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The whole concept of Presidential Pardons is some bullshit in my opinion. 

Don’t disagree.  They have a legitimate purpose, but are too easily abused.

Hopefully, we will see a constitutional amendment to either eliminate or limit that power.  At minimum exclude family members, crimes committed to benefit the president, acts by public officials, and acts that are against our democratic processes.

Yeah, I probably should have added that they probably do have a legit purpose.  But like you said, they get abused really badly. 

There are some things that I'm just not gonna get caught up in the weeds with.

One of them is presidential pardons.  I think they are a good thing, in general.  It's nice to see someone that has served time and some leniency for cases especially where we've moved on with social norms.  Or where you think someone broke a law but their heart was in the right place or whatever.

I agree that they're abused and it's a way to take care of your own.  It's just the nature of it, I guess, so I'm not gonna lose my shit.

Of these Trump pardons, the Blackwater stuff is the worst, because I think there's a larger message there.

But the Steve Bannon-type stuff, I don't like it, but I understand it and I'm not gonna hold it against Trump.

Pardoning himself (or even pardoning those directly involved in things he's involved in) is no bueno, because there's conflict of interest stuff.  I'd like to see the laws more clearly defined.

In fact, I think some of the lessons we learned from the Trump administration is that a lot of these laws are based on decorum or tradition, but that havne't really been tested.  We need to recognize that stuff and make changes: you shouldn't be able to appoint someone to oversee the election, since you're in the election.  ...stuff like that.  It's just an opening for corruption.  I think that's a bi-partisan thing that we should iron out more clearly.  ...timelines for hearing Justices so you can't just not take it to the Senate for 4 years.  This stuff could happen under the law and the only reason it doesn't is because people haven't done it yet.

If I can derail this thread with a related idea, just like I'm not going to put effort into Presidential Pardons, I'm not going to get caught up in vaccine rollout, either, in terms of who gets the shots.

There are definitely arguments to be made for or against old people vs. medical professionals vs. essential workers vs. elites and politicians vs. people who have connections in the medical field vs. locals and visitors.  I get it.  But. I. Don't. Give. A. Fuck.

I just want the shot in the arm of as many people, as fast as possible.

Desantis just ordered that only Floridians can get the Florida shots.  Some are praising him for helping out locals.  Some are criticizing him for waiting until Trump is leaving to do something he should've done from the start.  Some claim he's just pandering for votes.  And I just don't care.  Get the shots out, in any way you deem fit and you won't get pushback from me.

So a 75 yo snowbird who has both owns a house in both Florida and NY but uses NY as their primary residence can’t get vaccinated until they travel back to NY?  That is just straight up evil.

just desantis being desantis¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I mean...I get that argument, but I also see how people might not want a bunch of snowbirds specifically coming here to get vaccinated when they don't pay into our tax system for distribution.  ...or people flooding from the Georgia border or whatever.

Like I said, I don't care....vaccinate whoever, in whatever order -- I'm not sure if it's for the best or not, but I'm not choosing to put my fight there.

I agree people shouldn’t travel during a pandemic to get vaccinated.  So no giving out vaccines to people on a one week vacation to Disney World. 

But forcing someone who has been sheltering in place in their Miami condo since February 3 of last year forgoing seeing family or going out to travel back to their primary residence up north to get a vaccine is just wrong.  And yes there are snowbirds who skipped the northern summer migration because of covid.

The problem with Pardons/Clemency is that there are always a few that are egregious, and they get the headlines.  Some have already served their full sentence, or have served a great deal of time in jail, so I don't have a big problem with those.  It's the ones that haven't served at all, or only a very short time, that I have a problem with.

My experience is that snowbirds change their residences in most cases for tax purposes.

This...exactly.  If a specific case is reviewed and it is determined that they have good cause to be forgiven, then ok... But pardoning a criminal who really should be in jail because of their crimes...leave them there.

The whole "you're a friend, you support me, therefore, you are pardoned" bullshit...that should go.

In terms of which pardons are appropriate, I think it really comes down to motives, in many cases.  What you did was wrong, but either your heart was in the right place, or the social narrative has outlived your sentence.

Just two kinds of examples off the top of my head:
- Let's say that someone got a big sentence for some kind of injustice, like a labor or environmental issue. ...and they were involved in a riot that burned something down or whatever.  But 20 years later, we realize that though their methods were wrong, ultimately history proved them right.

Or:
- Let's say someone got a big sentence for growing and selling weed....and it was during an unreasonable, rigid sentencing period, so you gave someone a third strike and put them in jail for 40 years for what is now a legal, and seen as a relatively harmless act.


...that kind of stuff, mostly.

^^^ Any American in jail for simple possession of marijuana should be pardoned and released immediately...as long as that is their only charge.

Obviously.  I was thinking more about dealing.  Neighborhood weed dealers got big time.  Mandatory sentencing didn't do any favors.

This right here


This too, especially because it's a neighborhood weed dealer and not a multination drug cartel head.


My brother was in the pot business for a few years in Seattle.  Was licensed and managed a dispensary.  He left the business because it is too high risk as weed is still illegal at the federal level.  Because of this, he was subjected to the following:

- Inability to deposit money from the business into a bank account
- Inability to obtain insurance for the business
- Inability to have any recourse if he was robbed or embezzled from
- The DEA could still legally raid his shop

It's too bad, because he would allow a local girl scout chapter to set up their cookie table in front of his dispensary and on any given Saturday, they would sell well over 100 boxes of cookies.  When I heard about that, I was thinking of canvasing the area, and possibly putting some money into opening a doughnut shop across the street.

Weed (I don't smoke, by the way) has been  subject to a big misinformation campaign.  My parent's generation just didn't understand it.

Even when we talk about dealing:  it's not really the drugs that matter.  It's not the production, it's not the distribution.  It's the violence.  It's the bodies.  So, in that sense, if there is some guy connected to marijuana that's responsible for beheading rivals or whatever to send a message to other cartels, yeah...I get it.

But the guy who stands at the corner...or even the guy who is growing it -- not really the spirit of the law.

A lot of people don't understand it.  I used to smoke it when I was younger.  I don't anymore.  I know quite a few of my employees do.  I do new hire and random drug testing but I don't test for weed.  My only policy is that they don't show up to work under the influence.  This job involves a lot of hard work, so if they choose to unwind with it when they go home for the day, that's totally up to them.

Not to mention there are many ordinary business expenses that they can't take a tax deduction for because it's an illegal enterprise under Federal Law, so they pay a lot more in income taxes than if they were a normal business.

I'm not against weed as much as the smell. I can't stand it and hate to be around people who have just smoked as they smell like skunk ass. It's gotten bad in recent years and even to the point that when my wife and I are riding our motorcycles we play which car in front of us is the smell coming from? BTW it's typically pretty obvious. I wish they would make weed that doesn't stink.

I almost never agree with you. But I'm with you here 100%. You have never posted something more true than this!

My neighbors smoke all the time and just walking outside to walk a dog and getting the waft of this is grossest smell.

Yes, weed comes without the pot-smell. They're called "Edibles" and "Flavored oils."

My neighbor smokes both marijuana (which I am fine with the smell) and cigars, which I believe smell like the ass-end of a very sick goat.

Can I just say that I'm curious how you even know what the ass-end of a very sick goat smells like?

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