The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

There is much talk about coaches in other threads but we need a place to keep up with their moves. 

The Dolphins have just released Gerald Alexander which is a bit of a surprise. I know he interviewed for a defensive coordinator position but he didn't get it. They fired him so he still gets paid. not sure why they let him go as he was responsible for our DBs and they have been very good.

At this point we have retained our special teams coach Danny Crossman and hired Jon Embree from San Fran as tight ends coach/assistant head coach. 

The only position I'm interested in is who will be the O-line coach.

Looks like Wes Welker is coming back to coach the WRs

Glad to have a familiar face back in the fold.   The Patriots signing him as a RFA made history because the NFL then clamped down on "poison pill" contracts.

To me this is literally more important than who our OC will be. No protection and your QB and RB suffer.

We're keeping Josh Boyer as our DC.  Rumor is Fangio is taking a year off so it would make sense on keeping Boyer.

I liked McDaniel's answer about keeping "Josh" and the defense.  I'm paraphrasing but he said as an offensive guy you want to have a defense that you wouldn't want to play against and based on how our defense kicked his butt last year he wouldn't want to play them again. HAHAHAHA

But then the question is: Who was running the defense during the 1st half of the season vs the 2nd half of the season last year? I've read reports that Boyer started the year during the losing streak and then Flores took over during the win streak. But then you see things like this that indicate the opposite.

(https://i.ibb.co/ZgF1qyM/x13tkxs0.png) (https://imgbb.com/)

Boyer came from NE with Flores. Maybe, just maybe it was Boyer who was the real defensive guy and Flores was just the other guy. Probably something we'll never know though.

You will have a good idea this time next year....   

If the defense is just as good or better next year, than Boyer was likely a major part of this year's defensive successes.  OTOH, if the defense declines than Boyer was just following Flores's plan. 

I agree with Hoodie. This year will tell us almost everything we need to know about Josh Boyer. they released Alexander not because he was a bad coach but because he was too close to Flores. I wonder how they determined others weren't as close.

We are keeping 4 of the 6 defensive coaches which hopefully means there is some consistancy there.

McDaniel — who disclosed in a WQAM radio interview Friday that he’s retaining defensive coordinator Josh Boyer — also is keeping defensive line coach Austin Clark, linebackers coach Anthony Campanile, cornerbacks coach Charles Burks and special teams coordinator Danny Crossman, according to a source. So four of the six primary 2021 Dolphins defensive coaches are staying under McDaniel.

Miami parted with defensive backs coach Gerald Alexander for reasons that are unclear, and outside linebackers coach Rob Leonard took the same job with the Baltimore Ravens. Meanwhile, Eric Studesville — who was the Dolphins’ co-offensive coordinator and running backs coach this past season — will remain on staff as running backs coach. Studesville has 21 years of experience as an NFL running backs coach and is well respected in the league. With the Dolphins, he helped developed Myles Gaskin, who has exceeded expectations as a seventh-round pick.

Read more at: https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article258301453.html#storylink=cpy

Read more at: https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/barry-jackson/article258301453.html#storylink=cpy

While I have questions about the fit between McDaniel's apparent personality and being a head coach in the NFL, I have no questions about whether he can recognize whether a defensive coordinator is suitable to be on his staff.

The Wes Welker hire is tremendous.  The Ohio State Buckeyes have the best receivers in the country almost every year because Brian Hartline is their receivers' coach and he is stellar.  Welker will get immediate respect from the players and help them maximize their games.

Just hired the O-line coach from Boston College. Coached at Davidson before that. Can’t say I’m too excited about that. I was really hoping for someone with a lot of experience. First time NFL coach doesn’t seem very promising for a group that historically has underachieved year after year.

Boston College has the 2nd best O-line ranked by PFF in all of CFB

I hear what you're saying, but at the same time no good O-Line coach in the NFL can be poached without a promotion. Their teams wouldn't let them leave if they were that good. So, getting one of the best O-Line guys from college is the best we could hope for. I'm cool with this.

I think the transition will be fine since O-Line guys tend to transition well into the NFL once drafted.

Oline is relatively young; rookies and guys with only a couple years in the league might relate to a college coach better than a 10 year vet would. 

Players will respect any coach who can teach them to be a better player, don’t respond well to coaches that can only criticize.   

and it's not like this guy has 0 NFL experience.. he coached with McDaniel in washington

Experience with our new HC and coached one of the best O-Lines in college. Honestly, couldn't realistically ask for a better hire.

In other news, it looks like we're hiring Chargers run game coordinator/offensive line coach Frank Smith as OC. (https://www.si.com/nfl/dolphins/news/miami-dolphins-hiring-frank-smith-as-offensive-coordinator)

^^

McDaniel is not messing around when it comes to fixing the O-Line. Very happy to see that.

Does the o-line need better coaching or better players?

It can definitely benefit from removing Jesse Davis but we spent some good draft picks on the line and I think there is some talent there. Like I said elsewhere a bunch, Solomon and Jackson forgot how to play football in one offseason? Eichenberg is a disaster? Seems unlikely. I can understand them not being Pro Bowlers but they were historically bad and I don't believe that is their talent level but I will if they are also historically bad this season.

The Dolphins' pass block win rate -- arguably the best measure we have of pass protection at the present time -- was 47% in 2021.  The Bengals' pass block win rate in 2021 was 49%, second-worst in the league, and their pass block win rate in last night's game was an extremely low 14%, yet they lost by only three points to presumably the best team in the league in the most important game of the season, with a fine passing performance by their QB against a very good defense.

All of the above gives us an idea of how strongly pass protection is related to winning in the present-day game.  Poor offensive line play can be overcome by other facets of the game.

The perception that the Dolphins' 2021 offensive line was "historically" bad is exaggerated, and you'll never see any opinion that it was "historically" bad alongside any objective comparison of other offensive lines historically.  I'd be shocked if anyone can come up with a single tweet or other piece of information that compares the Dolphins' 2021 offensive line to other offensive lines historically using objectively measured data and concludes that it was indeed "historically bad."

When you're watching the Dolphins' offensive line play as poorly as it did in 2021, realize three things:  1) the best offensive line in the league isn't playing better than that to anywhere near the degree you may think, as variation in offensive line play throughout the league is far smaller than variation in some other areas of the game (like QB play for example), 2) offensive line play is weakly correlated with winning in the NFL, and 3) there are QBs who can perform very well with a comparable level of offensive line play -- e.g., Joe Burrow in 2021 and in the Super Bowl.

The same measure for the Dolphins the season before was 51% and ranked 27th according to ESPN.

https://www.espn.com.au/nfl/story/_/id/29939464/2020-nfl-pass-rushing-run-stopping-blocking-leaderboard-win-rate-rankings

So this measure indicates our OL has gone backwards this season, right?

As for "historically bad", I think you can take Edge's comment as quite literal in the specific cases of Jackson and Kindley (who were far better rookies).

To continue the usage of the Super Bowl as a data point: last year saw arguably the best QB in the league get swarmed in the Super Bowl due to poor play from an OL depleted by injuries.

I don't think OL performance vs. QB play in the Super Bowl are quite the determining factors you suggest.

Illustrates the point very well:  you have two Super Bowls there with poor pass protection, one of them featuring poor QB play and a lopsided loss (31-9), and the other featuring good QB play and a loss by only three points, with the ability to win the game on the final drive.

When pass protection is poor across a sufficient sample games and they nonetheless unfold in dramatically different fashion, pass protection can't possibly be a strong predictor of winning in the NFL.  The strong predictors of winning in the NFL are the other variables that make those games unfold in dramatically different fashion, despite the similarity in poor pass protection across them.

These two games aren't anywhere near a sufficient sample to determine the finding, but when we gather a sufficient sample we find the same thing -- pass protection isn't associated with anywhere near enough of the variation in winning across the league to be a strong predictor of it.

Is better OL play and QB protection a good or bad thing? I'm not even sure what you're trying to argue. From all accounts McDaniel is trying to fix the OL, to me that's a good thing for a unit that's been bad for as long as I can remember. What's your point?

Every team has limited resources (draft picks and salary cap money) with which to improve itself.  If you go thinking you need an exceptional offensive line to win a Super Bowl and you pour resources into attaining such an offensive line at the expense of allocating resources toward areas of the team that actually are strongly related to winning, you're less likely to win a Super Bowl than if you allocated your resources as a function of what predicts winning.

The Jacksonville Jaguars just paid their offensive linemen more than any other team in the league in 2021 ($51M+) and finished 3-14 on the season, with the third-worst passer rating in the league.  Clearly their exorbitant expenditure of resources on offensive linemen didn't get them anywhere near the promised land, nor did it extract anything special from Trevor Lawrence.  The Cincinnati Bengals on the other hand spent about half that much on their offensive line ($25.6M) and came within roughly 50 yards of a Super Bowl win with arguably the best QB in the league in 2021.

If you want the Dolphins to win a Super Bowl, you'd better hope Chris Grier and company are thinking along these lines, as opposed to making stupid mistakes with their limited resources.

To be clear:
Burrow's QBR in Super Bowl LVI was 39.7.
Mahomes' QBR in Super Bowl LV was 42.2.

Seems like QB play wasn't the difference.

Even if we agree just for the sake of argument that Mahomes played better than Burrow in those games, we'd still be functioning within the realm of single games (two of them), where virtually anything can explain an outcome while possibly remaining a weak predictor of winning overall in the NFL.

I'm sure we can find a game where punting or kick returning won the game for example; obviously that doesn't mean teams should be spending first-round draft picks on punters and kick returners and making them among their highest-paid players.  What should determine that allocation of resources is what makes teams most likely to win games (i.e., the strongest predictors of winning in the game), and certainly QB play resides above offensive line play in that equation.

I wasn't aware that"Dolphins Coaches" that we're hiring to fix the OL had any correlation to the limited resources (draft picks and salary cap money) to which your argument is based. Nor does it have anything to with your "predictors of winning" nonsense you keep repeating over and over.

From the looks of it, they're simply trying to fix a problem area that the Dolphins have had for a long time. Now answer the question. Is better OL play and QB protection a good or bad thing? It's a simple question.

Take a hike pal.  I don't continue conversations with people who speak to me in that manner.

If we want to get better, we need to improve our areas of weakness and nothing is more glaring than our O-Line. Not impossible but very hard to establish a run game like our new coach wants to with our O-Line. Improve the line and the run game gets improved with it as should the passing game as long as Tua has functional humans to throw the ball to. Right now, he has 2 if we don't let Gesicki walk.

Also, Burrow hurt his knee again but won't require surgery like he did last year. His O-Line is killing him and our O-Line got Tua's ribs broken already. So, it isnt just about can you overcome a bad line, can your QB survive one?

I have no problem with the argument that we should not use single-game samples as indicative of anything worth measuring.  But that premise is not compatible with pointing at the game two days ago as "proof" that OL play is overrated as a factor in team success.

The point was merely that the Bengals' offensive line was poor throughout the year and wasn't any better Sunday, thus underscoring that their offensive line play was dispositionally (not situationally) poor, though they played well overall in 2021 regardless.  Had their offensive line played poorly Sunday after playing well all year, I certainly wouldn't have used the game to support the idea that offensive line play is relatively unimportant with regard to winning at a high level.

(https://img.search.brave.com/QC_JaquFn8PlSobrKD7nNg7PmgIN7yUEprYr2hRMfCM/rs:fit:500:573:1/g:ce/aHR0cHM6Ly9waWNz/Lm1lLm1lL3R5bGVy/LWNvbndheS1qdHls/ZXJjb253YXktbGV2/ZWxzLW9mLXdoaXRl/LWFuZ2VyLXJhbmtl/ZC02LXNvbi00MjUw/MzcxNC5wbmc)

He must be angry, he's #2 on the scale.

He just doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. Yeah, let's NOT fix the OL. Seems like a rational plan, right?

Don't you just hate it when people see through your nonsense and all you have to counter with is righteous indignation?   I think everyone here has seen by now that you don't know very much about football so the best way to save face would just be to hop on your tricycle and peddle on down the sidewalk to another neighborhood where people are dumb enough to buy into meaningless analytics which are spun to "prove" false claims.   

Just noticed this on social media. The Dolphins are expected to hire longtime NFL offensive coordinator Darrell Bevell as quarterbacks coach/pass game coordinator (https://www.si.com/nfl/dolphins/news/miami-dolphins-reportedly-set-to-hire-darrell-bevell-as-qb-coach)

Wrong.  I've been told by the person running the forum to "keep posting -- I enjoy your insight."

I don't need anyone's validation to believe what I believe and post it, but you need to know you're wrong in grandiosely speaking for "everyone here."  When you have to summon "everyone here" in support of what you're saying, you're revealing you're on weak ground and need some sort of mythical buttressing you can't possibly obtain.  Nobody will ever get everybody on a message board to agree about any one thing, but somehow you have! :D

I have a great family and a successful career and I'm surrounded by love and happiness in my life, and I wish for nothing but the best for you and everyone else here in that regard as well.  I'll keep posting whatever I want as long as it's within the forum rules.  If that doesn't work for you for whatever reason then I'd recommend you go somewhere else. :)

Strawman argument.  If you read the posts I've made recently here you'll see I'm simply recommending that the team doesn't devote exorbitant resources to the attempt to attain an exceptional offensive line, because it's clear one isn't needed to win a Super Bowl, and that attempt may detract from the team's ability to devote resources to areas that actually are strongly related to Super Bowl-level play.

Once again, the Jaguars just spent more than any team in the league on offensive linemen and finished 3-14, while the Bengals spent half that much on offensive linemen, to the tune of the second-worst pass protection in the league in 2021 (barely above the Dolphins in that regard), and came within 50 yards of winning the Super Bowl.

You don't need an exceptional offensive line to play at a Super Bowl level.  What you do need however is exceptional play in other areas, and so that's where you should devote the bulk of your resources.

We can't have exceptional play in other areas without a better O-Line. Tua is throwing the ball 3 yards because he doesn't have the time, it's a minor miracle Waddle had any catches this year since he was the primary target almost the whole game. Our RBs get tackled as soon as they touch the ball. I know the point you are trying to make and we shouldn't cut players just to make salary cap room for the O-Line, but it is the #1 offseason priority by far and it has to be treated as such. I don't think Tua can thrive with the line we have right now, not many QBs can aside from the MVPs and Future MVPs like Mahomes and Burrow.

If you're advocating for the expenditure of an average amount of resources in the attempt to attain an average offensive line, I can go along with that.  Tua and company shouldn't need any better a line than that to succeed at the necessary level, if they indeed have sufficient talent themselves.

The strongest predictor of winning in the NFL is EPA per pass dropback (i.e., the offensive passing game).  The correlation between EPA per pass dropback and pass block win rate (i.e., pass protection), team-by-team in 2021, was 0.37, meaning that about 86% of the variance in EPA per pass dropback throughout the league is associated with things other than pass block win rate.

Moreover, the correlation between pass block win rate (pass protection) and amount of salary cap money devoted to offensive linemen, team-by-team in 2021, was a mere 0.29, meaning that about 92% of the variance in pass block win rate throughout the league is associated with things other than salary cap money devoted to offensive linemen.

So, there is a weak connection between pass protection and the strongest predictor of winning in the NFL -- the offensive passing game.  There is also a weak connection between pass protection and the amount of salary cap money spent on it.

With all that said you can safely go about improving other areas of the team and expecting greater returns on your investments.  Receiver play for example is more strongly related to the offensive passing game than is pass protection.  I would recommend this team focus more on improving its receiving corps than on improving its pass protection.  Certainly it can attempt to do both, but I would prioritize the receiving corps.

Oh yeah, our Receving corps is priority #2. We only have 2 guys and one is a free agent right now. I don't think we need the 90's Cowboys O-Line but if we can crack the Top 18 I think it will improve every faucet of our game. Myabe even defense sinc ethey will have more rest from us not going 3 and Out.

I am praying the issue was with coaching because that means we just need to upgrade at RT and Center and the rest could be set. Jesse Davis should be shot into the sun, no saving him.

Ok.  I was pretty much done with what has become a social justice warrior website anyway.  Thanks for the good conversations over the years everyone. 

It used to stay in the off-topic area but seems to bleed into the football forums more and more these days. Don't let it bring you down.

I think the part you're missing regarding the Bengals is Joe Mixon had the 3rd most rushing yards this season, so while their pass blocking wasn't very good their run blocking was excellent.  The Dolphins have neither a good pass block or run block.  We need to spend somewhere between what the Bengals spend and what the Jags spent to improve our Oline.

Come on Dolph, don't go. Don't you want to talk about the strongest "predictor of winning" just a bit more LMAO?

The Bengals' run game was 22nd in the league in EPA per rush in 2021.  What made them distinctive was their 9th-best passing game in the league in EPA per pass dropback, the strongest predictor of winning in the league, which again surmounted their poor pass blocking.

Did the Bengals shitty OLine have something to do with them losing the SB? Yes.

Also did their OLine have anything to do with Burrow's leg almost getting snapped like a chicken wing at Hooters. Yes.

Did our shitty OL also have anything to do with Tua cracked ribs which resulted in BBQ Brisket losing several games for us. Yes.

So he's saying that the Dolphins and the Bengals both have shitty Olines, but the difference is that we have Tua and they have Burrow. This whole line of reasoning is a thinly veiled attempt to basically say that he thinks Tua sucks. And that's fine, but just come out and say it instead of hiding behind some silly "predictor of winning" nonsense. And just to be clear, hiring coordinator, coaches, and assistants to fix the OL isn't devoting exorbitant resources and has nothing to do with draft picks and salary cap money.

Hey, I have a question for everyone. Who here thinks the Dolphins need to fix the offensive line? Yes or no? Maybe we should put up a poll.

Please stop being shitty to each other.  You can have disagreements about football matters without being jerks....the whole point of this website is to argue about football matters.

And yes, I believe we should improve our O-line.

UPDATED DOLPHINS COACHING STAFF

Head coach: Mike McDaniel
Offensive coordinator: Frank Smith
Defensive coordinator: Josh Boyer
Special teams coordinator: Danny Crossman
QB coach/run game coordinator: Darrell Bevell (per report)
Running backs coach/associate head coach: Eric Studesville
Wide receivers coach: Wes Welker
Tight ends coach/assistant head coach: Jon Embree
Offensive line coach: Matt Applebaum (per report)
Defensive line coach: Austin Clark
Linebackers coach: Anthony Campanile
Outside linebackers coach: Tyrone McKenzie
Defensive backs coach: TBD
Cornerbacks coach: Charles Burks

Agreed. We're all men here, so let's just talk about what a disaster the 19th Amendment has been for America and what we can do to fix it.

I am so stoked about our coaching staff.  This is the difference between McDaniel and Flores, experienced coordinators want to work with McDaniel.  I think we already have nice pieces in place on the oline for a zone blocking scheme, plus adding 2 nice Vets in free agency and perhaps Linderbaum C, Iowa with our first round pick would turn our Oline from a weakness into a strength almost instantly.

I really like our O-Line Coach hire. Couldn't have realistically gotten anyone better since great O-Line coaches in the NFL are always under contract and you can't poach them without a promotion. McDaniel himself being so heavy into running games knows how the lines work and can improve as well.

It wouldn't matter what QB a team had -- my perspective on the resources a team should allocate to the offensive line wouldn't change, because the relationship between pass blocking and what makes teams most likely to win (the offensive passing game) is relatively weak.  Contrary to conventional wisdom, a QB's and a team's performance in the passing game, over whole seasons, doesn't hinge to a large degree on its pass blocking.

The Dolphins should certainly strive to improve their offensive line, but they certainly shouldn't strive to improve it to the degree that it prevents valuable resources from being allocated toward areas of the team that are more responsible for winning in the NFL.

Receivers for example are more important than offensive lines.  The Dolphins would do better in 2022 by improving their receiving corps more than they would by improving their offensive line.

I like the coaching hires, it seems like McDaniel can field better assistants than Flores did

Adam Beasley kind of nailed it. The doom and gloom days of Flores are behind us. Now we are going to see if that works out for us as it has other teams.

I have to honestly say that it appears we have done very well in the coaches we've brought in. I guess it's the same old story of me getting optimistic in the offseason but for once it's for a different reason. Hahaha

Like I said elsewhere, most teams fire their coaches after losing seasons and half the time initiate a rebuild. We are coming off back to back winning seasons and are in good cap shape. I expect to compete for the division this year and I think McDaniel feels the same. There is no "wait and see" and that's refreshing for once.

Wow ... didn't see this coming. Pretty cool!

The Dolphins are hiring Sam Madison as their cornerbacks coach/pass game specialist, Adam Schefter of ESPN reports.

Madison, a four-time Pro Bowler with the Dolphins, spent the past three seasons coaching the Chiefs’ cornerbacks.

Still have my Madison jersey. So far, so good with the coaching hires. I don't think any of us felt good about anyone Flores hired, certainly not Chan Gailey and the Two OCs.

Hopefully Madison can help Igbinoghene out a bit. Might need to bring back Louis Oliver and Jarvis Williams(RIP) to pitch in also. Hell, Flores could have sabotaged him, kind of like all those times Gaskin was on the bench for no apparent reason.

Noah was not a 1st round talent at all but the kid has tremendous raw talent and a pedigree to boot. Might not turn into the next Patrick Surtain but it is surprising he can't even get on the field after 2 years.

Just another Flores fuck up, haha.

One day, I would really like to know who was in charge of drafting because there have been some terrible decisions that didn't even need hindsight to know they were wrong. I can't just throw it all on Flores.

Other than Noah and AJ, the drafting has been pretty stellar.  Both of those guys are super young too, only 22.  For comparison, Liam Eichenberg is 24.  Maybe with new coaching those guys can do better, AJ was projected as a zone blocking OT anyway.  Or maybe they're still dog doo, we'll see.

Grier. 

And now Patrick Surtain has joined the Dolphins as a defensive assistant. For those of you who don't know ... Patrick has been the head coach at American Heritage High in Plantation, FL and has been funneling players to Nick Saban for years.  But then again they have an NFL coaching tree. Along with Surtain, American Heritage’s staff has five other former NFL players — wide receiver Oronde Gadsden (Dallas Cowboys, Dolphins, Pittsburgh Steelers), linebacker Anthony Harris (Dolphins), defensive back Earl Little (Cleveland Browns, New England Patriots, New Orleans Saints), safety Daryl Porter (Buffalo Bills, Detroit Lions, Patriots, Tennessee Titans) and linebacker Van Waiters (Browns, Minnesota Vikings).

(https://www.mercurynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/202202181220TMS_____MNGTRPUB_SPORTS-DOLPHINS-HIRING-PATRICK-SURTAIN-AFTER-ADDING-1-FL5.jpg?w=500)

That's not what I hear.

Grier makes the official selection, but he gets coach approval.  He isn't a guy who makes his own roster -- he works on behalf of the coach.  That's his style, to craft the team the coach wants and that was the reason that he is well liked among the rest of the staff.  He's a real team player, they say.

He's definitely a coach's GM but ultimately it's his call.

Fantastic hire. Really loving this coaching staff being built and that includes keeping Boyer. Let's hope we keep the momentum going into free agency and don't only get depth pieces like last year. That did not work out well for us.

Amazing to see the best CB tandem this franchise has ever had is back together again!!!  Hopefully they can churn out more Pro Bowl CBs

IMO you can lump in Hunter Long in that group too. I have not seen one thing to date to suggest why we picked him instead of a much more pressing need.

It is pretty obvious Grier has the ultimate power in the org.  It is pretty unusual to get to pick 3 and fire 2 HC without getting canned yourself.  He also got rid of the vp of football ops.  So regardless of officially who has what power, Grier has won the power struggles.

So far the assistant coaching appointments are looking good - we wanted guys with prior success at their appointments, and it's looking like a big thumbs up there.

I'm ecstatic that we got Welker. In the NFC title game, at one stage they looked at the Niners bench and mentioned how important he was in developing their receivers and specifically Deebo Samuel... right at that moment I wished we had a guy on our staff to do the same for Waddle and co. Wish granted!

I'll keep an open mind... but I'm generally skeptical about a team hiring beloved stars from the glory days, in a way that I wouldn't be if the Dolphins were hiring Champ Bailey or Charles Woodson.

I say this while acknowledging that Madison is one of my favorite Dolphins ever.

I'll just leave this here to marinate:

They're are literally hiring ex-players and black ex-players. What's the problem? You should be happy.

Spider, I've told you a thousand times, you have to start being more congruent with your posts, hahaha

I added this part specifically to pre-empt exactly that kind of response.

Joke's on me though... I expected you would read it!