The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

When we gave him an extension, at the time he was the highest paid CB or one of the top 3. I forget exactly. However, his contract was dwarfed by Maxwell and he is supposedly unhappy about it. He was great again this season.

Do we tear up the contract he just signed 2 years ago, trade him or tell him to deal with it since he is still paid handsomely? Doesn't seem like our M.O. to rip up his contract already but we don't want him holding out either and creating a distraction. At this point in the offseason, could we even get good value for him if we went the trade route? He is worth multiple 1st rounders to me, so anything less we shouldn't even consider it.

I say trade him if he wants to hold out and we'll see how Iggy does year 2.  He was a really raw prospect, but I hear he's been leaps and bounds better, really working his ass off.  Plus you're right, we could get multiple 1st rounders for Howard. 

Thing is, who else but a contender would pay that price for him? And if they are a contender, we're talking late 1st rounders now. I think I would only trade him for a Godfather/Idiot Bill O'Brien offer. I am more inclined to tell him to suck it up or just tweek the deal a little. You can't be the highest paid player every year when someone else gets more money.

At a certain level, you cannot get better by trading away Pro Bowlers for draft picks every year.

Buy low sell high.  Howard probably doesn't have another year like last season.

That's a great strategy if your plan is to become the Oakland A's of the NFL:

1) draft talented prospects
2) develop these prospects into elite players
3) trade these players to playoff teams for more draft picks (and/or prospects)
4) use your newly-acquired draft picks to perform step 1 (or prospects to perform step 2)

Agreed. However, with his injury and off field history it wouldn't hurt to listen to an offer IF he is making it clear that he will sit out regular seaosn games for a new contract. Otherwise, they should either stand their ground or tack on n extra year or something. No way do we give him the highest CB contract in the league 2 years after doing it. He isn't starving.

It's not a rumor as he officially isn't there. He wants to get paid to be the highest in the league but he doesn't want to give the money back from when he didn't play the year before. Kind of funny how that works.

The problem lies with if you pay him what he is worth then it's hard to build in areas of need. Both he and the team have to give a little or else the team will suffer as a whole. Not sure if they can find a decent trade partner but I'm sure that's an option if he wants to be the highest paid in the league. 

I am firmly against redoing his contract just 2 years later, to me that sets a horrible precedent for the rest of the team and it's just too much money to spend on a secondary. I think we are already the league's highest, let's not break our own record.

I am all for keeping him and throwing him a bone where we do that NFL contract magic where he gets more of a signing bonus or guaranteed money but we can't give him a 60% raise just because other people made more money. If it looks like he is going to miss regular seaosn games, then we need to seriously consider trading him and hope that Noah can step up.

From the pre practice media meeting with Flores ...

Flores says renegotiating an extension after the first year of that extension "has never been done before." Flores says he wants all media members to write that the Dolphins love X. "We want to keep him here."

I guarantee you the Dolphins front office is getting calls from every other NFL team saying not to dare open this can of worms and redo his extension after only two years. Flores himself seems to be laying the seeds with the media that this is pretty crazy and unlikely to happen.

Anything can happen in the NFL. Deshaun Watson was favored to be a Dolphin in January, now he may never play again. Maybe we do cave into his demands but right now that seems unlikely. It would hurt the team in other areas as we would have to let some guys walk.

^^^^^ THIS

What an asshat, dude played 5 games in 2019 AFTER he got the BIG contract. did he give that money back cause he didn't produce because of injury or did he keep it?

Show me you can be consistent AFTER this season and we'll talk about contract extension/negotiate.

I would hope that the Dolphins are not receiving phone calls from their competitors asking them not to give more money to a player, as that's the textbook definition of collusion and would force MIA into a position of either having to give Howard more money or potentially become complicit in the collusion.

I don't think they are actually receiving documented phonecalls stating to not pay him, but I'm sure the word is definitely getting to them somehow that the other owners would not like this to happen. You have to imagine they communicate through one form or another about things like this. The owners collude on everything, they all want to win the Superbowl but they want to have control over the players and make money as well.

LOL ... I knew you'd say this. You and your collusion theory. We all know it goes on between players and teams. That's one of them rules that is probably ignored more than it is followed. Kind of like Pat Riley saying about LeBron ... “I would leave the key under the doormat if he would call me and let me know that he’s coming. I would do that, but I doubt very much that key — that key is rusted now,” Riley said (via the Miami Herald). “LeBron, look, he’s one of the greatest of all time, and for four years down here, if we want to go back and remember what those four years were like, it was four years in the Finals, four years of excitement, two world championships with LeBron, Chris Bosh, Dwyane Wade, Ray Allen, Shane Battier, Udonis [Haslem], all of them. It was the best time for the Heat. So I wish him nothing but the best, and if he ever wanted to come back, I’ll put a new shiny key under the mat.”

I was mistaken, he has only played one year of his current extension contract. I thought it was two years. That makes it even more unlikely we renegotiate on a substantial level.

I'm usually on the players side when it comes to getting paid, especially in the NFL, but for this one I am 100% on Miami's side. Every contract is a risk for both parties, whether the player underperforms, outperforms his deal, gets hurt, etc... You take the risk and hope for the best.

Let's suppose, for the sake of argument, that this is true.
Do you personally believe this is a good thing?  Are you in favor of NFL teams doing it if they don't get caught?

That statement got Riley a tampering fine from the league, so it seems like a bad example of a "rule that is ignored."

Really because he sure didn't seem to care about it. Do you think he "tampered" by accident or do you think he just went ahead and ignored the rule and threw it out there?

Maybe he thought he could get away with it?  In any case, the league disagreed.

But back to the other question: do you think it's a good idea for teams to coordinate to avoid paying players?  Are you in favor of teams doing it as long as they don't get caught?

Not addressed to me but I'll give my 2 cents anyway. It is absolutely not okay. In theory, every team is in competition with each other and if Miami wants to do something stupid like renegotiate every 12 months with a player then the other 31 teams should be overjoyed that they hurt their future cap.

However, their business is more money than winning so they will feel this can come back to haunt them down the road with their own players so they would be against Miami doing this.

I'm not concerned about this at all, it's not my money. Steven Ross has plenty of it. I'm done sweating over the finances of billionaire hobbyists.

Pay him, great, don't pay him, ok. We have other players.

If there was no salary cap I wouldn't care either, but there is and this will affect our personnel decisions elsewhere. I don't want to lose Gesicki or Ogbah because Howard wants to renegotiate every year, nor do I want this to become the norm for players going forward. There has to be sopme type of cost certainty when you build a team.

if the owners wanted cost certainty, they'd have an NBA or MLB style contract system where contracts cannot be randomly terminated, and even if a player is released, they're still owed the money. That would stop most of that.

Absolute truth.

The owners don't want cost certainty; they want low costs.  How often do you hear of MLB or NBA players under contract trying to hold out for more money?  You don't.

I am definitely on the players side over 90% of the time, but the NFL is a hard capped league. These contract renegotiations affect the onfield product and that's why I care and don't think we should do this. If this were an uncapped league, let the billionaires spend their money to win. As it stands, I don't want to miss out on future free agents or resigning our own guys because one guy wants to renegotiate every summer.

Nothing about a hard cap prevents guaranteed contracts.

Hell, you can still have year-by-year team options (or player options!) with a guaranteed contract.

I am cool if Xavier just wants his guaranteed money, but if he wants guaranteed money, a higher salary and will do this again next year if someone else makes more, then that is the issue.

In the end, I think a minor compromise will be made. I don't see him sitting out a few games every year for 4 years and I think Miami learned from the Minkah fiasco to not trade away players due to attitude issues unless they are catastrophic.

I think the financial danger to Howard is that if you asking for a pay increase every time you outplay expectations, the first time you underplay expectations, you'd better expect a pay cut (or: to be cut).

As an All-Pro CB, his current expectations are... pretty high.  So if he does manage to get a pay raise here, either he remains an All-Pro (which is hard!) or bad things are going to happen.

^^^

To be fair to us, while his onfield play has been outstanding, he has missed 24 games already in his career due to injury and gotten full pay for it. Extending him was a risk in the first place but we took the chance and it is working out so far. Everyone takes chances with contracts, very few people get exact market value, it's either above or below. Maybe guarantee a few more million as a peace offering but this is a dangerous precedent to set and we should avoid it.

This is a year early.  Next year his salary is not guaranteed so I can understand re-negotiating next year, but not now.  I get that players want guaranteed pay to protect against possible injuries, but teams need to protect themselves also.  I hope he doesn't make a big thing out of this, and just shows up; because it seems like most of the time the players loose out when they sit out a season.

He got a new agent and he is undoubtedly telling him to sit out. The new agent doesn't get a dime from his current deal so he wants it to be renegotiated so he can get paid. At this time, I do not think he sits out regular games or the preseason but it's still early. All I know for sure is that this is Noah's time to step up and show Miami that they can play hardball.

^^^^ THIS

It almost seems like the only way this gets settled is by making a trade. Like Edge mentioned .... the new agent wants his money too and I'm not convinced the Dolphins are ready to do that for him. Hopefully we will get another great 1st round pick for him.

If we trade him, it's for multiple first rounders. He didn't win it, but he was DPOY. Might even ask for a 3rd or 4th rounder on top of that because Xavier has zero leverage. He is signed for 4 years and won't be sitting out games every year, he is basically stuck and we can afford to do whatever is best for the team. We learned from the Minkah debacle, any package for Xavier will be Tunsil level.

*Xavien

Damnit. I know it is Xavien, I am at work when I shitpost about the Dolphins and make typos.

There doesn't appear to have been any serious trade offers for Xavien and I don't think there will be. Not this offseason at this moment in time at least. Any trade offer for him will involve multiple high end draft picks as well as a new contract that will make him the highest paid CB in the NFL. Those are two heavy prices to pay. Combine all that with him being signed for 4 years and Miami has all the leverage. They still may tweek it a bit or tell him to be the DPOY again and they will rework it next offseason but Xavien is almost 100% going to be a Dolphin in Week 1.

I don't see Xavien going anywhere this year.  He's 28, only played all 16 games two out of his five years in the league, and has had a couple knee surgeries.  It's a dream to think any team is dumb enough to give up multiple #1's for him, it isn't going to happen.  He needs to have a good season this year; then next year I can see them re-working his contract so he has guaranteed money.

This could get ugly. Rumor is the team doesn't want draft picks as they are wanting to win now. If we give up X then we are limiting our blitz packages and thus our defense will certainly struggle more than it did last year. We have two shut down corners and need them both to play how we did last season.

The fact that X has no leverage in this situation should limit it's ugliness. There is literally nothing he can do but sitout and NOT get paid and he would have to do that for the next 4 years. We are in "win now" mode and only a Top 5 pick would help us the year we used it so it just makes no sense from our standpoint. If Noah played last year and was lights out, then maybe we could explore a trade but he is a project and a definite downgrade as of right now.

Our answer is very likely "play out the year and we will revisit this next offseason, you have our word". Hope his agent doens't get him Leveon Bell'd.

https://phinphanatic.com/2021/07/01/miami-dolphins-5-creative-trade-scenarios-xavien-howard/

I know that the offseaosn can be slow and writers still need to make content but this is a terrible article. 5 trade scenarios for Xavien and he is being given away in each one. Miami has all the leverage. He is under contract for 4 more years, he won't hold out every year and lose money and Noah is looking great in camp, albeit still a downgrade from the should've been DPOY. Barring any major injuries to the secondary, why cave in and trade him for $.50 on the dollar? I would like to think we learned from the Minkah debacle.

I don't like the first option, the others aren't bad but they should come with 1st round picks.  However, I'm still totally against trading him.  I think he's making a big mistake if he sits out the season, he loses $13 million and you just can never make that money back.  I understand he wants to cash in with the great year he had last year, but Miami would set a bad example by giving in to this blackmail.  It's one thing to do it with Minkah when you aren't expected to win right away, but now Miami is set to win and become a contender over the next couple years.

He wouldn't sit out the season, just the maximum number of games to have it still count as a contract year. However, even that is very unlikely because he would still have 3 years left on his deal. He isn't going to do that every year and cost himself tens of millions. He has no leverage, just an agent who wants to get paid. We will work something out next offseason if he is DPOY again, but even that will be on our terms.

I am absolutely against trading him but if he really does start sitting out games and another team comes by with a Tunsil offer, we have to listen. Especially if Noah is playing well.

Personally, I'm not too concerned if he sits out part of training camp as he is a veteran, knows his job, keeps himself in shape, etc.  I certainly wouldn't want him sitting out any of the regular season though.  And like some of you have pointed out, he doesn't have much leverage so I don't know why he would opt for a long term sit out.  Stranger things have happened though.  We'll see.

NFL Network's Mike Silver reports "there's a lot of trade chatter concerning" Dolphins CB Xavien Howard.

Per Silver, Howard remains unhappy with his contract and wants a new, improved deal despite having four years left on his current one after inking a five-year, $75.25 million extension two offseasons ago. Howard skipped the Dolphins' mandatory minicamp last month and isn't thrilled that he makes less than teammate CB Byron Jones after Howard led the NFL with 10 interceptions last season (Jones had two) and is widely regarded as one of the league's top cover men, in a class alongside Jalen Ramsey. Ramsey signed a five-year, $100 million extension prior to Week 1 last year as the league's highest-paid corner. At $15.05 million per year, Howard is the sixth-highest-paid player at his position, trailing Ramsey, Marlon Humphrey, Tre'Davious White, Darius Slay, and teammate Jones. According to Silver, it will take a first-round pick and more to land Howard, and "several teams" are said to be considering the move. - Rotoworld

Anything less than the Tunsil package and it's a No from me, not like I have a say. We have all the leverage because he is under contract for 4 more years, this isn't his walk year. A 1st rounder and "more" for the DPOY? Absolutely not. Two 1st rounders and then some. Keep in mind, the teams willing to pay this much for one player are probably close to contending right now, teams like the Jaguars and Giants won't be doing this trade, so their draft picks will be in the later rounds. I doubt we get as lucky as we did with Houston collapsing again.

I don't think Miami pulls the trigger on this no matter what the deal is unless they feel Noah can contribute at a high level. We aren't rebuilding anymore, we are contending and if you are losing a player like Xavien, then the backup must be good as well. This can't be all about cap space and draft picks anymore.

That's what everyone thought about Le'veon Bell, yet he ruined his career by sitting out the full year and forcing a trade to the lowly Jets.  If Howard is dumb enough to do this then I say good riddance.  Let him sit out a year and lose $15M, then he can be traded to some lowly team and never get another meaningful contract. 

That's just pie in the sky thinking.  Miami would be lucky to get one 1st rounder for him given his age and injury history.  If he's not on the field at the start of the season he'll never wear a Miami uniform again.

Leveon Bell had one year remaining, Xavien has 4. He won't risk missing out on at least half his pay by sitting out 7-8 games a year for more than one year, and even one is pushing it since no one wants to give a malcontent with bad knees a record breaking deal. He has no leverage and he knows that.

As far as his value goes, despite not winning the award, he was the DPOY. A good team with a desperate need at corner would give good value, it remains to be seen what that is but one 1st rounder ain't cutting it and not if you throw in a 4th either. Our rebuild is over, no need to sacrifice the present for the future anymore.

Bell did not have "1 year remaining."  He completed his contract and refused to sign the franchise tag, sitting out for the entire year rather than sign it.  He was not traded to the Jets; they signed him as a free agent.

Xavien's situation is not comparable to Bell's, at all.

Oops, you're right. I thought I knew that too.

No amount of sitting will get Xavien out of his contract. Best he can do is sit out whatever the maximum number of games he can sit out and still have his contract toll, I believe it is 7. Of course, he doesn't get paid for those and has fines on top of that and is he going to do that for 4 years when his dispute is all financial? He has absolutely no leverage because he just signed a massive extension.

All he can do is hope Miami agrees to rework his deal for some more guaranteed money, wait until next offseason and see if it can be done then(the likeliest option), or sit out and hope Noah falls flat on his face and forces Miami's hand.

Well Bell refused a reported $70M, 5 yr contract, with $33M guaranteed from the Steelers.  He ended up losing a year of pay, then was paid $27M by the Jets for two years, and $1M by the Chiefs last year, for $28M over three years.  If he had signed the Steelers contract, at a minimum he would have made $5M more, plus probably would have had an extra season in there earning another $14M; so his hubris cost him almost $20M.

The contract terms might not be the same, but Xavien is heading down the same path as Bell.  If he sits this year he will lose $12M, gain a reputation in the league for being a malcontent, piss off Flores so he doesn't even want him on the team, and risk ending up on a crappy team where is career will come to an early end (because SB coaches don't want troublesome players on their roster).

There are some similarities but in terms of where they are and were, it is very different. Bell sat out one year to gain his freedom. It was insanely stupid at the time an even worse in hindsight, but it worked. Howard needs to sit out half the season for four straight seasons. It's just not going to happen, no matter how much his agent tells him stupid ideas. He just has to play out the year again, be a beast and Miami will buckle a bit.

Dave Hyde is loudly arguing for keeping him. I fall into a similar camp seeing as we need to win something THIS season.


Hyde: Hey Dolphins, don’t trade Xavien Howard — no matter how many rumors swirl | Commentary
By DAVE HYDE

There are two reasons to make a trade. One is to get a player you want. The other is to get rid of a player you don’t.

Trading Xavien Howard in the manner a rumor du jour has it would reinforce a third reason the Miami Dolphins created in trading Minkah Fitzpatrick: Getting rid of a great player who simply doesn’t want you.

If I run the Dolphins, I don’t trade Howard. I don’t like all the trade rumors, but don’t care the national media is just picking up on a boiling local story for months.

Howard isn’t happy. That’s the story. He’s not happy teammate Byron Jones makes more money than him. He’s not happy the defense is built around him and he’s no longer paid that way. He’s not happy on cornerback island — again, if he’s not paid for it.

Get the money-signed picture?

So nothing has changed since he sat out June practices except the trade rumors have started from every direction. Arizona reportedly wants him — and Bleacher Report proposed second- and fifth-round picks and linebacker Jordan Hicks. New Orleans wants in, too, according to The Athletic. Philadelphia and Cleveland? They’re reportedly interested as well.

The question about every trade is how they replace a star at an impact position to help win now. Howard had a career year last season. Ten interceptions? Locked against the opponent’s top receiver?

That’s the No. 1 reason the Dolphins defense ranked seventh in the league. It’s the first thought as to why they surprised everyone with 10 wins.

The Dolphins led the league with 29 takeaways and 18 interceptions. Howard’s impact towers over those numbers. It was the most impactful defensive performance in the league — the best by a Dolphins cornerback ever.

You don’t trade that. Not now. The case for trading Howard was two years ago at the start of this rebuild. His talent, big money and injury history made him a risky long-term play on a team playing the long term. His value was, well, what the Dolphins got for trading Laremy Tunsil to Houston.

Now he’s the one certified star on this team. You don’t trade that knowing he probably can’t reproduce last season. You don’t do it knowing his full injury history.

You don’t do it because you’re at a point where you actually have to win games — not just show improvement. The rebuild is rebuilt. The Dolphins will be judged like a real NFL franchise this year, not one on training wheels, where everyone says of any good day, “See? It’s working.”

It has problems, too. One is the Dolphins overpaid Jones at cornerback. He’s a good player. He shouldn’t be the highest-paid player at the position. It just calls more into question general manager Chris Grier’s free-agent decisions from last offseason.

Kyle Van Noy, Jordan Howard, Ereck Flowers, Shaq Lawson — you can go down the list of players dumped after one overpaid year. If it’s just money, that’s one thing. If owner Steve Ross wants to spend money, who cares?
But as Howard’s tantrum shows sometimes injecting money into a locker room has a domino effect. He became upset. The easy way out of this is giving Howard more money. But he’s one year into a five-year contract (or two, if you want to count the year it was extended). That’s an awkward precedent to set.

So here we are a week before training camp. Nothing has changed from two months ago — for the trade rumors that aren’t exactly tempting. It would be a player-fueled trade similar to Fitzpatrick, who was unhappy with his role.

Fitzpatrick, 24, is a two-time All-Pro. That’s a Hall of Fame trajectory. The Dolphins essentially got Pittsburgh’s 18th draft pick and took Austin Jackson. The left tackle looks like he’ll be good. But you don’t lose great young talent in a rebuild to get other young talent. (Plus, imagine a secondary with Howard and Fitzpatrick.)

There’s another issue here. Brian Flores, as good a coaching job as he’s done, is developing a track record of not getting along with some people. Don Shula and Jimmy Johnson didn’t get along with everyone, either. But they put up with great talent at times in order to help winning.

Howard likely comes to training camp rather than pay a daily, $50,000 fine. Wouldn’t you? The question is what frame of mind he’s in, and if he practices or has an, oh, nagging hamstring issue that holds him out.

It’s not the end of the world if he misses some practice. But this is a season the Dolphins are asked to win again. It’s not a year to trade away your best player for draft picks. Howard is unhappy. That’s fine. The Dolphins should let him be unhappy and intercept 10 passes for this defense.

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-dolphins/fl-sp-hyde-howard-trade-20210719-7hwdmzevrfgf7fu4qpsxdn4toq-story.html

I wouldn't trade him either for anything less than a Godfather/O'Brien offer. No need to, we have all the leverage. He wants more money and is going to sit out and not get paid? Can't say with 100% certainty that he won't but that would be a dumb move.

He ain't sitting for 4 years. Tell him to suck it up this year, play like a beast again and then renegotiations next offseason.

According to reports, he has reported. 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/07/27/xavien-howard-reports-to-dolphins-training-camp/

I could be wrong because I really didn't read too many details about the situation, but I think Xavien and Rodgers were both in a place where neither of them had much leverage to do anything other than eventually report.  

This is true. Once you are under contract for more than one year, not a lot of leverage. ESPECIALLY after the Draft and Free Agency. Rosters are usually set and so are payrolls. Xavier had much less leverage than Rodgers because his contract was longer and he just signed a massive extension. He wants more money whereas Rodgers just wants out.

Like Rodgers, I bet Miami spoke to him and essentially punted to next offseason and told him we would take care of it then, early on in the offseason so both sides have time to work things out and maybe depart if need be.

Well, this is not over yet. Xavien Howard has formally requested a trade. Says he and his agent submitted a few proposals to restructure his deal and Miami declined all of them. This isn't some kid still on his rookie deal, free agency isn't every single season. Sometimes you outplay your deal, sometimes you don't. His agent just wants to get paid, that's all this is about.

I think we are much smarter than we were 2 seasons ago when we traded Mikah. We aren't settling for anything less than a monster package and the trading team will still have to fork over the biggest CB contract in history. That limits his suitors greatly, down to maybe no one.

If I had to guess right now, he plays the whole year in Miami and then the future is up in the air.

I’ve given my heart and soul to the Miami Dolphins since they drafted me in 2016, and want to make it clear that I love my teammates.

    They are my family. But what I’ve learned is that the business side of the NFL proves organizations don’t always have a player’s best interest at heart.

    My experience with the Dolphins the pas few seasons has taught me that. In 2018 I signed an extension that I’ll admit I didn’t completely understand, or feel comfortable with.

    I’ve played on that deal for two seasons and didn’t complain, but everyone knows I’ve significantly outperformed that deal.

    I’m one of the best cornerbacks in the NFL, and the tape backs that claim. The assignments I’m given, shadowing the opposition’s best player with list help, proves my value, my worth. Yet, I’m the second highest paid cornerback on my own team, and it’s not even close.

    I want to clear up a few misconceptions about my situation. My agent David Canter and I have never once asked for a completely new contract.

    We wanted things to work out with the Dolphins, and brought solutions to the table - like guaranteeing more money - that we felt were win-wins for both sides. These were proposals of adjustments that wouldn’t just make me feel more respected, but were also cap friendly. But the Dolphins refused everything we proposed.

    That is why I don’t feel the organization has dealt with me in good faith. I don’t Feel valued, or respected by the Dolphins. Just like they can take a business-first approach, so can I.

    That’s why I want to make it clear I’m not happy, and have requested a trade.

    Until that trade happens I am here just so I don’t get fined, and will handle myself like professionals do."

That's his full statement. If guaranteeing a little bit more money was all it took to make him happy, I think Miami would've done it. This sounds like PR spin and how do you not understand signing the largest CB contract in history at the time?

Rumor is we tried to trade X for Chandler Jones and a 5th and the Cardinals said no.

We originally asked for magic beans but that was also rejected.

His "no outside factors" trade value is 2 First Rounders and something extra like a kick returner or a 5th rounder. His trade value today after demanding a trade in order to be the highest paid CB in history just as training camp starts and rosters are set? Not enough to have a serious trade discussion. You'll have like 2-3 teams at most and the offers will be low because of that. Only chance is if the Cowboys get desperate.

^^^^ THIS

His trade value will be hurt cause like you said, camp has just started and rosters are mostly set.  Maybe if an injury happens in camp for the position would elevate the trade.  More than likely we will bank on Cowboys trying "to make move" for Jerry

Because of this, 90% he stays with Miami unless Dallas does something stupid or we do. While I don't think he is being smart with this whole thing, Xavien knows that he has to play every game this year and play it well in order to have leverage next offseason. If he is injured this year or is just okay, we're not revisiting a thing with him next offseason and no team is trading 1st rounders and offering him a new contract.

After reading his press release. Hold his shitty little ass accountable for the whole contract. If he doesn't act like a professional, do his job, and perform up to those numbers in the current contract. Bench his ass then trade him to a shit team. Let him go get his money being a loser every week. Fuck this clown.

I completely get that but the problem is Dolphins are in win now mode and he is a huge part of that. We've been losers so long we might just as well suck it u and give him 4 million more a year because losing him will only make us much worse off.

Yeah, it's a balancing act with him due to his talent and where we are now. That's why I said I didn't really believe his press release when he said he just wanted a little more guaranteed money. I think if that's all it took then it would've been done. He's just banking on Miami not trahsing him publicly to refute it and he is probably right since we don't want to turn this into a blood feud.

It's not impossible we trade him before the season but it is unlikely because we are definitely a worse team without him. Even if Noah takes ahuge leap forward, Xavien is DPOY despite what the voting said. Draft picks only help us in the future.

When he missed a lot of games, they kept him around. When he had his legal problems, they kept him around. They gave him a contract that made him the highest paid cornerback in the league. AND HE SIGNED IT. Did he think that he would be the highest paid cornerback forever? I don't care if we only win 3 games, you don't let people like this control the situation. FUCK FUCK FUCK Xavian Howard. These aren't the type of people you want on your team

See who you can get to bolster the secondary. Then send that POS asshole to a shit team for as much as you can get ASAP. Life goes on

+1

Right now Miami will have the 4th best cap space for 2022.  If this guy was smart he would keep his trap shut, ball out in 2021, and he would get/deserve a renegotiation for 2022.  His continued antics tells me he either doesn't believe he can live up to his performance in 2020, or he's a prima donna ass that Miami doesn't need (or perhaps both).  I'd rather Miami miss the playoffs than pay a blackmailer that they have been very generous to.

Ian Rapoport is saying that multiple teams have called about Xavien, with two of them being playoff teams. This is why the package has to be for a lot more than just a 1st rounder. A playoff team adding Xavien can be a contender and you don't trade him away for the 29th overall pick. That's not a 1st rounder we should be looking at. A playoff team owes us two of those plus more.

Xavien will play for us and play well if he is still here in Week 1.

His comment "Until a trade happens Im just here so I don't get fined and will handle myself like a professional", doesn't sound like he's going to play well. A real professional goes to work and does his job for the agreed upon salary. Not "just to not get fined". This clown needs to go, next man up.

He will because he has to in order to get paid. If he doesn't play well or dogs it or gets injured, he isn't getting that new contract and he will be 29, which is a few years away from the CB Cutoff. He will get paid one way or another if he is DPOY again.

In a  five year career he has played a full season twice, and played single digit games twice. I lay my money that he gets hurt again this year. If you get any halfway decent offer take it and get rid of the locker room problem.

Hell, I think I read that Tom Brady took pay cuts to keep his team competitive and in the Superbowl. No one is asking this clown to take a pay cut, just be a fucking man and honor your contract.

I can understand the player's POV on this in regards to guaranteed money because the team can almost cut you whenever they want so NFL contracts are near worthless. That part of the argument is fine to me, what isn't fine is renegotiating your long term contract every offseason. Team takes a risk in signing an injury prone player to big money, player takes a risk if the market blows up afterwards. No one gets paid what they are worth every year. If they were, we owe Xavien an extra $3 Million last year and he owes us $8 Million for not playing the full season in 2019. I don't think he wants that deal.

I disagree, you're worth what you agree to accept to do the job. In one year, dude already gets paid 7-10 times what a regular person makes in their entire lifetime. Xavian Howard is a selfish ass pussy who only cares about himself. If he has another good to great year, add some production related incentives next offseason. If he doesn't play up to his current salary, bench his ass and trade him to Houston, Detroit, or Jacksonville to finish out his career. You can't let someone like this hold the team hostage. He could single handedly control the outcome of a game on a whim.

I know this isn't realistic, but I would happily re-negotiate with a player for more money mid contract as long as they paid back money for every year they didn't perform up to the paycheck they are getting. 

Per source, Xavien Howard not practicing because of minor injury

https://twitter.com/flasportsbuzz/status/1420764075341013003 (https://twitter.com/flasportsbuzz/status/1420764075341013003)


"Minor injury"....suuuure.

I figured that was going to happen.  Not the first time a player has pulled that and it won't be the last time.  I wouldn't be surprised if Deshaun Watson and/or Aaron Rodgers does the same thing.

This just drives down his trade value and once it gets to a certain point, he is staying. He isn't going for a 3rd rounder no matter how bad he behaves. We will just bench him rather than give him away to another contender.

It didn't seem to effect Jalen Ramsey's value when he was traded.  Howard is close to that level, it shouldn't effect his trade value too much

I have mixed feelings about the possibility of trading him. He is still an upper tier CB and the secondary as a unit was very good last year.  I think Noah will improve this year and the secondary has a chance to be outstanding this year if they "keep the band together".   

BUT, at 28 he has more good years behind him than ahead of him and teams look at contracts as being more about what the player can do in the future rather than what they have done in the past.    Xavien isn't young for a CB and if not this year, he will soon lose a step and he isn't exactly a speed demon to begin with.  As a DB nears 30 injuries typically are more common and take longer to heal.  With the year he had last year, his trade value is probably the highest it will be even though it is probably diminished some by his request for a trade which typically drives down (at least a little bit) what you are going to get in exchange. 

I think my personal preference since he is still an upper tier CB and the secondary could be special this year would be to throw some extra money at him (as long as it doesn't put the team in a payroll bind this year or next year) if it is a reasonable amount of money and get another year of hopefully high level performance.  This would also give the team a chance to see for a full season whether Noah is going to be a suitable replacement.  Then after this year trade him.  Even if it is for a little bit less than what you could get this year for him. 

If the team sucked, I would probably feel differently.  But I think they have a legit shot at the playoffs and maybe even advancing in the playoffs this year.  So let's try to field a team that gives them the best chance to win now. 

Of course I will hedge my bets and say that if a team is willing to trade a king's ransom for Xavien, then do it.   LOL

Drew Rosenhaus who is not X's agent was on Joe Rose this morning and while he was careful to tiptoe the subject said he expects the Dolphins to find a way to make it work and keep him. Drew is currently trying to get a new contract for Emmanuel Ogbah.

Rodgers is happy. He's even gotten one of his favorite receivers back at his request. The Green Bay Packers have brought back Randall Cobb, with the team announcing a trade with the Houston Texans for its longtime receiver Wednesday night.

I do too but not this offseason in terms of a new deal. I think they will issue him some verbal guarantees for next offseason and throw in some more money and maybe another year. If this were just about some more guaranteed money, it would've happened already. He clearly wants more but I don't think we will make him the highest paid CB in the league AGAIN.

Noah isn't looking too great in practices. Against backups, he got burned quite a bit and was replaced by Nik Needham. I know he is young and was a project, but you don't get torched by Isaiah Ford in practice.

This can work against Howard because if Miami feels that Noah isn't ready to take over, then they are less likely to trade him and it's unlikely Howard sits out games if all he wants is more money.

Howard has agreed to a restructured contract with extra incentives added on.   This will give him the chance to earn the extra money he's been demanding but protect the team if he gets hurt again.    

Good, glad this is over, for now.

And miraculously, his "injury" will be just fine now.  I'm glad he is ready to go to work now.  But generally speaking, I find the whole fake injury tactic and the holdout tactic to be sorry ass moves when players do that.  You are under contract.  If you want to try to renegotiate, fine.  But don't hold out and don't fake an injury to use as leverage.  You were happy with the contract when you signed it.  Suck it up.  And I never seen any of these guys racing to the bank to made a withdrawl to repay their team when they don't play up to their contract.  I'm not just talking about Xavien.  I don't like it when anyone does it. 

I wonder what Belichick and the Patriots would have done in the same situation?

I am a big fan of incentive laden contracts.  If I was a GM I would push them heavy.  Say a guy who would normally get a $5 million per year contract, gets a $2 million dollar contract a bonus worth $3 million that requires 90% production from last year and another $2 million if he hits 120% and another $3 million if he hits 150%.  Meaning if he is playing like a $10 million dollar player he gets $10 million, but if he sucks he makes less.

All things considered, this was the best case scenario from a bad situation. No doubt this will be revisited next offseason but let's just focus on the season now.

I agree with this.   That way the team doesn't take a huge cap hit if they decide to part ways with a player that sucks. 

You just have to manage your cap very carefully because incentives that are met count against the following year's cap

I'm not an expert on managing the salary cap, but from what I do understand of it, I agree with you.  Incentives give a certain amount of protection to the team and also gives the player a reason to try to overachieve. 

The contracts that the players (and the teams!) sign has exactly those injury allowances written into it.

We shouldn't argue in favor of a system where if the team screws over a player within the rules, the rules are the rules and business is business, but when the player screws over the team within the rules, now the player needs to suck it up and live up to their end of the bargain.

Then don't sign a legally binding contract with terms you don't agree with.

I'm actually interested in your take on the whole concept here.  I believe you have stated before that you believe that your preferred system is socialism.  If I'm not remembering that correctly, I apologize and you can disregard the following question.  You have stated before your disdain for what business executives, corporate leaders, etc. earn and the income disparity that results.  I figured you would respond with something about teams screwing players as you did.  But how do you feel about the money that professional athletes make.  Although their compensation packages still leave them far behind that of team owners, but the players are millionaires in their own right.  You seem to be okay with "when the player screws over the team within the rules" so does that mean you are okay with them making millions of dollars?  Especially the income inequality between the players and let's say maybe the assistant equipment manager or some similar position.  I know everyone here loves to come up with "Gotcha Questions" to hit each other with, but that is not what I'm trying to do with my question.  I'm actually interested in where you think that millionaire professional athletes fit into what you would like to see in a socialist society. 

Keep in mind that team owners don't really make money off their sports teams.  Some actually lose money.  The team is their toy to play with.  They are billionaires because of other ventures.

There sure have been times that some teams in the NFL aren't very profitable, but I think you have to look at investment value as the profit here. Even last year, with the pandemic going on and no butts (or very few butts anyway) in seats, the valuation of all 32 NFL franchises increased by an average of 7% in 2020.

If there is red ink on the ledger, it's disappearing ink...  8)

Tom Brady just went off about this too, saying the NFLPA needs to stand up and not accept reduced caps when owners are still making money. Listen, sports owners and small business owners are NOT the same thing. Small Business owners usually take great personal sacrifice, both financially and timewise to make a succesful business and their model of success is profit. Sports owners are already billionaires who don't sacrifice much except money and none of it will make or break them. Their model of success should be WINNING but instead too many of them care about profits over the on field play.

I think I speak for everyone here when I say I don't give a shit what our books look like in January if our record is 6-11. I didn't buy a jersey for the guy in accounting. If you can't afford to sacrifice some profits to put a winning team on the field, you shouldn't be a sports owner. Owning a franchise is a luxury item and nothing more, don't say you can't sail your Yacht because Yacht Wax got too expensive.

It's also not a free market.  You can't really compare these contracts to regular jobs, regardless of the salary.  You don't get drafted out of college to work between IBM or Dell.  It's a managed monopoly, and with that, the rules have to be different.

My view on contracts have really changed over the years.  I used to be much more of a black-and-white, what's-on-the-paper type of guy.  But as I've aged and seen how things work, not to mention, I've worked in a law firm that deals with contracts for over 10 years, it's really altered my perspective.

Contracts are about intent.  It's an agreement made between parties, where everyone is playing by the same set of rules.  And risks are OK, but both parties have to understand those risks.  When things pan out well outside those lists of norms (for any number of reasons), there's reason to expect that a contract be questioned that doesn't reflect those new values.

That happens in sports, but you're also seeing it in things like movies, where COVID has changed how the contracts are perceived and how payouts work.

What I don't think is fair for us to do is not to allow people their share of their worth, in terms of profit-sharing, just because the numbers are higher than we can relate to.  It's hard to have sympathy for a guy who is making 10 million, thinking he should make 12 million, but the money is coming in regardless.  It's just a question of who it should go to.

^^^^^

One of the things I look at the most is that money is coming into the league solely due to the work of the players and their special abilities. This isn't like someone working at Applebee's that can be replaced by anyone, how many people can do what Xavien does? Their share of the profits should be higher considering what they bring to the league. Complaining about $12 Million a year seems dumb until you realize he brings in more than that on the field and off while the owners sit back and just take in profits for minimal work.

The team signed a contract stating that if the player is injured, he gets paid anyway.
"If you don't like the terms, don't sign" goes both ways.

I don't think everyone should have exactly the same income, but I do believe that no one working full-time should be expected to survive on less than a living wage.  So to the extent that NFL teams are paying full-time employees so little that a) they need another job to make ends meet or b) they qualify for government assistance, I do think that non-player employees should make more.

However, I'm not sure how relevant the question is, because I don't think that raise should come out of the portion of revenue allocated to players; it should come out of the ownership side.

Every single owner of literally every team in a major American pro sports league makes money.  It's not even close.

If I bought an old house in Brooklyn 20 years ago for $300,000, and I've averaged $10,000 a year repairing it over the last decade, but the house is now worth $3 million, I did not "lose money" on that house.

Right.  Also, it's like not Applebees where the server IS the product.  Xavien Howard is the product.

I don’t view cutting a player that is underperforming as screwing a player.  I see the team’s ability to cut players before the expiration of their contract as part of the contract.  OTOH, faking an injury or giving less than 100% as not acting fair or in good faith.

Are there things teams do that is not in good faith?  Yes, and when that happens most fans side with the player.  Examples of bad faith by a team would include not giving a player a fair opportunity to hit performance bonuses, treating an injury incurred while working out during the offseason as non-football.  But cutting a player or not reworking a contract early is not bad faith.

No, football is the product.  Howard is a replaceable part.  No one player is irreplaceable. Plenty of players that are significantly more important to football have left the game.  You might argue that the NFL’s product diminished a little the day players like Peyton, Brees or Marino retired. But to whatever extent it was extremely minor, the product remained.  If Howard fell off the face of the earth, it would not register as at all significant to the game.

I'm sure we can both agree that professional athletes play while impaired all the time (the old "Are you hurt or are you injured?" question).  I don't fault a player for choosing not to play while hurt.

Now, just to clarify: I think the Dolphins took the correct action in this situation.  They could have traded X like they traded Minkah, which I was against then and would be against now.  The brass found a way to make both sides happy.  That's how negotiations should work.

In a league like MLB or the NBA where contracts are guaranteed, if a player wants more money mid-contract, I usually don't have a lot of sympathy for them.  But in the NFL where they can cut your ass at any time, I think every player should take full advantage of the rules as worded.

Okay, I can understand that.  Honestly, I'm not particularly well versed in the specifics of how the theory of socialism works regarding the everyone having the same income versus living wage thing works so I think I understand better now where you are with your beliefs.  We are still pretty far apart in philosophies, but I appreciate you giving me a serious answer that helps me to understand. 

And yeah, I know my questions was only slightly relevant my question was, but the topic was at least in the same ballpark so I wanted to get your thoughts.  And it isn't as if any of us on here are particularly good about keeping threads right on track.  LOL  I get a kick out of it sometimes to see how far off topic threads get sometimes. 

Amazing how you complain about the evil rich people. And this poor the poor guy is only making around $15 million a year. Multiple times what you'll probably make in your entire life. Sounds like crybaby Xavian gots him a lil' privilege and entitlement going on.

The belief that everyone should have the same income is more similar to communism, which - despite the screaming on political ads - is not remotely the same thing as socialism.  The gap between socialism and communism is as big as the gap between "small government" in America and "small government" in Somalia.

In any case, I think this discussion falls more into the realm of management vs. labor on the terms of compensation, which is inherently a capitalistic premise.  The speed with which many Americans rush to support billionaire owners over millionaire players is disappointing, but not surprising.

The man signing his checks makes many times more than that.
Gotta keep your priorities aligned!

The funny part is that they both probably use many of the same tax loopholes. Jokes on you.

Don't get it twisted: I would like to see both Xavien Howard and Stephen Ross paying a LOT more in taxes.
But I can walk and chew gum at the same time.  All other things being equal, I support labor over management.

It's not a competition.

Value is one thing.  Revenue vs expenses is what I was referring to.  And there are several teams in all major sports that are small market and barely turn a profit each year.

Any unsatisfied owner of a small market, "low profit" team can sell that team for (depending on the league) a BILLION+ dollars in instant profit.

That's not to say I accept the "low profit small market teams" framing - I don't, and the one team in the smallest North American pro sports market also happens to be the same team with open books that conclusively refute that "low profit" claim - but even if we stipulate that it's true, if you don't want to afford the upkeep on a MASSIVELY appreciating asset, then sell it and cash out.

Small market owners will get no tears from me.

Not likely.  The player is paying taxes on his earnings (both salary and endorsements)   Granted if he invests those earnings, he can use the same tax evasion methods to avoid taxes on the investment earnings. 

Howard probably pays more in taxes than Ross.  Brady probably pays more in taxes than Kraft.

The server at Applebees is the product? I thought my Bourbon Street steak was the product...

That's why what Derek Jeter did with the Marlins was so disgraceful. Basically, bought the team with a majority of his net worth (as well as the other owners) and immediately started gutting it and selling assets to lower all costs, even knowing that the value of the franchise would go up every year. He made the onfield product suffer greatly so that they could recoup some of their "losses".

It's an absolute monopoly and no owners get any sympathy from me. I only care about contract finances due to the salary cap, otherwise I wouldn't care at all.

That was, ineloquently, the point I was trying to make.

The server isn't the product.  Where, I think that the player is.

It's not "tax evasion" if it's legal. You're not evading taxes, you're paying what you're legally required to pay according to the current tax code. The federal government usually only has the authority to tax actual income. That means any property bought with after tax money is usually sheltered until that property is sold for a profit or loss. Taxed income isn't realized until property is sold for a profit. And rightfully so, if your money is tied up in stocks, bonds, or property you can't spend it until you cash it out, at which point it will be taxed. Anyone not using every legal means to lower their tax burden is not a very smart person.

I would somewhat disagree with that. The actual games are the product and the players are one of the ingredients. Kind of like a pizza from Papa Johns. If their supplier starts charging too much to supply the pepperoni. They'll get a different supplier. The pizza/product may be better or worse but the actual pizza is still what people are paying for. I doubt that very many people are paying or watching to specifically see crybaby Xavian play. If he dropped off the face of the earth tomorrow, the games/product would still be there. Specific players are just a piece of the puzzle.

The business side of it all has made me less of a sports fan than I used to be.  I try to ignore the business side, but since it effects the game so much as in your comment about Jeter, it is damn impossible to ignore it. 

This is why I haven't watched baseball in years, I actively hate the Yankees now due to ownership. Don't cry poverty and how you have to stay under the luxury tax when you are making tens of millions a year, your franchise goes up in value every year and you keep raising ticket prices. Might as well root for Verizon or Home Depot if we are just going to play the profit game.

I think this is fair.

But nobody is going to Papa John's because of how good the pepperoni is.  Most people wouldn't notice if you changed it out and there probably isn't a huge difference in pizza pepperoni quality, though I admit that I'm not an expert on the subject.  I do think that people go to see star players play.  There is a direct impact on the bottom line on the team.

Maybe cheese is a better example.  Or sauce.  You'll notice the quality there lol.

If you eat Papa John's, you will notice nothing because you are high.

As someone who owns stock in both Verizon and Home Depot, i am going to unapologetically root for them both.  LOL   Although Verizon has underperformed for me so they need to step up their game. 

Hey, I rather like Papa John's

Disagree, my pizza place changed sauces and I changed pizza places.  My football team changed QB. -  I am still a Patriots fan.

For some teams fans go to see star players.  But that's not most teams, and IMO that's not the current Dolphins roster.  I wouldn't go to a Dolphins game right now because I wanted to see Xavien or Tua, I go to a game because of decades of goodwill that came from watching past teams.  Current players and owners make their money off of the backs of prior teams/players (with the exception of maybe 10 or 20% of the top athletes currently playing that are considered stars).

One of few, many switched to the Bucs

So I like this re-working of Xavien's contract, and I think it's fair to both sides.  He says he's the best, and he will get extra money if he performs like he did last year.  The additional guarantee of his salary for one more year is also fair to both sides.  The only downside you come across in these performance laden contracts is when you get towards the end of the season and X wants to be on the field to get snaps in to reach an incentive, when maybe he shouldn't be out there.  Or sometimes there are ruthless owners that tell the coach to sit a player so he doesn't have to pay the incentive.  Hopefully, they won't run into this problem.

I'm high fairly regularly...and I notice everything, especially if it involves the taste of my munchies.

It's not about the player or team. The product is the game of football overall.

Pizza = Game of Football
Pizza brands = Football teams
Pizza ingredients = players and other variables

Some people may change what team they like, but most won't replace watching football with something else due to a certain player. They are still fans of football.

Just like some people may change what pizza joint they buy pizza from. But most people won't just stop eating pizza all together if their old pizza joint got rid of the ingredients they liked.

  

It's pretty obvious that with a former Yankee great as the owner and another former Yankee great as the manager, the Marlins will be the Yankees personal farm club.   Best AAA team in MLB.

Well...top-5 anyway.  :-\

That Giancarlo trade at the time was disgusting for the game of baseball. Now, looks like the Marlins got the better end of it as Stanton can't stop lifting and hurting himself.

Not to mention the fact that he's facing better pitching in the American League.   If I were in charge of the Marlins, I'd take him back in a heartbeat if your boys were willing to pay a sizeable portion of his remaining contract.

Can I ask what statistical basis you have for that supposition? Just curious...

The fact that American League pitchers face nine guys who can hit per game whereas National League pitchers face only eight.  You keep facing nine hitters per game as opposed to eight, your bound to develop better skills. 

OK, so there is no statistical basis, just your opinion. Not really what I was looking for there.

Counter opinion #1: A lot of the top pitchers like to go to the NL, so they can face a pitcher every game instead of a DH.
Counter opinion #2: A lot of the top pitchers like to go to the NL because they actually enjoy hitting.

Should you come up with any statistical support for your claim...excellent! Let me know and we can continue that debate.

Well of course AL pitchers' numbers are going to look worse.  Because they are facing nine hitters every game, the odds are higher that they give up more hits.   There's a reason why an above average pitcher in the AL will be contending for the Cy Young in the NL.   Not to mention that enjoying something and being good at it are two different things.   I'd say nine times out of ten, the pitcher hitting is an automatic out.

^^^ checking, checking, checking...nope, no stats.  Statistics is your ticket back into that discussion. I do understand your opinion, I just want to determine whether it is supported by the numbers.

But...would you actually take a minute to research that estimate before saying it?

I don't understand this argument.  AL pitchers are better because... their numbers are worse?

Like, if Max Scherzer goes from the NL to the AL, and his numbers get worse, that means that he's... better now?  And likewise, if Shane Bieber goes from the AL to the NL, and his numbers get better, that somehow means he's actually worse?

The argument he's making -- not sure whether he's right or not is that AL pitchers have to face 9 out of 9 quality batters.  Whereas NL pitchers only face 8 good players and pad their pitching numbers with 1 bum.

That's logical.

Right, but that would be an argument that NL pitchers have better numbers.  Maybe that's true, maybe it isn't.

However, even if we stipulate that it IS true, it doesn't make AL pitchers BETTER than NL pitchers.  Having worse numbers doesn't mean you are a superior pitcher.

I was hoping that particular question would be answered using the numbers.

Favorite quote in that regard came from the film "For Love of the Game." Kevin Costner's character, pitcher Billy Chapel is talking to his new girlfriend (Jane Aubrey) about the game of baseball...

Jane: Do you lose very much?
Billy: I lose... I've lost 134 times.
Jane: You count them?
Billy: We count everything...

What does all this boring baseball talk have to do with Xavien Howard?  Speaking of which, he had an INT in Bears joint practice today, but Ogbah was offsides.

No, but I think it means you can discount stats as apples to apples.  You can excuse away why AL numbers or worse or could say that if the numbers were the same, that NL numbers being even despite an advantage is a sign of inferiority.

I'm not saying any of that is actually true, just that it is a logical argument to make.

Contract > Worth of Xavien > How contracts are structured > everyone hating on the owners > me shitting on Papa John's > me yelling at Derek Jeter > Giancarlo Stanton > Pitching

LOL, that seemed to run the same course that most topics do here.   I'm just hoping to get through these pre season practices and games without any more injuries and getting the season started. 

+1

Soon the topics will all turn into Tua; he's great, he's terrible, the lines terrible, the receivers are terrible, no running game, should have drafted ....That is unless Tua comes out hot and wins the first nine games.  But there will be that one guy complaining when they lose the tenth.  lol

Hahaha!  You know it.  As it has always been and as it shall always be.  If the internet and TDMMC had been around during the Perfect Season, someone would post that they should have dominated a couple of those close games and they need to be more focused next time.