4   46.8     -10
24      J. Cutler       43.3   45.9     +2
25      C. Newton       57.9   42.8     -7
26      D. Brees        53.8   39.9     -6
27      S. Bradford     37.3   36.6     +1
28      R. Wilson       30.4   35.9     +3
29      M. Sanchez      36.5   33.0     0
30      M. Cassel       48.7   25.4     -7
31      J. Freeman      33.1   23.1     -1
32      B. Weeden       10.1   9.4      0

Tannehill was tied with Eli for the biggest jump when it came to adjusted QBR.

Heading into this week it was at 94.8 rating in the 4th quarter, 11th best in the entire league among all QB's (not just rookies). Not sure where it is now after this weeks games and all.

We get to see Jabar Gaffney this week. Hopefully he can give Miami a legit 3rd WR. Because in time teams will figure out a way to stop Hartline and Bess. Armstrong and Moore can't cut it. We need 1 more WR to step up. Gaffney might be it.

In time? Hartline had one ridiculous game. The rest of the year, it appears teams already figured out how to stop them both. Minus the Cards game, Hartline is averaging 65 yards a game and has no TDs. Bess is at 69 a game and hasn't scored. Miami is still a run-first team. They don't need a third WR- they need a TE who can actually hang on to the ball. -EK

Here we go...now you are gonna "HATE" on Hartline...lol lol. The comedy never stops!  He leads the NFL in receiving yards through 5 games and he missed an entire preseason and all those workouts and has a rookie QB but now he is no good too!! What not good enough for ya being the NFL's #1 WR yardage wise through 5 games? What, can't hate on Tannehill this week so now its time to bash Hartline?! Only 1 "ridiculous game"....I guess the Raiders game doesn't count where he had 9 receptions and 111 yards? Give me a break.  And why you ripping Fasano? He hasn't dropped anything this year that I remember (or has a drop being really crucial at least.)

Such a Dolphins hater and troll.

Who was hating? Stop twisting my words to make your argument. There's absolutely no chance in hell he finishes in the top five (and probably not even top 10) in receiving yards. That's not because he's not good, it's because of the offense they run. 9 receptions for 111 yards and no TD's is good. It sure as hell ain't "great" though. We both know that by the end of the year, your arch-nemesis Brandon Marshall will be far ahead of Hartline in yards and TD's, and he's already ahead of him in receptions. Does that mean I "hate" Hartline? No- it means I'm being realistic. Posting that "sooner or later teams will figure him out" is insane. He's not Calvin Johnson or Reggie Wayne- or eve Marshall. He's a solid # on any other team. Stop acting like every time a Dolphin has ONE great game he's suddenly a superstar player. Show me superstar over 16 games, and we'll talk. Hartline's numbers looked pretty pedestrian this week- good for a #2 on most teams, but certainly not great. That doesn't mean I hate him, it means I'm honest. -EK

So for Hartline we gotta wait till the end of the year to judge him and his play. But for Tannehill he is just a bust before he played any games and there was no need to wait. Love that confusing logic! Classic!

And nobody said Hartline was a superstar or compared him to Calvin Johnson, talk about putting words in someones mouth. And its pretty clear you hate him just like you hate Tannehill and hate the Fins defense. You still pine away for Brandon Marshall and can't get over that he is gone. Can't move on, sorta like Rihanna.

I was probably the biggest Hartline guy here heading into the year. I was the one would said he was Jordy Nelson without a QB.

I'm judging RT and Hartline by the same standard, you're apparently just too dense to get it, so let me spell it out for you: BOTH of their most recent play (RT's overrated college play and Hartline's past NFL play) go into my evaluation of them. For whatever reason you can't grasp the fact that RT had some massive flaws in college that he was struggling to overcome heading into the past game (I didn't see the last game, so I don't know anything beyond a stat line). How else do you evaluate a talent coming into the NFL? Do you just completely overlook what he did in college and give him a clean slate? That's ridiculous. If a player has flaws in the NCAA, they're going to be bigger flaws at the pro level. RT is no exception- his completion % was nothing to jump at in college and it sucks now. He stared down his recievers and choked away leads in college and appears to do the same now.

Insofar as Hartline, I can't look at a player who is a career 550 yards per season receiver and suddenly think because he had one great game, he needs to be "figured out" by defenses. You can't honestly believe that's the case.

Speaking of "moving on" from Marshall- YOU'RE the one who pipes up every time he drops a ball, and starts threads about him. You're like the guy who is still hung up on his ex-gf hoping she'll fail in her new relationship. I'm just trying to interject some reality into this. Hartline doesn't need to be figured out- it's insanity to think that. He's a quality WR, but there's nothing to figure out about the guy. -EK

YES!!!!!!  Because it's college and it doesn't translate at all to what will happen in the NFL. It's like saying John Elway never led Stanford to a bowl game so he will never led a team to a Super Bowl in the NFL. Because what happened in college tells us that ::). It's beyond silly.  Just like what happens in the "NFL preseason" doesn't translate into what will happen during the regular season. Because you can't try and made a connection. It's foolish.

You probably never watched 1 Texas AM game in you're life but now you are an expert on Tannehill's college performance and what he did in college will translate to the NFL. Give me a break.

I actually watched a ton of Tannehill's college stuff during the pre-draft months, which is what led me to conclude he isn't good. Your argument about Elway is a classic reductio ad absurdum. If you don't evaluate NFL talent on what they did in college, how in the world are you supposed to have any clue what they're capable of? Why was there a whole "Suck for Luck" campaign? After all, what he was doing in college was irrelavent. Why look at ANYONE in college? Why have draft boards or scouts? The scouts aren't needed, because college performance is null and void, right? Love to see you talk your way out of this. -EK

You can form an opinion of a guy based on  his college play. To say a guy is a bust and will never be any good before he even steps on the field (like you are so proud of doing) is what kills all you're credibility. You took it beyond just having an opinion. You put you're foot so far in you're mouth you made Rex Ryan blush. 

On the o-line, great story today in one of the papers how Jim Turner has helped Jon Jerry lose 35 lbs since the start of training camp. Looks like hopefully things are starting to click with Jerry like they clicked with Sean Smith.

Miami has 17 returning starters from last year. They changed coaches. West Coast offense. 4-3 defense. And have a quality QB now playing. Look how much improvement has been made so far. STILL A LONG WAYS TO GO. But essentially this is the same team as Sparano had and things look so much different and so improved.

No you can't. You just said you can't. You've insisted (numerous times), that "Because it's college and it doesn't translate at all to what will happen in the NFL." At all. So which is it? Can you form an opinion on college play or not?

And how does it kill my credibilty? If five years from now he's out of the league or riding the pine, it certainly doesn't kill anything. It means I saw it from the get go that he sucked and was a bad pick at in any round, let alone the 8th overall pick. Being a bust isn't just about how bad a guy is, it's about how bad he is if a team massively over-reaches for him.   Just because I am standing by my opinion and not wavering doesn't mean I was wrong. You keep posting stat after stat to try and validate your opinion of the guy, but you ignore the fact that he's still near the BOTTOM of the league in trunovers, completion % and QBR.

Either way, NONE of that has anything to do with your attack on me about Hartline. Try to stay focused. How is my saying Hartline is an average, but not great receiver, and certainly not one who needs to be "figured out" or get some sort of special game planning for make me hate him? It was a pretty straight forward and honest evaluation of Hartline. No one in the world believed after the 200 yard game he had that he would keep up the average he had at that point. Using "he's leading the league in receiving yards" to validate your POV based on a small sample that was massively inflated by one game is lunacy.

You can form an opinion based on college stats, but when the guy STARTS PLAYING IN THE NFL FOR REAL....what he did in college doesn't matter anymore.

I can't believe I really just had to explain that to someone  ::)

Mike, that's your opinion, and you're welcome to it, but it's not one shared universally. When a player shows no improvement from the things that plagued him in college, his coaches, media, and fans WILL start in with, "that's the same thing he did in college, and he's not improving. There's a problem here." I would think that YOU of all people would get that, since from the start of Tebow's career, you (and everyone else) were critical of the fact that he can't throw well, based on the sampling of....get ready for it....how his mechanics were at Florida.

Nice way to dodge the Hartline debate. -EK

There is no debate on Hartline. You said something foolish and you are wrong. No debate on my end. You want to rip and bash Hartline go for it. Have at it.

What part of this is foolish:

"In time? Hartline had one ridiculous game. The rest of the year, it appears teams already figured out how to stop them both. Minus the Cards game, Hartline is averaging 65 yards a game and has no TDs. Bess is at 69 a game and hasn't scored. Miami is still a run-first team. They don't need a third WR- they need a TE who can actually hang on to the ball. -EK"

Wait, wait...I can see it now....every opposing team in the league's game plan:

"Well, we can't run on Miami, that's for sure. And Bush is playing the best football of his career....wait- I've got it! If we can figure out how to stop Hartline, we're GOLD!"

Come off it. Hartline is an above average WR. Nothing more and nothing less. What's foolish is acting like he's some sort of incredible weapon that needs special attention- you know, "figuring him out." What I posted is absolute fact. His games aside from the Cards game (50, 111, 41, 59 and NO touchdowns) are nothing to be figured out. Or if they were, as I said- teams already did. -EK

I did not judge Tim Tebow (or Vince Young, for that matter) on college throwing mechanics.  That is something that can be fixed by pro coaches.

Tebow is a horrible passer in the NFL, and that is the basis on which I (and many others) have judged him.

I mean, it's not like I was out there declaring Tebow a bust after two quarters of play...

LOL, the fact he is still defending Tebow and still trashing Tannehill is totally priceless!

Um, yeah? Well maybe not a clean slate, but at least you take their college stats with a grain of salt. Who evaluates a NFL QB's play by their college play? Since when? Who does that? I mean you MIGHT use their college play to try to PREDICT their NFL play but you CERTAINLY don't use their college play to evaluate how they are playing in the NFL. THAT'S ridiculous. You're making shit up now EK.

That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Especially when one is starting. And the other one is.....what's the word? Oh, yes. Sitting.

Fact: Ryan Tannehill is at least 10 times better than Tim Tebow.

No one was defending Tebow. Just because I bring him up, doesn't mean I'm defending him.

Pappy- I'm not saying you base what he's doing NOW on the past, but I'm certainly saying if a RB has a fumbling problem in college, you don't ignore it and just hope it gets better if he starts fumbling in the pros. At some point you have to acknowledge that there are things that won't improve if they continue during NFL play. 

Since El Diablo, Pappy, Brian and Spider chimed in, I'd love to hear their opinion on two things. Personal opinion of me aside- because I get that I ruffle your feathers, but:

1. How was my assessment of Hartline foolish, wrong, or bashing him? Do any of you believe that he's in need of being "figured out" by defenses or is it more like he's a good (above average) receiver, as I pointed out, but no substantial threat given the offense Miami runs, and that defenses have, by and large, already figured out all there is to him?

2. Since MikeO LOVES to accuse me of being "not a fan" because I don't like one of Miami's players, why didn't anyone say the same of him last year when he lambasted Moore throughout his 6-3 run and Marshall in the midst of a Pro Bowl year? Wouldn't the same apply? Does that make MikeO also "not a fan"? Either a fan loves his team and supports all of the players as Mike is proposing or he doesn't. He isn't leaving much room for middle ground.

Serious question for you guys. Mike loves to set "rules" up for his standards of things, but they don't seem to apply to himself. -EK

Not even up for debate.

The statements are getting more over the top and more outrageous. So when Tannehill has good games and he can't be ripped for that we are gonna go back in the time machine those weeks and bring up college stats and rip him on what he did in Big 12 play. Like it matters anymore!

Unless or untill they show otherwise. You are really holding onto some things that you believe about RT to be true DESPITE the fact that he's shown otherwise in the pros. Granted he's only had 5 starts so he hasn't really proven anything yet, but on the OTHER hand the fact that he's ONLY HAD 5 STARTS should play into your evaluation of him. If he can play at a fairly high level with ONLY 5 starts under his belt, then I believe you have to believe he's only going to get better. You don't seem to want to admit that in fact you seem to want to INSIST that he'll never be anything despite the fact that he's already shown some success in ONLY 5 GAMES. I believe you are being unreasonable about your criticisms of him as time goes on and he continues to show improvement in a lot of areas. It's NEARLY unanimous from those that know a little about football that he's shown progress. It's time for you to at least admit that you *MIGHT* have been wrong about him. Not that you are, but it's possible. Do that and I won't have a problem with you continueing to want to see better from him.

I absolutely believe that he can be a decent #1 WR. Will he lead the lead in receiving yards this year? I doubt it. Will it ever happen? If he and Tannehill continue to have the same type of chemistry they have shown the last couple of games? I'm not so sure.

I got to tell you EK it's hard to believe that you really want to see RT do well. You seem to be so caught up in your prediction that he wouldn't amount to anything that you're completely ignoring what's happening on the field. Yes, I get that RT should NOT be crowned a savior right now and many people are making that mistake as well, but you seem to be the LAST person holding onto the fact that Tannehill wasn't ready to play in the NFL. Almost every talking head out there has seen enough to at least say he's done better than they thought he would. It's hard to imagine a Dolphins fan would be the last hold out on the guy. I'm not expecting you to annoint him a savior, but give him a freaking break already. He's been playing well. He's NOT been Tom Brady or Peyton Manning, but we shouldn't be expecting that of him right now and you seem to be dead set on waiting till he's leading the league in every category before you'll admit that he doesn't suck. Is that really fair to him?

"I absolutely believe that he can be" is not "he is now." THAT was my point. I never said he sucked or anything negative. In essence, then, you agree with me?


That didn't answer what I asked AT ALL. Why was Mike not held to the same expectations and why didn't everyone say the same thing to him you just said to me when he was crushing Moore and Marshall? -EK

I've had my disagreeements with MikeO as well, but I think we've been able to get past that and simply agree to disagree when we don't agree. Honestly I think you and MikeO need to get there as well. Then everyone can just get back to simply being a Dolphins fan and enjoying the games. We can pick up this debate on Tannehill and Hartline during the offseason when there will be a lot more to analyze.

You should probably wait until (at the very least) he is no longer leading the league in receiving yards before you point out his shortcomings.

While I disagree with MikeO's assessment of both of those players, they had both played dozens of regular-season games in the NFL when MikeO was criticizing them.  In contrast, you bashed Tannehill during the preseason, then declared your analysis proven after a whopping two quarters of play.

Listen, if you want to say that he sucks before he's drafted, and during the draft, and after the draft, and in the preseason, and in the regular season, that's fine.  I thought Gates was a questionable pick much in that way.  But for you to get on the forum and post, "See, I told you so!" after TWO FREAKING QUARTERS is just the pinnacle of absurdity.

Again- neither of you addressed my questions. Either you bash a player and that makes you not a fan or it doesn't. Either I was blasting Hartline or I wasn't. The fact that you won't address it head on and you're dancing around the questions leads me to believe that your personal distaste for me prevents you from giving an unbiased answer. -EK