The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

Well, I think it's pretty obvious that this is the biggest question. 

Will Fitzpatrick be re-signed?

Will they put all the eggs in the Tua basket?

Will they draft another quarterback and have a competition with that quarterback and Tua?

I hope Fitzpatrick comes back, but not sure he will. Miami sure could use him to backup Tua.

Tua deserves another year, but he's got to look better next year hopefully with a few more weapons or Miami is still searching for their QB.

They should not draft a QB this year. If you're not convinced about Tua after next year then draft another QB.

If we had an opportunity for Lawrence I would do it in a heartbeat, as is I don’t think any other QB warrants the third pick.

Hopefully with some more weapons and a better line and what will hopefully be a more normal offseason and training camp will put him back on track.

I don’t think he should have started this year at all. That situation was a mess.

Tua is fine he just needs help. People were claiming Josh Allen a bust in year one because of all his mistakes and horrible passing. With an actual off season and a couple of receivers who will catch the ball and some sort of a running game he will look like a brand new guy. He’s smart as hell.

This is the correct answer.  Tua's a great teammate and he's smart, but right now, his confidence is low and he's afraid to make a mistake, feeling like it's on his shoulders.

another off-season with workouts, more reps with the WRs, NOT being in a pandemic, etc will go a long way.  I think the success of Herbet and Burrows, really threw the spotlight on him to perform.

Next year will be the year to properly evaluate him.

Fins Up!!!!!!!!!!!!

It’s pretty sad that Buffalos back up WRs are better than our starters. I so would have loved for us to have drafted Gabe Davis. Besides going to my high school that guy is very talented on a team of superstar receivers

right now, the WR has to be addressed.  Parker, IMO underperformed this season after the season he had last season.  Fell into the injury bug AGAIN. and this is 2 years in a row that Williams has not finished the season.

You can't move forward counting on these guys for the future IMO.  Got to make a splash either in FA or the Draft. 

Ah I appreciate your optimism. Not all quarterbacks have a great first year. There’s still time.

I've said this before - I would seriously investigate trading both first rounders and Tua to Jacksonville for Lawrence.

No way, not after just one year of Tua with a shitty O-Line and even worse receiving corps.

I would at least look into it. I doubt they would take it, maybe with 2 more second rounders. I don’t know but it is worth exploring if Lawrence really is the best QB prospect since Luck.

Can we make a deal with Lady Luck?

I think Miami now has the title of most pathetic team in the NFL now that the Browns have made the playoffs.

We are better than the Browns.

The Browns have made the playoffs more recently than the Dolphins

I would rather have had the Jets' season than ours

no way they don’t pick Lawrence. The city is extremely excited and is already in motion to help build better facilities. Once they locked up getting Lawrence their owner Kahn became the most influential person in Jax. I heard negotiations immediately started going his way. They don’t want them to leave now.

that’s pretty dumb. We exceeded all expectations. Just because yours wasn’t realistic doesn’t mean we didn’t have a great season. It was fun to root for the Dolphins this year even without all the pieces on offense.

You guys are letting the sting of getting the snot beat out of the Dolphins today lead you to make some ridiculous comments.  Nobody is going to trade or give up on a the 5th overall pick in a draft after one season.  Not even one full season.  And a season where he had no offseason work because he was recovering from major surgery and he had no pre season because of the covid shutdown.  This kind of nonsense from you guys is why I sarcastically say "Super Bowl" after every Dolphins victory and "this team sucks!" after every Dolphins loss.  Because that is what a lot of you do for real.  

Spitting facts

I just want to make the playoffs. And there were FOUR CHANCES to make the playoffs this year and they failed at all four.  Is the universe out to get our football team?

 10-6 is a very successful season and a huge cornerstone to continue to build on. Even if we had backdoored our way into the playoffs somehow, we would have gotten worked and bounced. Making the playoffs is meaningless if you have no chance to win the conference or a shot at the SB.
There is so much positive to take forward.
But if you want to be Downer Dolphins fan, put on your black clothes, and go listen to Morrissey at the mall food court.
Personally I have the most optimism going into the offseason than I have had for years.

Excellent points. I am optimistic going into the offseason. I still have concerns about Tua, but we will have to see what a more "normal" off-season, training camp, and pre season show.

Agreed. I know there will be a lot of talk about it during the offseason, but it is just too early to give up on Tua. He did really disappoint this season while all the other 2020 Draft QBs did well, but he had a lot going against him. If we are in this same position next year, then a more serious talk is needed about his future but not right now.

That's because your an idiot.  Sorry to be so harsh but this is one of the dumbest things you have ever said.  To say you would rather have a team that is devowed of talent and no coach, and literally stunk all season, versus a team that exceeded the expectations of EVERYONE with a good core of young players, and a good coach is just beyond belief.

Miami is more pathetic than the Jets, Giants, Lions, Bengals, Houston and half of the rest of the league?

I'll just pretend that was a massive typo or something...because I don't actually believe that you're braindead.

...except that Tua's development has clearly been impacted by Fitz's presence.  When CIN was getting waxed by BAL and PIT, Burrow didn't get pulled.  He threw for 183 yards with 1 INT against the Ravens and stayed in the full game.  So what's the difference between that and Tua?

There's a reason why images like this exist:

(http://www.thedrawplay.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/2018-06-26-RyanFitzpatrick.png)

You guys are insisting that it's different THIS time and I'm telling you that it's not.  Maybe Tua is the franchise savior, maybe he isn't.  But MIA shouldn't go down the same route as EVERY OTHER TEAM that's signed Fitz.

I agree Tua's development has clearly been impacted by Fitzy's presence, for the BETTER I might add.  Whether Tua becomes a franchise QB we will have to wait a couple years and see.

Which "four chances to make the playoffs" did the Dolphins fail at?  They lost SIX games this season.

If you're talking specifically about the Week 17 possibilities, the Dolphins did not take the field in Cleveland, Indianapolis, or Cincinnati.  MIA failed ONE chance to make the playoffs, in Buffalo.

Let's do this team by team.  We are going to use 2002 realignment as our starting point.  Miami has made the playoffs twice in that span and not won a playoff game.

Jets:  Playoffs in 2002, 2004, 2006, 2009, 2010.  2 AFC title game appearances  = better than Miami
Giants:  Won two Super Bowls = Better than Miami
Lions:  I guess they are comparable to Miami, with three playoff appearances to Miami's two, but still slightly better
Bengals: Have made the playoffs seven times, including five in a row = Better than Miami
Texans: Six playoff appearances and four playoff victories, including one last year.  I'd gladly trade away every pick my team had to make the playoffs.  = Better than Miami

It's also the way they lose.  How, as my friend told me, they get your hopes up, and dash them.  It happens all the time.  It happened in 2012, 2013, 2014, 2017, 2018, and this year.

2012: They lose two games because Carpenter misses field goals, including one in OT
2013: They score a dramatic victory over NE, and then lose their final two games.  Not mention several other winnable games that they choked.     
2014: They choke away several fourth quarter leads.
2017: They again defeat NE, but then collapse
2018: They pull off a miracle, but then collapse
2020: They pull off another miracle, but then collapse, and Lady Luck abandons them.

If "making the playoffs" is a measure of success, I guess it's a good thing that you picked the season after MIA had made the playoffs 5 straight times (and won 3 playoff games in that span) as your starting point!

A coincidence, I assure you.

You don’t become a better team by getting rid of a better player so a weaker player doesn’t have competition for the starting job.

Either Tau can earn the starting job with Fitz on the roster or he can’t. 

Name the last first-year (or even second-year) starting QB who repeatedly got benched if he was trailing in the 4th quarter, and used this experience to become a Pro Bowl player or SB champion.

Again, if Flores thinks Fitz gave the team a better chance to win (and winning this year is the primary objective), then Fitz should have been starting until he played himself out of the job.  By putting Tua in early with handcuffs on, Tua never gets a chance to truly learn.  He's conservative for 3 quarters and then gets benched if the team isn't leading... and yet somehow, we're surprised when Tua is asked to mount an aggressive comeback and doesn't know what to do.

Flores is showing the hallmarks of a Belichick disciple: proving that he's the Smartest Person In The Room by "starting Tua" on an arms-length leash, instead of letting him take his lumps like Peyton, Eli, Mayfield, or even Burrow and Herbert.

  On a side note, how does this year NOT prove that BB is an incompetent moron?

I never thought of it that way but it makes a lot of sense. No wonder Tua didn't make any mistakes until this week, because he wasn't trying to win, just trying not to lose.

Yes it is, and if you peek over the edge of the flat Earth, you can see the universe there, scheming...

It only matters if you pick the wrong QB. If you pick the right QB this doesn't matter. Not at all. Chris Simms was right. I was right. You were wrong. Simple as that. Tua's still gonna be a good QB, he just won't ever be Herbert and we could have had him. That sucks.

Well he sure took his lumps on Sunday. Let's see how he responds. If you want him to take his lumps then everyone needs to quit making excuses for him. It was Fitz. It was the receivers. It was Chan. Whatever. It was Tua. Let's hope he can get better.

You don't know this.  I know you have a hard on for Herbert, but lets see how these guys careers pan out first shall we?

Was Tannehill the "wrong QB," or was he coached incompetently?  How do you feel about his immediate success the moment he left MIA?

Again, you guys don't really seem to see how bad this is.

How many other rookie QBs were given ZERO LOSSES worth of slack before being benched for "performance"?

Had I known that Flores would coach like this, I wouldn't have cared whether the Dolphins picked Tua or Herbert, because it wouldn't have mattered.

Can you imagine if Zac Taylor had yanked Burrow in the 4th quarter during each of CIN's many losses?  Is the reason why he didn't because the Bengals don't have Ryan Fitzpatrick on their roster?

Maybe I don't know it, but I'm 99% convinced of it. I've only ever seen 1 other guy have a rookie year that reminded me of what Herbert did this year and his name was Dan Marino. That's how sure I am that Herbert is special. I suspected he might be special coming out of college but even I underestimated what he would do in the NFL. Now that I've seen it, I'm convinced. Now I'm not saying that he's going to be great every single year, not even Marino was terrific every single year, but you already see that he has something special about him that you just don't see very often. He's going to be one of the best year in and year out for a decade. Maybe not the best, but one of the best. I am convinced of that. You may need to wait to be convinced, but I don't.  As far as Tua, yes it's possible that he will be special too, but you saw no indications of that this year. He looked good at times, but never did he wow you.

As I said when Tannehill was with Miami he didn't have the support he needed to succeed. I always liked Tannehill and thought he could have been a winner in Miami if given the support. He never was. Not on the offensive side of the ball and not on the defensive side of the ball. I was not shocked that he did better in Tennesse. They had a better team than Miami, it's no surprise Tannehill was able to produce better results there than in Miami.

Tua was given plenty of support in Miami this year on the defensive side of the ball. I'll grant you that he didn't have a lot of support on the offensive side of the ball but he didn't elevate anyone's play either. Gisecki played better when Fitzpatrick was in the game. I felt the same about Parker. If Tua was really that good, he should have been able to do something with those guys in there. More than what he did anyway.

It's funny Spider you keep blaming Flores whereas all I read is that Flores should be given coach of the year consideration. I don't see them saying that about Herbert's coach.

2018
Baker Mayfield - 3,725 passing yards, surpassed Peyton Manning and Russell Wilson for most touchdowns thrown in a rookie season with 27, 14 INTs
Josh Allen - 2,074 passing yards, 10 TDs, 12 INTs

2019
Baker Mayfield - 3,827 passing yards, 22 TDs, 21 INTs
Josh Allen - 3,089 passing yards, 20 TDs, 9 INTs

2020
Baker Mayfield - 3,367 passing yards, 25 TDs, 8 INTs
Josh Allen - 4,544 passing yards, 37 TDs, 10 INTs

Baker Mayfield had a record breaking rookie season, but who is the better QB now, Baker or Josh Allen?  Herbert had a phenomenal season, and broke records himself, I can't deny that, but like I said, you don't know if Herbert is the better QB yet give it time.

oh, and while we're comparing rookie seasons....

Josh Allen - 2,074 passing yards, 10 TDs, 12 INTs
Tua - 1,814 passing yards, 11 TDs, 5 INTs in two less games than Allen

Haven't you heard, Rosen never got a chance.

I find all of these comparison to Herbert and Lawrence to be moot.

We didn't draft Herbert and we're not going to be able to draft Lawrence, so who gives a shit?

Tua is the pick we made, we owe it to ourselves to let that pan out.  You can't do that if Fitz is waiting to come in at the end of every game we're losing.  Tua hasn't had a fair shot, either.  He needs a preseason, mini-camps, to build a rapport with the team, the ability to make mistakes, to play from behind, etc.  It doesn't mean he's going to be a start; you just gotta let it play out.

And Herbert outdid all these numbers this year. Even when Baker Mayfield was putting up those impressive numbers in 2018, I still didn't think he was special. I think Herbert is.

If Tua starts playing like Josh Allen this year, I'll be the right there cheering him on, but unfortunately until then I need to see it. I haven't seen it. I didn't see it at Alabama and I didn't see it this year. What I saw at Alabama was a guy who was protected by a good offensive line who was throwing to wide receivers that were wide open and who never trailed in a game because his defense was the best in the country. I think you put any above average QB in that position you will see similar things. Maybe not as good, but pretty good. I think Tua will get better, but I think he's limited by just how good he can be. I think his ceiling is well below Herberts. He doesn't have a tremendous arm. He doesn't have tremendous running ability. His accuracy wasn't as good as expected when trying to throw into tight coverage. Yeah, he's shown the ability to hit a guy when he's open, let's see him now throw a guy open. Yeah he's shown some things, but not enough things for me to consider that he can ever be special. Time will tell.

Maybe the question should be who is the better QB Josh Allen or Justin Herbert? His stats were close to Allens this year. You keep saying that you don't know what Tua will do next year or the year after and you're absolutely right I don't. But you don't know what Justin Herbert is going to do next year. He might have a year like Dan Marino had after his rookie year where he rewrote the record books. You might see Herbert throw 45 TD's and 5,000 yards next year.

I'm willing to give Tua another year, but he needs to show improvement and I don't care whether Fitz is there to back him up or not, he needs to make it happen. Competition brings out the best in champions. If Tua can't thrive because Fitzpatrick is on the roster then Tua isn't the guy we all hoped he would be end of story.

The irony is that Rosen was given more slack than Tua has been.

Great points Dave.  I would add that Tua was coming off a severe injury, and Miami was starting a couple rookie offensive lineman.  With a shortened practice year behind them I would expect that next year Tua will start beginning to end, unless he gets injured.  And that more, if not all, of the playbook will be open to him.  I just hope he has the arm to throw the deep ball, because this year he seemed like he was underthrowing receivers and they had to come back to the ball; could have been by design.

Don't forget that he barely had any talent to play with. Our running backs were garbage for the first 14 weeks and only Parker was okay. Give him actual weapons next year with a more experience O-Line, a preseason and more work with Gailey and then see what he can do. If he doesn't show solid improvement next season, then we're in trouble.

I would like to see Tua be allowed to sink or swim next season, but if Fitz is still on the roster, I expect that we will see the exact same type of coaching decisions.

Nice article on how little help Tua got from receivers:

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article247466865.html

30th in YAC (Parker second worst of players with 100+ catches)
Parker's average separation from defender was tied for worst and Gesicki's was worst among tight ends.
Dolphins receivers had the highest drop-rate in the league with Tua throwing, dropping 18 of 290 passes.*
Dolphins receivers dropped > 10% of deep balls by Tua, compared to ZERO of Fitz' deep balls.

Pass protection was equally poor, which is perhaps not surprising when you start 3 rookies on the offensive line for most games, with the line consistently scoring in the bottom 10 (and even worse if you adjust by pass attempts, which was not done in the article) in pressures and sacks.

The offensive line was below average at run blocking, ranking 19th in yards before contact on runs, aided not at all by our running backs who averaged a league worst 1.4 yards after contact and a 3rd worst 19 broken tackles all year (compared to 49 by the Vikings' running backs).

(*Personally, I dislike drop stats. Having actually done real scientific work on them a decade or so ago, I can attest that we found that official figures varied wildly in what was considered a drop from team to team, stadium to stadium, and even week to week with other factors held constant. We were not able to find any objective or even reasonably consistent subjective measures that could reliably reproduce anything even remotely resembling the official numbers. Even such a "noisy" data source might be relevant when looking at a total season, but we weren't ultimately able to make such a determination due to persistent team biases over the range of data we were looking at.)

Great post, I'm already sharing it with the haters lol.

How was Gesicki the worst when it comes to separating form the defender when he had a good year? Those two things seem to contradict each other.

I am not sure if this proves the receivers are bad.  Sounds like Fitz throws a more catchable ball than Tau.

Fitz doesn't exactly throw lasers, he throws touch jump balls to Gesicki and Parker who both can jump over a building. 

There's an extremely small sample size when it comes to deep passes, which makes "luck" a probable cause. I certainly remember to very easy dropped balls on long throws by Tua. As mentioned, though, you never know how a given throw is going to be charted in the official stats.

Anyway, considering the small sample size, it would be easier to go back and just look at those passes (we're taking less than 70 throws total for Tua and Fitz combined).

He had a good year because he was thrown to a lot. As for separation, maybe he was just more open than the receivers? Even though he wasn't as open on average as other tight ends.

The point being, of course, that less separation makes it harder on quarterbacks, thereby indicating that our quarterbacks (Tia in particular) might be expected to do better if the guys catching the ball could get at least average open. It's not meant to disparage our receivers. Routes, route combos, and other aspects of play design all impact how open a receiver gets.

So basically....when Fitz is QB Gesicki and Parker are dynamic receivers that can make acrobatic catches of poorly thrown balls, but the moment Tau steps on the field they become bums that drop balls that bounce off their hands.   Not buying.

Well, Brady stepping on the field makes other coaches turn into incompetent morons and players do insanely stupid things, so there is a precedent for it.

Rumors swirling that Fitz is unlikely to be back and it would be mutual. Fitz wants to play and the team doesn't want Tua looking over his shoulder all year. We will probably end up with a McNown or something and that's fine.

We all know Fitzmagic runs out when it is used too much so this is best for everyone involved.

^ I love Fitz and I hope he gets a chance to play elsewhere next year. He's the best backup in the league and would be a better starter than many. Except for that last year with the Jets, he's been a solid (if unspectacular and somewhat inconsistent) quarterback for over a decade.

He was a good bit better then solid this year. He was actually quite good considering the circumstances.

Sure, but let's not get carried away. He had two games against the putrid Jets, one against the equally putrid Jaguars - and one against the 49ers playing their 4th string guys or whatever. That's 4 of the 7 games he started this season. The 3 other games were losses (Patriots, Bills, Seahawks) in which he threw 0 touchdowns to 5 interceptions combined in two of them, only showing any kind of life in the Bills game. I will say that his "closing" effort in the Raiders game was great.

Like I said, I love Fitz. He seems like a really great guy, I love the energy and joy he shows and he's possibly the best backup quarterback around. But nothing I've seen this season (or the rest of his career) would want me to install him as the starter. With Fitz, we'd go on a roller coaster 8-8 season, guaranteed. He'd look awesome in blowout wins against scrubs, fail horribly against really good teams, and oscillate between FitzMagick and FitzTragick against the average teams.

I don't put a ton of stock into awards, but the fact that Fitzy won the Don Shula Leadership Award as voted by his teammates says a good bit about him too. 

Tua is the man.

This draft should be about giving him more deep targets to throw to - we just have to find better for him than Jakeem Grant when both Parker & Williams are injured.