The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

Well?

If you can't trade up for Burrow or don't want to, than yes.   Only reason Herbert is in the equation is because of Tua's injury history. 

I would feel a lot better about Tua at #5 if the Dolphins and their medical staff were able to work him out, check him physically etc.   This whole COVID thing has changed the way that a lot of teams are probably looking at players for this year's draft.   Seeing his mobility, etc. in the video that he sent out was fine.  But you were seeing what he wanted you to see.   

They touched on this this topic this morning on the radio. If you're not paying the doctor there is no accountability and they literally can "say" anything positive they want while excluding any negatives.

My problem with Tua goes much deeper then just his injury status. I think he benefited tremendously from the team he was on and his stats look much better because of it. If Herbert and Tua swapped places I think you would see the same thing happen with their stats, Herbert's would look much gaudier and Tua's would look much more mundane and they would have comparable stats if Herbert's weren't better then Tua's. Then when you consider the fact that Herbert is the prototypical size for a QB, his athleticism and his arm ability and Tua's injury history (not his injury status) it becomes a no brainer for me that the pick should be Herbert. But what do I know, I'm just a fan.

"The team you are on" is a double-edged sword, though.  If Tua failed to even make the CFP in 3 years as a starter, he would be considered a total bust.

Absolutely a yes from me. Sure, there is a lot of risk, but I'm all for swinging for the fences on this one.

I'm also of the apparent absolute minority opinion that great quarterbacks are developed, they very rarely just "happen". Stick a the biggest talent on the worst team with the worst coaching and he will wind up looking like (and eventually becoming) a bust. Surround a talented, but not necessarily great, quarterback with the best coaches and the best team, and he *could* very well develop into a truly great quarterback.

I don't know that we have the coaches -- we certainly don't have the team -- but hopefully we do and hopefully the "team" part happens, through the draft and the free agency; we certainly have the picks and cap space for it. This also implies that I don't want to spend a bunch of picks moving up, since we wouldn't have the team in that case. We need it all.

So, yeah, swing for the fences.

I've been a Tua fan since he destroyed the Elite 11 competition in High School. The injuries concern me, but the talent is there to become a top-tier franchise QB.

I take him at 5 without hesitation.

I think I've made my position clear.

If Drew Brees has taught us anything it's that our decisions can come back to bite us for many years.

For those of you not wanting Tua I'll ask you this. What's worse in your mind ... Tua failing as the Dolphins QB or if he succeeds in New England to become the next dynasty?

If the scenario comes to pass that Miami passes on Tua, New England trades up to get him and then Tua spends the next 10 years owning the AFC East...that would go down as the worst kick-in-the-nuts in Miami Dolphins history.

More than likely the Chargers would pick him up at #6. Making the comparisons to Brees even more painful.

Reports are coming out that Miami is not interested in Herbert at all, and is more interested in an OT than Tua, with Andrew Thomas being the name floated around.  This means one of a few different things:

1.  Miami wants Tua, smokescreen!
2.  Miami wants Love and is drafting the best OT at 5
3.  Miami wants Herbert (ew), smokescreen!
4.  Miami doesn't want any QB at all and will spend all picks on other positions

So, no one really knows, which means Grier is doing his job.

You can't believe anything the next few days until it actually happens. For argument's sake, I think the Herbert love has been a smokescreen by us so that the Chargers don't try to jump ahead or Tua. It's Tua or Bust for us. If we don't want to trade up to ensure Tua, we certainly aren't going to trade up for Jordan Love. If he falls to us at 18 then that's a different story but it's unlikely he gets past Oakland.

If a team leaps ahead of us for Tua, I think we either draft Thomas or entertain trade down offers. I have no idea where our franchise QB will be coming from if this happens but I don't know if we just take a QB because we need one. May have to just hope that the holder of the #1 pick in 2021 doesn't need a QB. That's usually pretty rare.

Miami chose one player coming off an injury (Dante Culpepper) over another player coming off an injury (Drew Brees).  Who's to say Tua isn't the next Dante Culpepper???  Or the next Dion Jordan.  There's no way NE gets Tua, so stop that scare tactic.

And maybe Miami gets a team to jump up to the #5 pick so they can get a QB, giving Miami even more picks.

You would rather make a mistake going for it than being too cautious and watching other people succeed because of it. It would suck to draft Tua and he can't stay on the field but not nearly as bad as drafting Herbert and watching Tua make 8 Pro Bowls.

I've seen a couple other comments like this in other forums and after a bit of thought I realized this is actually not a good strategy. In Baseball "swinging for the fences" is a tactic that you employ when you are up against the ropes. For example if you're down by a run in the bottom of the ninth with nobody on and 2 outs, absolutely swing for the fences. You have nothing to lose as you are most likely going to lose anyway, might as well go high risk, high reward and hope you get lucky. On the other hand the time to just try to make contact to get on base is when the game is still very much up for grabs, say middle of the 5th inning, you're down by a couple but there are no outs and have a couple runners on base. That is when it makes the most sense to simply go up there trying to get a hit and get a rally started. 1 hit probably scores a run and puts another runner on base, you might actually get a couple of hits and score 3 or 4 and take the lead with a big inning.

Now let's compare that with the Dolphins situation. They are definitely not out of it. Maybe swinging for the fences would have made sense before the last year when they had a bunch of overpriced players, not a lot of draft capital nor a lot of cap space and they were going nowhere. Yeah, they needed a home run then, but then all that changed last year. They dumped all their expensive players, got a ton of cap space in return and turned a couple of players into a boat load of draft picks and then to top it all off they actually looked decent in the last half of last year. Then they went out in free agency and filled a lot of holes with just solid players. No, this is not the time to be swinging for the fences, this is the time to play for a big inning. This is the time to keep putting runners on base and keep moving them around with hits. 1 solid draft choice followed by another. They don't need any home runs, they just need a bunch of solid players. That's what you do when you are still in the game, not swing for the fences. It's tempting to swing for the fences when you haven't had a lot of success, but the Dolphins had their first taste of a bit of success at the end of last year with Flores. Time to keep that momentum going, not time for an inning killing double play because you were swinging for the fences.

To be clear: you are talking about a team that has had a total of 3 winning seasons in the past 15 years.

In that same time frame, MIA has passed on (as in: had a clear path to acquire in front of several other interested teams) two first-ballot HOF QBs (Rodgers, Brees) and one other possible HOF QB (Ryan).  In all three scenarios, MIA was making the safe, conservative choice by passing on them.

MIA has been trying to  play small ball and move the runners around the bases for nearly two decades.  This is an opportunity to get an elite #1-overall-type talent in a position of need with the #5 pick.  Like Laremy Tunsil, this is the type of lucky break successful teams take advantage of.

The fact that Tua may fall to the Dolphins is a miracle, not a curse.

And if I were as certain that Tua alone would be the savior of the Dolphins as you are I would agree with you, but I'm not. No QB is. Brady is not the ONLY reason that Patriots have had the success they have had, it goes MUCH deeper then that. They won 11 games with a backup QB. No, it's not the QB ALONE that determines the success/failure of your team. Once you realize this it puts everything into the proper perspective.

I actually feel the Dolphins have already changed their fortunes...by bringing in Coach Flores. Yes, I realize it's only been 1 year and it may all fall apart next year, but it's not just that they had some success, it's the way he did it. By instilling the notion that you don't have to have a bunch of talent to simply play your position and play it right. Not make stupid mistakes. If there is a mistake, quickly forget about it and keep playing. Make your own luck. Get on board or get out of town. Bring in a couple of players in free agency that you believe in and fit your system, not that have necessarily been great on other teams. Sculpt your offense and defense to your players strengths. Create a gameplan for the opponent and make sure your players can execute it, etc. This is what I'm banking on going forward, not the QB. The problems the Dolphins have had over the last 20 years has been a lack of great coaching, not a lack of great QB play. That's my belief. I could be wrong.

I'm confident he won't succeed anywhere. I went on record saying he will never play a full season.

Is anyone else bothered by the IDK? It's an anonymous poll about a draft pick on the favorite team for most of us and it is around the corner.  Get off the fence.

I'll go the opposite route on that. I think he'll stay healthy. I don't generally buy the injury prone stuff unless it's the same type of injury (or repeat) or directly tied to style of play. IMHO, only the latter really applies to Tua and I feel there's a good chance he can stay healthy in the NFL.

How can you not draft a guy that has a quicker release than Marino?  It's like the stars are aligning for us TO draft Tua.

Because it's hype put out there to raise Tua's draft stock.

Basically, this argument boils down to "Why draft a QB?"

He won 2 fewer games than the previous year's coach, while posting the worst point differential in the league.  I'll hold off on the accolades for Flores.

No, it boils down to why gamble on a player?

While completely flipping the roster. Most people didn't think he'd win 2 games.

But if Brady is not the ONLY reason NE has been successful, and the important part is actually just The Patriot Way, why "gamble" on Justin Herbert or Jordan Love, either?  Why draft any QB? Just draft a bunch of other positions and pick up Connor Cook or Joe Webb in free agency (or just keep the QBs you already have).

The argument you are making is that the QB is not that important and should not be expected to turn around the franchise.  But that is not an argument to draft Herbert or Love over Tua; that is an argument not to draft any QB at all.

I'm not arguing to draft Herbert, I'm arguing they should pick the best player available. If that happens to be Herbert fine, pick him, but if you think there's another player that would help the team more, pick him. I have no problem with skipping a QB with the #5 pick. In fact if you will recall originally I wanted Miami to take Herbert at #18 and take someone else at #5, but as Herbert moved up the board that became impossible. They need a QB as Fitzpatrick is not the future though and unless they think Rosen is they need a QB somewhere although it could be next year. I'm ok with waiting a year as well. Just don't reach for a guy. I think taking Tua at #5 is a reach now. If he drops and you can pick him up later, then it would make more sense to me. That would be the scenario that you are talking about where he becomes a gift. He's not a gift at #5, not with the red flags he has now. A hit on a bong was peanuts compared to the red flags that Tua is carrying.

Been reading the Dolphins would like to move up to #3. Isiah Simmons anyone? Would LOVE that pick. That's better then either Herbert or Tua in my opinion.

Yes       -9 (50%)
No       -6 (33.3%)
I don't know       -3 (16.7%)

Total Voters: 18
So half the people in here are happy, 33% are mad, and 3 people have no idea in hell how they feel!  :D

I made the poll and put "I don't know" and I also selected it.

I'm interested in other people's opinions, but since I don't watch college football, I literally don't know who Tua is.  I've never seen him before, much less watched him play, much much less watched him play in comparison to other players.  My vote would only serve to skew the results.  I think that not having an opinion on something where you have no knowledge of the choices is OK.

You can't do that on the internet. In this world you are supposed to be an expert on everything and if you're not someone will let you know pretty quickly.  :D

I would classify my feelings as disappointed rather than mad. Especially seeing that San Diego chose Herbert with the next pick. I guess we'll find out who made the right pick.

I'm not mad either, I just would have preferred Herbert.  The tough thing about comparisons is that I don't think Herbert will do nearly as well with SD, compared to how well I think he would have done in Miami.  If Miami's draft picks this year pan out I could see an 8 or 9 win season, and that's without quality RB's or WR's.  Hopefully, Miami can pick up a cast off or two from other teams that have drafted RB's or WR's.

He's our guy now. I hope to be proven wrong on this one.