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(are lambs in a herd?)

The Panda Cam has gone black. I repeat: THE PANDA CAM HAS GONE BLACK!!!!   :'(

The Panda Cam has gone black. I repeat: THE PANDA CAM HAS GONE BLACK!!!!   :'(

I saw this the other day and thought of you. You've probably seen it already but I thought it was cute.

(http://data3.whicdn.com/images/64291120/large.jpg)

(http://data3.whicdn.com/images/64291120/large.jpg)

A serious thought:

This whole shutdown is dumb and the GOP is entirely to blame.  Also, they are fighting a losing battle.  I get that you don't like Obamacare, but it passed Congress, the President, and the Supreme Court.  Get over it -- it's the law.  You can't just put the government on hold because you don't like a bill.

On the other side of the aisle, some Democrats are calling for Congress' pay to be stopped during the shutdown.  This is also a stupid publicity stunt.  Firstly, its in the Constitution that you can't do it.  But even if you could, it's a terrible idea.  That would give big power to wealthier members of Congress who don't need the paycheck.  Don't want to do it my way?  Fine, I'll just shut down the government so my opponent doesn't get paid.  It would create an uneven pressure.

A serious thought:

This whole shutdown is dumb and the GOP is entirely to blame.  Also, they are fighting a losing battle.  I get that you don't like Obamacare, but it passed Congress, the President, and the Supreme Court.  Get over it -- it's the law.  You can't just put the government on hold because you don't like a bill.

A friend of mine made a pretty good suggestion.  He said that from now on, if there is a government shutdown of any kind, all sitting members of Congress and the President should automatically be deemed ineligible for re-election.  You can't do your job, you lose it.  Plain and simple.

Your friend is stupid.

Why is that stupid? If you totally shut down the government why should any of them retain their jobs?

A friend of mine made a pretty good suggestion.  He said that from now on, if there is a government shutdown of any kind, all sitting members of Congress and the President should automatically be deemed ineligible for re-election.  You can't do your job, you lose it.  Plain and simple.

And this is why your friend can't be in Washington. They are actually making sense. How does your friend feel about term limits?

The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure ... I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America’s debt limit.

A friend of mine made a pretty good suggestion.  He said that from now on, if there is a government shutdown of any kind, all sitting members of Congress and the President should automatically be deemed ineligible for re-election.  You can't do your job, you lose it.  Plain and simple.

people are blaming republicans because they are to blame.

They aren't asking for negotiation .. they are holding the country hostage and demanding permanent changes to a law they can't change through the normal process in order to turn the federal government back on.

All the GOP needed to do to kill obamacare was to win an election .. the vast majority of voters when faced with the option. voted FOR obamacare. so now the GOP is butthurt and is trying to undermine the will of the majority by playing games with people's lives.

There is nothing to negotiate. Pass the CR. if you want to change obamacare, pass a new bill changing obamacare.
When you lose an election, you don't get to dictate terms.

good job american taliban .. good job.

because we live in a nation of laws not of half assed pseudo-anarchy

How is it "half assed pseudo anarchy" if you want to remove an official for poor job performance?

If you want to remove an elected official, they can be impeached. We have a system to do that already.  If that doesn't work then the people they represent can vote against them in the next election.

You can only impeach an official if they are guilty of a crime.

You can only impeach an official if they are guilty of a crime, not because they are doing a bad job.  As for voting against them in the next election, that's where my buddy's logic falls into, that they can't be re-elected.

So Obama gets to decide which parts of the law he wants to implement in order to fool the American people until after the midterm elections? If you're going to delay the employer mandate, why not the individual mandate also? No, the shutdown has nothing to do with obamacare, the gop, or the continuing resolution. It has everything to do with the democrats documented refusal to negotiate. Obama's shady talents are more suited to plaid suits and selling used cars. Case in point.

(http://s18.postimg.org/gxng6q9l1/1_The_King_Barack_Obama_And_His_Jester_78130_300.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/gxng6q9l1/)

Nothing but a greedy lying two faced POS. Hope and change my ass, BUCK OFAMA!

Secondly the longer it goes on the more people are realizing that less government is needed. That fits solely into the Republican ideals.

Now who's being naive Kay.

That would be you.  There's a clear difference between impeachment and recall

No, that would be you. 

Read the US Constitution.  There is no provision for recall.  Nor provision of your friends proposal, absent an amendment to the Constitution. 

That would be you.  There's a clear difference between impeachment and recall

And who says an ammendment can't take place?

So Obama gets to decide which parts of the law he wants to implement in order to fool the American people until after the midterm elections? If you're going to delay the employer mandate, why not the individual mandate also?

No, the shutdown has nothing to do with obamacare, the gop, or the continuing resolution.

why stop there .. lets put the entire congress to death by guillotine at halftime of the superbowl .. we can just pass a constitutional ammendment and it will be constitutional .. hooray !

Democrats seem to be dancing on the fact they can blame Republicans for the shutdown and were doing so weeks ahead of time instead of negotiating with them.

I don't think that's a smart move on their part. First off, if Republicans are already being blamed, and they are, they have no incentive to give in to anything until they get what they want. The damage has been done.

Secondly the longer it goes on the more people are realizing that less government is needed. That fits solely into the Republican ideals.

I'd be for that.

I have seen the prices of the premiums and they seem VERY affordable.

You're right. But the underlying fact is that no one should be forced to buy something they don't want to buy.

Especially because the law doesn't apply to Congress

Are you tommy's friend ?

I don't know about that CF. Vets are upset they cannot visit monuments, no new applications for Social Security, no new applications for passports, delays in pay to the military and FAA, etc. I think the longer this goes on the public is going to become outraged.

Michael Snyder
Economic Collapse
October 3, 2013
All of this whining and crying about a “government shutdown” is a total joke.  You see, there really is very little reason why this “government shutdown” cannot continue indefinitely because almost everything is still running.  63 percent of all federal workers are still working, and 85 percent of all government activities are still being funded during this “shutdown”.  Yes, the Obama administration has been making a big show of taking down government websites and blocking off the World War II Memorial, but overall business in Washington D.C. is being conducted pretty much as usual.

It turns out that the definition of “essential personnel” has expanded so much over the years that almost everyone is considered “essential” at this point.  In fact, this shutdown is such a non-event that even referring to it as a “partial government shutdown” would really be overstating what is actually happening.  The following are 36 facts which prove that almost everything is still running during this government shutdown…

#1 According to U.S. Senator Rand Paul, 85 percent of all government activities are actually being funded during this “government shutdown”.
#2 Approximately 1,350,000 ”essential” federal employees will continue to work during this “government shutdown”.
#3 Overall, 63 percent of the federal workforce will continue to work during this “government shutdown”.
#4 The U.S. Postal Service will continue to deliver our mail.
#5 U.S. military personnel will remain on duty and will continue to get paid.
#6 Social Security recipients will continue to get their benefits.
#7 Medicare recipients will continue to get their benefits.
#8 Medicaid recipients will continue to get their benefits.
#9 Food stamp recipients will continue to get their benefits.
#10 Those on unemployment will continue to get their benefits.
#11 Federal retirees will continue to get their pensions.
#12 The federal school lunch program has enough money to go through at least the end of this month.
#13 Public schools all over the country will continue to stay open.
#14 Almost all federal law enforcement officials will continue working.
#15 The Federal Reserve will remain “completely functional“.
#16 The Supreme Court will continue to operate normally and federal courts have enough money to keep going for at least two weeks.
#17 TSA employees will continue to molest travelers at our airports.
#18 Air traffic controllers will continue to monitor traffic at our airports.
#19 Hopelessly outmanned border patrol agents will continue to try to stem the tide of illegal immigration.
#20 Visas and passports will continue to be issued by the State Department.
#21 The Veterans Administration will continue to offer substandard medical services, and it will be able to continue processing benefit payments at least for now.
#22 The Obama administration apparently has plenty of money to spend on closing open-air memorials that are usually open to the public 24 hours a day.
#23 The Department of Defense announced the awarding of 94 new contracts worth a combined total of more than 5 billion dollars on September 30th – the day right before the “government shutdown”.
#24 The “government shutdown” has not prevented the new two billion dollar NSA spy center from opening up.
#25 Federal prisons will continue to operate normally.
#26 Amtrak trains will continue to run.
#27 The Patent and Trademark Office will be open.
#28 The Consumer Product Safety Commission will continue to issue product recalls if the products “create an immediate threat to the safety of human life“.
#29 The National Weather Service and the National Hurricane Centerwill continue to track weather patterns.
#30 If the federal government needs to respond to a natural disaster, this “shutdown” will not affect that.
#31 NASA will continue to support the Mars Rover and the two American astronauts up on the International Space Station.
#32 All city employees of the D.C. government have been deemed “essential” and will continue to go to work.
#33 Even though the Obamacare exchanges are not working properly, people will still be able to access them.
#34 The IRS will continue to collect taxes, but it will be suspending punitive audits of conservative organizations.
#35 Barack Obama will continue to get paid for the full duration of this “shutdown”.
#36 The U.S. Congress will continue to get paid for the full duration of this “shutdown”.
Of course not everything is operating normally during this government shutdown.  Government parks are closed.  The EPA and the Department of Energy have almost totally closed up shop.  But overall, most Americans are not going to notice much of a difference.
And perhaps now is a good time for the American people to evaluate whether or not they actually need a gigantic federal government that wastes enormous mountains of our money.

Please explain the following:

1) How is delaying the employer mandate but not the individual mandate "fooling the American people until after the midterm election," when individuals can vote in said election and corporations cannot?

2) If the purpose of delaying mandates is to deceive others into believing the law is good, why are the Republicans the ones insisting on delaying the individual mandate?

Ladies and gentlemen, the 2013 Republican Party.
To rational, reasonable Americans, the shutdown has EVERYTHING to do with the continuing resolution.  But conservatives see a functioning government as merely a bargaining chip, just as they do with a functioning world economy.

The House unanimously passed a bill early Sunday morning. The bill would ensure that active-duty military -- as well as some civilians and Defense contractors -- get paid even though there is a shutdown. The Senate approved the bill late Monday afternoon and President Obama signed it into law a few hours later.

I've read a few things on it from both sides but felt this kind of broke it down the best. It's not perfect but does shed some light.

The time for negotiations is over -- and the GOP lost out and the Dems got their bill.  The GOP fought it at every turn, from the ballot box, to the Supreme Court.  They lost.  The way to correct that assumed wrong is legislatively.  Besides, "give us everything we want or we shut down the government" isn't a negotiation.

The Dems don't have to negotiate.  They already got their way and this is sour grapes. 

The best part is, politically speaking, that the far right overplayed their hand.  They got their worst nightmare -- what they threatened.  Now they get blamed for the shutdown while Obamacare lives on.

Because it makes no sense to delay one without delaying both.

No one has yet given a good reason that Obama delayed the employer mandate until after the midterms, but deep down we all really know why.

Furthermore, I could be wrong, but I thought that under the U.S. Constitution, the law can only be changed by legislation passed by Congress and signed by the president.

You obviously don't know how negotiations work.

The time for negotiations is over -- and the GOP lost out and the Dems got their bill.

I would love to see you explain why and reconcile that claim with the GOP's desire to delay the individual mandate.
Then I guess it's a good thing Obama didn't change any law.

Under the Constitution, the executive branch is charged with enforcing the law.  Obama has elected not to enforce that provision (using executive discretion exercised by many Presidents before him).

Why is Obama not enforcing parts of "the law" that he and his cronies wanted?

"Can I burn down your house?"
"No"
"Just the 2nd floor?"
"No"
"Garage?"
"No"
"Let's talk about what I can burn down."
"No"
"YOU AREN'T COMPROMISING!"

If I want you to just give me $20 and you agree to just give me $10, that is not a mutual compromise.

This is going to be seen as a joke, but it's actually very accurate.

It's not compromise if only one side is giving something up.

See, this is how it works.  The Dems already HAVE the bill they want.  It's already law.  It's already been negotiated, passed, and tried in court. 

The GOP doesn't want that bill, so they're insisting that the Dems give up parts of it or delay it.  But the Dems aren't asking for anything in return, nor is the GOP giving up anything in return.  That's just not what compromise is -- it's not compromise to just make demands that someone else give up something they already have and when they don't give up PART of it, you cry foul that they're not compromising.

Other countries are actually reducing debt: New Zealand, for example, has a real budget that diminishes net debt from 26 percent of GDP to 17 percent by 2020. By comparison, America’s net debt is currently about 88 percent, and we’re debating only whether to increase it automatically or with a few ineffectual strings attached.

While the majority of people in the  real world continues like nothing has even happened. Obama and the left are still perpetuating the shut down as a nationwide disaster. Multiple reports from federal employees being instructed to " to make life as difficult for people as we can". Closing an open air, unfenced war memorial that people just walk up to and walk away from when done. Hell, it probably cost more to close it than keep it accessible to the public.

^^^ Right, left, bla bla bla. Go cry about it. Here are your leaders. Maybe you should join them as #4.

^^^ Right, left, bla bla bla. Go cry about it. Here are your leaders. Maybe you should join them as #4.


(http://s8.postimg.org/wpx9itv3l/stooges.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/wpx9itv3l/)

Who shut down the government?

http://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2013/10/04/who-shut-down-the-government-n1716292 (http://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2013/10/04/who-shut-down-the-government-n1716292)

Direct quote (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/03/us/politics/obama-administration-to-delay-health-law-requirement-until-2015.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0) from the Treasury department: “We have heard concerns about the complexity of the requirements and the need for more time to implement them effectively.”

I myself have recently been informed that my insurance is going up $2724 per year or $227 a month of money I don't have to spend. Needless to say, health insurance for my family is now unaffordable due to the AFFORDABLE CARE ACT! But then again, this was anticipated by some.

breitbart.com...yeah, there's an impartial source.

 ::)

To be fair, the original original article is from the San Jose Mercury News (hardly a bastion of conservatism), and the thrust of it is the same as the Breitbart article.

Of course, why drive traffic directly to the Lamestream Liberal Media when you can direct it to a conservative copypaste of their articles?

Let the nightmare begin for the Obama supporters. Hope every fucking one of them gets what they deserve.

http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013/10/07/SF-Bay-Obamacare-Victims-I-Was-Laughing-at-Boehner-Until-the-Mail-Came-Today (http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013/10/07/SF-Bay-Obamacare-Victims-I-Was-Laughing-at-Boehner-Until-the-Mail-Came-Today)

I myself have recently been informed that my insurance is going up $2724 per year or $227 a month of money I don't have to spend. Needless to say, health insurance for my family is now unaffordable due to the AFFORDABLE CARE ACT! But then again, this was anticipated by some.

I thought you didn't have a family and weren't married.

http://freedomoutpost.com/2013/10/obama-allow-amnesty-rally-national-mall-kicking-veterans/ (http://freedomoutpost.com/2013/10/obama-allow-amnesty-rally-national-mall-kicking-veterans/)

Unbelievable! Are the Republicans and Democrats in congress so entrenched against one another that they are willing to allow this president to systematically destroy our country, while they all stand by and do nothing? Apparently so.

Almost everyone has a family, unless of course you're Jesus Christ.

I myself have recently been informed that my insurance is going up $2724 per year or $227 a month of money I don't have to spend. Needless to say, health insurance for my family is now unaffordable due to the AFFORDABLE CARE ACT!

Yep, that's what I'm doing right now. I have been in a relationship for 2 years and I'm not sure that I want to marry this person. Hell, I'm not sure that I'll ever get married. If I do decide to get married, I expect it to be for life.

Well, in this thread: http://www.thedolphinsmakemecry.com/forums/index.php?topic=21845.45 you said:

So you're definitely not married. I guess you have kids with her? Definitely not from a previous marriage since you don't believe in divorce. So, I'm just curious whose insurance you are paying for.

Let the nightmare begin for the Obama supporters. Hope every fucking one of them gets what they deserve.

http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013/10/07/SF-Bay-Obamacare-Victims-I-Was-Laughing-at-Boehner-Until-the-Mail-Came-Today (http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013/10/07/SF-Bay-Obamacare-Victims-I-Was-Laughing-at-Boehner-Until-the-Mail-Came-Today)

I myself have recently been informed that my insurance is going up $2724 per year or $227 a month of money I don't have to spend. Needless to say, health insurance for my family is now unaffordable due to the AFFORDABLE CARE ACT! But then again, this was anticipated by some.

You inserted your personal life into this thread, not us.

The statements "Hell, I'm not sure that I'll ever get married" and "If I do decide to get married, I expect it to be for life" are very strange coming from a person that now claims he has children from a previous marriage.

It's almost like you just invented a family to pay insurance for, just so you could claim that you're being wronged by Obama... while forgetting that you had previously admitted that you weren't married.

You have a spouse die suddenly, maybe then you will understand the meaning and wording of my post.

I'm paying for myself and my 2 children through my employers insurance. And since you have to change the subject and make this thread about my personal life. My wife died in a car accident in 2008 you bunch of assholes.

well back to the topic, it appears to be ending.

shutdown is over, republicans got shut out .. they got nothing they wanted other than a huge drop in poll numbers

matt drudge already predicted they'd lose the house next year based on this shutdown.. i don't buy that .. but i wouldn't be opposed to it.

Just 89 days til the next Federal Shutdown on Jan 15th.

You are correct, the next one is due in 3 months, right on schedule just like this one. This was a manufactured crisis by the white house, just like the last one. It keeps the sheeple from focusing on the real issues.

What I don't understand is that all of the democrats that are currently fighting for these debt limit increases are on record as opposing and criticizing debt limit increases before King Barack was anointed.

Recently I heard King Barack say, "we have to pay our debts". Is he so stupid that he doesn't know that raising the debt ceiling isn't paying our debts.

Raising the debt ceiling is creating more debt and hurts this country more than it helps in the long run. We are currently bankrupt and still piling on debt.

This was a manufactured crisis by the white house,

This crisis was manufactured by the tea party rino's.

You don't understand how an opposition party works ? or was this rhetorical?

This is just dumb, Congress commits the government to expenses through the budgeting process. The budget deficits are approved and codified into law. The debt ceiling is a manufactured artificial number put in in 1917 because of world war 1  that says the united states can only borrow up to x amount.

Raising the debt ceiling isn't paying our debts .. but we can't pay our debts without raising the debt ceiling under the current budgetary law.

Raising the debt ceiling doesn't create more debt .. passing budgets with deficits raises our debt .. it's unconstitutional to not pay our debts.  Therefore the controlling instrument for the debt isn't the debt ceiling, it's the deficit budgets.

How are we bankrupt? .. what definition are you using ? and by what metrics did you determine that we're bankrupt ?

The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government can not pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that "the buck stops here." Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.

I'd love to hear you explain this away since it was Congress where this happened.

My brother has worked in government procurement for 25 years. Due to his frustrations with our broken system, we have spoken at length about requisitions, bidding, awarding contracts etc. It is a time consuming process with bean-counters and pencil-necked bureaucrats every step of the way. The simplest request takes months not days or hours.

In less than 8 hours of the shutdown, "miraculously", professionally printed 3X4 foot signs appeared all over the country in the tens of thousands saying- “this [park, facility, etc. with custom logos] closed due to government shutdown. There has not been a government shutdown in 17 years. These signs were designed, specifications were determined, signs were then requisitioned, bids were posted and vetted, government contracts were awarded. The materials were then ordered and the signs manufactured then distributed U.S. Mails or freight companies. This shutdown was orchestrated and planned well in advance at least 6-8 month ago.

Most likely, there is a paper trail a mile long leading directly to the White House, who are the overseer of all of these shut-down locations.

[re: opposition party]
No, I guess I don't. Please explain.

Fancy way of saying that we are borrowing from one pocket to pay the other pocket.

Common sense would tell an individual in the same position that if you have more money going out than coming in that the first thing you do is to cut your expenditures in order to pay your bills.

I think that too many people confuse the debt ceiling with the budget.  It doesn't matter how in debt you are, modifying the debt ceiling doesn't change that.  If we're relating it to a credit card, the debt ceiling is the equivalent of paying the bill once it arrives.

The debt is about at the critical mass level and unsustainable. Keep supporting all of this spending and crook politicians, just be prepared for the fall out when the time comes. I'm pretty sure that most here aren't.

If you don't raise the debt ceiling you could still pay your bills, you just couldn't accumulate anymore bills.

This is a purely unsupported  assertion. Unless you're now an economist and have some modeling or data behind your statement. I'm giving it the same credibility i'd give you if you told me you found a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.

According to the International Monetary Fund, Congressional Budget Office, and Greenspan-Guidotti scale we are just about at the point of no return.

According to the International Monetary Fund,

Congressional Budget Office,

and Greenspan-Guidotti scale we are just about at the point of no return.

According to the International Monetary Fund, Congressional Budget Office, and Greenspan-Guidotti scale we are just about at the point of no return. So I don't need you to give me any credibility. Between Greenspan, Guidotti, the CBO, and the IMF there are plenty of economists to give credibility to.  I will take their credibility over a extremely liberal moderator of a small sports website who is a puppet to crooked politicians and a liberal media. Like I said, it doesn't matter what you or I say, the numbers are what they are. Keep your head buried in the sand and don't prepare, I could care less. Your day will eventually come. So no, I am not an economist . Are you?

I think a sports site is the best place to discuss politics because it's no longer about beliefs and standards but about being a rep or a dem.