The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

What a sloppy, crappy game.

The refs really sucked.  They called the game way too tight way, way early -- got everyone on both teams into foul trouble on tick-tack bullcrap.  And then, down the stretch, were totally inconsistent.  The foul on the 3 point shot at the end of overtime was an embarrassment.  Yes, their fingers did touch well after the ball was released, but it was an airball that totally didn't affect the shot.

This also came after Lebron got elbowed the head the play before.

The HEAT didn't shoot well and I'm not blaming their struggles on the refs.  In fact, I'm sure Pacers fans are just as irritating with the over-officiating.

The NBA refs just love making themselves the center of attention. They were abysmal in the Knicks/Pacers series too. While that may have been overstated by the Knicks themselves, they still were awful and changed the way the game was played. Anytime a team has twice as many fouls as the other, something went wrong.

I don't mean to complain about fouls against the HEAT or any one particular play.  It was both teams and it was on minimal stuff.  You had Lebron, Wade, and Bosh + Hibbert and West all missed time from foul trouble.  It would be one thing if these were legitimate fouls, but it was a bunch of offensive shift bullshit.  In addition to that, the refs had to turn on a dime late in the game to avoid throwing everyone out on fouls and when it mattered, they let guys beat on each other.

Just awful officiating.  It stopped the game in its tracks and made us watch a bunch of 2nd team players.

"I know the NBA wants the Heat in the Finals, but tell the referees to calm down" - Charles Barkley during Game 2

Game 3 was awful again.

Referees dictate the game on both sides.  Everyone is in foul trouble the whole time, the game moves at a snails pace, and tic-tac crap away from the ball is killing the game.  There is no flow, your stars are on the bench or fouled out in crunch time.  Joey Crawford can't help but make himself the center of the show.

Explain to me what happened last night, please.  I was watching the game in a bar with no sound, so I didn't hear the commentary...

About 30 seconds to go, Wade had the ball and did some pump fake, then dished to Battier who drained a three to pull within 1.  But somehow they called something on Wade and the shot didn't count. 

What was the call there?  I saw the replay, I didn't see anything really bad, but maybe they could call travelling?  Seemed like the call only came after he hit the three-pointer though...

What did I miss?

They called traveling on Wade.  It wasn't.  But it's just one more drop in a much larger bucket.  There were well over 50 fouls called in 48 minutes.  It just stops the game.

It varies so much from game to game and crew to crew on whether or not they're going to let teams play or not.

Yes, agreed, but that one had a direct impact on the game result.  Down by 1 with 30 seconds to go is much different than down by 4 and you lose the ball. 

Seemed like a garbage call to me, so I'm glad it really was.  There were a bunch of garbage calls in that game.  I agree with your statement, Dave.  The "foul" that LeBron "fouled out" on was kinda odd-looking to me as well.

I try not to get caught up on one particular play or one call.  Basketball is a lot like the NFL's holding on the offensive line.  You can find something to call a foul on on just about every play, if you're looking for it.  But good refs recognize fouls that give an advantage and call those only.

In games 1 and 4, they got too caught up in calling these little minor things.  At some point, you have to let the players decide the game.

Three of us watching all thought Wade travelled.

I don't see how that's possible, but it doesn't really matter.  You're allowed to take two steps in any direction when going up with the ball.  Either way, it's not one play that was the issue.

I found the replay and it is fairly tight of a call but Wade moves his feet before his dribble.

Click Here without the page distorting link. (http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A2KLqIDXX6ZREX4AYRf7w8QF;_ylu=X3oDMTBvNmJvbDNuBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDVjE0Mw--?p=dwyane+wade+travelling&vid=c5e16b06e59f737413bd8cfa159025db&l=00%3A30&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts2.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DVA.347211759937%26pid%3D15.1&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dv5kVKPwLlDk&tit=Dwyane+Wade+Stepback+Travel&c=1&sigr=11a3jnmjg&age=0&&tt=b)

^^ that happens 100 times per game, and its never called.  Every time a ball is inbounded, you'll see the guy take a step or two before the first dribble.  I've seen guys dribble out, pick up the ball, and fake a pass and dribble again, and not be called.

Here, SI breaks down the rule: http://nba.si.com/2013/05/29/dwyane-wade-travel-heat-pacers-east-finals/

But even if you're looking really hard and you find a travel in there, that's just not a call you make to end a game.  It's over-officiating and it ruins the sport.  Let the players decide.

And just like that, the officiating in game 5 was reasonable and a total non-factor.

The HEAT didn't play well early, Indiana did and the score reflected that.  Then, the HEAT started hitting shots and Lebron went off and the Pacers couldn't get points inside, so the score reflected that, as well.

That's how a basketball game should look, regardless of the outcome.

Watch game 6 and see how the officiating takes over, and then in Game 7 it won't be again.

Its because the NBA wants to stretch the series to 7 games.  More money for everyone (except the fans).  I'm getting to join the NBA conspiracy theorists.

Even if there is a conspiracy afoot, the NBA doesn't want this going 7 games.  The risk of having a Spurs/Pacers finals isn't worth it.  It'd be a ratings nightmare.

^^ Unless they are absolutely confident that the Heat can finish off the Pacers on home court.  Or they plan to provide a little assistance the other way next time.

Birdman should've been ejected for what he did to Hansbrough.  If Nazr Mohammed gets ejected for shoving Lebron last series, then the precedent has to be followed across the board. David Stern came out and said Birdman should've been ejected.  I don't doubt for a second they will be upgrading this to a flagrant 2 and he will have to sit out game 6

Edited to add:  I was right.  Just got a B/R alert that Birdman will be suspended for game 6.

Lebron had a stupid technical with 4 minutes left and his team with momentum and before that a bad flop that the broadcast team said he will receive a $10,000 fine for. Not his greatest game.

Very surprised it's going 7, but does anyone believe the Heat WON'T win by 30?

^^^ I think Miami will win game 7, but think it is going to be a whole lot closer than 30. I'll go with a 93-86 final...

Who is going to score all the other points since Wade and Bosh have sucked so bad lately.

I think you hit it right on the head with this one

Officiating didn't take over in game 6.  No excuses for the HEAT.  They played poorly.  Sure, there were some late BS calls (back to back basket interference calls that were wrong that cost the HEAT and the Lebron charge was BS.  Still, the HEAT shot poorly and lost.  The officiating was fair, overall.

If the Heat lose, all you will hear about is LeBron this and LeBron that.

I guess we have all abandoned the idea that LBJ agreed to play second-fiddle on Wade's team, because Wade is doing nothing.  How he has escaped criticism since LBJ arrived is beyond me.

Wade hasn't escaped criticism at all.  Both he and Bosh are getting railed in the media nationally, but locally, OMG -- it's all you hear about is how Wade and Bosh (And Allen) can't do anything right.

This is just comical. When Lebron doesn't post up, all you hear is that he needs to post up. When he passes to an open man, he should've taken on the double or triple team. The man can score every point. None of these other legends (Bird, Magic, Jordan) won a ring by themselves. Neither can Lebron.

The fact that Wade can come out & say that he needs more touches, says he's escaped criticism.  Unless you're Jodi Arias, you can't make a statement like that after the games he's had.

Hibbert just got slapped with a $75,000 fine for making anti gay remarks at the post game press conference

That flop call they gave to Lebron was horrible. How could you not see it was a blatant flop.

Are you talking about the ONE he actually got fined for, or the dozens that he doesn't get fined for?

At first, I thought it was a bit much. Until I realized that Kobe was fined $100k for actually calling someone a gay slur. Not just anyone. An actual ref.

What exactly did Hibbert say?  Was it "no homo".  Because I see that said all the time and it's not an anti-gay remark in most contexts.  That seems excessive.

Unless the term "homosexual" is going to become a "you can't say that" word, then how can an abbreviation of that word (homo) draw a fine?

Yeah, that definitely seems excessive.

Let me be clear: I find homophobia to be disgusting and worthy of criticism and even fines.  But simply using those words isn't necessarily homophobia.  I'm very tolerant and supportive of gays, but I'll use the words "no homo".  "Hey man, I love your tie -- no homo."  It's like saying "Don't take this compliment as hitting on you, but your tie is dope."  To me, that's not a slur.  Even the word "gay" doesn't mean homosexual in many contexts.  "I can't go to the bar...my wife is making me stay home with the kids."  "Oh man, that's so gay".  That's not a homophobic slur, either.

I think that by over-legislating and being word police with little things, that it hurts the overall message.

This reminds me of a recent Twitter incident (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/kobe-bryant-chides-fan-twitter-using-word-gay-171743228--nba.html):

- Some male fan tweets "Let's make out in bed Kobe"
- Another user retweets it and adds "You're gay"
- Kobe follows up with "Just letting you know@PacSmoove @pookeo9 that using “your gay” as a way to put someone down ain’t ok!"
- blah blah media blah

But here's the thing... a male asking to make out with another male in bed is literally a homosexual act.  That wasn't a put down, unless you consider being gay a put down.

Agreed.

Um, yes it is.  Replace "gay" with "Jewish" and it should be pretty clear.

You are using the term "gay" as a substitute for something bad, which is intrinsically anti-gay.  It's like if your buddy won't share his popcorn with you and you say, "Don't be such a fag."  You aren't actually accusing him of being homosexual, but you are using homosexuality as a substitute for a negative.

Probably along the lines of you can say Japanese but you can't say Jap, since Jap would be considered a tad bit racist.

I use terms like "Jap bike" and "Jap food" all the time, and no one has ever looked sideways for using those terms.

I just don't see anything racist in it at all... I'm not putting something down by using that term, just a one syllable time-saving replacement for "Japanese."

I disagree with this, but I understand where you are coming from.  Language changes and evolves.  Even if the word gay has formed a 2nd meaning which means "lame", it's not a knock on homosexuals.  I can call a friend a dick.  It doesn't mean that I have anything against penises.  Words change meaning over time.

Gay being a perfect example as homosexual was not the first usage of the word but has developed into it now.

It's not really any different than arguing for the practical utility of "colored" or "oriental."  At the end of the day, if polite society determines that "gay" as a synonym for "bad" is not PC, then it is what it is.

I still think that's a different thing than "no homo," though.

I agree in large part that society as a whole has to determine what's PC.  But in my estimation considering that I work with, have close friends that are, and have nuclear family that is gay, I don't think any of them would be offended if someone said "that is so gay" in relation to something non-sexuality related.

Though a different word, the word "nigga/n*****" is used differently that it once was.  I'm not saying that we should freely be calling each other "n*****", but "what up, nigga?" is not used to describe race in many contexts and isn't an offensive term to many, when used that way.

All I'm saying is that language evolves and we may very well me amidst that evolution.

I'm curious if you used this term correctly. I'd never gotten this impression by the way you speak of your family.

^ I think I'm using it correctly.  My brother is gay.

^^^ OK. The wording made me think one of your parents. Yes that is part of the nuclear family, but I just shot to a different direction when you said "nuclear family that is gay" rather than a member of you nuclear family.

I only used the word nuclear family, because I wanted to stress that this gay person was someone I'm very close to and have seen deal with gay issues....not some distant cousin that lives elsewhere.

Hooray, I was right.

This sucks.

It should be a blowout with the massive foul difference. The number of fouls had been pretty close the last 6 games, but the Heat have a two to one advantage in the 4th quarter and George is out.
Yep Stern is getting to see his Finals.

And the Heat are now banged up and tired and facing a well rested Spurs team that matches up well with them and is much more talented than the Pacers. 

^^^ The part of the "matches up well with them" that I think could spell trouble for Miami is Kawhi Leonard. He's going to be the primary defender on LeBron, and he's the type of player that could give His Kingness some problems. He's a long athletic 6'7" (wingspan 7'3"), who's got the energy of youth (21 years old) and is an excellent defensive player. San Antonio specifically traded for Leonard after the 2011 draft because they thought he could be the superior wing defender to handle the likes of LeBron and Durant. Now he's going to get his chance.

This year, Miami played San Antonio twice. LeBron missed one of the two, with a minor injury. In the other, Kawhi never played. That was the infamous game that San Antonio got fined a quarter million by the NBA for sending four of their top players home (Duncan-Parker-Ginobli-Green) in an obvious "Fuck this, we're resting everyone who matters" maneuver. Kawhi was the fifth player Pop rested.

They did face each other last season, and LeBron had a solid game against him, though I don't remember how much of that one specifically had Leonard defending LeBron. That was Kawhi's rookie season, coming off the lockout and a very brief training camp, and I can tell you one thing with certainty. Kawhi is a lot better player now than he was then. Maybe Pop had another motive for that mass-resting game...so LeBron would be over a year removed from the last time he actually faced "the real Spurs."  LeBron does have one other experience with Kawhi Leonard, though I never heard how that worked out. When LeBron was playing for the USA Olympic team, Leonard was part of the "scout team" that worked out with the USA squad in preparation for the Olympics.

That match-up is going one of two ways. Either LeBron gets the best of Leonard and cements his "Supreme Hoop Being" status, or Leonard does a good job containing LeBron, and establishes himself as an up-and-coming young defensive superstar in the league. I'd drop a dollar on the winner of that match-up being on the team that hoists the trophy.

Almost 40 free throw attempts, and 19 more points off them than the Pacers. I would say the Heat either got a hell of a lot more respect from the refs, or the Pacers forgot how to play defense suddenly.

I'm still apalled about that.  If I were Popovich, I would've sued the NBA in court for that.  Somebody's gotta stand up to that douchebag commish Stern.  I'm so glad he is stepping down. 

^ I have no problem with the Spurs getting fined for what they did.  It was an intentional middle-finger to the NBA, without even an attempt to pretend that it was anything else.  They are selling entertainment, and if the Spurs stick it to the NBA in a way that can seriously damage their brand and the integrity of the problem, Stern should step in.

The NBA, especially David Stern sucks for this decision. I think you are so upset and were so upset because it was a game against the Heat. Pops job is not to entertain. His job was to get his Spurs to win games and to try to get them into the championship. This sets a very dangerous precedent. Members outside of a team should have no bearing on who plays or does not play outside of suspensions.

Think of it this way Dave. The NFL sells entertainment. Tebow was one of the most highly discussed players last year. What if the NFL fined the Jets for not giving Tebow enough playing time? It isn't their place to do so.

You are so dead wrong on this.   If I was Popovich, I would've not only given the NBA the finger,  I would've personally done it to Stern after I handed him a copy of the lawsuit.  I make decisions that are in my team's best interests.   Who is Stern or anyone else to dictate who I play and who I rest??

I agree with this part, as Pop's sole job is to do whatever he can to give his team the best shot at winning a championship.


Not sure I buy this example though. First, 1 game in the 82-game NBA schedule is not the same as 1 game in the 16-game NFL schedule. Second, Popovich didn't bench/send home his "most entertaining" players, he sent home his "best" players. Five of his best, on a team where only 10-12 players actually play. If you were going to make the NBA to NFL comparison, it would be like if New England was playing the 49ers, and Harbaugh benched 40% of his players, including all 8 Pro Bowlers.  Again, as a 49ers fan, I might not be too happy if I had a ticket to that game, but I'd accept it if I thought the reason was that Harbaugh thought it was in the best interests of the 49ers' chances of winning a Super Bowl.

I get you Stroke. Then if we want to go there, let's use the Colts during the Manning era as an example. They made a practice of gaining their playoff position then sitting guys.

NFL teams have frequently benched their stars in week 16/17... particularly in interconference games.  That's probably not a good comparison (unless  that was your point).

I think the main problem was not that Pop didn't play his stars.  It was that they didn't even make the trip.

I hear what you're saying, but do you really think the NBA's response would have been different if he brought Duncan-Parker-Ginobli-Green to the arena, and then had them sit on the bench, healthy, in 3-piece suits? I think that would have been just as big of a "f**k you, Stern" as sending them home. Possibly bigger, as it would have allowed the network cameras to focus on those players during the nationally televised game. At least by sending them home, the cameras were forced to focus on the players actually playing in that game.

These things don't happen in a vacuum.  It's not that guys didn't play.  It's that Pop did this as punishment to the NBA for how they scheduled him and he hit them in the pocketbook as a "fuck you".  There is something called "full faith and credit" in the ticket.  There's a reasonable expectation that these players will play, except for reasons X,Y, and Z.  Injury, rest, strategy, etc. -- these have been deemed acceptable by both owners and fans.  A team being upset with the league and screwing them out of broadcast money is not one of those reasons.  Because the Spurs made no attempt to veil this as one of those other things, they wanted the NBA to know why this was happening.  And the NBA did and responded.  It's Stern's job to protect the fans.

Not sure how you came to the conclusion that this resting maneuver actually screwed the league out of broadcast revenue, because I'm pretty sure that it did no such thing. At least I couldn't find any report that NBC withheld any money owed to the league as part of the existing broadcast agreement, or fined the league and forced them to give money back, as a result of the Spurs' actions in this game. Could it have an affect on future broadcast deal negotiations? Possibly, but if it does, it would have to be so minor as to be considered inconsequential.

In a word: yes.

It was the fact that they didn't even make the trip that was the unusual part.  If they make the trip, then Stern has plausible deniability when Pop says that his players were fatigued and needed the rest.  But when they don't even get on the plane, it's not a gameday decision; you're deciding ahead of time that they won't play.

Where the hell did you get that from? The story was he was resting players. Pop had no fuck you comments. Also, how do you think they lost broadcast money? The league had games on and sold those ad spots way in advance. They didn't make those arrangements the week of the game I guarantee.

Just my opinion, but I'd give you a C-minus in "Ability to accurately see things from David Stern's perspective." ;)

(btw...I specifically prefaced that observation/kind-hearted zinger with "Just my opinion" in the earnest hope of avoiding a Spidey-caliber filibuster. Thank you for your consideration.)

Regardless of whether the players didn't come to Miami, or came and sat on the bench in their suits, I think this whole thing would have been a non-issue had San Antonio simply "notified the league of its intentions in a timely fashion." Every report I can find about the NBA's response to that situation always comes down to the league being pissed that they had no clue what was coming down the pipes.

In an alternate perfect-hindsight universe, GM Buford pens the following letter to the league office a week before the Heat-Spurs game:

"Commissioner Stern,

I just wanted to drop you a quick memo to serve as a heads-up for our team's plans. On November 29th, our team is scheduled to play the Miami Heat. In the best interests of our team, we will be resting a number of our primary players, including, but not limited to, Tim Duncan, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobli.  All three of those players listed are extremely old, and two of the three are a little nicked up from recent injuries. After the brutal schedule we've had in the past two weeks, we feel resting these players at this time would be helpful in maintaining their health for the duration of the season. We're providing notification a week ahead of the scheduled nationally-televised contest so that the league, at its discretion, could determine whether or not to use this game for their national telecast, or another of the match-ups on that day's schedule.

We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience this causes the league, but Coach Popovich, Tim Duncan and everyone involved with the Spurs organization is focused on our goal of winning a 5th championship, and we feel that our decision to rest these players at this time best serves that goal.

Sincerely,

R.C. Buford,
General Manager, San Antonio Spurs

P.S. I saw your great suntan during the press conference yesterday. In the words of Billy Crystal...You look marvelous!  (insert smiley face)

Popovich obviously cannot notify the league a week in advance that his players are going to sit on the bench fatigued; that's like scheduling a sick day.  But he can notify the league of his intentions to fly players home for extra rest.

Let me flip your question around on you:  do you think Stern would have been perfectly happy if the players showed up in warmup suits and then sat on the bench for the whole game?

1 - DNP - CD is different than flying them home before the game starts
2 - the reason the heat got all the calls yesterday is because they stopped being passive and attacked the rim at every opportunity. They weren't settling for jumpers, they attacked attacked attacked . .and the pacers fouled alot.
3 - kawai leonard will get curb-stomped by lebron in this series. I think the worst thing that can happen to the spurs happened, miami just finished beating 2 teams that are tougher, bigger and play harder than the spurs and are in rhythm.
4 - noah / boozer and hibbert / west are both both larger, more athletic, harder to defend, and more scrappy than duncan/splitter - duncan is an older crafty chris bosh at this point and splitter is an older taller udonis haslem.. we'll see how these matchups work out. The only position that they have the heat beat out decicively is at point guard, and even there the chalmers / cole 2 headed PG of the heat hasn't been playing poorly at all.

It's possible the heat loses to the spurs. crazier things have happened in the NBA. but i know 3 things for certain. Kawai Leonard isn't a scotty pippen / bruce bowen love child made in the future to stop lebron, spoelstra won't get out-coached by popovich (guaranteed) .. and wade and bosh wont' have nearly as much trouble against the spurs as they did against the pacers.

1) This is one of those times whether I wonder if you actually believe what you're typing, or just looking to keep a conversation going. For obvious reasons, planning a sick day is a completely different situation than planning a recuperative rest day when you're in the middle of a tough stretch of your schedule, know what your upcoming schedule looks like, and have full knowledge on the extent of the past injuries of the older players involved.

2) No interest in Stern's happiness, just his likelihood of fining San Antonio. I think if San Antonio had notified the league a week before, they would have had plenty of time to switch their telecast to a different game, if that was what Stern felt was in the best interest of the league. Again...my position is that it was the lack of notification, rather than the act of resting players en masse, that drew the league's ire.

On that note, I have fully exhausted my interest in debating the particulars in the madcap case of Spurs v. Stern. Deliver any closing arguments you may have and let's move along to the next case on the docket.

^ There was no other game.  It was the only game on in the NBA that night.

There was another matchup that day with two playoff teams involved, Denver vs Golden State. It was the second part of that day's doubleheader though, so useless for a reschedule filler. Still, with a week's notice (maybe even a week and a half), I imagine the league could have bounced a game back a day or forward a day. Without digging too deeply, there were 11 games the day before and 11 games the day after. Surely, "if they felt they had to," I'm certain they could have done something.

And again, if they couldn't, it doesn't matter to my position. If San Antonio had given notice, there would have been no fine. Whether it was logistically feasible to reschedule around it or not.

The NBA lost money because they were expecting huge ratings and got a ratings turd.  (Or at least that was the idea.)  That hurts their ability to demand big money for TV deals.  It wasn't a 1:1 loss, but that was the principle of the decision.

^^^ Distinctly possible...and I noted the possible loss of position for future broadcast deal negotiations in my first post on the topic. I still think it's not significant enough for Stern to go all "sky is falling" and make a huge public stink about. Especially if - wait for it - they had gotten advance notification of the Spurs' plans.

That is a turd of an argument and I can't believe anyone would take it seriously. Advertising during sports is continually going up and up. By the time there is a new negotiation no one will even remember November 29, 2012.

That's the point.  Popovich knew all of those things months in advance, could have booked the flights back to SA months in advance, and waited until the last minute to inform the league.

As Fau said, there's a world of difference between DNP-CD (regardless of which clothes you are wearing on the sideline) and putting your players on an early plane home.  Putting uninjured players on a plane home means you aren't making a gametime decision on them, and that indicates you had an extra degree of planning in the matter.

You don't seem to object to the idea that having them sit on the sidelines in warmup suits (with no change in notification timing) would not have resulted in a fine.  So do you think the line is crossed at sideline in street clothes?  If not, then you aren't really disputing my point: it's the plane ride that caused the problem.

Setting a new personal record for the most times I've expressed a single point in one day...

"It was the lack of notification that caused the problem."

[/end message]

And as I've said repeatedly, the act of holding the players out of the game with limited advance notification would have been no issue whatsoever if the players were on the sidelines in warmup suits.

Right, and I disagreed. The lack of notification was the key to the fine, regardless of whether they were in Miami, San Antonio or Bangladesh, or whether they were wearing Spurs warmup gear, three piece suits or clown costumes.

Move along, nothing new to see here...