The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

I can't believe no one is bringing this up, especially since our Ray Rice conversation went so many pages. I myself was holding out the benefit of the doubt as I believe a properly executed spanking can be a proper parenting tool (although I understand the definition of proper execution is very subjective). I finally looked to see the picture today and what Peterson did is absolutely over the line. This kid is four years old and had multiple open wounds from the lashes. How do you think this is going to play out?

As a side note, I have a friend who had AP and Rice on the same fantasy team.

I think that we, the NFL, and everyone has kinda learned their lesson from the Ray Rice stuff.  I just don't want to take a stance and vilify a guy before there's evidence released.

On top of it, I think that this is a much grayer issue.  While we can mostly all agree that knocking out your fiance is bad, I bet you'll find a lot of people who will support Peterson's ability to punish his child with a switch.

I feel like I heard or read somewhere that it's going to be handled under the domestic violence rule. If that's the case, I expect a 6 game ban. I know that it's AP and he's superhuman as a RB, but it wouldn't shock me if he got the Ray Rice treatment as well.

Side note- I have Jamal Charles and AJ Green on my team. Bad day for injuries yesterday.

Edit to add- now there's talk that they may try to trade him, but won't release him. -EK

CBS pregame show came alive on this topic yesterday.  Boomer Esiason wants him banned for life. Charles Barkley said he did nothing wrong and it's a southern thing people in the south do to their kids sometimes...lol

I know what I would do if in charge but this is the NFL.  I think a fair agreement is he sits the rest of the season until this sorts itself out. But who knows this league is run by lunatics he will be out there in a week or 2 probably

Just was announced. ...AP is playing this week for the  Vikings.

Gotta love the NFL!  What a joke

Here's the thing: domestic violence (between adults) is completely illegal, while corporal punishment is a dearly-held sovereign right of American parents.  So if you want to outlaw corporal punishment, then by all means... but until then, AP is not guilty of beating his child, but merely of beating his child too hard.

I mean, when you see stuff like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wl9y3SIPt7o), where a judge repeatedly whips his 16-year-old daughter with a belt and doesn't even lose his job (much less face charges), what are we really talking about here?

^ That's my ultimate point here.  It's not what AP did.  It's just to what effect he did it. 

I choose not to spank my daughter, because I don't want to open that can of worms.  But lots of parents do.

If we are to compare apples to apples, the current dialogue on Ray Rice would have to be:

"Well, I don't think we should be telling people how to run their lives... if Janay Palmer got out of line, Ray Rice has a right to be able to tune her up.  He is the head of the household, after all.  But he went way over the line; he punched her in the head, when a slap or two would have worked just fine."

Somehow, I don't see that conversation happening anytime soon.

It's not really apples to apples, though, because the consensus is that zero physical "correction" of your spouse is acceptable.  But certains levels are acceptable to your kids.

Well, yes.

That was my point.

I guess Peterson has beaten his other 4 year old kid from a different mother as well and left a scar on his face

http://deadspin.com/adrian-peterson-accused-of-beating-another-son-leaving-1635102727

Yet the NFL will let him play this week...unreal

Keep peeling the onion, you're bound to find something.

I guess my parents should both be doing 25 to life for all the wooden spoons and belts I got beat with when I was a kid. My mom had a yardstick in the car so she could more easily reach us in the back seat.

^^^ What Peterson did was more than a spanking with a hand, spoon, or belt.  It was abuse.  When the skin is broken in multiple places, and the child has bruises in various places, that's more than a punishment.  And lets not forget this was a FOUR YEAR OLD, not a ten or twelve year old kid.  If he did the same to his wife there is not a police officer in the United States that wouldn't arrest him for domestic battery, so why would it be okay to do it to a defenseless 4 year old??  The sad thing is that Peterson thinks what he did was okay.

He thinks what he did was OK because there are people in this country who will insist that spanking with a hand, spoon, or belt is acceptable in moderation.

If he used a belt on his wife, whether he left marks or not, he would be instantly thrown in jail.  If he used a belt on his kid, as long as he didn't leave any marks, We Must Not Tell Him How To Raise His Child.

Reap what you sow.  I encourage you to look at the video I linked above.

I see.  I am dumb, apparently.

There's a difference between litigating something that happened 30 years ago and today.  Times change.

There are many things that were perfectly acceptable in the 1950s that were not acceptable in the 1980s.  It shouldn't be too hard to think of some of them.

The AP is reporting that AP was just deactivated indefinitely by the Vikings and placed on the "Exempt Commissioner Permission List", which basically means he's been suspended from all team activity.

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/vikings-bring-back-peterson-abuse-charge-25529651

It's the right thing to do

And great for my fantasy team !

I think the main thing to learn from this story is that half-measures only hurt you.

SF has done absolutely nothing about Ray McDonald and you don't hear their sponsors getting squirrelly.
MIN decided to sit AP and then reinstate him, which is where they got in trouble.  They could have done exactly the same thing SF did, which is say "we're waiting for due process" and leave it at that.

That is certainly part of it, but another part is the difference in stature/public popularity. When you say the name "Adrian Peterson," everyone knows you're talking about a sports superstar. If you mention the name "Ray McDonald," most people outside the Bay Area will ask "Did Old McDonald have a son, E-I-E-I-O?

I guess the old "innocent until proven guilty" is out the window, huh?

(well, yes, it's been gone since the birth of the Internet, if not before)

In fairness, though, the facts of the case don't really seem to be the issue with AP. It is, first and foremost, a matter of his conduct (the result of which has been documented). Is that conduct acceptable? The issue of legality is completely secondary.

He is innocent still. He is still getting paid by his employer. They just don't want him at work till this gets sorted out with the legal system.

Nothing wrong with that at all. AP can't bitch...the paychecks are still coming in.

I think Peterson took it too far. He needs parenting classes but doesn't appear to be purposely abusing his kid. It's hard to equate to him to murderers and women abusers IMO.

I swear I'm not making this stuff up. My friend who had Rice & AP on his team had picked up Dwyer for his bench earlier this week.

Between injuries and arrests, I've never seen a year in the NFL like this one.

^^^I read that to my roommate and he cackled like a madman... ;D

The Vikings just cut "ELITE NFL WR" Jerome Simpson today.

Guess the pressure is on to get rid of some scumbags after the AP situation.

I finally saw the pictures of AP's kid.

It's pretty cut and dry child abuse.  My daughter is turning 3 this week.  She's so innocent.  No child deserves lashings.  Hell, no person deserves lashings.

Apparently, he has 7 kids with different women all across the country.  Dude's a scumbag.

Yep!

Looks like AP's season is over and Mort of ESPN thinks his time in Minny is over and he will get a severe NFL suspension once his case goes through the legal system.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24719247/report-vikings-do-not-foresee-adrian-peterson-in-their-future

He admitted he did it. It is going to be up to a jury to decide if it was a normal amount of corporal punishment, or he crossed the line. Based on the photographs, and the age of the child, it appears to be abuse to me. We will have to see if any other information comes out to mitigate what the photos show.

Stop defending douchebags, Brian.

Take a look at the pictures.

There is no situation acceptable to hit a 4 year old 15 times with a stick until he has open sores.

That's abuse.  He's admitting he did it.  Put him in jail and be done with it.

But it is perfectly acceptable to hit a a 4 year old 15 times with a stick if you don't cause open sores, which is the problem.

AP's crime is not that he hit his child; it's that he hit his child in excess.  There are a bunch of people out there who want to brand him a monster and compare him to Ray Rice, but the bottom line is that in America, hitting your child is a vigorously defended parental right.

you keep bringing that up .. and yes .. hitting your kid is a parental right .. hitting them excessively is not.

scale matters in most things i fail to see your point.

Spanking is not a "vigorously defended" right. It's already ILLEGAL in one state (Delaware, Senate bill 234), and most other states have laws that are similarly worded to Florida's, which makes the following definition of an illegal action: ""Harm" to a child occurs when the parent or other person responsible for the child's welfare inflicts or allows to be inflicted upon the child physical, mental, or emotional injury. The following factors must be considered in evaluating any injury: prior injuries; location; multiplicity; and type of trauma. Such injury include, but are not limited to willful acts that produce the following specific injuries: sprains, dislocations, or cartilage damage; bone or skull fractures; brain or spinal cord damage; intracranial hemorrhage or injury to other internal organs; asphyxiation, suffocation, or drowning; injury resulting from the use of a deadly weapon; burns or scalding; cuts, lacerations, punctures, or bites; permanent or temporary disfigurement; or permanent or temporary loss or impairment of a body part or function. "Willful" refers to the intent to perform an action, not to achieve a particular result or an intent to cause an injury."

Note that cuts and lacerations such as the ones Peterson's child received are specifically mentioned. -EK

Rice needs counseling and not jail. You looking to break the pattern and not punish him IMO. Punishing him does nothing in this situation as he didn't see it as illegal to begin with. I know ignorance isn't an excuse but your talking about something that has been going on for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. Need to break the ignorance.

I think you mean Peterson, not Rice.

According to Delaware state AG Beau Biden, who pushed for this law, it does not prohibit spanking: “This will not do anything to interfere with a parent’s right or ability to parent as they see fit, but it also makes it clear that if you abuse a child in any way, shape or form, we’re going to have a statute that we’re going to be able to use to protect kids,” he stated.

Furthermore, even if we take you at your word, if spanking is only illegal in 1 out of 50 states, that's pretty vigorously defended.

You're missing part of the statute, and a relevant part at that.

The statute against child abuse defines "abuse" as any willful act or threatened act that results in any physical, mental, or sexual injury or harm that causes or is likely to cause the child's physical, mental, or emotional health to be significantly impaired.

The term "significantly" is important, as it's basically a get-out-of-jail-free card for any corporal punishment advocates that are restrained enough not to leave marks.  Once you determine that "harm" must "significantly impair" the child's health in order to qualify as abuse, the definition of harm becomes substantially less relevant; to my knowledge, the laws are worded against child abuse, not child harm (as above).

It's not that at all, and it doesn't surprise me that you purposely omit the section that spells out what that harm is especially for argumentative folks like yourself. Here it is again since you ignored it the first time:

"Such injury include, but are not limited to willful acts that produce the following specific injuries: sprains, dislocations, or cartilage damage; bone or skull fractures; brain or spinal cord damage; intracranial hemorrhage or injury to other internal organs; asphyxiation, suffocation, or drowning; injury resulting from the use of a deadly weapon; burns or scalding; cuts, lacerations, punctures, or bites; permanent or temporary disfigurement; or permanent or temporary loss or impairment of a body part or function"

Further, while Biden may have stated that, that's not how the law has been interpreted. Do a google search for Delaware and spanking law and you'll get multiple hits like this one, entitled "Child Welfare Legislation Outlaws Spanking" http://www.hslda.org/hs/state/de/201209210.asp

Finally, just because the practice isn't outright illegal in the other states, doesn't mean it's defended- vigorously or otherwise. That's quite a stretch, even for you. -EK

Brian is always defending these athletes and then blames the media for the coverage. It's unreal how some people just worship these athletes and defend them no matter what they do.

AP is the scum of the earth for what he did to that 4 year old. He really is! And Reggie Bush is scum too and ain't far behind with his comments defending AP and adding that in some situations he will harshly discipline his 1 year old daughter........WTF is a 1 year old doing that you have to "harshly discipline" the poor kid. It's a friggin 1 year old! And then went on to add he would use a switch or a tree branch on her if the situation called for it

I don't know if AP belongs in jail but he should have his kid(s) taken away from him or lose visitation rights at the least for a little while. He isn't equipped to be around a child and that is clear as day. And if Reggie Bush is going public that he harshly disciplines a 1 year old, an investigation should take place and maybe he needs his kid taken away from him too. Because honestly that moron bragging about harshly disciplining a 1 year old and saying he would use a "switch/tree branch on her".... he clearly ain't got all his marbles either!  

Instead of arguing over parts of statutes, why don't you just point me to the specific law you are talking about?  Then we won't have to worry about any more partial omissions.

Then feel free to find me an author or sponsor of the law that says, "Yes, this law outlaws spanking, by design" or something to that effect.

You can't, because spanking is a vigorously defended parental right in America.  This is why the authors of the Delaware law insist that it doesn't apply to spanking or evade the question.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporal_punishment_in_the_home#United_States

In the majority of states, physical punishment by a parent remains legal under statutes making exceptions to the state's law on the crimes of assault, criminal battery, domestic violence and/or child abuse. These exceptions usually establish that no crime has been committed when certain actions are applied to a minor by that child's parent or legal caregiver. However, the line between permitted corporal punishment and punishment legally defined as abuse varies by state and is not always clear (laws typically allow "reasonable force" and "non-excessive corporal punishment"). Such language is often vague and is necessarily subjective and fact-driven, so that most cases present a fact issue for trial as to reasonableness or non-excessiveness. Examples of law permitting bodily punishment of children include two different articles of the Minnesota Legislature allow parents and teachers to use corporal punishment as a form of discipline by creating explicit exceptions to the state's child abuse statutes for "reasonable and moderate physical discipline."[45][46] Application of exceptions for physical punishment raise legal issues as well. In 2008 the Minnesota Supreme Court considered a case involved a man who had struck his 12-year-old son 36 blows with a maple paddle. The trial court held that this constituted abuse, but was reversed on appeal. In affirming the reversal, the Minnesota Supreme Court stated that "We are unwilling to establish a bright-line rule that the infliction of any pain constitutes either physical injury or physical abuse, because to do so would effectively prohibit all corporal punishment of children by their parents" and "it is clear to us that the Legislature did not intend to ban corporal punishment".[47][48]

I'd say specific carve-outs for spanking in assault, battery, domestic violence, and child abuse statutes indicates a pretty vigorous defense.  That's before you get to things like this:

ABCNews Poll: Most Approve of Spanking Kids (http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=90406)

I don't think that statement is completely fair.  The current "media" climate today is to rush to judge, and throw out the wildest claims to garner ratings, without actually gathering all the facts.  And you, MikeO, are often very quick to eat up whatever news story is published.  It's important to get all sides of the story before making a judgement.  Sometimes your initial feeling is correct, sometimes its not.

And the truth was heard throughout the land...

I will post a link to a story and comment on it....sure. But I don't attack the media 99.9% of the time and blame them for every little thing. There is a BIG difference!

Peterson and his lawyer today are trying to get his trial date pushed up so he can get back on the field this year.

Another rich spoiled athlete who thinks the world revolves around him. Yeah let's rearrange an entire court schedule because you are a famous football player! These guys just never get it.

The only thing that will tell you is whether "child abuse" is illegal, which everyone agrees on.

Had Peterson hit his son with a tree branch, but done so in a manner that did not leave any marks, he would then just be a loving parent who believes in stern (but reasonable and totally legal) discipline.  As cited in the paragraph above, a man in Minnesota was acquitted of child abuse in 2008 for striking his 12-year-old son 36 times with a wooden paddle.

Keep it on topic guys. I removed the personal stuff.

Just what this site needs...its own douchey soap opera.

http://nypost.com/2014/10/06/adrian-peterson-had-orgy-with-minor-misused-charity-funds-report/

This Adrian Petersen is a real loser!

Yes he's a philanderer, and he doesn't have very high moral standards.  However, I wouldn't take a story from the NY Post as gospel, their reporting is barely above the National Enquirer.

Talk about a misleading headline.

Peterson paid for orgy attended by minor: report (http://nypost.com/2014/10/06/adrian-peterson-had-orgy-with-minor-misused-charity-funds-report/)

In this case, the "minor" that "attended" the orgy was... his younger brother.

Won't somebody PLEASE think of the children?!?

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/story/26748108/adrian-peterson-could-be-arrested-again-on-drug-violation#.VDbhRtvRFGY.twitter

Peterson to be arrested again