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Title: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: CF DolFan on August 22, 2013, 06:53:10 pm I'm guessing most of you know who LZ Granderson is so I won't bother. I like his articles although many times we come at things from different perspectives. I really love this one and think he is spot on. It would be so awesome if we had many more LZs out there pushing this message as I believe it could have much more of a positive impact than worrying about SYG laws that don't effect most of society.
Quote (CNN) -- A detail in the fatal shooting of 14-year-old Shaaliver Douse by a New York Police Department officer earlier this month has been stopping me from grieving his death. The tragedy happened around 3 a.m. Why was a 14-year-old boy out that late without his mother, Shanise Farrar, who called the shooting an assassination? Or his aunt, Quwana Barcene, who said the bloody gun police say was found near his body was part of a cover up? Where was the supervising adult who should have been with a 14-year-old boy walking the streets of New York at 3 o'clock in the morning? "I'm not saying that he's the best one, but he's my angel," his grieving mother said. Her "angel" was a suspected gang member who police say was chasing and shooting at an unidentified man when they encountered him. Her "angel" was arrested last month for attempted murder of a 15-year-old. Her "angel" left their apartment around 8 p.m. and she had no idea where he was until the next morning when detectives informed her that her son was dead. I want to mourn for her loss, I really do. But as callous and as heartless as this sounds, I just can't get past what awful parents she and the boy's father were. Children may be born angels, but with all the temptations out there in the world, it takes work to try to keep them that way. I'm sure the three teenagers suspected in the death of 23-year-old Christopher Lane -- killed because they allegedly were bored -- started off as angels. But who, besides their parents, would call them angels now? "I know my son. He's a good kid," said Jennifer Luna, the mother of the boy prosecutor Jason Hicks said pulled the trigger. Australians shocked by Okla. murder Australian student shot dead in U.S. As a newspaper reporter, I covered and was around a fair number of crime scenes involving juvenile delinquents and few things bothered me more than listening to their parents. Crying, ranting, proclaiming how great their children were despite being kicked out of school or previous run-ins with the law. That's not to say kids won't be kids. Of course they will be. Which is why it is vitally important that parents be parents. So when kids get bored, they don't think they should go "f**k with some n**gers," as then-18-year-old Deryl Dedmon Jr. suggested before he and his buddies ran over and killed 49-year-old auto worker James Craig Anderson, the first black person he saw, with his pickup truck back in 2011. Or randomly shoot a college student jogging down the street as entertainment -- though it seems the shooting may not have been as random as previously thought considering one of the suspects, who is black, tweeted that he hated white people back in April. Parents are supposed to instill a sense of right and wrong in their children and then keep up the due diligence necessary to make sure they don't veer off that path. When parents don't do that, we end up with three 15-year-olds assaulting and breaking the arm of a 13-year-old on a school bus in Florida. "This is life. I am sorry what happened to the victim," Julian McKnight Sr., whose son Julian was one of the boys accused in the attack, said after a court appearance. A second appearance is scheduled later this month. "It's just the way it is. My son ain't never been no bad person, he just got mixed with bad people, that's all ... he sorry." I am not a perfect parent with all the answers. But I do know that it was the father, and not the son, who was apologizing -- and that, my friends, is our problem in a nutshell. We don't teach accountability, we don't expect accountability and I'm not even sure we even know what accountability looks like anymore. Some of us have become so addicted to pointing fingers at others for all the wrong that happens in our lives that self-assessment has become synonymous with blaming the victim. Yes, there are cultural factors that make parenting difficult. And sometimes a bad seed is just that. But none of this excuses us from taking personal responsibility where we can. I am tired of seeing "sorry" being used to cloak negligent parents. Sorry won't bring back Christopher Lane or James Craig Anderson. And they, too, were each somebody's "angel." If sorry is not good enough to protect a bartender who serves alcohol to a visibly intoxicated person who drives and kills someone, why is sorry good enough for parents who, through negligence, are culpable for the crimes their undisciplined children commit? If my son goes out and breaks the neighbor's window, I have to pay for it. Why is a window more sacred than another human life? We need to hold parents more accountable, both culturally and legally, for the actions of their children. Maybe then more parents will be more engaged in the lives of their children on the front end, rather than the back end, in front of a judge. Society has avenues for juveniles who refuse to obey their parents. But where are the safeguards for society when parents decide not to use those avenues? I'm tired of hearing how good the kids who commit heinous crimes are. Maybe we should start putting parents on the witness stand so they can tell us exactly what they did to raise such perfect children. http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/22/opinion/granderson-criminal-kids-responsibility/index.html?hpt=hp_t4 Follow us on Twitter @CNNOpinion. Join us on Facebook/CNNOpinion. Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: bsmooth on August 22, 2013, 07:27:03 pm There have always been bad parents. The difference is a 24/7 news cycle that puts everything into the spotlight and makes things look worse than they are. Plus entities on both sides glamorize stories for political gain.
Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Buddhagirl on August 23, 2013, 06:45:45 am I have never heard of LZ Granderson so there's that.
Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Landshark on August 23, 2013, 06:47:46 am Examples of bad parenting are on the Maury and Sally shows all the time when they take the kids to teen boot camps. If the parents had actually parented, it wouldn't get to that point
Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: CF DolFan on August 23, 2013, 08:27:42 am I have never heard of LZ Granderson so there's that. That's actually surprising to me. He's well educated, gay, very liberal, attractive black man who is a very popular writer. Very active in supporting GLAAD and other similar organizations. I think you would like him. Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Fau Teixeira on August 23, 2013, 09:18:19 am That's actually surprising to me. He's well educated, gay, very liberal, attractive black man who is a very popular writer. Very active in supporting GLAAD and other similar organizations. I think you would like him. i haven't heard of him either Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Phishfan on August 23, 2013, 09:51:19 am Nice article and he makes very valid points. As a bit of a flip side to this though, some children are just going to be who they are. I read an article in the Sentinel the other day about parents who are trying to get their children's behavior modified but the system is not helping at all. Most of these kids were diagnosed at some point with behavior disorders of some type and the parent s cannot afford treatments and the system does not help with long term success either. These were parents who have installed extra locks on their bedroom doors to protect themselves, have had their children arrested (intersting fact, when a juvenile is released the parents are forced to take them back or face abandonment charges of their own), and even been killed by their own child.
While parenting certainly does go a long way, at some point these kids become their own people. Hopefully the lessons they were taught early pay off but the kids in that article have been showing examples of behavior from very early stages (drawings in elementary school) and there was little to nothing that changed them as they matured. Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: masterfins on August 23, 2013, 10:26:28 am I haven't heard of Granderson either, is he related to Curtis? 8)
Anyways, I think he hits the nail on the head around the middle of the article, and that is ACCOUNTABILITY. Many don't want to be accountable for their own actions. Parents aren't accountable for their own actions, and their children pick this up by watching their parents. If kids get in trouble at school, then the parents want to blame the school, heaven for bid they think little Johnny could have done something wrong. I'm sure others on this site who are in their 40's or 50's remember growing up, and if they did even some little thing wrong in the neighborhood that their parents knew about it before they got home, and there were repercusssions. Yes there have been societal changes in the last 30 years, but I don't like placing the blame on economical factors. It doesn't cost a penny to teach your child some basic manners...please, thank you, open a door for another person, give up your seat for an elderly person (or a female), pick up a piece of litter on the sidewalk, etc.; and that goes for the rich as much as the poor. Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: CF DolFan on August 23, 2013, 02:22:43 pm Different times for sure. I was just as afraid of my neighbors beating my butt as my parents. But at the same time.... The whole neighborhood was our playground. It would have been strange to not know someone.
Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Sunstroke on August 23, 2013, 03:23:56 pm I'm a little surprised to hear so many people say that they don't know who Granderson is. The guy is all over ESPN and CNN.com pretty regularly. I usually really enjoy his editorial work, whether I agree with him on specific topics or not. Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Phishfan on August 23, 2013, 03:46:33 pm I'm a little surprised to hear so many people say that they don't know who Granderson is. The guy is all over ESPN and CNN.com pretty regularly. I usually really enjoy his editorial work, whether I agree with him on specific topics or not. I had to see a picture to realize who he was. Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Buddhagirl on August 23, 2013, 04:06:08 pm I'm a little surprised to hear so many people say that they don't know who Granderson is. The guy is all over ESPN and CNN.com pretty regularly. I usually really enjoy his editorial work, whether I agree with him on specific topics or not. LOL at me going on ESPN. . . (or CNN). Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: bsmooth on August 23, 2013, 04:23:55 pm Juan Williams just wrote an op-ed piece also about the problem with kids committing crime, and the fact both sides glamorize some stories over others for political gain. It is similar in vein to this piece.
Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: CF DolFan on August 23, 2013, 05:59:56 pm I love Juan as well although I don't think the black community is a fan in general. I don't always agree with him either but I think he cares about real issues. He gives the guys at Fox hell at times. I'm assuming you are referring to this piece?
Quote In a sharp political divide separating liberals and conservatives, the shooting death of an Australian man by three teenage boys in Oklahoma is being advertised by the right as a race crime. There are two problems with that theory. First, the boys who committed this atrocity are black, white and biracial. Second, there is no evidence that racism motivated their mindless assault. Apparently these were three bored teenagers with a gun. They wanted to prove their manhood, be initiated into a gang or just stir up life by proving how tough and crazy they can be. That is the real tragedy here. But that is not enough for some people who are intent on playing racial politics with the story. The focus on race in this story among some on the right comes from a desire to pay back left-wingers who insist the shooting of Trayvon Martin was a racist act. The same tit-for-tat racial appetite was on view earlier this month after a video emerged of three black teenage boys savagely beating a younger white boy on a school bus in Gulfport, Fla. The victim has told authorities that the three boys attacked him because they tried to sell him drugs and he reported them to teachers at his school. What is being lost here is the larger problem of criminal behavior, gun violence, random murder In that case, the young white man did exactly the right thing by reporting the criminal behavior to the school. He should not be labeled a “Narc.” And he most definitely did not deserve what happened to him. The young man should be applauded for having the courage to come forward. If more young people of all colors did what he did, our schools and communities would be much safer. But most people do not step up because they fear exactly this kind of violent reprisal from the criminals -- some black, some white, some Hispanic and some of every other color. But all criminals. But, again, there is no evidence that the attack was racially motivated. What is being lost here is the larger problem of criminal behavior, gun violence, random murder – most often among people of the same race and especially black on black. Those daily, ongoing tragedies in our nation never get the attention of the civil rights leaders or the loud voices on the right wing because those stories do not serve their political agenda. Instead, the tragedies that generate their selective anger are stories that, in the case of the right-wing, put civil rights leaders and left-wing media on the defensive. In the case of the left wing, and much of the media, the Martin shooting fits their preferred narrative of blacks as victims. It plays to charges of racial profiling, stereotyping of young black people as criminals, and reminds people of the nation’s damaging days of slavery and lynching. Yes, there is a media bias and double standard for coverage of racially-charged crimes. The liberal media did not cover the bus incident because it was black-on-white violence and therefore did not fit their outdated world view of an America still being plagued by white-on-black violence. Most racial violence in American history is white on black violence – from the abuse of slave masters, to lynching, to KKK bombs and assassination of black leaders. Today too many in the mainstream media do not report on black-on-white crime or even black-on-black crime because it disrupts the liberal narrative of African Americans as victims and whites as the historical perpetrators of racial crime. The thinking is if Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton don’t hold protests over it, it must not be a major issue or a real problem for the black community. Instead of focusing on the damage done to the nation by drug culture, family breakdown, pornographic movies, music and bad schools, some politicians among us are distracted by the race of the boys involved. In both the Oklahoma murder story and the Florida bus story the political attention is the result of lingering anger on the right over charges of white racism in the Martin killing. So, let’s be honest about the political game being played with this tragedy. It is a cynical, dangerous game of one-upping the other side by claiming those other folks are the real racists. When will the political activists on the right and left work up their righteous anger over the real heart of the problem? They should be in the streets demanding that all Americans do something about the breakdown of the family in America, especially in minority communities. More than 70 percent of black children are born out of wedlock, as are more than 50 percent of Hispanic children and 30 percent of white children. The research is clear – these students are much more likely to be at risk of dropping out of school, getting in trouble with the law and abusing drugs and alcohol. Republicans and Democrats should be in the streets about rap music and movies that celebrate ‘Thug Life’ and that brag about how many people the hero has killed, how many women he has impregnated and how much money he has piled up from his criminal life. For too long the problem has been excused and ignored by the liberal mainstream media, which desperately clings to the narrative that the biggest problem affecting minority communities in America is systemic racism and white racism. Race still divides us, but let’s not lose sight of the larger context for this case. According to a report by the U.S. Department of Education released in March 2012, blacks make up 18 percent of the country’s public schools, yet they accounted for 35 percent of students suspended at least once and 39 percent of students expelled. The Center on Juvenile and Criminal Justice reports that 58 percent of the young people in state prisons are African Americans. The Irish political philosopher Edmund Burke once said, “all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.” There is an urgent need for people of good will -- of all races -- to take back our communities from the thugs, the gangbangers, the drug dealers and the pornographers. The young man in Florida is a hero for standing in the way of drug dealing instead of being intimidated and keeping his mouth shut. I am sorry that he was attacked, but I am glad that he did not stay silent. He understands the real fight going on in our nation and it has little to do with the political fight between left and right about which group has the worse racists. Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/08/22/let-not-play-racial-politics-when-bigger-problem-is-violent-criminal-behavior/#ixzz2cpfPmOZK Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: bsmooth on August 24, 2013, 12:38:17 am I love Juan as well although I don't think the black community is a fan in general. I don't always agree with him either but I think he cares about real issues. He gives the guys at Fox hell at times. I'm assuming you are referring to this piece? Yes Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Spider-Dan on August 24, 2013, 03:25:39 pm I have a question about the "breakdown of the American family":
Are crime rates worse than they were 50 years ago? Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Landshark on August 24, 2013, 05:58:17 pm I have a question about the "breakdown of the American family": Are crime rates worse than they were 50 years ago? You should be asking that question about the divorce rates Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Spider-Dan on August 24, 2013, 06:02:59 pm Well, that too. I'm not sure if the downfall of American society is that we have stopped forcing people to stay in failed marriages.
Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Landshark on August 26, 2013, 02:39:39 pm Well, that too. I'm not sure if the downfall of American society is that we have stopped forcing people to stay in failed marriages. More like people are giving up on their marriages way too easily these days. And I don't mean for serious reasons like drugs, cheating, or domestic violence but petty stuff. My wife does things that are really irritating at times but I hold back because I love her. I'm sure I've done stuff that has irritated her as well. Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Dave Gray on August 26, 2013, 09:36:29 pm More like people are giving up on their marriages way too easily these days. Haven't you been divorced? Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Landshark on August 26, 2013, 09:38:47 pm Haven't you been divorced? Nope. Been married to my wife for over 25 years. People nowadays treat marriage like dating and run for the hills when things get tough. Apparently they forgot the vows they took at the altar. Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Buddhagirl on August 27, 2013, 06:36:14 am Nope. Been married to my wife for over 25 years. People nowadays treat marriage like dating and run for the hills when things get tough. Apparently they forgot the vows they took at the altar. This is stupid. I was raised by parents that stayed together "for the children". IT WAS AWFUL. My parents hated each other and my sister and I knew it. The constant bickering and antagonizing that went on in our house was far more traumatizing than a divorce would have been for us, so cut this bullshit out. On top of that 2 people were miserable for 20+ years "for the children". Sometimes people get married, grow the fuck up, and realize they have nothing in common or hate each other. That's not just "running for the hills" when things get tough. It's figuring out what is best for you and your family. Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Landshark on August 27, 2013, 08:10:08 am This is stupid. I was raised by parents that stayed together "for the children". IT WAS AWFUL. My parents hated each other and my sister and I knew it. The constant bickering and antagonizing that went on in our house was far more traumatizing than a divorce would have been for us, so cut this bullshit out. On top of that 2 people were miserable for 20+ years "for the children". Sometimes people get married, grow the fuck up, and realize they have nothing in common or hate each other. That's not just "running for the hills" when things get tough. It's figuring out what is best for you and your family. Have you ever been married? If not, then let me give you a piece of advice. If you fall in love with someone, you should date for at least a year, then be engaged for at least a year. That's plenty of time to find out whether or not you really love the other person or have a lot in common. Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Buddhagirl on August 27, 2013, 09:08:56 am Have you ever been married? If not, then let me give you a piece of advice. If you fall in love with someone, you should date for at least a year, then be engaged for at least a year. That's plenty of time to find out whether or not you really love the other person or have a lot in common. Never been married. Never plan on it. And your advice is bullshit. Plenty of people fall out of love even after dating for a few years. Stop being so smug. Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: CF DolFan on August 27, 2013, 09:16:51 am Sometimes people get married, grow the fuck up, and realize they have nothing in common or hate each other. That's not just "running for the hills" when things get tough. It's figuring out what is best for you and your family. That is absolutely the biggest lie out there about marriage. They have nothing in common only because they don't want it.I'm pretty sure you don't want my take but I'll give it anyway. I've been married almost 23 years ... married right out of high school. I had sex with probably 30 girls prior so it's not like I don't know what the other side is like. I have both Christian and non Christian friends with good and bad marriages. No one stays the same. If people only stayed married because they naturally "stayed" in love we wouldn't have any marriages. If we only stayed married until we lust after someone else, or found them interesting, or loved being with someone different then all people would divorce. First of all, many marriages aren't built on love to begin with. It's infatuation which quickly disappears. This is easily replaced when a new person starts paying attention. Suddenly "i don't love you any longer" and " I'm really connected with this new person in a way I've never know before". This is lust and infatuation and will dissipate as well. This is a shortened version but if a marriage is to work in the long run then both people have to commit to the marriage and not each other. Divorce is off the table. Doing it for the kids is off the table. Doing it because we can't afford anything else is off the table and any other excuse to stay married. If you are committed to the marriage then the selfish stuff should disappear in the same way if you are committed to loving God everything else should be affected by that. I've seen it in dozens of real life examples. People lose their way, hate each other, sometimes have an affair and decide divorce is the only answer. When it gets this far you have two options. Quit and move on or work to repair the marriage. I guess three because you could stay married and miserable but wheres the fun in that. If your only answer is to work to repair then there is no doubt it can be fixed. Think of marriage as a box. in the beginning it's full of love, lust, happiness and desires. After a while all of that disappears unless you continue to replace it with positives. Reconnecting or finding the same reasons you fell in love with someone is easily achieved when they are your focal point. Most people think marriage is 50/50 but if you are only putting half effort in it then you wil get half results. Marriage should be 100/100 percent. Regardless of what she does I should do what I need to do is right and vice-versa. If I'm doing it for her then I won't when I'm pissed and she won't either and so on. If I do the right thing because it's best for the marriage then it has a positive effect instead of a negative effect on that marriage box. If my focus is on making her happy instead of what else I can be doing then I will no doubt rekindle what I think I had lost. Every single person enjoys new attention from someone/something else. In fact I think people in many marriages goes through some type of an emotional affair at one point or another. If that's their focus then they will naturally pull away from their marriage. If they focus their attention on the one they fell out of love with then it's amazing how easily they remember why they were together in the first place. Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Buddhagirl on August 27, 2013, 09:48:10 am This makes no sense.
Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Phishfan on August 27, 2013, 10:13:54 am Haven't you been divorced? It is hard to keep up isn't it? Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Spider-Dan on August 27, 2013, 11:20:19 am I don't think it's any sort of great revelation to say that you can force yourself to stay with a person or that two people who are committed to doing so can maintain a marriage regardless. That being said, CF, at best you can only take credit for 50% of your successful marriage; if you were married to a woman who was not equally committed to maintaining a marriage, then there's nothing you could do to make it work.
So this kind of "all you have to do is want to make it work" stuff is kind of shortsighted. It's easy to tell people to make sure it's the right person before you get married, but people change, and even if you're willing to stick with your commitment (even if the person you married has changed dramatically, no longer has the same interests or personality, etc.) the other person may not be. That's the thing about a no-divorce culture; if it's in place, then people don't have to work at keeping a marriage together (because it's going to stay together, whether you like it or not) and if there isn't a no-divorce culture in place, no amount of effort will be sufficient unless it's coming from both spouses. Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: bsfins on August 27, 2013, 01:45:11 pm It is hard to keep up isn't it? :DI quit trying a long time ago,it's not worth it... Personally,I don't think being married,or divorced has little to do with a good parents and bad parents. Just like I don't care how long you've been married,people change,and want different things or want different things out of life.My parents were married 20+ years,Both my Sisters were married for 15+ years all divorced....My mom has been married twice,and divorced twice,despite the catholic fucking church.Why they all got married,and divorced is different...My Dad is still married to my step mom for 33 years now...As long as he's rich,she'll be there....I don't think there is the scarlet letter,stigma of being divorced as there used to be.My mom was practically exiled ...whispered about,that's the divorced lady....It's a good thing,most people are over those days. My parents were 17,and still in high school when they got married,and millionaires at 21.My Dad only loves money,My mom loves her family.My father was a miserable father when my parents were married,but that was a different time.He thought he made the money;He was being a good father...My Brother and two sisters had everything provided for them,but had an absent,never there,shut up you are supposed to be seen,and not heard child hood...Not exactly a father figure...He was about the bigger house,the nicer cars,more traveling.The family was there for show... Me,the things I wanted 10 years ago,are a lot different the the things I want now.I can safely say,10 years from now will probably be different from what I want today... Just my take on it.... Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: CF DolFan on August 27, 2013, 04:31:08 pm This makes no sense. Your love is where you put your focus. If you focus on the negatives of your spouse and the positives of something/someone else ... you will lose interest. You can make yourself like or dislike anything. I know many people who actually quit on a marriage and are now back and happier than ever in that same marriage. This gets taught to pastors because its very common for them to get so wrapped up in their ministry that they lose their family. Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Fau Teixeira on August 27, 2013, 04:32:26 pm Quote You can make yourself like or dislike anything. simply put .. no Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: CF DolFan on August 27, 2013, 04:39:57 pm I just re-read that. I didn't really mean "anything".
I meant just like in the case of you and the Mrs. If all you do is concentrate on her negatives it won't be long before you can't stand to be around her. The same goes for if you ignore her negatives and concentrate on what you like about her ... even if you aren't feeling it any longer. Sooner or later you will forget what you made such a big deal about to get upset about. Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Buddhagirl on August 27, 2013, 05:13:33 pm So basically fake it til you make it? That sounds awful.
Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Landshark on August 27, 2013, 05:26:07 pm So basically fake it til you make it? That sounds awful. If you truly love the one you're with, you won't have to fake it or faking it will come easy. Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Dave Gray on August 27, 2013, 05:26:27 pm I believe in divorce, though I never expect to get there. I think that it's all fine and good to have these rigid rules for marriage, but ultimately, you're only one half of the equation. If my wife is off banging dudes, all my loving her and understanding isn't going to make that OK. Or if I'm beating her, I don't expect her to work to rectify that. I'm all for working at it if it's what both sides want, but at some point, stick up for yourself and get out.
Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: CF DolFan on August 27, 2013, 05:37:27 pm I believe in divorce, though I never expect to get there. I think that it's all fine and good to have these rigid rules for marriage, but ultimately, you're only one half of the equation. If my wife is off banging dudes, all my loving her and understanding isn't going to make that OK. Or if I'm beating her, I don't expect her to work to rectify that. I'm all for working at it if it's what both sides want, but at some point, stick up for yourself and get out. I don't disagree with that but that's a pretty small percentage. People go into marriages with the idea they can get out if they need to. In my opinion, those people shouldn't get married. Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Landshark on August 27, 2013, 06:13:34 pm I believe in divorce, though I never expect to get there. I think that it's all fine and good to have these rigid rules for marriage, but ultimately, you're only one half of the equation. If my wife is off banging dudes, all my loving her and understanding isn't going to make that OK. Or if I'm beating her, I don't expect her to work to rectify that. I'm all for working at it if it's what both sides want, but at some point, stick up for yourself and get out. There's a difference between divorcing because of domestic violence or unfaithfulness in marriage vs divorcing because your spouse's habits are annoying or you just don't love them anymore. Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Buddhagirl on August 28, 2013, 10:11:06 am So you're ok being in a loveless marriage? I would say not being in love with someone is a pretty good reason to split.
Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Landshark on August 29, 2013, 10:21:50 am So you're ok being in a loveless marriage? I would say not being in love with someone is a pretty good reason to split. If you don't really love the person then you shouldn't get married at all. Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Sunstroke on August 29, 2013, 12:01:53 pm ^^^ Yes, because "Love" is the simplest and most easily-understood emotion. No one has ever thought they were in love, only to discover later that it was simply lust, or some psychological or emotional need. [/end sarcasm] Until humans become robots, or marriage becomes obsolete, there is a need for a divorce process. Believing otherwise seems patently ridiculous to me. Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Buddhagirl on August 29, 2013, 12:35:38 pm If you don't really love the person then you shouldn't get married at all. You sound like a 9 year old. I'm wondering if you've ever even been in a relationship. Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Landshark on August 29, 2013, 01:12:21 pm You sound like a 9 year old. I'm wondering if you've ever even been in a relationship. I've been married for over 25 years. Seeing all your male bashing posts makes me wonder the same thing about you. Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Buddhagirl on August 29, 2013, 01:21:45 pm I've been married for over 25 years. Seeing all your male bashing posts makes me wonder the same thing about you. Except that I'm a real life person and people on this very site have seen with their own eyes guys that I've gone out with. So...there's that. Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Phishfan on August 29, 2013, 02:26:48 pm :o
Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: pondwater on August 29, 2013, 08:32:08 pm Among other reasons, I am certain that divorce is one of the reasons why some kids are bad these days. Not in a "divorce is bad" or "religious" kind of way. But I think that it changes the way that a child is raised. I have noticed that the majority of single mothers raising kids get it wrong most of the time. They spoil the shit out of their kids and basically give them anything they want. There is no discipline or consequences for actions, like they are trying to be friends with their kids before being a parent. Almost like they think that their kid won't love them if they actually do what a parent should do. A parents job is to prepare a child to take care of himself in the real world.
As to the divorce discussion going on. Although I don't agree with divorce, it is a necessary evil. The following post sums up the problem with the way people think. So you're ok being in a loveless marriage? I would say not being in love with someone is a pretty good reason to split. If you don't love someone don't marry them, it's really that simple. If you say the words, "til death do us part", you are in fact making a commitment. Aside from abuse or infidelity. If you just find yourself in a "loveless" marriage you should just deal with it. You made the free will decision now deal with the consequences. As an adult, if you make a commitment you should follow through with it. If you can't do that then you might be one of the "bad kids" that this thread is about. Seeing all your male bashing posts makes me wonder the same thing about you. Ha ha, I was wondering the same thing. It's all making sense now, that cat is out of the bag. Except that I'm a real life person and people on this very site have seen with their own eyes guys that I've gone out with. So...there's that. Landshark, are you a bot? lol Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Spider-Dan on August 29, 2013, 11:31:15 pm So wait, divorce is a "necessary evil," yet "if you make a commitment you should follow through with it"? How are those both true?
I have a related question: If you do not believe people should get married unless they are willing to stay married until death, is the approved solution for people to simply live together? I mean, divorce rates cannot apply to people who aren't married... Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Buddhagirl on August 30, 2013, 07:32:22 am Quote If you don't love someone don't marry them, it's really that simple. If you say the words, "til death do us part", you are in fact making a commitment. Aside from abuse or infidelity. If you just find yourself in a "loveless" marriage you should just deal with it. You made the free will decision now deal with the consequences. As an adult, if you make a commitment you should follow through with it. If you can't do that then you might be one of the "bad kids" that this thread is about. Divorce is a necessary evil? I can't even. Are you another one of these religious nuts? You have the simple thoughts of most religious nuts. Quote Ha ha, I was wondering the same thing. It's all making sense now, that cat is out of the bag. I have a low tolerance for stupidity and since most of the stupid here tend to be men maybe that's why you feel I bash men. Some of my best friends are men and know that I would never do anything to offend them. ::) And for the record, I do believe that "Landshark" is a catfishing all y'all. Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: CF DolFan on August 30, 2013, 08:39:48 am Divorce is a necessary evil? I can't even. Are you another one of these religious nuts? You have the simple thoughts of most religious nuts. When did taking an oath (for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, until death do us part) and meaning it become a "religious nut" experience? I've been to more weddings than I can count and even my atheist friends have never included a line that says "unless I change my mind, get bored, find someone new, decide to indulge in the single life I didn't experience as as a 20 year old or to find myself". This thread is an overall example of the original point. No one takes accountability for anything. No matter the "crime" it's just good people doing something bad. It really had nothing to do with the "bad choices" leading up to it because there is nothing they could have done. Somehow it's become worse in this country to be a working functional family than it is to not be politically correct and offend people who make bad decisions. Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Buddhagirl on August 30, 2013, 08:53:21 am I mentioned nothing about an oath. I asked if he's a religious nut because of his simplistic views on things. Keep up!
Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: CF DolFan on August 30, 2013, 09:23:17 am I mentioned nothing about an oath. I asked if he's a religious nut because of his simplistic views on things. Keep up! Obviously I have no issue with keeping up. You quoted his comment about not getting married if you you don't intend on staying married and called him both simple-minded and a religious nut. This is exactly what I responded to. If I didn't know better I would tend to believe that your post is both name calling as well as inciting to another poster. But that couldn't be because it's against the rules and you wouldn't do that. Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Buddhagirl on August 30, 2013, 09:37:01 am Obviously I have no issue with keeping up. You quoted his comment about not getting married if you you don't intend on staying married and called him both simple-minded and a religious nut. This is exactly what I responded to. Mentioning the oath is not what makes me think he's a religious nut. It's the simple view that people can just force themselves to stay married and that you can just will a relationship to succeed. Name calling? Inciting to another poster? Please. Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Phishfan on August 30, 2013, 09:51:38 am And for the record, I do believe that "Landshark" is a catfishing all y'all. I would not say all of us. Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Sunstroke on August 30, 2013, 01:10:33 pm If I didn't know better I would tend to believe that your post is both name calling as well as inciting to another poster. If asking someone if they are a religious nutjob triggers your "offensive" alarms, especially in the middle of a hotly contested thread about divorce, after the alleged religious nutjob in question laughed at her and referred to her as a male-basher, then you might want to recalibrate that alarm...or just strive to be more in touch with reality. :) And for the record, I do believe that "Shandlark" is a catfishing all y'all. Gee, ya think? ;) Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Spider-Dan on August 30, 2013, 01:35:57 pm When did taking an oath (for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, until death do us part) and meaning it become a "religious nut" experience? How many lifetime oaths are even legally permitted by law in this country?The idea of a commitment that lasts for the rest of your life is kind of silly, when you think about it. A job that required a lifetime commitment would be insane (not to mention illegal). Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: pondwater on August 30, 2013, 03:41:57 pm So wait, divorce is a "necessary evil," yet "if you make a commitment you should follow through with it"? How are those both true? Pretty simple to understand. I feel that in certain circumstances divorce is warranted, hence an at fault divorce. However, for the most part,I feel that no-fault divorces are for the lazy, selfish, and people who cannot accept responsibility. I have a related question: If you do not believe people should get married unless they are willing to stay married until death, is the approved solution for people to simply live together? I mean, divorce rates cannot apply to people who aren't married... Yep, that's what I'm doing right now. I have been in a relationship for 2 years and I'm not sure that I want to marry this person. Hell, I'm not sure that I'll ever get married. If I do decide to get married, I expect it to be for life. Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: pondwater on August 30, 2013, 03:54:16 pm Divorce is a necessary evil? I can't even. Are you another one of these religious nuts? You have the simple thoughts of most religious nuts. Hate to break it to you chick, I don't do religion at all. Ain't my thing. I have a low tolerance for stupidity and since most of the stupid here tend to be men maybe that's why you feel I bash men. Some of my best friends are men and know that I would never do anything to offend them. ::) You totally have it wrong. I was agreeing with Landshark that it seems by your posts that you aren't too successful in relationships. Kind of sad actually, you'll probably be mostly alone for the majority of your life. Furthermore, I could care less who you bash, have at it. I'm secure enough with my simple thoughts to handle cold, bitter, and frigid old women. And for the record, I do believe that "Landshark" is a catfishing all y'all. I'm not sure what you are talking about. Please continue. Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Landshark on August 30, 2013, 04:03:01 pm And for the record, I do believe that "Landshark" is a catfishing all y'all. I'm not sure what you are talking about. Please continue. I have no idea what she's talking about either. Never heard the term before. Maybe it's the smell coming from between her legs. Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: pondwater on August 30, 2013, 04:08:19 pm Mentioning the oath is not what makes me think he's a religious nut. It's the simple view that people can just force themselves to stay married and that you can just will a relationship to succeed. "Force themselves to stay married"? Who forced them to get married in the first place? It was a choice. And before the choice is made the person that makes the choice should have been aware and certain that marriage is "until death do us part". Some thing in life affect other people. What if you want a divorce and your spouse doesn't? Should they have to give up their rights in a mutually agreed upon contract for your selfishness? If you buy a new car and your payment is $300.00 a month should the lender be able to jack your payments up or repo the car if you are abiding by the contract? The main problem in this country is selfish child like people who lack responsibility for their actions. As an adult, if you say that you're going to do something, whatever it is, just fucking do it. Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: pondwater on August 30, 2013, 04:15:17 pm If asking someone if they are a religious nutjob triggers your "offensive" alarms, especially in the middle of a hotly contested thread about divorce, after the alleged religious nutjob in question laughed at her and referred to her as a male-basher, then you might want to recalibrate that alarm...or just strive to be more in touch with reality. :) Gee, ya think? ;) If you are talking about me. Again, I never said anything about "male bashing". I was agreeing with Landshark, that it seems the chick in question has never been in a relationship. At least not a happy, long term, mutually loving one, and probably won't ever be, but I could be wrong. Thanks Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Phishfan on August 30, 2013, 04:19:25 pm I think the term "successful relationship" is a relative one. What I would consider a successful one someone else might not.
Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Buddhagirl on August 30, 2013, 04:22:47 pm Yes. I'm a cold, frigid, old woman. You got me.
Landshark. It's called Google. Use it. Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: pondwater on August 30, 2013, 04:25:54 pm How many lifetime oaths are even legally permitted by law in this country? If a person knows upfront that marriage is "until death do us part". Then why would someone even get married if they had any thought that they might get a divorce?The idea of a commitment that lasts for the rest of your life is kind of silly, when you think about it. A job that required a lifetime commitment would be insane (not to mention illegal). So since marriage is a lifetime commitment you think it's silly and/or pointless? Also, I would think that if you signed a legal contract that spanned your entire lifetime, I don't think that there would be anything illegal about it as long as you were sane, knew and fully understood the terms of the contract, signed willingly, and the terms of the contract were met by the other side. Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: pondwater on August 30, 2013, 04:34:17 pm I think the term "successful relationship" is a relative one. What I would consider a successful one someone else might not. You know, you're right and I'm wrong. Certain people could consider a one night stand a successful relationship. Post above edited and fixed. Thanks for pointing out my oversight Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Buddhagirl on August 30, 2013, 04:40:02 pm I also want to point out that the "til death do us part" thing is religious. Not everyone includes that in their vows.
Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Buddhagirl on August 30, 2013, 04:47:18 pm If you are talking about me. Again, I never said anything about "male bashing". I was agreeing with Landshark, that it seems the chick in question has never been in a relationship. At least not a happy, long term, mutually loving one, and probably won't ever be, but I could be wrong. Thanks But, what if that's NOT what I want in a relationship? Then what? And, as pointed out I've been in a few relationships. People on this board have seen it with their very own eyes. Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: pondwater on August 30, 2013, 04:52:48 pm Yes. I'm a cold, frigid, old woman. You got me. Admitting the problem is the first step. Good job, keep at it.I also want to point out that the "til death do us part" thing is religious. Not everyone includes that in their vows. Most people do include that. Therefore, most people that get divorced do include that. Also, I would like to point out that most no fault divorces require that both parties agree and sign to get a divorce or there is no divorce. So maybe one day you'll get married and fall out of love. Maybe your spouse doesn't sign and forces you to honor your commitment. That would be a fitting end. But, what if that's NOT what I want in a relationship? Then what? Most people want a happy and loving relationship. Now I'm curious, if you don't mind me asking. What do you want in a relationship?And, as pointed out I've been in a few relationships. People on this board have seen it with their very own eyes. Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Sunstroke on August 30, 2013, 04:55:43 pm I've seen Buddha in a relationship or two, and can say without reservation that she has no problems with being in a relationship...as long as the guy doesn't mind having a woman doing her own thinking. If a person knows upfront that marriage is "until death do us part". Then why would someone even get married if they had any thought that they might get a divorce? Your post assumes one of two incorrect premises: One, that either our opinions and emotions never change, or two, that people are naturally psychic and can accurately foresee those emotional changes. Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Buddhagirl on August 30, 2013, 04:57:58 pm Most people want a happy and loving relationship. Now I'm curious, if you don't mind me asking. What do you want in a relationship? Someone that walks the dog before leaving in the morning. Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: pondwater on September 01, 2013, 06:21:08 pm Someone that walks the dog before leaving in the morning. Wow, you have high standards. Don't you? Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Buddhagirl on September 02, 2013, 08:08:37 am Wow, you have high standards. Don't you? Whoosh! Title: Re: Where are the parents of the bad kids? Post by: Dave Gray on September 02, 2013, 07:10:49 pm This has gone way off-topic. I'm going to finish this one up...
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