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This is brilliant.

https://www.comicsands.com/viral-memo-letting-florida-teachers-know-how-to-troll-don-t-say-gay-law-is-pure-fire-2657092882.html

The poorly written bill specifically designed to be anti-LQBTQ, was written extremely vague, in fact if implemented as written (as opposed to as intended) it bans the the use of all gender norm.

The only ones calling it the don't say gay bill are liberals.  Explain to me what's wrong about not talking about sexuality until after the 3rd grade.

Explain that to me.   Kids that young should not be learning about that stuff.  They are kids.   

You are correct that only liberals are calling it the don’t say gay bill.  Supporters of the law are claiming that anyone that is not cis heterosexual is a pedophile.  That is the problem.

The bill bars teachers from protecting children of homosexual parents from being bullied. 

Show me

Because it's NOT limited to K-3.
An excerpt (https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2022/1557/BillText/er/PDF) (emphasis added):

"Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."

So you tell me: which "state standard" explicitly establishes an appropriate age and/or development for discussion of sexual orientation or gender identity?  Because if such a standard doesn't actually exist, then any teacher in any grade can potentially be held liable.  Which is the point.

That's why it's being called the "don't say gay" bill: it is written in such a way that teachers cannot discuss sexual orientation or gender identity in any grade without exposing themselves to liability under this law.

As they should.   When I was a kid, I didn't even know if my teachers were married unless they said so, let alone their sexual orientation.  Why?  Because I was a kid.   Kids do not need to be learning about this stuff.   They need to be allowed to be kids and enjoy their childhood.   Believe me, it gets taken away quickly enough as it is.

Using semantics to argue against the law is you basically saying you don't care that teachers are talking about sex to little kids. That's f'd up no matter how you try to spin it. Even if teachers mean well it is absoultey opening the door for grooming kids that shouldn't be discussing sex with anyone other than their parents anyway.

When the law says something you don't like, suddenly it's "semantics."

The law was written to suppress LGBT children and humiliate the children of LGBT parents.  But because they tried to get cute with the wording, they have accidentally banned any reference to heterosexuality as well.  So now, in K-3, any reference to Mr. or Mrs., or husband or wife, or gender of any kind is now banned.

It'll be interesting to see how the homophobes and transphobes try to "fix" this law with a carve out that specifically allows teaching young kids about traditional gender roles, which is totally OK and not grooming at all.  Because teaching 9-year-olds about a nuclear family featuring a husband and wife is Wholesome Family Values, while teaching them that some families have two husbands or two wives is Perverse Indoctrination of Degeneracy.

Apparently because you didn't know what the title Mrs. means.

This law is stupid and a failure and solves nothing and only serves to stir up funding and harass gay people.  We will look back at it in shame.

I wish the people in Florida would actually govern things that matter.  For fuck's sake, we have actual real issues to deal with and 3rd graders getting groomed by gay people ain't one of them.

Dave, COVID is a fake plandemic that's nothing more than the flu.
The real dangers are child grooming and gay pedophiles, along with voting fraud; things that happen all the time, unlike COVID which doesn't really even do anything.

I do disagree with you on one thing, though: this law is absolutely not a failure.  Even if it's not enforced (or ruled unenforceable), it serves the same purpose as Trump's wall, or the policy that Trump himself repeatedly refers to as the "Muslim ban": it outrages the liberals, while instilling fear, uncertainty, and doubt in marginalized groups... even if it doesn't actually work.  So the law accomplishes everything it was intended to.

Always remember that policy is not the point for the right.  It's pure dominance politics.  This is how pro-free-market Republicans start cheering protectionist tariffs, or how self-styled Reagan Republicans now support Putin and Russia if they think it makes Democrats look bad.  It's Trump, it's Roy Moore, it's MTG and Boebert.  It's not an accident that the party of Denny Hastert, Mark Foley, Gym Jordan, and Matt Gaetz is the party going ballistic about stopping child predators; the whole exercise is intended to make it clear that they will persecute everyone else for their own failings (while continuing to elevate perpetrators in the GOP).

Slick move cutting my post down to fit your liberal agenda.   Little kids don't need to know what Mrs. means.  They only need to know to call their teachers Mr. or Mrs. <last name>.   

I knew the marital status of everyone of my primary teachers.  "Miss" = unmarried.  "Mrs." = married.  I didn't have a "Mr." until middle school.  And the first "Ms." was in high school and that was considered scandalous on her behalf.

My second grade teacher was a lesbian.  But I didn't know it at the time.  She was fired when for being a lesbian when I was in third grade.  When she was fired I like many of my classmates where curious why being she was a great teacher.  We were told it was because she likes girls but didn't like boys.  Which made no sense to us third graders (or her current 2nd graders) as she treated us all very fairly, nobody thought she favored the girls in the class or was unfair to the boys in class.  (Unlike our current third grade teacher who definitely had favorites and other students she treated unfairly).

What I learned in high school was she told people she was heterosexual but shared a 2 bedroom apartment with a college friend to save money.  (Levine and Shirley style) Other teachers in the school were suspicious as she didn't talk about dating/boyfriends etc.  In a failed attempt to put rumors to rest she brought a "boyfriend" the the faculty Xmas party.  Unfortunately, one of the husbands of another teacher knew he was in fact gay and that he was a sham date.  She was fired shortly thereafter.  Learned this from an article in the school newspaper a classmate of mine had ran into her while on vacation and found all this out and wrote up a story. 

But back to the law.  Kids in kindergarten aren't being taught the details of sex and this law is not designed to stop teachers from teaching about anal sex, because they aren't teaching that now.  The aim of this bill is when a kid is bullying Heather because rather than Heather having a mom and dad, she has has two moms, the teacher runs the risk of being sued by the homophobic bullies mom if the teacher says it is okay to have two moms or two dads. 

And as for the purpose of sex ed.  One of the driving forces behind sex ed in schools was a priest.  It began with a eulogy he had to give for a girl who committed suicide. She left a note explaining why she killed herself.  She knew she was dying and was going to die a painful death and rather than suffer she ended her own life.  She was in pain and she was bleeding inside.  The blood was dripping out of where she peed.  But let's leave it up to parents to tell kids everything they need to know about sex.     




 

Yes, I understand the belief that the existence of families with same-sex parents should be erased from school, banned from any mention by the teachers because pedophilia or some nonsense.  While this is a ridiculous and absurd position, it is at least a straightforward one, so there was no need for me to rebut it directly.

Instead, I chose to address your claim that as a kid, you had no idea which of your teachers were and were not married.  And as Hoodie already pointed out, this is information that has been readily available to schoolchildren with female teachers for essentially as long as school has existed in this country; so much so that the advent of a method for a female teacher to avoid disclosing her marital status is itself a rather recent development that still has some level of stigma attached in much of the country.

You are very wrong Dave. It's meant to give parents protection from having someone's else's morals shoved down their kid's throat's.  Unfortunately I wouldn't have ever thought we'd need a law to stop drag queen reading time in public elemntary schools but in this day and age we do.

Nope its goal is the exact opposite.  Its goal is deny parents the right to protect their children from having hateful morals shoved down their children's throats.

You’re example is a perfect illustration of how stupid this law is.  “Drag queen reading time” isn’t a thing.  Passing a law to prevent something that does exist is stupid.

Based on your history I'm guessing you just are leaving out the actual facts and already know this but

https://nypost.com/2021/05/22/doe-treats-nyc-students-to-virtual-drag-queen-story-hour/

https://www.christianheadlines.com/contributors/michael-foust/drag-queen-story-hour-moves-into-public-schools-the-1st-graders-loved-it.html

Or as they say on their official page https://www.dragqueenstoryhour.org/

 Drag Queen Story Hour events are happening all over the world at libraries, schools, bookstores, museums, summer camps, afterschool programs, and other community spaces! Each chapter is independently operated and funded. Click on the links below to connect with your local chapter

UNITED STATES
ALABAMA
Mobile

ARIZONA
Arizona

CALIFORNIA
Los Angeles
Palm Springs
San Diego
San Francisco Bay Area

COLORADO
Boulder

Northern Colorado

CONNECTICUT
Danbury

FLORIDA
Miami
Tampa Bay

GEORGIA
Atlanta

HAWAII
Hawaii

ILLINOIS
Bloomington

Chicago

INDIANA
Indianapolis

KENTUCKY
Louisville

MARYLAND
Baltimore
Montgomery County

MASSACHUSETTS
Boston

NEBRASKA
Lincoln

 

NEW JERSEY
New Jersey

NEW YORK
Ithaca
Long Island
New York City
Westchester

NORTH CAROLINA
Charlotte
Triangle Area (Chapel Hill, Durham, Raleigh)

OHIO
Cleveland

OREGON
Portland

PENNSYLVANIA
Reading

Pittsburgh

PUERTO RICO
Puerto Rico

 

RHODE ISLAND
Block Island

TENNESSEE
Tennessee

TEXAS
El Paso

UTAH
Salt Lake City

VERMONT
Vermont

VIRGINIA
 DC Metro Area

WASHINGTON, DC
DC Metro Area

WISCONSIN
Milwaukee

INTERNATIONAL CHAPTERS
ASIA
Tokyo

 
CANADA
Canada

AUSTRALIA
Western Australia

 

EUROPE
Berlin
Copenhagen
Sweden

 

MÉXICO
Ciudad Aguascalientes

Ciudad Juárez

Guadalajara

León

Mérida

México City

Monterrey

Oaxaca

Playa del Carmen

San Miguel de Allende

What's immoral about drag?  Depending on the content of the show, drag itself is totally kid appropriate.

No it is not.   Little kids do not need to be learning about drag queens or gender identifications in schools.   That's something they either learn from their parents if the parents choose to teach them, or find out about when they are older and more mature enough to make their own decisions.   

The problem with this liberal agenda is that you are going to have little kids growing up confused and not knowing who they are by the time they reach their 20s.  That can and will trigger depression which leads to drug addition, crime, suicide, etc....

If you're confused about your own sexuality because another man wears a dress, it ain't about the man in the dress - it's about you.

And it's the PARENT'S job to help kids get unconfused and teach them about that stuff, not the public school system's.   Every kid is unique and you can't have uniqueness in a uniform curriculum.

It's so dumb that we're passing legislation over shit like this.  What the fuck is wrong with you people?

How about getting my phone to stop ringing 10 times a day with someone trying to steal my money?  How about the cost of housing here?

Can we do something about these things?

Edit: Modified to add that even I hate my own logic here.  I know you can walk and chew gum at the same time, but it certainly seems like our state politicians are putting effort into things like naming the official winner of swim meets based on gender, fighting schools about masking, and now shit like this, while simultaneously ignoring major shit where actually need legislation to fight real issues.

So you're ok with this guy watching your kids? 
(https://www.dailynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/storycropped.jpg?w=226)

I mean....I don't know who that is and I don't let strangers watch my kids, in general, but yes -- I don't find people in drag to be dangerous deviants or anything.

I'd definitely take my kids to watch age appropriate drag shows.  Just the other day, I had a drag performance saved that I thought they'd really like and I showed it to them and they got a good laugh out of the surprise of it.

It was this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=048WnAatbPA

Starts at about :30....awesomeness at 1:25.


Drag is an art form like anything else.  ....it has a really positive message in most cases about loving yourself and confidence and being kind.  If you think drag is de-facto inappropriate, you probably don't have enough familiarity with it.

Okay, I stand corrected it is a thing.  But a harmless thing.  In fact a beneficial thing. 

Saying that is okay for one group of people to wear dresses but not another is sexism.  And is objectively wrong.   And illegal.   And unconstitutional.  One of the basic goals of primary schools is teach children to get along with people who are different from them.  DeSantos wants to make the basic goal of primary school is to ostracize anyone that does not conform to his narrow view of the world. 

This is pretty simple for me.  I don't think it's appropriate for kindergarten through 3rd grade to teach my son about sexuality.  Anything regarding sexuality and morals is a parents duty to teach their child, not the school system.  I applaud the law as I don't try to read into it more than it is like the people on the left are doing.  Desantis 2024.

The law could have easily been written to only apply to K-3.
It was intentionally written otherwise so it would be applied to students in every grade.

I don't interpret it that way, but I still don't care.  Teach my kid math, history, English, etc. It isn't their job to teach about sexuality.  If my kid has questions about that sort of thing, and I'm sure he will, my wife or I can answer those. 

It's not about teaching them sexuality.  Nobody is teaching 1st graders about gay sex. 

But there are realities about the world -- you just used the word "wife" casually.  What is a wife?  What is marriage?  Why are some people Mrs. and some Ms.?

It is a reality that some families have two moms.  To deny a teacher's ability to discuss that is hampering and ultimately will be damaging.  And really, what it will do is cause kids to be outcast that have those realities.  It's a shame.

Also -- this isn't sexuality.

Some kids are gonna have two dads in their family structure.  That is a fact.  Nobody is describing their anal.

When you tell a kid what's someone's wife is, details of how they fuck isn't part of it.  But to allow a teacher to mention a wife of a man, but not a husband -- that's real bad, man.  Bad for kids.  And it's not saving anyone from anything.

It's not the teacher's responsibility to discuss that.   Only to stop bullying.   If parents want to discuss that with their children, it's fine.   It should be left up to the parents, not the public school system.

Y'all claim that... but this entire thread shows otherwise.  When Hoodie posts a letter from a teacher saying that, as per this law, they will not be referring to husbands or wives, nor using any gender-specific title, suddenly liberals are using semantics to read more into the law than there is.

You are perfectly fine with 2nd graders referring to Mr. So-and-so or Miss Whoever.
You are perfectly fine with 2nd graders learning about George Washington and his wife Martha, and at no time do you infer that learning about them involves their teacher explaining how they had sex.
You are NOT fine with 2nd graders hearing anything about two men who are married to each other, and insist that any discussion of such is inherently sexual grooming.

The only kind of indoctrination you want to see at schools is heterosexual cisgender indoctrination.  You know, normal stuff.  It's only those deviant alternative lifestyles that you want to protect children from.

Here (https://twitter.com/Robbiepierce/status/1514127186214621185) is a relevant example of the types of experiences that we will see going forward as the GOP continues with the demonization of LGBT Americans.  Remember this when conservatives insist that Drag Queen Story Hour is the real danger:

Well that didn't take long. We decided to take a trip on Amtrak with the kids for spring break. 9 hours into a pleasant ride, a man was suddenly standing next to me, shouting across me at my 6yo son, "Remember what I told you. They stole you. They're pedophiles."

I stood between the stranger and my son, whose life has already been so hard, who carries traumas larger than his whole small, fierce frame. I was immovable. "Get away from my family." [2/10]

"Family!? That's not a family! You're rapists. You steal black & Asian kids." My son and my 5yo daughter were both now openly crying, petrified. He yelled right at them, unmoved: "These guys aren't natural. Homosexuals are an abomination. They steal and rape kids." [3/10]

It was suddenly no longer an absurd, abstract attack in an online comments section or a distant legislative session. These horrors were being screamed @ my sweet bewildered son, who's worked so hard to process his grief & control his feelings, who only wants love & safety. [4/10]

I grabbed the kids and moved them to another car while my ferocious husband went into papa bear mode and shouted the man away from us. Eventually the conductor arrived and the man lost his focus on us. [5/10]

The kids cried for almost an hour. We got cookies & processed their emotions while the train waited at a stop for the police. They wanted to be away from windows so they wouldn't see him again. They wanted to practice screaming loud enough for help to come. I want to scream too.

This man was clearly angry at an unjust world; we have that in common. He's clearly not receiving the resources he needs. We've dealt with this brand of terrifying homophobic stranger before with our son. But "pedophiles" and "rapists" were new in the mix, at least out loud. 7/10

We all know where that comes from. So thanks to Fox & Murdoch, JK Rowling & Marjorie Taylor Green, to the senators & priests & everyone else who harms kids & thinks it's politically expedient to project onto gentle families like mine to stir up their lucrative culture war. [8/10]

I asked my son if he'd seen the man before. He said the man had confronted him when we let him go to the bathroom alone, which he'd been so proud to do @ 1st but too afraid to do again after. Yet *we're* the groomers.  I'm livid & ashamed that I didn't notice something was up.

They're asleep now. They asked if we'll see that man again & I said probably not him, but men just like him. But we'll be stronger each time. And most people aren't like that guy. I hope this was true. Please help us protect our families, friends. We feel so outnumbered & tired

To be clear, as much as we need people standing up for us in such moments of confrontation, we need allies to shut down this rhetoric everywhere it rears its ugly head anywhere, especially when we're not there. Don't vote for them or support their art or avoid confrontation.

---

Remember, everyone: when conservatives are called racists or homophobes, that is incredibly unfair Cancel Culture and our rights of Free Speech are being assaulted.  But none of the Free Speech Warriors on the right will ever have anything to say about THIS kind of cancellation.  Because it's the kind that's been going on for decades.  It's the kind they like.

Hey Florida say good bye to your air force bases. 

https://www.spaceforce.mil/News/Article/2977004/resources-available-for-daf-members-families-affected-by-local-laws/

Airforce has announced they will move families if to another state if the local public schools enact homophobic policies.  Once the transfers begin it won’t be long before the air force decides they need to move the function to bases where all can serve and close the bases in Florida.

Airforce tends to lead the way on things like this Navy/Coast Guard next, then Army with the Marines last. 

You are so full of shit.  There is nothing in that link that says any bases are closing in Florida.  What a huge leap.

They aren't closing any bases tommorow.  But they are giving airmen who are affected the option of not serving in Florida.  Once the number of airmen requesting non-assignment of Florida beings to affect combat readiness bases will closed and units transfered. So not today, not this year, but this decade.

They aren't closing the bases ever because of this.  The airmen that leave are going to incredibly minimal.  The things you say are so clownish, it's like you don't live in the real world.  In fact, I'm 100% sure you say nothing in good faith here.

It doesn't even say that. Did you read it in detail?

That's what liberals do.  It looks like modern liberal ideology will be the inevitable death of the U.S.  Enjoy the feelings brigade while it lasts. Our ancestors bled for this bullshit 80 years ago in Europe and the Far East.  Thank God that total war effort gave liberal Generation Xers and Millennials the freedom and comfort to come up with such clownish shit.

I don’t have enough adjectives to describe these snowflakes.  Liberals like to get their fingers dirty and meddle in everything when it has nothing to do with them.   Why the fuck would a Massachusetts liberal give a shit about laws in Florida other than to support his/her own agenda??  

Give me a gavel and I’ll order to them make good on their threats back in 2016.   I'll set them up on a one way cruise overseas, slap the expenses on the tax docket and have them go literally anywhere BUT here.  Maybe I'll be nice and throw in a Starbucks vendor on the ship to encourage a few more of them to climb aboard.

Lighten up, Francis

Do you identify as right handed or do you identify as left handed?

In 1910 ~3% of the population identified as left handed.  But in 1910  there was strong anti-left handed bias.  It was the devil’s hand.  Kids who wrote left handed had their knuckles hit with a ruler and told to write with their right hand.  Then society shifted and left handedness became acceptable.  And by the 1960s ~12% of the population identified as left handed.  And it has remained steady ever since because  ~12% of the population is born left handed.  You can’t teach someone to be left handed or right handed, but you can ostracize some one to the point that they will hide the fact they are left handed.  Today almost everyone recognizes that it is wrong to force left handed people to pretend to be right handed.

I am heterosexual.  I consider homosexuality disgusting and repulsive.  No level of indoctrination could ever convince me otherwise.  But if I was under constant threat of physical harm I could pretend to be homosexual to avoid being beaten up.  Likewise homosexual didn’t learn to become homosexuals, it is who they are.  They can learn to hide in a closet, but you don’t learn to be gay.  You can learn tolerance or intolerance, but you don’t learn your sexual preference or hand preferences.

This law doesn’t prevent teaching sexuality, it bans the teaching of tolerance.  And like with handness or racial bigotry history will judge the intolerant poorly.

This is where you're way off base.   Nobody is born with sexual preferences.   Those are developed over time due to experiences.  And a lot of homosexuals experienced some kind of trauma.

And yes, the law does prevent teaching sexuality...... to kids under a certain age.   And that's as it should be.   If you feel that talking about sexual activity of any kind to a group of five year olds is ok, you should not be teaching.   In fact, you should not be allowed within 1000 feet of a school.

A lot of straight people experience some kind of trauma, too.

Your hypothesis stated as fact that nobody is born with sexual preference is likely bullshit.  It may be partially environmental, but it isn't learned behavior.