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Pretty graphic video released of Ray Rice clobbering his fiance in the elevator.  This pretty much removed all doubt about what happened in there.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2190975-video-of-ray-rice-incident-with-wife-janay-palmer-leaked-by-tmz

The rumor is that the NFL may re-open the case to suspend him further.  Social media is pretty much outraged.

Thoughts?

I've been waiting for this video. I wonder why it took so long to surface?

I thought the same thing.  My guess is that whoever had the video was shopping it to the highest bidder (TMZ)

I don't feel any differently about the situation than I did before I saw the actual punch video. Two games really shocked me and I would not be surprised to see the NFL consider a longer suspension because they have caught grief over this even before now. I'm just curious how that process would work out. I'm sure Rice would appeal any further action since this has been settled once (I bet the NFL had access to this video all along).

The NFL claims they haven't seen the video but supposedly Rice admitted to punching her.  So, aside from watching it, there really isn't new info here aside from the fact that she likely lost consciousness from hitting her head on the railing, not that he beat her unconscious.

Suspend him further? I've gotten two update emails from Baltimore sources today that claim that the Ravens are considering cutting him completely.

Sure wish there was audio there (I know, that is illegal), because I'd love to hear what Ray said that had his wife charging him in the elevator right before he popped her.

Ravens have terminated his contract. He's done.

might be DONE done.  Who would go sign him? 

Not this season, anyway.

The cynic in me thinks he will take a sensitivity training class, find Jesus, tearfully repent his sins (with a carefully written script from his lawyer) on the Oprah show, say what a changed man he is, and get picked up by some team either later this year or next year (after the American public with their nanosecond memory has been distracted by the latest rage or fad). 

I believe Rice just received one of the famous Greggggg Williams "lifetime" bans (that can be appealed in a year).

I don't think you need audio for that. It is clear to me that her head jerks before she charges him. He laid hands on her twice before she got knocked out.

I think he's pretty much done, simply by what position he plays.  He's toxic right now.  But who would want the bad press for an RB that's as old as he is when he finally comes back.  I mean, RBs don't last all that long as it is.

Just watched the video... holy crap that's just sick. Looks to me like he hits her twice (first time is before Rice backs off and is "charged" by his gf). Look at her head snap back.

Rice is finished in this league. No question.

I NEVER travel to this forum, but wanted to see what you guys were saying about this situation.

I was mad when he was only suspending for 2 games. Now that I've seen the actual video I think this guy should be in prison. He hit her twice and could have killed her. THEN what I find even more appalling is how roughly he seems to handle her while trying to get her out of the elevator. That is his future wife and he's dragging her around. That big ass dude could have easily picked her up and carried her where he needed to.

The fact that she still married him makes me sad and even worse, that she is taking the blame. Just gross.

I hope he never plays football again.

I don't know that it makes you feel any better, but since this video has emerged, he's gotten no support from anywhere.  Even forums for his own team wanted him cut immediately.

He's likely done in the league.

And the 2 game thing was (flimsily, I agree) justifiable, partially because I think the girl was in on it and there wasn't hard evidence to dispute the story.  She couldn't afford to tell the whole story to get his paycheck dried up.   Even then, it's stupid that the NFL penalizes harshly for weed, for example.

The NFL looks a little bit stupid, the Ravens look hella stupid, and Rice looks like a monster.

He probably won't.

How is it possible that the DA didn't feel they had a strong enough case to go to court, even without the victim's cooperation?

Because she's on video hitting him first?

I'm not sure how assault charges work, but I would imagine that if you strike someone first, you're no longer an innocent party.  I haven't seen any reports saying that she suffered a serious injury (um, after regaining consciousness), which I think would complicate any claims that he responded with excessive force.

It looks bad (and it is bad), but from a legal perspective, I think "don't hit someone you don't want to hit you back" applies.

^^^ You call that a hit? I've had girls do more of a hit while trying to flirt.

Doesn't matter. The law isn't designed to determine which hit was harder. If she put her hands on him first then the case isn't as strong.

I think her head bouncing off the elevator wall probably caused more damage than the punch.

Either way, pretty messed up and if you are bigger/stronger you shouldn't do that to a woman, you have to be a man and handle it like a man.

THIS.

He could've easily fended her off, but decided to punch her out. I think she was knocked out by hitting her head on the wall. Like I said earlier, his handling of her after that was awful as well.

Yes, he looks like he had no remorse for what he had just done... he treated her like garbage.

He looked, to me, like he thought "oh great, now what do I do with this?" and tried to get her to the elevator.

If you watch the tape, she stumbled getting into the elevator, which makes me think she (and probably him too) were drinking that night.  I am sure that had something to do with all that went down as well.  Not an excuse, still doesn't make it right...

Yeah. I think they were both probably drunk. (Not an excuse!)

What is scary is that if he hit her like that in a public place what does he do at home? Domestic violence is very rarely a one-time thing.
The fact that she is apologizing for being a victim reeks of an abusive relationship.

Yeah, this is bad.  She's releasing statements on instagram blaming other people for coming after their family.

Is she apologizing for sticking her head in the way when Rice threw that left hook?

Translation:  "I just married this idiot after he knocked me out and now you people make him lose his job and I am not happy about watching my millions of dollars walking out the door and now I'm stuck with this jobless @$$hole."

Pretty damn near. She apologized for "her involvement in the incident" back in May.

(http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--IRol1jkS--/qf2nuloxmu8wrpzrhvx9.png)

The Ravens have since deleted that Tweet. Which was REALLY gross.

Man, I hate when people stick their faces in the way of my fists...

So apparently she spit on him right before he slugged her, which I presume is supposed to be the "mitigating factor" as to why Rice only got 2 games to begin with.

I don't care for all the ire pointed at the NFL.  I understand that they have to protect their brand image, but I'm not really all that in favor of a company taking super severe action against their employees.  I mean...I get it and I think that Rice is a total scumbag and derelict and I wouldn't want him on my team.  But... the NFL isn't a court of law.  I am not really comfortable with them handing down lifetime bans for off-the-field incidents.  We have a legal system to gather evidence and punish society.  I don't want Roger Goodell having to do that to this extent.  And I certainly don't think that people should be calling for his resignation.

I think the people clamoring for him to resign and for all the Ravens coaches and staff to be fired are just ridiculous.  There's a point to be taken, and appropriate action.  Its not Roger Goodell's job to punish Ray Rice.  Its the legal system's job. 

I don't think Goodell did anything wrong.  It was said that Goodell had no access to the tape, and it would have been illegal to give it to him.  I don't blame Harbaugh for keeping Rice around originally, but the Ravens fired him immediately once the video came out. 

I think some people are on a witch hunt and just want EVERYONE to feel the pain.  Sometimes, these things go too far.  Remember, Ray Rice is the scumbag, and no one else.

I think that there's a lesson to be learned by the NFL (and certainly by the Ravens).  The NFL just needs to correct its punishment system to be more consistent.  I think that the real place that the NFL looks stupid is by having these hard-line stances on things like weed (which is now legal in certain states), but significantly less for battering your wife.  But, until it happens, I guess you just can't foresee how dumb you look.

The Ravens look pretty bad by welcoming him back and with all the tweets and all that.  And while his wife did share involvement (if, in fact, she did spit in his face), it's just stupid to publicly post that on your Twitter -- to quote Jeff Lebowski, "You're not wrong; you're just an asshole."

Actually, it is worse than that. The first time the NFL catches you smoking crack, they stick you in a program. But the first time you take Sudafed... FOUR GAME SUSPENSION!

The only circumstance under which Goodell should resign is one in which he knew how bad this was and tried to cover it up hoping it would go away.

Really, why would the NFL cover this up. That's the dumbest argument I've heard. The NFL and the owners couldn't care less about Ray Rice, much less covering for him. They aren't buddies with Ray Rice, they have no interest in him other than to exploit his popularity to sell team jerseys. They have nothing to gain in covering anything up. They would react exactly like they did react once they had evidence. Cut the guy . .ban him from the nfl (probably for life) and go on to your next RB .. cause .. seriously .. dime a dozen.

Um... where did I make that argument? I simply said only under that type of scenario should Goodell be forced to resign because it would show nefarious intent.

I didn't say you made the argument .. i said that the argument is dumb

Gotcha. My bad.

Fau and Rich are exactly right.

The original 2-game NFL suspension was likely related to the fact that the entire case was based on suspicion of wrongdoing.  No witness or evidence was available at the time, so his penalty was not as severe because it was plausible that maybe something else happened in the elevator when no one was watching (passed out from being drunk, or tripped and fell, etc).

Once all doubt was removed (earlier this week), swift and appropriate actions were taken by all parties.

Nothing more to see here.  Case closed, let's all move on.

^^^It wasn't based on suspicion. It was based on the fact that it wasn't visible. Both parties supposedly admitted to their roles and Ray Rice supposedly told the entire story to Gooddell. Now we can argue that Ray didn't paint a good picture or we can argue that Ray didn't tell the entire story but we absolutely cannot argue the suspension was based on suspicion because everyone knew Ray knocked her out somehow. He admitted to doing so. The only difference is Goodell sees the violence now instead of having a mental picture painted by Ray Rice.

that's a good example of why video evidence trumps eyewitness testimony every time

eyewitness testimony is unreliable and faulty at best.

^^^This was participant testimony rather than eyewitness which I think you can argue is likely less reliable.

He was arrested for battery, if I'm not mistaken.

But he got a plea deal and is in pre-trial intervention. From what I read, the DA was going to have a difficult time winning an outright battery case because she supposedly spit on him before he punched her... and I believe spitting is also considered assault. Not to mention she married the dude and now is not obligated to testify.

When the spouse is the victim of the crime this protection goes away in many places. From my quick research New Jersey is one of those so they could have forced her to testify.

The spousal testimonial privilege of N.J.R.E. 501(2), codified in N.J.S.A. 2A:84A-17(2), precludes the spouse “of the accused in a criminal action” from testifying in such action “except to prove the fact of marriage.” In creating this prohibition, the Legislature recognized only three specifically enumerated exceptions:

    (a) [when the] spouse or partner consents, or (b) [a case in which] the accused is charged with an offense against the spouse or partner, a child of the accused or of the spouse, or a child to whom the accused or the spouse or partner stands in the place of a parent, or (c) [a case in which] such spouse or partner is the complainant.

http://www.kostrolaw.com/NJFamilyIssues/2010/09/08/the-spousal-testimonial-privilege-precludes-the-spouse-of-the-accused-in-a-criminal-action-from-testifying-in-such-action-except-to-prove-the-fact-of-marriage/

Yeah, except that she didn't want to press charges to begin with...

Just gonna leave this right here: http://deadspin.com/report-nfl-had-copy-of-ray-rice-tape-1633159819/all

Hmmm.... game changer?

Yup...and I absolutely think the NFL tried to cover this shit up. The NFL might not give a shit about Ray Rice, but they give even fewer shits about women. The only reason he was fired and suspended indefinitely was because they were looking bad with this shit.

Why doesn't Goodell and the NFL powers that be hire TED WELLS and do an investigation of who knew about the video and when.

I mean they investigated a 300lb offensive linemen crying about being picked on but a woman gets punched and the NFL covers it up and no outside investigation?

Little odd

Somebody must have heard me. It's not Ted Wells but the NFL hired an independent investigator

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24704905/nfl-ex-fbi-director-robert-mueller-will-investigate-ray-rice-situation

Gotta give my thoughts on this situation
 
According to self defense laws, a person must use no more force than appears reasonably necessary in the circumstances.

I think from a legal standpoint his actions definitely crossed that line.
 
I can't fathom why she married him anyway.  Boggles my mind

^^^ The money.

It's pretty simple.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I want to chime in here.  You can't really compare those situations.  I'm going to sound like a callous dick, but the bullying scandal should be a bigger deal to the NFL because it's directly their responsibility to protect the livelihood of their employees.  It's the very purpose of the league.

In this instance, it is not the NFL's job to protect women from getting punched during their own private moments.  It's just not.  That's the N.O.W.'s job.  The NFL is there to protect its brand image and the interests of its owners.  This Ray Rice thing is bad for business.  But the NFL is a body that governs football.  It's not an organization meant to protect battered women.

This only becomes the NFL business because it's on tape and hurts their brand.  Otherwise, why is a football organization investigating the private matters of a married couple?  The fact that Goodell might have to resign is so dumb.  Someone is going to have to fall on the fire, I guess.

PS - Ray Rice is a total scum bag.  But so is his wife.  I'm not defending what he did.  But if she really does spit in his face, that's not battered women syndrome.  That's spitting in someone's face and getting knocked the fuck out syndrome.  He shouldn't have done it, and he should likely be in jail.  But that's why we have a justice system.  I don't know why anyone is looking to the NFL to be the moral compass here.

That is 100% correct.

You don't sound like a dick but you sound off base. The investigation is not about the private matters of a married couple. The investigation is about if the NFL lied and covered up a PR nightmare. Completely different things.

I don't understand what the NFL has to gain to "cover up" anything.  Its one player out of 1700.  Who cares?  There are plenty more to be disciplined as well.

But the bigger deal to me is that Rice isn't in jail.  I would imagine that battery is illegal, especially of the domestic variety.  But, as Dave said, its not the NFL's job or Roger Goodell's job, to determine if Ray Rice is guilty.  He's just supposed to hand out discipline to try to encourage his players to be model citizens.  He did exactly that.  Because some people disagreed with the harshness of the original discipline doesn't mean that he needs to lose his job.

This whole story is getting blown out or proportion and its starting to annoy me.

Exactly.  IMO there is a lot of misplaced anger at the NFL.  It's not the NFL's job to protect women, nor prosecute criminals.  The NFL's only obligation is to protect their business operations.  Rice is lucky he didn't kill her, and he ought to be going to jail for what he did; but the NFL doesn't operate jails (except in Philadelphia).  Angry at the NFL for covering up the video?  How about being angry at the justice system for not releasing the video.

Releasing the video to who?  to TMZ?  YouTube?

Its not even for us to see.  It should have been released to the police and the DA.  That's all.  Period.  Show the video in court and see how long it takes Rice to change into his orange jumpsuit.

That is not their role.

That is the story TODAY, but prior to that, it was "why didn't the NFL go after the tape harder?"

If the NFL is caught lying to protect the image of an abuser, that's a different story, and I have no problem with someone getting axed.  But that's a new development as of the AP report yesterday.  Goodell's head was on the chopping block long before that.

^^^ Sure it is.  The police release videos of criminal activity all the time.  Our justice system is based upon trials being held in the open, with evidence presented for public view.

Goodell should be fired for making football two hand touch. It might not be right but if this gets him canned then don't let the door hit you on the ass.

Yea, I guess. The thing is, until yesterday I didn't really think the Goodell movement, as I will call it, had much steam. I thought it just sounded like a good talking point. After the AP report it sure feels different. I'm really curious to hear how this plays out.

Just because they do it, doesn't make it their role to do it. Alot of times they are releasing those videos because the suspects are on the run etc.

But they are not obligated to release it to the public. Sometimes releasing information to the public can taint a jury pool.

I agree.  I don't know if he's lying to cover this up (although I don't see why the NFL would do that, since they're going to make big bucks regardless of whether Ray Rice plays or not.  I don't understand the rewards vs. risk).  I'm not going to speculate and that will all come out.

If it comes out that Goodell knowingly covered this up to protect Ray Rice, then I can see how he's damaged the brand beyond his repair.  But if it's just people upset that the NFL didn't do enough, his dismissal isn't warranted.

A very good read for those that are victim blaming and don't quite understand how domestic abuse works. http://deadspin.com/the-only-thing-unusual-about-ray-and-janay-rice-is-that-1633583402/all

I don't think anyone here is victim blaming, aside from the victim herself...

I think Dave's statement was pretty victim blaming. Spitting on someone is awful, but it doesn't warrant getting knocked out. (Also, I've watched the video and it appears that he spit on her, but who knows.) Also, assuming she married him for money and not for the numerous reasons battered women stay with their husbands is a little gross.

The AP saw a more complete version of the video (with audio) and said that Palmer was the one that spit on Rice, right before he punched her.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/09/ray-rice-video_n_5789752.html

This is not "victim blaming," but an attempt to correct the facts being discussed.  It is perfectly consistent to say that Palmer spit on Rice and that Rice's actions were not justified.

I think I'm probably on the wrong side of this issue, but I don't really understand why.  And clearly I don't understand domestic violence.

In this case, she's a victim, but not necessarily an innocent one.  If you spit in someone's face, that is pretty bad provocation.

But that's not even the point.  My main point is that if you get hit and knocked out, that's completely fucked up, and you deserve all the sympathy in the world.  But what I don't understand is why your decision to then stay with and marry that person is beyond criticism.

At some point, you're complicit in your own abuse if you allow it to continue happening.

And I get that my position seems to be indefensible, but I honestly don't know why.

^^^ I'm with you and I would think most sane people would be too. Rice is totally unjustified in hitting his fiance/wife but then when she goes on and marries him, any further abuse is on both of them. She knows what he is like and still puts her in that position.

I have no idea what their relationship is like, but it's not unheard of for a woman to marry her abuser simply because she's terrified he will do worse to her if she doesn't marry him.  I'm not saying that's the case in this scenario, but it did happen to one of my family members.

I know it's not unheard of, but doesn't make it any less stupid.

A couple of common objections to that logic (which may or may not apply in this case) are the following:

- the abusee may be financially dependent on the abuser
- the abusee may want to stay together for the children
- the abuser may have psychologically manipulated the abusee into believing that (s)he is broken and unlovable
- the abuser may have threatened the abusee with many different kinds of retaliation

Given the situation, Palmer was basically forced to make a decision: immediately marry the man she was already engaged to, or completely break it off (because from Rice's standpoint, he needed to marry her immediately).  As you just said, spitting on someone means you're not 100% innocent in the situation, so it's understandable that she would feel somewhat guilty (even if that isn't objectively appropriate) about what Rice is going through.

As I see it, she slapped him, he slapped her back, she spit in his face, and he knocked her out.  His response was unwarranted and excessive, but I can easily see how she would rationalize his response as something that wouldn't have happened if she didn't spit on him.

On the aspect of "excessive force" -

Would the story have been any different had she spit in his face and, as a result, Rice then grabbed her by the neck, pinned her against the elevator wall, and then released her?

Would the story have been any different had he hit her in the face, but she didn't fall over, hit the railing, and go unconscious?

Just wondering where the line of "excess" is drawn...

In either of those scenarios (presuming the altercation ended there), there would have been no "story," because no one would have known about it.  Even if there was a Solange-style elevator video leak, I doubt the NFL would have gotten involved in a... less disproportionate situation of mutual domestic violence.

 INSIDE THE NFL on Showtime was a mess this week too covering this topic. After they (and it was really Boomer Esiason and Ed Reed) spend 15-20 min ripping Ray Rice for his domestic violence and hitting of his wife. They say anyone who abuses a woman has no place in our society and no place in the NFL. They are outraged, disgusted, and find it stomach turning. They then in the next segment send it over to their "NEW" co-host Brandon Marshall and are laughing with him and making jokes with him, act just having a party. Yes the same Brandon Marshall who has been arrested on domestic violence and abusing his wife/girlfriend so many times they stopped counting but the number is between 5-10 times. And Marshall has done far worse than Ray Rice it just hasn't been caught on tape yet. Kind of tough to be taken seriously as a broadcaster or a show in general when you take a strong stance against abusing woman but then 15 seconds later you are hugging, laughing with, and joking with the king of abuse himself!

This whole story just puts such a bad light on the NFL and shines a negative light on everything. How SHOWTIME would even cover this issue when they employ Brandon Marshall the king of abusing woman is beyond me. They should have just talked football and just not touched this subject at all.

5-10 times? Really? I'm not defending his actions at all. Domestic violence is horrible, but if you're going to make claims, at least make them accurate.

He's actually been arrested twice. He was acquitted once and never even charged the other time. Several media outlets are praising the show for Marshall's involvement and his honesty about the topic. -EK

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/09/brandon-marshall-showtime-inside-the-nfl

Some fuzzy math going on here but whatever. One domestic violence in college. One in 2007, one in 2009, one in 2011 where he was stabbed but was later reported he was the instigator in that nights evenings. He went to court for it twice but there are more than 2 incidents. If you wanna go back and forth on this we can but the point is its more than 2, some just were dropped right after they happened as some instances are in domestic violence. I mean he stabbed his girlfriend in the leg with a fork that ESPN did a piece on for crying out loud. So the math is a little fuzzy but whatever. Either way using Brandon Marshall as an "expert" on Domestic Violence, while yes he can speak on the subject with some expertise with his history...it's also in very poor taste on every level. It's like NBC or FOX hiring a Terrorist with multiple be-headings on their resume as their Middle Eastern Correspondent and putting him in a suit and on the evening news every night. It's just in poor taste. People like Ray Rice and Brandon Marshall shouldn't be celebrated they should be looked down upon by society.  Not put on TV in a suit and laughing and giggling.

And the fact there is debate on whether Greg Hardy should play this week is also a black eye to the league. Throw these bums OUT OF THE LEAGUE! The NFL will survive without with Ray Rice, Greg Hardy, Brandon Marshall, and Ray McDonald's of the world!

The math isn't fuzzy. You're just wrong. You said he's been arrested 5-10 times for domestic violence. He hasn't. End of story. If you meant he has a shady past with it, then you should have said that. Your statement was that he has had 5-10 arrests. That's quite a stretch. -EK

No its fuzzy but if you want to defend someone with even 1 domestic violence case where they physically assaulted a woman, I'm not interested in even having that discussion. It makes me sick you will find this as a topic to troll about and take the contrarian stance on. You want to defend these clowns and muddy up the numbers when it comes to Marshall and Rice and how many times they beat up a female...go for it. Says more about you than it does me.

Have a nice day

The Panthers this morning deactivated Greg Hardy. Then Panthers owner Jerry Richardson gave a "NO COMMENT" when asked about it. Now being reported he (Richardson) was forced to do it against his will and he wanted to play the convicted domestic violence offender in Hardy.

This is some league with some leadership!

Jim Rome and Boomer Esiason just laid the smack down to Charles Barkley on the Adrian Peterson matter! NICE! Made Chuck look stupid

Also good opinion by Boomer on the Ray Rice subject

When girls fall for guys it can be hard for them to leave them.

She might genuinely have very strong feelings for him

Locking this thread and deleting the off topic argument.