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Something is not making sense here.

The omicron is supposed to be a mild variant.

This means either

1) People are lying to us

2) People are going to the hospital when they don't have to be going there when they have COVID

The people who refuse the vaccine are NEVER going to get it, no matter what.

I personally don't have a problem with it.  I also don't have a problem with the boosters.  I get a flu shot every year.  What's the big deal about a COVID one?

It's getting HARDER and HARDER for me to NOT want another massive lockdown.  This winter has been HORRID in Massachusetts.  In 2020, after the lockdown, we had a very snowy winter. 

Omicron is a "mild variant" if you're vaccinated.
For the unvaccinated, it's still very dangerous... and it's far more contagious.

The difference is that more people are getting Omicron than got the original virus so even though there's less chance of having to be hospitalized with Omicron so many more have it that more are actually being hospitalized. There's about 3 times the number of cases of covid being reported right now than at this time in 2021 which was the previous peak time, but fewer are dieing from it now than at that time. Hospitalizations however I think are up from Jan 2021.

No one is lying about Omicron and all those people in the hospital with covid need to be there, trust me they send you home if you have the virus and you don't need to be hospitalized. They only admit those that need to be hospitalized.

I thought Omicron outsmarted the vaccines and got past them

+1

It is a much mlder varient regardless of if you are vaccinated or not. It's kind of funny that one shot would fix you but now you need 3 or 4 and while they still aren't working ... some people refuse to admit they were wrong.  

Even life long liberals are starting to figure out the Covid hysteria isn't all it's cracked up to be.

She went from a casual viewer of CNN and MSNBC to seeking out Fox News clips about the 'schools issue' on YouTube because they were the only ones covering it.

Soon, she did the unthinkable: She just turned on Fox News itself. And she realized, 'It's not what CNN claims it to be.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10428729/Lefts-Covid-hysteria-driving-wave-liberal-moms-away-Democrats-writes-BETHANY-MANDEL.html

The overwhelming majority of people hospitalized and/or dying from COVID are unvaccinated.
The vaccines are working just fine.  If it weren't for all the unvaccinated people filling up the hospitals, we wouldn't have to care about testing vaccinated people with no symptoms, because for vaccinated people COVID is the flu, bro.

I find it incredibly ironic that we still have over 2000 unvaccinated Americans dying each day from COVID and you think it's other people who should admit they were wrong.

Funny how I see reports that isn't the case. If unvaccinated are more at risk then states like Florida would lead the way in death rates. Add in the fact we have more olde people and it should be even higher. The reality is we are towards the bottom third. That why your even your progressive liberal politicians vacation and party here without masks. The propaganda isn't real. It's scare tactics to keep your vote. 

Covid death rates by state as of January 24th
Ohio
Deaths per 100,000: 1.3
Daily average deaths: 152.1

Alaska
Deaths per 100,000: 1.29
Daily average deaths: 9.4

New York State
Deaths per 100,000: 1.17
Daily average deaths: 227.7

Connecticut
Deaths per 100,000: 1.15
Daily average deaths: 41.1

Tennessee
Deaths per 100,000: 1.14
Daily average deaths: 77.7

Michigan
Deaths per 100,000: 1.13
Daily average deaths: 113.1

Indiana
Deaths per 100,000: 1.11
Daily average deaths: 75

Maryland
Deaths per 100,000: 1.08
Daily average deaths: 65.3

New Jersey
Deaths per 100,000: 1.08
Daily average deaths: 95.7

Illinois
Deaths per 100,000: 1.03
Daily average deaths: 130.6

Pennsylvania
Deaths per 100,000: 1.03
Daily average deaths: 131.3

Massachusetts
Deaths per 100,000: 0.96
Daily average deaths: 66.1

Missouri
Deaths per 100,000: 0.88
Daily average deaths: 54

Rhode Island
Deaths per 100,000: 0.88
Daily average deaths: 9.3

Delaware
Deaths per 100,000: 0.82
Daily average deaths: 8

Arizona
Deaths per 100,000: 0.81
Daily average deaths: 58.9

New Mexico
Deaths per 100,000: 0.78
Daily average deaths: 16.3

Kansas
Deaths per 100,000: 0.77
Daily average deaths: 22.6

West Virginia
Deaths per 100,000: 0.74
Daily average deaths: 13.3

Wisconsin
Deaths per 100,000: 0.73
Daily average deaths: 42.4

South Dakota
Deaths per 100,000: 0.68
Daily average deaths: 6

Kentucky
Deaths per 100,000: 0.59
Daily average deaths: 26.1

New Hampshire
Deaths per 100,000: 0.59
Daily average deaths: 8

Louisiana
Deaths per 100,000: 0.57
Daily average deaths: 26.7

South Carolina
Deaths per 100,000: 0.54
Daily average deaths: 27.7

Iowa
Deaths per 100,000: 0.53
Daily average deaths: 16.6

Nevada
Deaths per 100,000: 0.51
Daily average deaths: 15.6

Oklahoma
Deaths per 100,000: 0.48
Daily average deaths: 18.9

Vermont
Deaths per 100,000: 0.48
Daily average deaths: 3

Georgia
Deaths per 100,000: 0.46
Daily average deaths: 49

Minnesota
Deaths per 100,000: 0.46
Daily average deaths: 25.7

Mississippi
Deaths per 100,000: 0.46
Daily average deaths: 13.7

North Dakota
Deaths per 100,000: 0.45
Daily average deaths: 3.4

Montana
Deaths per 100,000: 0.44
Daily average deaths: 4.7

Idaho
Deaths per 100,000: 0.43
Daily average deaths: 7.7

Maine
Deaths per 100,000: 0.43
Daily average deaths: 5.7

Texas
Deaths per 100,000: 0.43
Daily average deaths: 124.6

Florida
Deaths per 100,000: 0.4
Daily average deaths: 86.4

North Carolina
Deaths per 100,000: 0.4
Daily average deaths: 41.4

Alabama
Deaths per 100,000: 0.38
Daily average deaths: 18.5

Colorado
Deaths per 100,000: 0.37
Daily average deaths: 21.1

Arkansas
Deaths per 100,000: 0.36
Daily average deaths: 10.9

Utah
Deaths per 100,000: 0.35
Daily average deaths: 11.3

Washington
Deaths per 100,000: 0.35
Daily average deaths: 26.9

Wyoming
Deaths per 100,000: 0.32
Daily average deaths: 1.9

California
Deaths per 100,000: 0.3
Daily average deaths: 117.4

District of Columbia
Deaths per 100,000: 0.24
Daily average deaths: 1.7

Nebraska
Deaths per 100,000: 0.21
Daily average deaths: 4.1

Hawaii
Deaths per 100,000: 0.2
Daily average deaths: 2.9

Oregon
Deaths per 100,000: 0.18
Daily average deaths: 7.6

Virginia
Deaths per 100,000: 0.11
Daily average deaths: 9.7

I can tell you from personal experience, we have an employee who isn't vaccinated, he's a Jehovah Witness and says it's against his religion.  Anyway, his wife and him got Omicron and he was out for almost 3 weeks.  A couple of days he said he couldn't even move it was so bad.  His wife almost had to be hospitalized.  They are both in their early 30s.  My parents who are both vaccinated got Omicron.  My mom sounded like a pack a day smoker on the phone, but other than that it was like a flu for them, never any risk for hospitalization.  My dad has completely recovered while my mom is almost completely recovered.  They are both in their mid 70s.

Let's suppose, for the sake of argument, that these statistics are accurate and that FL has figured out some secret miracle answer for COVID.
What is your explanation for:

1) why over 2,000 Americans are still dying from COVID every day
2) why over 95% of those dying from COVID are not vaccinated

Is your solution that we need to stop wearing masks and then we won't have hospitals full of dying COVID patients?  Or what, exactly?
Seriously, this is a sincere question: what is your solution to reducing the number of deaths from COVID?  Because we have tried allowing people to Make Their Own Decisions About Vaccination and the direct result is that we have hospitals full of unvaccinated patients dying from COVID, and there does not seem to be any sort of death total where the anti-vaxxers will admit that this is actually a public health crisis.

There really is no solution.   We just have to live with the results like we did with SARS and H1N1.   A pandemic like this is usually good for the world because it thins out the weak and high risk and the stronger ones survive.   This lockdown and vax and mask bullshit is just that.... bullshit.

There were literally (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002%E2%80%932004_SARS_outbreak) ZERO (https://www.cdc.gov/sars/about/faq.html) deaths from SARS in the US during the 2002-2004 outbreak, and 12,469 (https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/2009-h1n1-pandemic.html) total deaths from H1N1 in US during the 2009 outbreak.

There have been over 16,000 American deaths from COVID in the last week alone.

SARS and H1N1 are not remotely comparable to COVID.  Not even close.  So when you're saying "we just have to live with the results," you're effectively saying that our hospital system should be either be completely revamped to deal with COVID, or we should just accept that hospitals will be permanently broken for the foreseeable future.

hospital capacity and healthcare worker burnout aside, I'd say that the whole 95% of deaths being unvaccinated is a good example of darwinian natural selection at work. Being to the right of Trump politically is apparently bad for their survival, so they're dying more.  Oh well.

I'd agree, except that the unvaccinated are also negatively impacting responsible Americans who can't get the medical treatment they need because the hospitals are full of unvaccinated COVID patients.

A friend of mine has a wife that works in a Bay Area ICU, and due to all the unvaccinated COVID patients, any patient in the hospital who tests positive for COVID - symptomatic or not - has to be segregated with the COVID patients.  She recently had a vaccinated patient who underwent open heart surgery and came back to the hospital with complications from the surgery, and because he tested positive for COVID (asymptomatically), in order to treat him, they have to go through a full gowning & PPE procedure that would normally be unnecessary.  So anyway, his medical alarm goes off, and it takes her a couple of minutes to fully gown up and treat this emergency; by this point, she needs to do chest compressions to save his life.  As she's doing chest compressions, she can see his stitches from the recent heart surgery break open, and he's bleeding everywhere.  This would all be unnecessary if it weren't for unvaccinated people creating an entirely preventable COVID crisis.

This is to say nothing of the rare vaccinated COVID patients who have serious COVID cases but can't get treatments like monoclonal antibodies, because the willingly unvaccinated plague rats freedom-loving independent researchers suddenly decide that Big Pharma is actually great when they're in a hospital bed and demand that "the kitchen sink" of treatments be made available to them.

It's what is being reported closest to me.

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/coronavirus/parkland-dramatic-increase-in-hospitalizations-covid-19-patients-mostly-unvaccinated/2847234/

I am at the point that I would like to see vax as a requirement for hospital admissions.

Not vaxed, we send you to an alternate site with minimal therapeutic options.  If you don’t believe in modern medicine then you don’t belong in a 21st century hospital.  Doesn’t matter if you have covid or other problem. If you don’t trust the doctor that are all telling you that the vaccine is critical but rather are believing some whack job preacher claiming that prayer and repentance will save you than the ambulance can transport you to your church of choice when you are in a car accident.

We won’t get past this until a critical percentage of the population is vaxed.  Only two ways to increase the percentage 1. Unvaccinated get vaccinated.  2. Unvaccinated remove themselves from the population though death.  I suggest the first, but if you want to go the second route don’t jam up the medical system in the  process.

I'm not sure I would go that far, but something along those lines seems doable. Perhaps there should be a triage unit in place and your vax status should be a part of the triage. Unvaxxed, there's the line...it's pretty long....vaxxed....we have an opening for you, right this way...

i would be okay with that as long as the waiting area is segregated away from others.  Don’t needed the compromise but vaccinated at risk of a breakthrough case.

Two words regarding your idea of vaccine requirements for anything..... Second Amendment.

What does that mean, exactly?  That you're going to kill doctors that won't treat you if they don't let you in the hospital because you're not vaxxed?

Please expand on your statement.

More like should government pass such a law, a mob of angry, armed citizens will march on them.  That's what the second amendment is for.  Citizens defending themselves against a tyrannical government.

I know two couples where only one is vaccinated. In both cases the unvaccinated suffered less symptoms. In one couple it was the woman who was unvaccinated and the other was the male.

If you want to get famous then die from Covid and be unvaccinated. For some reason they don't report on the unvaccinated. I can't quite figure it out.
There is no secret formula other than quit listening to gloom and doom. If you are unvaccinated you have less than a half percent of chance of dying. If you are vaccinated it is slightly less. Thise numbers are actually dropping with the meds and treatments availble to both vaccinated and unvaccinated.

Many people are dying with Covid and not from Covid.

Why stop there? You should be able to deny it to fat people and smokers as well. Only healthy people with 4+ vaccinations AND that racist ID so many people talk about.

Just saw this on CNN (Yes I read that too) in regards to how Covid restrictions have damaged states.

New York (CNN Business)
America's job market hasn't fully recovered yet. But some states are already back to normal.

In November, Texas and Arizona joined Utah and Idaho in recouping all their pandemic job losses, according to a report by ratings agency Fitch.
In comparison, California and New York were at only 70% and 60% of their pre-pandemic employment levels, respectively.
This highlights just how uneven the recovery has been. States that were more affected by the waves of the pandemic and had tighter restrictions to fight the outbreak are lagging behind in recovering from their Covid job losses.

.....

Only South Dakota was more than 100% recovered, though a few states, including Idaho, Arizona, Florida and Montana are getting close.

Who said anything about the government?  We're talking about hospitals, which have not been nationalized under our capitalistic healthcare system (unlike, say, the UK).

It almost seems like "Second Amendment" is code for "If someone is doing something I don't like, I get to shoot them."  You're aware that defending yourself against a tyrannical government is still absolutely against the law, right?  All of the people who invaded the Capitol can invoke the Fifth Amendment in their defense, but they can't invoke the Second.

I know a person who drove drunk and didn't crash.
How should this shape our policy decisions?

They report on them all the time.  They have reported on thousands upon thousands of them dying daily.  I'm sure it's pretty easy to find news stories on it, but I can link some if you like.

So if we "quit listening to gloom and doom" then fewer unvaccinated people will die from COVID?
How would that work?

Again, let's suppose for the sake of argument that that statistic were accurate.
There are ~330M people in the US.  About 210M are vaccinated, leaving 120M remaining.
One half of one percent of 120M would be 600,000 deaths; more than all American deaths from both World Wars combined.
And those deaths are completely unnecessary and preventable.

No, it's dramatically less.  Well over 90% of COVID deaths are the unvaccinated (I think the number fluctuates around 98%).

So what are they dying from, then?
We've had over 400,000 more deaths in 2020 and in 2021 (each) than in 2019.  So what's your explanation for why so many more Americans mysteriously started dying?

Again, it's bizarre that you would admonish other people for refusing to admit being wrong.

And if a hospital or any establishment did that in the state of Florida, Governor DeSantis would be all over it and start fining and then sanctioning said business.

Is that when the Second Amendment comes into play?

Your whole I knew a person thing just means you didn't read the post. I was stating the counter to his story. Trust me ... I get that we can find examples of both out there. We can even find doctors and nurses who aren't vaccinated.

Can I ask a question? If being unvaccinated is so much worse than being vaccinated then how come we all aren't dead yet? Seems to me that the progressive liberals who are locked up and refuse to eat or participate in public would have an easy time at the polls this election as all of us naysayers should be gone by then. I could die from Covid tomorrow and it wouldn't change the fact that most people are perfectly safe catching Covid.

Let's not dance around the point of your anecdote, here: do you honestly believe that there is any scientific support for the idea that people who are unvaccinated will have fewer and less severe COVID symptoms than those who are vaccinated?  That is to say: do you believe being vaccinated actually makes COVID more deadly than being unvaccinated?

For exactly the same reason that the extremely dangerous Radical Islamic Extremists did not kill every American well before COVID arrived: a threat does not have to kill every single person to be dangerous.

I mean, COVID has already been more deadly than any war in American history, and is rapidly approaching more deaths than all of them combined.  But apparently the real threat to our country is Critical Race Theory!

I thought DeSantis' handling of Florida was considered by the press to be perfect.  He did absolutely nothing and eventually Florida's cases plummeted.  My information could be wrong

Here's a bunch that are:
https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/

hahaha no

Wanna know why FL's COVID cases "plummeted (https://www.healthline.com/health-news/why-florida-now-has-the-lowest-covid-19-case-rate)"?

“What does that really mean when they say that Florida has the lowest rate in the country?” Dr. David Cutler, a family medicine physician at Providence Saint John’s Health Center in Santa Monica, California, told Healthline.

“Because Florida only reports those positive cases among people who are full-time residents of Florida. So, if your full-time residence is in Ohio, and you have a condo in Miami Beach and you go down there and you get COVID, you’re not a case in Florida. You’re not even a case in Ohio. You’re nothing, and that’s why I don’t put a lot of impact on that Florida case rate.”

Ronnie D is cooking the books.  I'm waiting to see the total death statistics for 2021.  You can juke the numbers on "cause of death," but a dead body is a dead body.  We'll see how many people died in FL in 2021, and compare that to how many died in 2019 or 2020.

You wouldn't know. Many well respected scientists have come out against vaccines, mask mandates, and lock downs but liberal media bans them. Kind of funny that the guy who help to invent the jab is now considered a conspiracy nut now that he disagrees with the government. The best thing is the longer this thing goes the more it turns out conservatives are right. The trend id people from all sides are waking up and not the other. There are fewer and fewer people buying into the fear. Even one of the most progressive people in the country AOC is out partying in Florida without masks. Nancy Pelosi just bought a house in South Florida to retire to because California is so screwed up. Their real lives vs. the fake TV show they perform on for money is being exposed all the time.

If you're a "scientist" and you make a claim that is disproven by the rest of the scientific community, but you keep sticking to it anyway, you get discredited.
This is how "science" is supposed to work.

Robert Malone was one of thousands of people who contributed to the development of mRNA vaccines.  He's considered a conspiracy nut because of his nutty conspiracies, like the claim that he "invented" mRNA.  This is about as ridiculous as a single person claiming that they "invented" 4K televisions or 5G.  It's absurd on its face.

And we know conservatives are "right" because they tell us all the time!  Like this:

I know the right is obsessed with AOC, but here's a news flash: it's perfectly legal (https://coronavirus.health.ny.gov/frequently-asked-questions-proof-full-vaccination-or-mask-requirement-businesses-and-venues) to be outdoors without a mask in NY.  No one has to "travel to Florida" to escape this imaginary oppression.  (Or maybe you now believe that wanting to experience nice weather in the winter means liberals have silently acknowledged the superiority of conservative ideology?)

And of course, your Facebook "research" about Pelosi buying a mansion in Florida is just another delusional right-wing conspiracy that's easily (https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2021/12/01/fact-check-did-nancy-pelosi-buy-25-million-mansion-florida/8807199002/) disproven (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/11/30/fact-check-false-claim-pelosi-bought-25-m-house-florida/8754667002/) with a 5 second Google search.  I heard Nancy Pelosi takes ivermectin herself every day!

But there is one thing you absolutely did get right:

This is why the US still has 2,000 COVID deaths a day in 2022, a full year after vaccines have been available.
It's pathetic.

Every smartest man in the world has been discredited throughout time. The govornment doesn't want pushback on their "science" so anyone who does not agree isn't proven wrong but canclled from speaking. I don't care wht your opinion or "facts" are about a sunject if they can't be questioned then they aren't facts at all. They are an opinion from a dictator.

And for every "smartest person" who was discredited and later proved right, there are thousands of self-important jackasses who were discredited and consistently proven to be thoroughly wrong.

"They laughed at Galileo and he was proven right" is the rallying cry of the conspiracy nut, because you can use it for literally anything.
You say the moon landing was faked?  They laughed at Galileo and he was proven right!
You say the lizard people control our government?  They laughed at Galileo and he was proven right!

The irony of this is that when the "opinions or facts" are from a source you agree with - say, Robert Malone - suddenly YOU are against those "facts" being questioned.  No, everyone else needs to just accept these Obviously True Facts, and when others in the field say, "Actually, no, he's wrong because of X Y Z," well, that means they're cancelling him!

For snowflakes like this, "free speech" always only works in one direction.

One of the smartest things Aaron Rodgers has ever said.
"If science can't be questioned, it's not science anymore. It's propaganda, and that's the truth,"

That's exactlly where we are today with this current administration.

Israel is one of the most vaccinated places in the world and yet their numbers are super high. It doesn't work to any degree that it's worth destroying people's lives for not doing it and that's proven day in and day out.

Nobody is saying you can't question science.

That's bullshit.

Of course, you can, and you should question science.  But to refute findings, you need to work the scientific method and produce peer-reviewable evidence.





Also, I don't know how many times I say it -- It's like you're being intentionally obtuse: The Omicron varied isn't significantly deterred from infecting you if you're vaccinated.  It helps keep the virus from killing you, though.  So, sure, cases are way up in Israel.  They are averaging 22 deaths a day.  The US is averaging 2300 a day.

If you want to get vaccinated, get vaccinated. If you don't, don't. Everyone's going to believe what they want anyhow and call the other side wrong. What's to argue about?

I'm more wondering why they changed the definition of "vaccine"? Lots of definitions been changing in the last few years for some reason, LMFAO....

I didn't agree with this before, when your lack of vaccine increased my chance of infection.

Now that my infection rate isn't going to increase much because of your vaccine status, I care way, way less.  I still wish people would get vaccinated for strain on hospitals, saving money, reducing orphans, etc.....but also just because I want to reduce as much human suffering as possible.  But that's a different argument.  Now, I'm less about mandating what I think is best and moving more towards trying to convince people to better themselves for their own good.

I guess I look at things differently. Besides family and friends, it's not my job to save the world. I mean hell, it's hard enough to deal with family and friends. Fuck dealing with with people I don't know in real life. I'm not their parent, teacher, or priest.

People have the right to believe what they want whether I agree with it or not. What's the end game anyhow? We're all cosmic dust and most people will suffer one way or the other when the time comes.

If the unvaccinated people who don't trust Big Pharma and corrupt doctors were willing to stick to their guns and stay home when they get sick, my position on vaccination would be very close to "Reap what you sow." But since other, more responsible Americans are suffering due to the strained medical system, their selfish ignorance has become everyone's problem.

I can only hope that neither I nor my friends and family have the misfortune to need medical services during this time.

I agree with you, Dan, in theory.

But in practice, I think these numbers will naturally wane pretty soon and the hospital overcrowding argument will be gone.  I'm not sure it makes sense to take practical steps to legislate something that I think is going to happen anyway.

I wrote you personally on Facebook messenger, asking a question about COVID stats ...not sure if you saw it.

If you remove Covid from the conversation, those people are far and wide on the left and right. In fact the further left or right you go on the spectrum the less trust there is of "Big Pharma". So I'm not sure you're helping your case

Kind of like how in New York it's mostly the minorities who aren't allowed into restruants and such. The people with shots and the all racist "ID" are allowed to live accordingly.

It's not just left or right.  Anti-science is deeply rooted on the fringes of the left and is now the mainstream of the right, plus in immigrant communities, which are probably left-leaning politically, but also personally religiously conservative.  But I also know some apolitical or other contrarians that anti Covid vax.  There are more on the right, but not solely, by any means -- this kind of ignorance has a lot of different faces.

That's a hell of a qualifier!  Let me take a swing:

"If you remove COVID from the conversation, Democratic officials haven't instituted any lockdowns or implemented any new vaccine mandates over the past two years."

What "case" of mine is being hurt?  There is definitely a fringe group of anti-vaxxers on the crunchy granola left (and there has been for decades), but that's not remotely the same thing as the entire establishment apparatus for the Republican Party demonizing vaccines.

In any case, I'm perfectly happy to attack left-wing anti-vaxx knuckleheads too, so I'm not sure where you're going with this.

LOL ... I really don't think you guys look at anyhting outside of liberal news. Like the progressive liberal ladies who recently switched to repiblican ... they started watching FOX because they were the only ones discussing the school lockdowns and soon found out that FOX news wasn't what CNN had told them it was.

You don't have to look any further than things like Ivermectin being used successfully in many of the outher civilised countires or natural immunity after having Covid being recognized. Both of which this regime refuse to accpet. Hell they even went a far as saying Ivermectin is dangerous for humans although it's been approved for humans for many years ... LOL. The US govornment would rather control us than give us options. That's a fact and the only question is why and I think we all know that answer ... $$$$$

"Unvaccinated people" aren't necessarily anti-vaxxers. And more to the point, People who don't trust "Big Pharma and corrupt doctors" aren't necessarily anti-vaxxers. Large groups of people have been leery of "Big Pharma and corrupt doctors" for as long as I can remember, so I'm not sure where you were going with that logic.

Are you saying it's ok to be untrusting of "Big Pharma and Corrupt Doctors" when it comes to profits margins, lobbying and bribing politicians that make the laws, and rigging the laws in their favor.

But now everyone is supposed to trust "Big Pharma and corrupt doctors" when they develop a vaccine that only fits the definition of vaccine when the the actual definition of the word is changed. A "vaccine" that has the vast majority of the doses paid for by the U.S. government. A "vaccine" that has only been approved for less than 6 months. A "vaccine" that has specific laws in place to protect the companies "profit makers" from any lawsuits or liability.

I wonder how much "Big Pharma" has made off the taxpayers through direct payments from the U.S. Government for this "vaccine"? I wonder how much "Big Pharma" stock is up from this "vaccine"? I wonder how much politicians on the LEFT & RIGHT have made off this vaccine through donations and stock appreciation?

If you follow the money, it's clear what's happening. To me, the way this is being handled is no different than what "Big Pharma and corrupt doctors" have been doing all along. It's funny how people flip flop on issues when it suits their political agenda.

But then again, maybe "Big Pharma and corrupt doctors" have fundamentally changed their ways and now put the well being of people over profits. So Spider, do you trust "Big Pharma and corrupt doctors" or not?

CF Dolfan either has a vivid imagination or is personally friends with almost every single person to switch from R to D in the last 20 years. 

At this point, if you have voluntarily chosen not to get a free and readily available vaccine for a disease that has killed nearly a million Americans in the last 2 years, and it's not because your doctor has told you that you should not get it, you're an anti-vaxxer.  If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

First: I'm not talking about people who "don't trust Big Pharma and corrupt doctors" but get vaccinated anyway.  I'm talking about the anti-vaxxers.
Second: Most of the people who "don't trust Big Pharma and corrupt doctors" seem to be the same ones sucking down corporate ivermectin, and screaming for corrupt doctors to give them Big Pharma monoclonal antibodies when they get sick.

I would absolutely trust and rely on "Big Pharma and corrupt doctors" to save my life if I were in a medical emergency... just like all the rest of these anti-vaxxers are when they catch a serious case of COVID. So the answer is "yes."

For the overwhelming majority of anti-vaxxers, "Big Pharma and corrupt doctors" is not an actual, genuine objection.  It's an excuse that allows them to do what they want when they want to.  Again, they claim to "distrust Big Pharma" as they mainline hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin.

I don't really get the Ivermectin thing.

I think it's some weird obsession on the right, but I don't give one shit about Ivermectin, one way or the other.  If it was a functional treatment that the doctor recommended, I'd take it.  If they tell me that the dangers outweigh the risks, I wouldn't.  I don't have a vested interest in which medicine works or doesn't.  ...same with Hydroxychloriquine from before.

I am not fully up on Ivermectin (because why would I be) but as I understand it, it's not helpful (enough) against COVID vs. the other damage it causes.  But the drug is used for other things sucessfully.   That seems reasonable to me.

But Ivermectin isn't a left vs. right thing.  The left isn't against Ivermectin.  It's whatever the doctors prescribe.  I don't think you can make a doctor prescribe something for you that they don't agree with the treatment, though.  I don't know if that's a political issue or what.

I just read a New York Times article that indicated that getting COVID at all is greatly reduced when vaccinated, even with Omicron.

I may have to change my position on mandates based on that.

I knew that you could get it and that break-through cases used to be rare, but now aren't.  ...but it still seems that you're much likelier to contract COVID if unvaccinated.  I was wrong about that.

Hey Dave, put up a poll to see who supports or opposes government Covid vaccine mandates. Be interesting to see the results. I can't figure out how to do it

While we're on the subject of corrupt entities pushing false information because it makes them money:

Anti-vaxxers making ‘at least $2.5m’ a year from publishing on Substack (https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/jan/27/anti-vaxxers-making-at-least-25m-a-year-from-publishing-on-substack)

"A group of vaccine-sceptic writers are generating revenues of at least $2.5m (£1.85m) a year from publishing newsletters for tens of thousands of followers on the online publishing platform Substack, according to new research.

Prominent figures in the anti-vaccine movement including Dr Joseph Mercola and Alex Berenson have large followings on Substack, which has more than 1 million paying subscribers who sign up for individual newsletters from an array of authors who include novelist Salman Rushdie, the writer musician Patti Smith and former Downing Street adviser Dominic Cummings.

Mercola, a US alternative medicine doctor and prolific producer of anti-vaccine content, and Alex Berenson, a journalist banned from Twitter last year after questioning the efficacy of Covid-19 vaccines, are among five vaccine sceptics on the platform who earn themselves and Substack a minimum of $2.5m a year from their newsletters. Under Substack’s business model, writers keep about 90% of the subscription income, with the platform taking 10% and payment company Stripe charging the writers 3% of their take.

Research by the Center for Countering Digital Hate, a campaign group, showed that Mercola’s newsletters made a minimum of $1m a year from charging subscribers an annual fee of $50, with Berenson making at least $1.2m from charging people $60. Three other vaccine sceptic newsletters, from tech entrepreneur Steven Kirsch, virologist Robert Malone and anonymous writer Eugyppius, generate about $300,000 between them."

So we are supposed to distrust virtually every medical organization and pharmaceutical company on the planet because of their overt greed, but when specific individuals PERSONALLY make millions from peddling anti-science BS, they are Bold Truth Tellers.

Do you suppose that those people are liable?  If he's a doctor using his platform to push things that he knows are bunk, but is doing it for the money -- does that not open him up to malpractice claims?

No.

In America at least, a doctor must be licensed to professionally practice medicine.
These scammers are simply exercising their right of free speech to tell people harmful things.  You don't need a degree or a license to tell people that washing your hands is a plot by the lizard people to strip away your essential oils.

I understand the difference.  I thought this Joseph Mercola guy was an MD....but I haven't looked him up or anything.  Maybe he's a chiropractor or something.

There are plenty of legit Drs and Scientists who are constanly silenced. Most notbaly Dr. Robert Malone was banned from Twitter for violating the platform's COVID-19 misinformation policies. Soon after, YouTube removed videos of a controversial interview he did with Spotify podcast host Joe Rogan.  He was a big part of the research team who developed the mRNA vaccine technology now used in the COVID-19 vaccines. They like to discredit him and say he is "lying" becuase he said he invented it and not a research team. I've heard him tell his story and it wasn't loke that at all but thank god they have semantics on their side so they can ban him for his "lies". hahahaha

Yay, more whining about being "silenced."

So the day after Malone was banned from Twitter, he went on the most popular podcast on the internet, and then shortly after that, spoke on the most watched cable news network in the country (https://www.foxnews.com/media/dr-robert-malone-joe-rogan-covid-ingraham-twitter-ban-youtube-censorship).  This dynamic is what conservatives describe as "being silenced."

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Djf-zdQUYAAhPkQ?format=jpg&name=medium)


Interesting.  So I guess you consider a direct quote from his own (pre-ban) Twitter account profile (https://archive.fo/6pV86#selection-587.0-587.43) to be "semantics"?

(http://viperbeam.com/forum/maloneprofile.jpg)

conservative voices are being silenced. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPNZTtoQBmA

To clarify: Mercola may actually be an MD, but shitposting on Substack is not practicing medicine (because you don't need a license for the former).  So I doubt he would be legally liable.