|
Title: FOX Sports fires Craig James after debate remarks surface Post by: CF DolFan on September 09, 2013, 10:55:46 am I think this is kind of a funny situation because it's a bit ironic. A historically conservative organization fires a commentator for making conservative remarks in a political arena. Clearly not even remotely anything to do with calling games. He spoke his opinion based on his religion which represents his political alignment. Nothing crazy... just mainstream ideals for the largest religion in this country.
The question is ... was he discriminated based on his religion? If not, should we screen all Christian newscasters on their view of homosexuality and fire them too or just keep it "don't ask don't tell?" This isn't a debate about homosexuality. Quote Footage of a Fox Sports presenter making a homophobic comment has led to his dismissal. Craig James, a former NFL who played with the New England Patriots in the 1980s, said during a debate that gay people would 'have to answer to the lord for their actions'. He made the remarks in a debate in Texas during his failed run at the Senate in 2012. The 52-year-old former ESPN sportscaster, who was only hired by rival Fox a month ago, told the debate that being gay 'is a choice' and that people who 'choose to do that' will 'have to answer to the Lord for their actions'. The comments, which drew hearty applause from the audience, left Fox bosses with little choice but to cancel his contract 'with immediate effect'. 'Craig James will not be making any further appearances on Fox Sports Southwest's football coverage this season,' a Fox Sports spokesperson told Sports Illustrated. Another Fox spokesman told the Dallas Morning News: 'We just asked ourselves how Craig’s statements would play in our human resources department. He couldn’t say those things here.' James stepped down from his role as sports presenter on ESPN to run for the Senate as a Republican in 2012. He made the comments during a debate in April 2012 that was televised across Texas. 'People choose to be gay... I think its a choice, I do.' he said. 'Same sex marriage, if someone chooses to do that, that's done. And God's going to judge each one of us in this room for our actions. More... Going out in style: Extravagant funeral held for gay rights pioneer Jose Julio Sarria, 91, features crowns, gloves, and veils Thousands gather to form alternative scouting organisation after Boy Scouts of America voted to allow gay members 'And in that case right there, they're going to have to answer to the Lord for their actions.' As the audience applauded, he went on: 'We should not give benefits to those civil unions. They should not occur. We have to stay strong on this, this is important, man. Scroll down for video. Homophobic: The 52-year-old former ESPN sportscaster, who was only hired by rival Fox a month ago, told the debate that being gay 'is a choice' and that people who 'choose to do that' will 'have to answer to the Lord for their actions' Homophobic: The 52-year-old former ESPN sportscaster, who was only hired by rival Fox a month ago, told the debate that being gay 'is a choice' and that people who 'choose to do that' will 'have to answer to the Lord for their actions' 'I'll tell you what, we have a fiscal issue in this country... we also have a moral issue in this country.' Hiring James a month ago, FSSW executive producer Mike Anastassiou said: 'We’re excited to add Craig to the FOX Sports Southwest team. 'He’s a talented broadcaster who I’ve admired throughout his career. His knowledge of college football and the experience he brings as an analyst will be a tremendous asset to our coverage.' James is a polarising figure who was embroiled in Texas Tech University's 2009 decision to fire popular football coach Mike Leach over allegations the coach mistreated Mr James's son, a Red Raiders player, after he sustained a concussion. He was also a member of the record-setting SMU football team in the early 1980s when the program entered a series of scandals that ultimately forced the NCAA to shut it down. Former player: James carries the football on a two-yard touchdown run for the New England Patriots in a 1986 AFC Divisional Playoff Game Former player: James carries the football on a two-yard touchdown run for the New England Patriots in a 1986 AFC Divisional Playoff Game He later played for the New England patriots between 1984 and 1988. From 1979 to 1982, Mr James was a star player at SMU and was part of the record-setting 'Pony Express' backfield with Eric Dickerson. Though the Mustangs won Southwest Conference championships in 1981 and 1982, the team was also embroiled in several NCAA investigations. In 1987, the NCAA hit SMU with the so-called 'death penalty' for repeated infractions, shutting down the program for a year after finding SMU had continued to pay players after promising in 1985 it would stop. SMU also chose not to play in 1988 because the NCAA would have limited the Mustangs to only seven games, none at home. The scandal is generally considered among the worst in college sports history. The sanctions levelled by the NCAA decimated the Mustangs program and SMU remains the only school to be given the 'death penalty'. Mr James was never directly implicated in the NCAA transgressions and he has consistently denied any involvement. Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2415860/Fox-Sports-commentator-Craig-James-fired-homophobic-footage-2012-emerges.html#ixzz2ePIXJ0t0 Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook Title: Re: FOX Sports fires Craig James after debate remarks surface Post by: Phishfan on September 09, 2013, 11:14:57 am What he said aside, Fox hired him after these comments had been made and they were made in a public forum so their research should have turned this up prior to any hiring. I really do not agree with their decision in this particular instance. Had this been something that was done during his tenure, maybe I feel different.
Title: Re: FOX Sports fires Craig James after debate remarks surface Post by: Spider-Dan on September 09, 2013, 12:00:53 pm Is this the same "why are you being so intolerant of my bigotry against gays?" song from the Christian right?
It doesn't really fool anyone when you try to justify your discrimination by thumping the Bible. That well went dry in the '50s and '60s. Title: Re: FOX Sports fires Craig James after debate remarks surface Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on September 09, 2013, 12:06:01 pm What he said aside, Fox hired him after these comments had been made and they were made in a public forum so their research should have turned this up prior to any hiring. I really do not agree with their decision in this particular instance. Had this been something that was done during his tenure, maybe I feel different. If I ran the show I would not fired him for these comments, given the forum that they were made. But informed him that he was on a very short leash to stay away from politics while employed by the show. However, I disagree that the onus was on Fox to find out about the comments before hand and being they didn't they can't. Particularly if as part of the hiring process they asked him something to the affect "we have a policy of non-discrimination at Fox Sports have you ever made any public comments that could be viewed as racist, sexist, homophobic, etc.?" And he replied, "no". Title: Re: FOX Sports fires Craig James after debate remarks surface Post by: Phishfan on September 09, 2013, 12:35:17 pm However, I disagree that the onus was on Fox to find out about the comments before hand and being they didn't they can't. I'm a bit confused by the grammar here but I think you are saying Fox isn't allowed to find out? Employers do background checks on prospective employees all the time. This really doesn't even take much research as it was common knowledge he ran for office and this was widely televised by the article. Title: Re: FOX Sports fires Craig James after debate remarks surface Post by: CF DolFan on September 09, 2013, 12:48:56 pm If I ran the show I would not fired him for these comments, given the forum that they were made. But informed him that he was on a very short leash to stay away from politics while employed by the show. However, I disagree that the onus was on Fox to find out about the comments before hand and being they didn't they can't. Particularly if as part of the hiring process they asked him something to the affect "we have a policy of non-discrimination at Fox Sports have you ever made any public comments that could be viewed as racist, sexist, homophobic, etc.?" And he replied, "no Where has he discriminated anyone? Title: Re: FOX Sports fires Craig James after debate remarks surface Post by: Spider-Dan on September 09, 2013, 01:11:05 pm I'm a bit confused by the grammar here but I think you are saying Fox isn't allowed to find out? He's saying that it's perfectly OK for FOX to fire him if they find out about this after the fact.It's not like buying a car or something, where if you didn't find out that the transmission had a crudely-patched leaking problem until a year after you bought it, oh well, that's on you. If they find out tomorrow that Curt Menefee has been a member of an anti-Semitic group since '98, Menefee can't say, "Well, you guys didn't find that out before you hired me, so no backsies!" Title: Re: FOX Sports fires Craig James after debate remarks surface Post by: Sunstroke on September 09, 2013, 02:09:13 pm There are few people in the world of sports broadcasting that I dislike more than Craig James. He's a pompous douche of the first order, and he's an automatic channel-change the moment I see his face on my TV. No surprise to learn that he's a homophobic bible-thumping slimeball... Title: Re: FOX Sports fires Craig James after debate remarks surface Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on September 09, 2013, 02:31:14 pm I'm a bit confused by the grammar here but I think you are saying Fox isn't allowed to find out? Employers do background checks on prospective employees all the time. This really doesn't even take much research as it was common knowledge he ran for office and this was widely televised by the article. They most certainly are allowed to do a background check. But I don't see anything wrong with using new information if your background check yielded nothing. The following hypo is much more extreme than this case just used to illiterate the point. Let say I wanted to hire someone, I do a background check, check his job references etc, and nothing negative comes up so I hire him. A week after he starts I find out he is a neo-nazi and he spends his weekends handing out leaflets condemning the Jews for all the problems in this country and that the only reason why he applied for a job with my firm was so he can write an article about the evil working conditions that Jews subject their employees to. I also find out he was charged with several heinous felonies but the charges were dropped when the chief wittiness was murdered while waiting trial and the DA couldn't find sufficient evidence he was behind the murder. This did not pop up on my criminal background check because he wasn't ever convicted of a felony. Should I be able to fire him because of the new info that I failed to find out during the background check or be barred because I didn't find out in time? Keep in mind the employment terms are employee at will. Title: Re: FOX Sports fires Craig James after debate remarks surface Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on September 09, 2013, 02:36:36 pm Where has he discriminated anyone? Didn't say he did, but he certainly made statements that can be viewed as homophobic. Title: Re: FOX Sports fires Craig James after debate remarks surface Post by: Phishfan on September 09, 2013, 02:40:08 pm I gotcha Hoodie. I really do not think that we should look at this example and your extreme one in the same way though. Each case has its own set of circumstances and need to be evaluated as such.
Title: Re: FOX Sports fires Craig James after debate remarks surface Post by: CF DolFan on September 09, 2013, 02:47:22 pm Didn't say he did, but he certainly made statements that can be viewed as homophobic. If that's the case then every single Christian is homophobic as it's in the book that they follow. Outlaw the Bible then too are we? Maybe classify it as hate literature? It cracks me up that people pretend offense to his statements. I mean, when did not being politically correct become illegal? Christianity has not changed so where was the outcry for the last 2000 years? Maybe they weren't as enlightened and liberated back in the day huh? Title: Re: FOX Sports fires Craig James after debate remarks surface Post by: Sunstroke on September 09, 2013, 02:49:13 pm Maybe classify it as hate literature? Despite this being obviously facetious, it still represents the most rational statement I've heard from a Christian in years... Title: Re: FOX Sports fires Craig James after debate remarks surface Post by: CF DolFan on September 09, 2013, 02:53:23 pm Despite this being obviously facetious, it still represents the most rational statement I've heard from a Christian in years... What is hateful? You either choose to do or not do certain things or face eternal separation from God. No forcing. No criticizing. No bashing. It's history, instructions and prophecy. It doesn't hate or love. It does condone love but other than in regards to the actual sin, does not even condone hate. Don't be confused by the people who used it for wrong. Title: Re: FOX Sports fires Craig James after debate remarks surface Post by: Dave Gray on September 09, 2013, 02:54:16 pm If that's the case then every single Christian is homophobic as it's in the book that they follow. OK? Look, if you are a homophobe, I don't care if it's in a book you like. That doesn't make it OK.Quote Outlaw the Bible then too are we? Nobody is talking about outlawing anything. Quote It cracks me up that people pretend offense to his statements. I mean, when did not being politically correct become illegal? You seem to be mistaken about illegal vs. people not liking it. Nobody has to like you and hire you as a public figure if they don't like the things you do. It doesn't make those things are against the law. Nobody is trying to put this guy in jail, they just don't want him as a face representing their company. Quote Christianity has not changed so where was the outcry for the last 2000 years? Maybe they weren't as enlightened and liberated back in the day huh? Because new information and ways of thinking evolve, and people are expected to evolve with it. If they don't, they get left behind. People were racists and segregationists for thousands of years, too.Title: Re: FOX Sports fires Craig James after debate remarks surface Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on September 09, 2013, 02:59:13 pm If that's the case then every single Christian is homophobic Not every single Christian. Many Anglicanism, Christian Reformed Church in Europe, Latter Day Saint, Lutheranism, Metropolitan Community Church, Moravian Church, New Apostolic Church, Old Catholic Church, Presbyterianism, some Quakers, some Swedenborgianism, United Church of Canada, United Church of Christ, Uniting Church in Australia, Unity School of Christianity welcome gays. Title: Re: FOX Sports fires Craig James after debate remarks surface Post by: Fau Teixeira on September 09, 2013, 03:00:14 pm If that's the case then every single Christian is homophobic as it's in the book that they follow. Outlaw the Bible then too are we? Maybe classify it as hate literature? Now that you bring it up. Yes, a true believer of Christianity is by definition homophobic. I agree with you. Thankfully I've found that there are alot more CINOs (Christians in name only) around than actual true literal followers of the book. Which brings me to your 2nd point. We can't outlaw the bible, nor would I want to. I'd much rather that everyone that described themselves as christian would actually read the bible from cover to cover and understand exactly what they believe. I don't know if i would classify the Bible as hate literature, I know you brought that up as hyperbole. I just haven't given that angle much thought. It hinges on what the bible is, if it's a collection of allegories and stories put together hundreds of years after the fact, then it's at best a recitation of stories told word-of-mouth for generations before being penned down to paper. In that sense, then no, i wouldn't say it's hate literature, in that it does't incite hate, but a collection of stories and legends. If the bible, on the other hand is divinely inspired truth from god, and 100% unquestionable. Then i think a case could be made that a book that advocates slavery, endorses and supports rape and murder could be hate literature. Title: Re: FOX Sports fires Craig James after debate remarks surface Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on September 09, 2013, 03:06:10 pm What is hateful? About the bible? Ever read it..... Here is a passage explaining selling your daughter as a slave.... When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. Exodus 21:7-11 Here is a section telling your to kill people of other religions... "If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst." Deuteronomy 13:7-12 Here is the rule regarding how hard you can beat your slave... Slave Beating "When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property." Exodus 21:20-21 Do you want more? Title: Re: FOX Sports fires Craig James after debate remarks surface Post by: Fau Teixeira on September 09, 2013, 03:16:58 pm Judges 21:10-12:
Quote "So the assembly sent twelve thousand fighting men with instructions to go to Jabesh Gilead and put to the sword those living there, including the women and children. 'This is what you are to do,' they said. 'Kill every male and every woman who is not a virgin.' They found among the people living in Jabesh Gilead four hundred young women who had never slept with a man, and they took them to the camp at Shiloh in Canaan." This is the penalty of rape btw: Deuteronomy 22:28-29: Quote "If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives." Title: Re: FOX Sports fires Craig James after debate remarks surface Post by: Buddhagirl on September 09, 2013, 03:23:58 pm Look at you guys using all that logic!
Title: Re: FOX Sports fires Craig James after debate remarks surface Post by: Spider-Dan on September 09, 2013, 05:06:08 pm If that's the case then every single Christian is homophobic as it's in the book that they follow. Only some Christians interpret the Bible in a way to require that our government outlaw same-sex marriage. Just as only some Christians interpreted the Bible in a way to require that our government outlaw interracial marriage.There are many prohibitions in the Bible (e.g. worshipping false gods, coveting your neighbor's wife, taking the Lord's name in vain) that are not against U.S. law, and in fact are specifically protected by U.S. law. Can you be a good Christian and allow the First Amendment to exist? Why is "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" (a commandment, mind you) an acceptable casualty to the First Amendment, yet some random verse in Leviticus must be protected at all costs? Quote I mean, when did not being politically correct become illegal? As has been stated, no one is threatening to lock Craig James up, so the law is not in question.Quote Christianity has not changed so where was the outcry for the last 2000 years? Christianity has changed a great deal in the last 2000 years, sir. I'm sure you're familiar with the Middle Ages...Title: Re: FOX Sports fires Craig James after debate remarks surface Post by: pondwater on September 09, 2013, 06:08:53 pm And the media propaganda machine just keep on rolling over anyone that doesn't agree with the politically correct bullshit du jour. Fire everyone that doesn't agree with the agenda and let me know how that works out, I'll wait.
Title: Re: FOX Sports fires Craig James after debate remarks surface Post by: Landshark on September 09, 2013, 09:25:48 pm I don't agree with this firing. If he didn't make those comments while he was a Fox News employee, Fox should not hold him accountable.
Title: Re: FOX Sports fires Craig James after debate remarks surface Post by: bsmooth on September 10, 2013, 12:06:48 am I don't think it is hateful. I think his comments are ignorant and show someone who is incapable of thinking for himself outside what his religion tells him to think.
He should not have been fired. Title: Re: FOX Sports fires Craig James after debate remarks surface Post by: CF DolFan on September 10, 2013, 08:25:19 am Only some Christians interpret the Bible in a way to require that our government outlaw same-sex marriage. Just as only some Christians interpreted the Bible in a way to require that our government outlaw interracial marriage. You are purposely confusing the people say they are Christians. There are many prohibitions in the Bible (e.g. worshipping false gods, coveting your neighbor's wife, taking the Lord's name in vain) that are not against U.S. law, and in fact are specifically protected by U.S. law. Can you be a good Christian and allow the First Amendment to exist? Why is "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" (a commandment, mind you) an acceptable casualty to the First Amendment, yet some random verse in Leviticus must be protected at all costs? As has been stated, no one is threatening to lock Craig James up, so the law is not in question. Christianity has changed a great deal in the last 2000 years, sir. I'm sure you're familiar with the Middle Ages... Yawn ... you guys are so predictable. Another Christian attack on semantics instead of addressing the question. The guy was fired for his religious beliefs. Ironically his beliefs are the exact same as the majority of the company who fired him but he was in fact, fired for them. You can agree with them, or disagree with them but that what he was fired for. Title: Re: FOX Sports fires Craig James after debate remarks surface Post by: Fau Teixeira on September 10, 2013, 08:46:17 am he absolutely was NOT fired for his beliefs . .he was fired for giving his beliefs a public voice..
There is no freedom of speech when it comes to a private enterprise .. if you say something that reflects poorly on your employer they are within their rights to fire you no matter the source of that speech. That's all there is to it.. nothing more .. nothing less. had he kept his mouth shut about the topic of gay marriage he wouldn't have been fired .. Title: Re: FOX Sports fires Craig James after debate remarks surface Post by: Spider-Dan on September 10, 2013, 11:13:46 am You are purposely confusing the people say they are Christians. "All those guys who openly claimed to be Christian but did stuff I don't personally agree with? Oh, they weren't true Christians."Pretty predictable too, if I do say so myself. Quote The guy was fired for his religious beliefs. This is not a shield.If your religious belief is that women should not be allowed out of the kitchen, and you put your voice to this belief, then guess what? You are not going to be employed for any company that wants the business of American women. If you have an objectionable belief, you can't just play the "but it's part of my religion!" card and miraculously escape all criticism or consequences. Should we allow people to have multiple teenaged wives because religion? Title: Re: FOX Sports fires Craig James after debate remarks surface Post by: masterfins on September 10, 2013, 12:05:52 pm he absolutely was NOT fired for his beliefs . .he was fired for giving his beliefs a public voice.. There is no freedom of speech when it comes to a private enterprise .. if you say something that reflects poorly on your employer they are within their rights to fire you no matter the source of that speech. That's all there is to it.. nothing more .. nothing less. had he kept his mouth shut about the topic of gay marriage he wouldn't have been fired .. Unfortunately this is correct. It's the Fox news way of doing things - be a closet racist, homophobe, etc. with a wink and a nod, bring other people on to promote these topics, but stay just behind the curtain to avoid being labeled yourself. Title: Re: FOX Sports fires Craig James after debate remarks surface Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on September 10, 2013, 12:23:15 pm Unfortunately this is correct. It's the Fox news way of doing things - be a closet racist, homophobe, etc. with a wink and a nod, bring other people on to promote these topics, but stay just behind the curtain to avoid being labeled yourself. It is obviously clear that FoxNews and FoxSports have two entirely different set of standards. There is no way Fox News would have fired Craig James for this type of comment. But Fox Sports is about Sports, not giving a voice to politicizing right-wing extremest. Title: Re: FOX Sports fires Craig James after debate remarks surface Post by: Sunstroke on September 10, 2013, 01:01:09 pm I'm sure he'll find another job...maybe The 700 Club could do a sports highlights show. Title: Re: FOX Sports fires Craig James after debate remarks surface Post by: bsmooth on September 10, 2013, 11:12:57 pm You are purposely confusing the people say they are Christians. Yawn ... you guys are so predictable. Another Christian attack on semantics instead of addressing the question. The guy was fired for his religious beliefs. Ironically his beliefs are the exact same as the majority of the company who fired him but he was in fact, fired for them. You can agree with them, or disagree with them but that what he was fired for. And you are so predictable with the "war on Christians" type stuff. There are many aspects of various religions that are offensive to other people. There is no problem with you believing in what every theology you want. However when you start broadcasting your beliefs to others or onto others, there is a problem. He made these remarks while running for political office...which means he would have tried to force legislation upon homosexuals based on his beliefs, which is wrong. I personally think he is ignorant, as there is no evidence it is a choice, and more evidence that there are outside factors that cause homosexuality. But he cannot look at any other evidence because of his indoctrination and incapability of thinking outside the parameters of his chosen theology. Yet I also said he should not have been fired, as he did not say these moronic statements as a member of Fox Sports. |