The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

Saw an article that the NCAA is discussing moving the NCAA tournament from March to April/May. Another sport trying not to compete with the NFL apparently. But wouldn't it compete with the NBA/NHL playoffs? Not sure how that would work out.

 I'm not a fan of this move as I'm so used to March being the month for college basketball. But if they do move it to April/May and I go to Vegas for the tourney, one advantage would be that the hotel pools will be open unlike in March.

I saw them discussing this on PTI and if I understood it correctly, it wasn't the tourney that they were worried about.  It did fine.  It was the lead-up of the season.  That's competing with too many other things and it would move the season farther into April with the tournament potentially in early May.  I think the main idea is to move the regular season away from the NFL playoff run.

I don't really watch any regular season college B-Ball and doubt I would if it were moved, but I do like the Tournament.

I love basketball but college bball is just boring  compared to NBA, I just can't bring myself to watch it.

Not happening. Was an idea kicked around but it was shot down this morning

http://awfulannouncing.com/2015/march-madness-wont-be-overtaken-by-april-anxiety-but-what-if-it-was.html

College Basketball is so much better because the players on the court actually care. Unlike the NBA where the players mail it in most nights and don't give max effort. In college the kids play hard every night every game

i don't buy that for a bit .. it's like saying college football players care more and nfl players mail it in for a paycheck ..

1 - that's BS .. when tim tebow can dominate and then blow chunks in the nfl, you know the level of competition you're playing against
2 - i'd rather not watch or support the exploitation of teenagers to support the highest paid state paid employees and their child raping athletic directors.

For the life of me, I cannot understand why the NBA does not start their season in late November/early December and play through August.  I mean, for the NHL it makes sense (ice hockey is a winter sport), but we're not in the 1960s anymore and baseball is not some sort of juggernaut that needs to be avoided.

In my perfect world, the NBA and NFL seasons would be scheduled to run back-to-back.

NFL and NBA are very different. NFL you only have 16 games, only 16 chances for a player to prove his worth. NBA has 82 regular season games, throw in preseason and playoffs and its like a 100 game a year season, players can take nights off and weeks off and it's not the end of the world. They can dog it. In the NFL you dog it you don't get paid. All eyes are on all games in the NFL. Not the case in the NBA.

Horrible example you made.


Little rough to call all AD child rapists. Not to mention totally false

The best regular seasons the NBA have ever had is when they are strike shortened and start their season on Christmas Day. Reduce the regular season and makes their regular season games actually meaningful.  Start every regular season on Christmas and end in mid April. Shorten the season make the regular season have value.

Where did this horseshit statement come from?

I agree the other differences are
a higher % of nba teams make the playoffs and there is less benefit to a higher seed so as long as you are above the cut it doesn't matter
Bad nfl teams (other than the colts) don't tank the season for a better draft pick

Totally agree. Shorten the season to about 50 games and move the season up to start in December. The first week of NBA basketball is fun because it's a new season but after the "newness" wears off the sport doesn't get exciting again until the spring.

I've always thought they should move toward a schedule mirroring college basketball. Each team plays one game during the week and then one game during the weekend. On the weekend it can mirror a football Sunday. Games at 1 and 4, then a premier game Sunday night. Always thought that would be interesting.

I believe it's a combination of dissatisfaction with what the NCAA is, namely 1) getting incredibly rich off the hard work of student athletes, while not giving them anything remotely close to the market value of their worth and 2) Penn State covering up a pederast scandal so that they could keep winning football games.

1) That's a Penn St problem, can't pin it on EVERY AD across the country  ::)

2) I always laugh when people get mad at the NCAA. No high school kid is "forced" to go play for the NCAA or a college. If you don't like the NCAA system, don't go! It's not a god given right to play college football or basketball. You know the system and how it is set up, nobody is forcing any high school kid to sign the scholarship. If a high school student feels so strongly against the NCAA system, don't go. Find another line of work, go to school just as a student and pay your own way, or if you are a superstar athlete with an opportunity go play overseas or something.  But when you sign up to play a college sport to then complain and bitch the moment after you sign up about the way the system is set up, that's on you! Nobody forced you to sign up to play in college. You don't have to be a college athlete.   It's like someone signing up for the Army and then complaining they get sent to a war-zone to fight in battle. You signed up for it, you knew the deal before hand!  Such an entitlement society we have today. Kids sign a college scholarship and then want to change the way the system is run. If you don't like the system, don't be a part of it!

Louisville has closed some of that market value gap by providing their students with free strippers and hookers. I wonder if I have any eligibility left?

The NFL has effectively colluded with the NCAA to create a system where in order to be eligible to make millions in the NFL, players (who have no intention of completing the sham degree being "offered" by a university) must first play for free for at least two years.  And unlike pretty much any other job in any other field, you are expressly prohibited from making ANY SORT OF ENDORSEMENT MONEY off of your extremely lucrative name; only the university is allowed to profit off of your name.

"Exploitation of teenagers" is about right.

Again, not a god given right to play in the NFL. Enough high school athletes do want to chase their NFL dream and are willing to play in the NCAA and under their current system of just getting a free education as a reward. If you don't like the system, they don't be a part of it. Choose another profession, nobody is entitled to play in the NFL

MikeO, that's not how law works.  Because the NFL is a managed monopoly, they can't just set whatever "my way or the highway" laws they want. 

How is this an NFL problem? I thought you were upset with the NCAA and their system.

There will ALWAYS be enough players willing to go through the NCAA system "as is" to get to the NFL. The NFL will always have players come through the NCAA system. That isn't an issue. Not sure what your point is now.

my point is that I don't have to support a system i don't like or agree with either by watching it or by allowing an opportunity to comment on it to go unused.

from awareness comes change

I wouldn't say I'm upset with either the NFL or NCAA.  It doesn't affect me too much, but I do recognize that the system is bad and probably should be against the law.

You may have the technicality of saying that there are other choices, but for elite players, the only real path to success for football is 2 years of college and then the NFL draft.  The argument of playing in Europe instead is, in my opinion, semantics.

So, you're refusing an otherwise capable person to compete in their field because of age and the only option available to them is to work for free for 2 years, while other organizations and people get filthy rich off of their product.

Here's the rub. They aren't capable. This isn't the NBA (who didn't have a very high success rate so they implemented a plan as well). An 18 year old isn't developed enough to even sniff an NFL field.

^ It's great that you believe that.

But if Sophomores were allowed to be in the draft, the NFL teams would draft them.

You're taking people who would otherwise be able to get paid millions and millions of dollars now and telling them "no, you can't work in this entire industry" (because it's a monopoly).  Instead, you have to go work for free, while these organizations sell your rights and likeness in multi-billion dollar industry.

I'm not sure I completely agree with either side in this debate. I definitely think the NCAA is capitalizing (literally) on having a product that people will pay for (college sports). That said, the VAST majority of recent HS graduates simply aren't qualified to play at the professional level to make the big bucks. So, sure, the college may be taking advantage of the student athletes a little bit, but they are also training them and developing them so that they ARE qualified to play professional football in a few short years, plus...if the student athletes put a little effort into the student part, they can get a degree that will help them earn a viable living after their football days are over.

 So, yes...the college is definitely taking from the students, but they are also giving the students what they need to pursue the profession of their choice.

Dude, the world believes a high school senior would not be able to play in the NFL. You may be the only one to ever disagree with that Dave. Come on.

I have no problem with Sophomores entering but to imply high school kids can jump to the NFL is ridiculous.

Now, just to clarify where I stand on the issue currently, I think these players should be able to seek out compensation as long as it does not interfere with a school's sponsorship (shoe contract for example) and I think the schools could offer more. I don't think the players should be getting straight payment from the schools though. EA Sports should be compensating for their likeness and Jockey should be able to pay them for modeling.

I'm not implying that I think anyone is ready to play or not.  I just don't like refusing to allow them employment, should a potential employer deem that they're ready, while at the same time, refusing to allow them to be paid for the previous level.

And I didn't bring up high school at all.

It's the combo of legislating that they're not allowed to play in the NFL while also legislating that they can't be paid in college that's the problem.  These players OBVIOUSLY have a marketable skill (as it's being marketed for billions) and yet they have no means to collect on it, because it's a monopoly at both the NFL and college level.

So, theoretically, there could be a Sophomore in college that's better than people getting drafted and teams would want him on their rosters.  He is not allowed to go into the workforce to get paid and is essentially forced to do that job for free and they're not even allowed to make money off of their own likeness, signatures, modeling, etc -- as you suggest.

I think baseball and hockey have it right.  You can prove yourself in college or the minors (while being paid).  Football and basketball you need to go college even if college is not right for you.

Against the law? WHY? These players get a FREE EDUCATION worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. If they are dumb enough to blow it...that's on them. If they don't take the classes seriously...that's on them! They know the system they are signing up for. It's like saying I want to be a cop but don't want to go through the Police Academy to get there.   If you want the end result you must go through the system. Otherwise, choose another profession!

If the players want to be paid, fine....then no scholarship and make them pay tuition like every other rank and file student.  They aren't going to get FREE college education and paid a salary to boot. They can't have both, they are either student athletes and play in the system they have now. OR they are paid employees who must take classes to be eligible to play in a sport at the school.

Sense of entitlement society, it's so sad. People crying the NCAA makes money of the players, yeah and the NFL makes money off it's players. Just on a different level. NFL makes big bucks, players make pennies compared to the billions the NFL rakes in. NCAA makes billions (splits the pie many more times though with many more schools) and the student athletes get a free education worth thousands of dollars. Again, if the kids don't make good use of that education.....THAT'S ON THEM!!! They don't get to stomp their feet and throw a temper tantrum and change the system because they don't like it.

Even football and basketball have opportunities other than college.  Basketball has a lot of leagues overseas.  Football has the CFL, the Arena League, and a bunch of semi-pro leagues.   If a football/basketball playing kid doesn't want to go to college, he will have a chance to make money off his skill.  

When a kid signs a scholarship to play Division 1 college football, they are getting an expensive education for free.  That education is something that most of them could not afford at out-of-state tuition rates if they paid their own way.   So don't think for a second that these kids are working for free.  They get housing and food along with tuition.  And to call ADs child rapists is beyond delusional.  Not every school is Penn State.  

Who the F' is working for free? They are getting an education most people can't afford and many people take decades paying off . If the kid doesn't take advantage of that opportunity, then that's on them! Doesn't mean the whole system needs to be changed. And if the kid doesn't like the system....oh well, don't be an NCAA athlete and pick another profession in life.

Nobody on planet earth is entitled to be a professional athlete!

But you did say, "It's great that you believe that." when I said 18 year olds are not ready for the NFL. What else am I to infer?

Kids cannot jump from high school to the CFL either.

You are being incredibly naive and ignoring history. Modern college athletics is most closely related to late 1800s company towns with company stores where workers were mandated to rent housing from the company and buy goods from company stores. They were paid in script (company currency) and were not paid in actual dollars.

Stop me if this sounds at all like student athletes being given scholarships, housing and food plans in exchange for work on a mandatory schedule and then being prohibited from making alternate income.

It does .. because that is what it is. Just like with college sports, the workers don't have to work there, they can get employment elsewhere. no-one is forcing them to work for a company or to play football.

The problem is that this type of runaway corporate exploitation system isn't legal in the united states and hasn't been for over 120 years.  We just don't recognize college sports for what they are unfortunately.

That is a terrible analogy.  Nobody is being exploited for crying out loud, it's the system in place and nobody is forced to be in the system. By your logic the Army is exploiting people. Want to be part of the Army, then we give you housing, food, and a mandatory schedule.  I mean...nobody is forced to do anything. If you don't like the NCAA system (or the Army) in the year 2015 nobody is forcing you to join either.  Comparing it to the 1800's is beyond silly.

The army pays you in Dollars .. $$ .. Colleges do not ..

next ridiculous statement. please

I'd be fine with college sports if the athletes being forced to "work" over 40 hours / week were paid .. and had health coverage .. and were covered under workman's comp for workplace injuries and had collective bargaining. and were represented by the NLRB.

So you want the athletes to be employees. Ok, no problem. Pay them, and then take away their free scholarship and make them pay tuition. They get a discount like any other employee at a college would for being a student, but they still have to pay out of pocket.  Oh, and since they are getting paid they will have to pay taxes and union dues. And no more free housing and meal plan, that must be paid for too. Hey they are employees now, the free ride is over.

So, what's a better deal for the athletes.....getting paid, then take out taxes, union dues, and having to pay for the College Tuition and all of their food, housing, and books.  OR the current system where everything is free.

Oh and by the way, "paying" the athletes might work for a couple basketball and football players. But it kills every other sport. No Field Hockey player or Tennis player would even attempt to survive under that "set up"

I was just going to bring this example up.  It's the same thing.

You say that they're not being forced, MikeO.  But they essentially are.  They have no other realistic options in their field because it's a monopoly at both levels.

I am not saying that colleges HAVE to pay athletes.  But the fact that they are not allowed to pay them, coupled with athletes not being able to sell their own likeness, coupled with the fact that they are not allowed to work for pay in their field is bullshit and should be against the law.

Organizations are getting rich off of these kids and they are not allowed (at two levels, mind you) to profit one dime off of their own talents.

They aren't being forced because they don't have to be an NFL player or NBA player. If they want to be one they have to go through the system in place. If they don't like the system, don't be an NFL or NBA player. It's that simple.  They have options in life!  If you WANT to be a pro athlete in the NFL or NBA, then this is the system in place.  You know that going in....agree or disagree. Like I said, it's like if someone wanted to be a cop but doesn't want to go through the actual "police academy.' Well then don't be a cop, pick another profession. Just because you "WANT" to be something doesn't mean you are entitled to it or get to set up the system and change the rules so it best fits you.


When the day comes in your fantasy world where colleges have to pay players....you will see the vast majority of schools drop college athletics totally. It will bankrupt schools. You will have a select few very big "state universities" keep having sports. But damn near every private university would drop college athletics and say they don't need the headache. Most college football programs operate in the red now, if they have to pay players on top of that....ha, watch most schools get rid of football and every other sport.  With fewer options for kids to go places let me know how that works out in the best interest of the kids wanting to go to the NFL/NBA.

Big picture people, look at the big picture.

You have outlined the argument well, actually.

This may very well happen.  And if you're argument is that paying players is bad for college athletics or that it will ruin the sport or what have you -- I won't argue that.

I'm just saying that it's illegal.  Whether it's for the best or whether or not I support it, it goes against our laws and is discriminatory.  I don't care who gets paid or who doesn't.  We're talking about two different things.

In this country, to have a monopoly and discriminate with age, paired with another monopoly that refuses payment and you can't sell your likeness -- that is against the law.  Bottom line.

It's actually not against the law or else it WOULD be against the law and you would have no games this Saturday....lol

And who is discriminating with age? Seriously, I don't get that

Actually some of it is against the law currently. A federal judge has ruled the use of their likeness violates antitrust laws but that schools still do not have to pay athletes. Where that leaves us, I have no idea.

Where do you get that "most college football programs operate in the red now"?  In that last few years I have visited dozens of Div I and II colleges both with and without football. Many of the ones without football are trying to get it because it increases revenue to the schools by donations, tickets, merchandising and student enrollment. In fact football funds most of the other programs that do not generate much money.

I'm not sure what level of schools MikeO is describing, but I think he may have mixed up his facts a little. Large Universities are making money in football but losing money through the rest of the athletic department.

This is where the idea of schools raking in millions upon millions is false. The money comes in but also leaves through expenses elsewhere. The latest report I saw showed only about 20 universities (there are over 120 FBS schools) make money through athletics.

i'm ok with all of that. Let inter collegiate sports go away .. could not care less.

You are the exception not the rule. You are in the small minority who feel that way. Fringe stance you have

i prefer to call it consistent and principled

Athletes are compensated thru free tuition and other perks.  Nobody is forcing them to play sports, if that is not enough compensation they don't have to play. 

^ This is the same rationale that was deemed illegal when jobs tried to pay employees with their own store credits.

Also, when you have a monopoly, you aren't allowed to have that attitude.  There isn't an alternative company to work for.

Who's the monopoly? This has nothing to do with the NFL and NBA.  Are you calling the NCAA a monopoly?

All major professional sports teams are managed monopolies.  The NCAA is, as well. 

There is no other reasonable route for professional football or basketball players in this country.  Short of asking people to leave the country to play elsewhere.

I disagree about the NCAA being a monopoly but that will take this debate into a different direction and I don't feel like going there.

two huge difference

first schools are nonprofits not business.   Second for the amount of benefit a student gets relative to amount of work performed it is not exploitive.

your analogy fails

Nothing wrong with going overseas to play professionally.  And still, there are semi-pro leagues in nearly every major sport.  I can think of at least two semi-pro football leagues on top of the Arena League where guys who aren't good enough for the NFL go.  This girl I work with is from Little Rock, AR and used to be a dancer for the Arkansas Rhinos of the NAFL.