The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

I never liked Trek as a kid.  Slow and boring -- I just didn't understand it and I wanted it to be Star Wars.  With the Abrams reboot in 2009, I really liked the characters and went back on Netflix and watched about a season and a half of the original series.  I got the jist of it and watched the important ones.

In 2013, I wanted to try out The Next Generation, so I watched a selection of the most important episodes from the first 2 seasons (so I wouldn't be lost) and then moved on to the best stuff from season 3 and on.  I finished the remainder of the 7 seasons and enjoyed it quite a bit.   It's not all great, but there are some really thought-provoking, moving, and philosophical episodes.  But the show is pretty much all one-offs....there is no overarching storyline.  Each episode stands alone.

I have now just started Deep Space Nine.  It's much more serialized, though I'm only a few episodes in.

I assume that I will move on to Voyager and Enterprise after this, if it keeps my interest.

I have run across several secret Trekkies in my life -- people who you'd never expect to be into Star Trek.  Is anyone here?

Just the new movies.  The only thing older that I liked, a high school teacher made us watch and some how tied it into his lesson plan.  It was the original episode that featured Khan, and the Wrath if Khan movie.

I am not an extrovert-Trekkie, but I have seen every episode of the original and Next Generation, plus all of the movies. I really enjoyed the original show when I was a kid...it was one of my earliest sci-fi influences. If you had asked me when I was a teenager who the two most manly men in the world were, I would have answered "John Wayne and Captain Kirk."

My favorite character in Next Generation is, by far, Commander Data. Never has an artificial life form taught others so much about humanity. The episodes where he was featured are among my favorites of all-time.

I agree.  Data is also my favorite character in all of Trek.

I may or may not have owned a red TNG uniform. And I may follow both Wesley Crusher and Geordie Laforge on Twitter.

I've watched all the new series and a number of episldes of the original series...

TNG gets better in the latter seasons once they get a bit more mature with some of the story lines.

DS9 struggles early because the stories have to come to them. Again once they find their feet the latter seasons get pretty good and probably my favourite.

Voyager is reasonably good early... New races and tensions in the crew the only downer is that I can't really take Janeway seiously as a captain. I found the early seasons better than the later ones I won't give anything away but found it became a bit formulaic.

The star trek reboot movies are good action films but I don't rate them as star trek films.

If you follow Ensign Crusher on twitter, you're a Trekkie. ;)


I agree completely. Seasons 5-7 are the best TNG.  Temba, his arms open...


I'd be interested in hearing why you don't.

I'll admit to having watched pretty much every episode of the original series -- and that's probably my least-watched (and least-favorite) Star Trek series.

I've seen every episode of TNG, DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise, as well as Star Trek II, IV, all the TNG movies, and the two new ones.

DS9 is my favorite series by far, though TNG is also really good.  DS9 is where you get to see a little more depth in the Star Trek universe; Starfleet (and by extension, the Federation) is not as squeaky clean as it appears in the other series.  If you've seen the new Battlestar Galactica, the head writer for that show (Ronald D. Moore) took control of DS9 around season 4.  There's a lot of similar themes and complex moral issues.

One of my favorite episodes of DS9 is during the Dominion War; it is not going well for the Klingon-Federation alliance and Starfleet is hoping that the Romulans will join the "Alpha Quadrant" alliance.  Garak convinces Sisko to go through a complicated set of actions (involving several highly illegal deals) to create a fake holo-recording of a high-level Dominion meeting where the invasion of Romulus is being planned.  He manages to secretly invite an anti-Federation Romulan senator to DS9 (with the idea that if he's convinced, anyone else on Romulus should be easy).  SPOILER ALERT  The senator discovers that the recording is a fake, and on his way back to Romulus, Garak sabotages his ship to explode.  Among the wreckage of the ship is a badly damaged but barely functional holo-recording rod, and after much forensic examination and recovery, the Romulans are able to piece together part of what appears to be a Dominion plan to invade Romulus.  The Romulan Empire declares war on the Dominion and joins the alliance.

Captain Sisko is furious with Garak, but also believes that ending the war (and the thousands of lives being lost every day) justifies the means.  After explaining all of this to the viewer (the episode is told as a narrated personal log), the final scene is Sisko deleting the log entry.

It's one of my favorite sci-fi episodes ever.

DS9 is near the top of my list of old TV shows to catch up on...as is Battlestar Gallactica.

I should clarify my statement because on re-reading it came out a little wrong...don't get me wrong I like the films they're good movies but they're not really what I expect from a star Trek film (is that statement any different?!)

I think because I associate more with the TNG/DS9 era I find the new films focus too much on the swashbuckling Kirk, there's too much hand to hand fighting, lots of running around and punching people...the fact that there's a starship involved is almost superflouous to the plot other than to act as cannon fodder each film. As I said, I find it more of an action film staffed by Star Trek characters rather than a Star Trek movie. Given that they've rebooted the franchise I'd much rather have seen a film around the tensions with meeting one of the new power races (Klingons/Romulans) than the supervillan type story line. I suspect that's where we'll go next now they've set up the characters.

I think perhaps because my exposure to the original series is limited it's actually a little more true to that era than TNG/DS9.

All that said I'm concious that it's a blockbuster movie and a Picard style character solving a diplomatic negotiation in a meeting room probably wouldn't draw in the punters!

I have to admit, this is one of my favorite episodes as well.

mod edit: deleted visible spoiler from quote

I liked the original Trek enough, but even by the time I began watching, it was dated.  I hated the original Trek movie, liked Wrath of Khan, then didn't like any others until the last one (The Undiscovered Country).  TNG was must-watch TV when it was on, and I enjoyed their movies enough to go to them all (though only First Contact is rewatchable to me).  I could never get into DS9 as I felt it was too stagnant to start.  By the time all the fur started flying, I was long gone.  I casually watched Voyager (by which I mean I caught it when it crossed my dial) and really got into Enterprise until I realized I didn't like it much, despite my overall like of Scott Bakula and T'Pol's undeniable hotness.  

Also, I quite enjoyed the new movies.

I guess this makes me a bit of a Trekkie (Trekker?) though I don't read the books or otherwise follow any other canon.

I do not agree with people on the quality of the movies.

I think that they're all a lot closer in quality than people want to admit and that the two most recent "reboot" films are so far and above the others.

I seem to be on an island in that I don't really like Wrath of Khan.  I don't think it's any better than the other films.

On the movies, I just wasn't thrilled with the stories being told.  With the expanded budgets, I would hope for more.  I just largely found them uninspiring.

The first one was just boring.  Wrath of Khan is dated, but had good action and some good emotional moments.  Search for Spock was OK, but I hardly remember it and, given I don't forget stuff, I mark my lack of recollection as telling of the movie's overall quality.  Voyage home...was that the whales one?  Yeesh!  Cute but not inspired.  Final Frontier I don't think I've even seen, but judging from the synopsis and its reputation, maybe I'm not missing anything.  Undiscovered Country was maybe a little dumbed down, but I enjoyed the action (Zulu was just a bad ass in that one!).  Generations was a little boring, I thought.  First Contact, as mentioned before, I really liked.  Insurrection had potential but I don't think it was met.  Nemesis was just plain ridiculous.

I'm not getting into plot in case there's actually someone here who intends to watch these flicks but hasn't gotten around to it in 30+ years (dating back to the first one).

While I agree they are similar in quality of visual effects and maybe even vibe, I just find the stories lacking in all but a few of them.  If the movie is meant to be thoughtful, then the thoughts should not be boilerplate stuff.  If the movie is meant to be all action, then make the action fun.  I think they were very hit or miss in both cases.

I finally broke down and started watching it. I am about 6 episodes into season one now.

A few rambling thoughts on DS9 to this point:  I loves me some Quark... I'd love to loves me some Dax, symbiont and all... I knew I recognized Odo, he's the original Father Mulcahey from the movie M*A*S*H... The actor who plays Commander Sisko might be the worst actor in the history of acting. If I don't make it through the series, it will be because of the pain I experience watching him robot his way through lines, especially when he laughs or smiles...

Quark was also the principal of Sunnydale High.  Odo was also Benson's foil in, well, Benson.

I've been a fan of the whole Trek genre since the 70s.  The old Star Trek animated series was instrumental in my fandom.  Hell, I even loved the entirety of Voyager.  I got a little snobby when DS9 came on, though.  I liked much of what they were trying to do (the Tribble episode was classic).  Jeffrey Combs in your TV show is a major plus.  However, as a huge devotee of Babylon 5, I couldn't watch overt ripoffs.  It felt like much of the story was ripped straight from the B5 script that happened a year or two prior.  I'd feel more strongly about it and give examples, but it's late and I don't care enough to research.  All I remember is at the time, I thought B5 should have been suing the crap out of DS9.

And if you've never watched Babylon 5, if you can get past the first 3/4 of season 1, it's a pretty damn good show btw.  It's got high cheese factor, I admit, as it was a product of its time, but the over all story arc is superb.  Hell, Harlan Ellison was a major contributor and Neil Gaiman even wrote an episode.

Commander Sisko is a bit of a buzzkill (particularly early on).
Captain Sisko is awesome.

I'm on Season 1, Episode 18 of DS9.

Sisko is a buzzkill, for sure.  He just kinda tells people what they can't do so that the good characters can respond to their inner conflict.  You do get a little bit of his character in the middle of the season, Stroke.  Hang in there -- it gets a little bit better.  He's no Picardl; that's for sure.

I like Odo and Dax the most, I think.  But there are episodes where they do nothing, as well.  I'd like to see more of Bashir.  He's kinda funny trying to pick up women.

Bashir would really be near the top of my list of characters I'd like to see less of. He's just too much of a pretty boy doofus.  I'm with ya on Odo though...love that character. I'm looking forward to seeing more of his back story revealed. Even though it was a small insignificant scene, one of my favorite moments early on in season one was when Quark was talking to Odo about how everybody wants something, and that surely there was something that Odo wanted. Quark keeps prying, listing different things and Odo keeps shooting them down, and then Quark says "A gold-plated bucket to sleep in," to which Odo paused momentarily before saying "nah." That brief hesitation spoke volumes. I'll actually say that the ongoing relationship between Odo and Quark, constable and con man, is one of my favorite parts of the show.

I agree with everything you said.  Bashir is blank at the point you are, but starts to get his moments in the next few episodes.  There is an episode where he imagines a version of Dax that's all in to him and he plays off of it pretty well.

I can see great things in the future for Odo and Quark.

Jeff, try to make it to season 4 in DS9, it will be well worth it :-)

Lots of character development finally.  You'll even grow to like Bashir.

It's enough like TNG that I'm sure I'll keep watching it. Mec has me interested in checking out Babylon 5 as well, as it seems we have some similar tastes in TV shows.

Sisko's role as the Emissary of the Prophets becomes more significant as the series goes on (and he is ultimately defined by it).  It isn't until season 4 that he begins to understand and accept it.

Bashir also has a major character background revelation (around the middle of the series' run) and it has a definite impact on his place in the show.  Suffice it to say that there is a particular element of Star Trek that is missing from early DS9, and he slides into that role.

To be perfectly blunt, after you've watched a few episodes of season 1 and gotten a basic feel for who the characters are, you can skip to season 2 episode 20 ("The Maquis") and skip a bunch of ultimately irrelevant stuff.  Unlike other Star Treks, DS9 is very serialized and many of the episodes build upon events in previous episodes (I'm not talking about 2- or 3-parters).

Yeah, I watched that one today..."If Wishes Were Horses." Definitely an interesting episode, with the Gamma quadrant species being intrigued by humanity's imagination. They could have made the baseball player look a little more like an athlete though, rather than a pudgy Asian accountant...just sayin'.


The episode where he's stuck in the elevator with the amorous Lwaxana Troi (good to see her ported over from TNG) was outstanding. Definitely showed a different side to Odo and gave him a little depth, imo...


If I skipped ahead, I'd just end up coming back to watch the episodes I missed later on. I'm definitely enjoying DS9 immensely so far, so thanks for the nudge in this show's direction.

Stroke,

Not sure if you marathoned more DS9 over the weekend, but by last count, we were at about the same place.

Now, I'm about 5 episodes into Season 2.

There was just a 3 episode arc about "The Cirlce", a terrorist group that is trying to get Starfleet away from Bajor.  I enjoyed that a lot...my favorite episodes so far.  So, I can see how the ongoing stories may start to work.  I'm also liking the characters more and more, which is good.

I do have one issue with Quark.  I like his character a lot, but it's a stretch to believe that he'd have as much access as he does on the station.  Or that he wouldn't just be charged with mutiny.  In a recent episode, he risks the lives of the entire crew for some money.  I just can't imagine a Starfleet captain putting any trust in someone like that.

Quark can't be charged with "mutiny"; he's not a member of Starfleet.

He's a Ferengi and the station is under Bajoran (not Federation) law.  He could be charged with a crime, but he's smart enough not to get caught (or, Odo chooses not to arrest him, provided he stays within certain boundaries).

I think Sisko has generally regarded Quark logically: like most Ferengi, Quark can be trusted to do that which is most profitable.  So Sisko makes sure that he sets up the proper motivation before he gets Quark involved.

In the episode I just saw, Quark secretly undid some kind of protection and let a group sneak on to the station.  Then, the group took the entire group hostage and attempted murder on Dax.  That's pretty serious.  Regardless of who is in charge, if you did that, you wouldn't be invited back.

I marathoned pretty hard this weekend... ;)  I just finished the two-parter, "The Maquis," episodes 2-20 and 2-21. I did skip two episodes, "Blood Oath" and "Paradise," as I realized a couple of minutes into each that I had seen them before.

I agree with you on "The Circle"...those were my favorite episodes to this point, with the two-part "The Maquis" being right behind them. I also had the same thoughts on Quark when he tried selling out Dax for profit. That was the only time so far in this show that I wanted to see that Ferengi weasel eat a phaser blast.

You coming around on Bashir yet?  I am starting to like his character more and more.  He seems like a real doctor, too.  Cocky, but always interested in helping anyone -- really sticking to that oath, no matter what.

A little bit on Bashir, though I still find him to  be a wee bit on the shallow side.

The character I am really beginning to like is the Cardassian "tailor/spy" Garak. I am certain there is much more to that guy than he is letting on, and I get the feeling that when the Federation needs it most, he'll turn out to be one of the good guys.

There's 2 reasons for this.

First of all, this is because you have watched them all recently not when they were released. You would have a COMPLETELY different perspective if you watched them when they came out, like I did. Pick any movie from 30 years ago that anyone says is among the best movies of all time that you haven't seen and go watch it and then tell me you agree that's it's one of the best movies of all time. It's hard. So much has changed. Not just movies, but people themselves have changed so much. How we look at movies. What they represent to us. Movies have a lot to do with how we think about ourselves at the time and things that are going on around us. It's not fair to compare a movie made today with a movie made in the 80's that you're just now seeing for the first time. I really like the new movies but to think they are far and away better then the movies of the 80's is just plain nonsense. Movies today are different then they were in the 80's, but so are we. You can't simply erase what has happened in the last 30 years and pretend it hasn't changed the way we look at things. Even when I go back and watch a movie from the 80's today it's nothing like when I first saw it 30 years ago. I'm not the same. Movies aren't the same. Nothing is the same. You can't judge it the same way. Much of the most recent movies are homage to Star Trek, so how can they be better then the ones they are homage to in the first place? How does that work? The homage only works because of the original.

But there's also something else going on here with this particular movie. It's not that Star Trek II was SO terrific, it's that it was SO STAR TREK. Did you watch the first movie? It was NOT Star Trek. I'm not really sure what they were trying to do with the movie, but it failed horribly and THEN they went and made Star Trek II and EVERYONE said, THIS IS STAR TREK! It was light years better then the first one and that's a big reason why everyone thinks it was so great, because compared to the first one it was. After that they pretty much stuck to what Star Trek is.

Have to admit that I am enjoying DS9 just as much as I enjoyed TNG, if not more. I also am pretty proud of myself for for correctly guessing the first time they mentioned "The Founders" of The Dominion that they would be a certain species.

I've skipped 5-6 episodes so far...apparently most of the DS9 I'd seen random episodes for in the past were all from seasons 2-3.

Also, due to some of the recent romantic interludes with Major Kira and Vedek Bariel, I have developed a whole new appreciation for the hotness of Bajoran women. She isn't quite Dax-hot yet, but she's pretty close. I would definitely pay top latinum for a holo-suite program with me, Dax and Kira. I wonder if Quark could hook me up with that...

DS9 used to be followed on BBC2 by quantum leap, Dax is pretty hot so you can imagine my delight when the first scene of a quantum leap episode had her walking down a beach wearing very little!

^^^ That inspired a quick google image search... Here are a few yummy pictures I found of Terry Farrell:


(http://fcbahistory.pbworks.com/w/file/fetch/4630380/Terry%20Farrell%2003.jpg) (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_9Sqb6Vhazxg/SiC49CqVrCI/AAAAAAAAGhk/UBcgz-dsYoY/s400/teri%2Bhatcher_bikini1.jpg)(http://i.imgur.com/nXSJyV0.png)
(http://lucath.tripod.com/newdax.jpg)(http://www.astronomytrek.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/farell.jpg)
(http://us.cdn283.fansshare.com/photos/terryfarrell/terry-farrell-feet-becker-460547197.jpg)

Pick up lines for Trill:
Hey Dax, you got a worm inside you?
You want one?

IRL, Nana Visitor (Kira) has a child from Alexander Siddig (Bashir).  Her pregnancy is part of the storyline, actually.

Best.Line.Ever.


Eh...she could do better.

I just finished watching the episode yesterday about the chicken buzzard-looking alien guy who wanted the holo-program about Kira, and the end scene where they have Kira's body in a nightgown with Quark's head is literally giving me nightmares.

Stroke, I don't remember whether you watched all of TNG or not...

Do you plan on continuing on to Voyager and Enterprise?  And did you see the Abrams movies?

Yeah, I've seen all of the TNG and original Trek episodes. My earliest childhood TV memories are the original series when it first aired in the late 60's. TNG has been my favorite non-movie chapter in the Star Trek world though. I didn't want to be swayed from the original, but Data, Picard, Guinan and Q won me over.


I've seen all of the movies, and think the recent Abrams movies are the best. I'm all for the realism, and film technology has advanced so far that modern movies will almost always be better than the earlier renditions. The original movies had good, thought-provoking story lines and character familiarity, but they were limited by what they had to work with.

I tried watching Voyager, I really did, but after 3-4 episodes of Captain Janeway, I was too embarrassed to maintain my Trek vigilance. I openly wept for the franchise, and my movie-watching soul felt like it had been vigorously - and repeatedly - kicked in the nuts. When Enterprise came on, right after Voyager was, quite mercifully, euthanized, I just wasn't up for following another Star Trek series. I have a hard time of thinking of Scott Bakula as anyone but Sam Beckett from Quantum Leap anyway.

I am definitely enjoying my DS9 catch-up though, and really hope we get more Trek movies soon. Well-written/produced Trek is always prime entertainment.

All of this DS-9 conversation has me re-thinking whether to go back and watch the series.

Funny, I remember the baseball player episode and, even then, I thought "really, that guy's the home run king?"  Now, post-steroid era, it looks even more ridiculous.

^ They did say that he played in an era where baseball was no longer popular and the world series only had 200 spectators or something.

^^^ 300, to which Sisko replied "three hundred and one."

Still...the guy looked like a pudgy accountant. Even if baseball got that unpopular, the average Joe off the street with a normal physique could probably hit more HRs than that dude. ;)

I admit, that's the first thing I thought.  I actually liked that the guy was Asian because especially when that show came out, there was a big push with Japanese baseball.  But he was awfully fat.  I mean...they couldn't cast better than that?

Was he as fat as this guy?

(http://www.stevesteinberg.net/photos/personalities_BabeRuth.jpg)

Pudgier and less "big ol' hoss" looking...

So, I marathoned a lot this weekend, skipping nothing.  My next episode is the Marquis.  Stroke, I can't believe you got so far ahead of me.  Are you watching 6 episodes a day or something?

Two Saturdays ago, I actually watched 10 episodes during my marathon... Most nights, after I am done working, I'll watch at least 2-3 episodes. I take an hour lunch each day, and have gotten into the habit of eating my lunch while watching a DS9 episode. They are only 42 minutes once the commercials are stripped, so it fits into my lunch schedule just fine. ;D

I have skipped at least 7-8 episodes so far though, just because I started watching them and realized I had seen those episodes before.

It started getting crazy interesting at the point you're at now (The Maquis), and season 3 was just flat out awesome all the way through. I am at season 4, episode 3 right now.

I just saw The Maquis part 1 and 2 and I thought it was great.  I didn't get fooled by the "twist" in terms of who was involved, but the morality of the whole thing is pretty fascinating.  I also like that they're starting to include Vulcans...I really am liking Quark.  It's really coming together.

Even Sisko is getting to have a place.

^^^ Have to admit that something Spidey said is turning out to be 100% accurate...I am liking Captain Sisko much more than Commander Sisko.

Woke up this morning around 4 AM...couldn't get back to sleep. Ended up watching two more episodes before my morning alarm clock went off.


There are a few really awesome Quark-featured episodes in seasons 3-4... I really like how they've developing his character without compromising his profit-mongering Ferengi roots.

For you Star Trek nerds:

http://io9.com/the-most-impressive-costumes-from-star-trek-tngs-firs-1507531721/@dodai

Halfway through season 5 now, and I have forced myself to impose a 2-episode limit per day, otherwise I would just watch DS9 all freakin' day. ;D

One area that DS9 smokes TNG...the believability and the depth of the female characters. After Jadzeera Dax, Major Kira, even Lita the Dabo girl, the TNG femme fatales of Deanna Troi and Dr Beverly Crusher seem bland and two dimensional.

Also...I have come to appreciate the silent cameos of Morn, and find myself hoping that the writers will give him at least one line at some point in the show.

Sunstroke, I feel almost silly saying this, but DS9 just gets better, going forward from where you are now.

I have no doubt about it, as the intensity of the show has been picking up steam for the last season or so.

- SPOILER ALERT - (Dave, don't read) Now that the Dominion and the Kardashians (Freudian slip) have banded together against the Federation and the Klingons, I suspect that full-scale war is just around the corner.

I am also Soooooo glad that Odo got his shapeshifting mojo back. He also just got laid, which I was glad to see happen.

[/end spoiler]

That episode is titled "In the Pale Moonlight," and sign me up with both of you...that was one of the most incredible sci-fi episodes I've ever seen from any franchise, and ranks right at or near the top of the greatest Star Trek stories ever.

Holy shit...

Season six has had more than its share of insanely good episodes. The one immediately before Pale Moonlight, where Dr. Bashir is accused of being a Dominion spy by "Section 31" was also pretty awesome, and one of the early season 6 episodes, the one with Sisko having the vision of himself as an early 20th Century science fiction writer, was fairly damned impressive as well.

Feeling so much like a crack junkie right now... "I'll go back to work, I swear, I will. Just let me hit that pipe one...more...time."

OK, now that I have finished the final season of DS9, I can say, without reservation, that I enjoyed it even more than Next Generation. The last two seasons of DS9 were absolutely incredible, and I found myself wishing that the war with the Dominion could go on for at least another full season.

Random shots:

Yes, I now understand why you said that Dr. Bashir would grow on me. Once his "condition" came out, the writers really put some juice in his part of the Grand Design.

I feel sad for Quark, as he never truly got any of the love interests he wanted.

Morn never spoke on camera, but evidence that he did actually speak was presented when Odo claimed that Morn ran through the promenade screaming "We're doomed!" Odo's report aside, Morn now officially gets my award for favorite non-speaking character of all time.

Hotter Dax... Jadzeera or Ezri?

I still feel like they could have expanded the Prophets back story a little bit. The whole series came and went without ever really learning that much about them.

The running gag with Morn is that he is a blabbermouth who will talk your ear off (even though he never speaks on camera).  There are several references made in the vein of, "I tried to leave, but Morn just wouldn't shut up."

Ezri looks like a little boy to me.  Comparing her to Jadzia (a womanly woman) would be like comparing Kes to Seven of Nine.

I'm not sure how I feel about the deterministic nature of the Prophets; since they are outside of linear time, from their perspective, everything that happens in the show is somewhat-predetermined.

DS9 is certainly my favorite show, but I'll wait for Dave to finish before I go into too much detail.

ezri > jadzeera hands down

So many beholders, so many eyes, so much beauty... I thought they were both proper residents of Yummyville, for entirely different reasons. Jadzia (not sure where I got the other spelling) was long and elegant, while Ezri was elfish and ultimately perky. Both enjoyed having a good-sized worm inside of them. Neither would get booted from my bunk for cold feet or cracker crumbs.

btw... I had to look up the "Kes" reference, having avoided the Voyager series on general principle. On the Star Trek Women Rating Scale, she's near the bottom. I'll stop short of calling her "butt-ugly," but that's the term that keeps coming to mind. I never watched much of Seven of Nine either, but she graced so many posters and other Trekkie memes that I at least knew her. I honestly never thought she was that great either, though I'd put her well above Kes.

I was going to say "like comparing Kira to Leeta," but I think that's unfair.  Kira, while also kind of boyish, has a certain fire to her.  She's the kind of woman who would definitely stab you, but would also stab someone else for you... which gives off the whole "demon in the sack" vibe.  I'd put Kira miles ahead of Ezri.

And Leeta pretty much destroys every other Star Trek female ever (for me), so Kira vs. Leeta and Jadzia vs. Leeta isn't much different.

I just watched the episode Trials and Tribbleations, where they go back and mingle with the original series.  It may have been the most enjoyable episode of Star Trek, any series, that I've ever seen.  Wow -- what nostalgia.

Stroke, did you finish DS9?  If so, any plans to move on to Voyager or Enterprise?

Yessir, about a month and a half ago...


No real interest in Enterprise or Voyager. I am watching so many different shows right now that I don't see either of the Star Trek bottom-feeders making it on to my watch list.

How far along in DS9 are you at this point?

I'm almost halfway through season 5.  Current stuff:

- Klingons acting a fool, but discovered that a changeling is in their ranks, pulling the strings
- Sisko's lady-friend is out of prison
- Nog is back on the station and living with Jake
- Odo is now human
- Worf and Dax are dating, but fighting a lot
- Kira is pregnant with Chief's baby

I hear that there are some good things in Voyager and Enterprise, so I'd like to watch both.

^^^ I have honestly not heard a single good thing about either show, which is a big reason why I have such a complete lack of interest. If I could just read one good review, it might pique my curiosity at least a little bit.

enterprise got pretty good in the final season .. voyager started strong i think .. turned a bit meh in the next few seasons and finished strong

I don't recommend either one.  Sorry.

I watched every episode of both of those series while on the clock at a very boring job.  Had I watched them for free, I would want my time back.

Update, specifically for 'Stroke:

I tried to watch Voyager.  Couldn't.  Maybe I'll revisit it, but so far, just a couple of episodes in, it was pretty bad.  Characters just didn't matter.  Plot just didn't matter.  After watching DS9, where one episode to the next mattered, Voyager just doesn't seem to make a lick of difference.  I do like the holo-doctor, but other than that, there isn't an interesting crewman.

So I jumped ahead to Enterprise.  I really, really like it.

I'm halfway through season 2 and I fully recommend it.  I hear that season 3 and especially 4 are great.  But I think it's good already.  Give it a shot.

I did the same thing with Voyager...got 3-4 episodes in and just couldn't compel myself to watch another episode. I'll put Enterprise on my list, but there are currently 9 shows ahead of it, so it might be a while before I get to it.

Enterprise is pre-Federation.  So, even in little "slice of life" episodes, they'll throw you a nostalgia bone about their first time eating replicated food, or using a transporter or what have you.

But just like the other series, you start seeing the characters grow.

I like the cast.  Some are a little Vanilla, but Archer, T'Pol and Trip are all pretty enjoyable.  And Phlox is great, too.