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This whole series of events has given me a stomach ache.

I have to eat crow -- I was very, very wrong about this.  I thought that conservatives didn't really want this illegal, but it was just a tool to rile up a certain voting block and their inability to stop something that was popular would be the golden goose for votes, in perpetuity.

I was incorrect.

What do you think happens now?

There might be an element of the dog catching the car and going "now what?"

This ruling will hurt republicans and energize democrats.

Open question: how much and how long.

I am highly skeptical that overturning Roe v. Wade is the One Weird Trick that will cause people to start caring about politics in this country.  If they didn't care when the Capitol was invaded and we were moments away from having our government overthrown, I doubt they'll care about this either.  In 5 months we'll be talking about another caravan of immigrants from Mexico or whatever.

That being said, this will not stop at abortion.  We already have Republican US Senators - not random internet crackpots, but elected officials in our highest federal legislative chamber - claiming that Loving v. Virginia (https://www.salon.com/2022/03/22/sen-mike-braun-says-was-to-legalize-interracial-marriage/) (legalizing interracial marriage in 1967) and Griswold v. Connecticut (https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/politics/2022/03/21/marsha-blackburn-criticizes-1965-supreme-court-ruling-birth-control/7120236001/) (legalizing birth control and contraception in 1965) were wrongly decided, saying those issues should be left to individual states to permit or prohibit as they see fit.  And if those cases with half-a-century of standing can be promptly overturned, then obviously, the 8-year-old Obergefell v. Hodges ruling (legalizing same-sex marriage) is circling the drain.

When Trump won in 2016, it was a declaration of open season on any so-called "rights" liberals thought they had won.  This is the incredibly predictable outcome of a Trump victory, and one that the anti-Hillary left completely refused to acknowledge (and many still do to this day).  Instead, we have a bunch of people on the left blaming Biden (?!) for "doing nothing" about abortion being outlawed.

If Democrats had not won in 2020, we would be 6 weeks away from abortion being completely outlawed in these United States.

Elections matter.

We haven’t had an election since the attempted coup.  So we don’t know what impact that will have.

Antidotal evidence that some people care, I was talking to someone who works in the town clerks office who said in January and February 2021 they had 65 people switch from Republican to unenrolled and 3 from Republican to Democrat.  I asked her how many people switch normally per month.  In a non-election year none.  Typically about a half dozen switch from a party to unenrolled right before the primary deadline.  In my state unenrolled voters can vote in either primary.

But the margins for many races are extremely close.  If just 25% of women who regularly vote republican who had an abortion her family doesn’t know about switched to democratic party it could swing many races.  

In much the same way folks were surprised by Trump’s win in 2016 because some people who voted for him didn’t want to tell their family.  I suspect in red states you are going to see some women voting democratic while telling their husbands and dads they voted republican.  

For me and you abortion is just another political issue.  For 50% of the population its personal.

Yes, we have.  In Virginia, where many people live and commute to DC, Republican Glenn Youngkin won the governorship last year.

I didn't expect this and I don't know how many more changes you will see once it is turned back over to the states but I do completely understand why they would overturn it. They ruling basically created a constitutional right where there isn't one.  Other rulings have been overturned for this same reason.

How many decisions has the Supreme Court overturned?
As of 2020, the court had overruled its own precedents in an estimated 232 cases since 1810, says the library.May 3, 2022

Actually there hasn’t been very many overturning of prior precedents on the bases that the court erroneously gave some one a right.  Most of the overruling was cases in which an earlier court denied someone a right.  For example   Miranda, Gideon. 

Please don’t pretend overruling Roe is the same as Brown overruling Plessey.

What comes next has already been spelled out.  Loving, Griswald

I'm way past this way of thinking, politically, but I used to think this way when I was younger.

I cared a lot about how laws were enacted, wanted them to be in the right format, etc.  I had a more libertarian mindset.  But as I aged, I realized that this was all a house of cards and these are laws of men, not of nature.  If something it right, get it done....it doesn't matter if it's state/constitution/courts, etc.

There is no constitutional right to protect you from a shitty racist who denies service to you because you're black.  So, in a black & white world, you just have to hope people do the right thing.  But since they don't, the court found a loophole to make it against the law, by using interstate travel laws or something.  It's not a clean constitutional amendment, which it probably should be, but we rest on precedence.

And sure, maybe Roe is an overreach in a technical sense, but it's a necessary one.  It should be a clearly defined constitutional right, but since it's not, you protect it at its current place.



You must vote every Republican out of every office in the land, even if you're a conservative.  Unfortunately, even the good ones have allowed this to happen and they are beholden to a corrupt master that's pulling the strings against the will of the people.  They all speak out against these things behind closed doors, they're on record and recorded, and they just deny, lie, and ask us to forget once they're pressed.  Once things level out and rights are restored, democracy protected, and a government is again representative of those who live in it, let the party build back with whatever ideas it has.

Right now, a vote for any Republican at any government level is a threat to the core tenets of democracy.

I hope that some of the conservatives on this site see me as someone they disagree with, but at least find to be a reasonable voice.  I'm telling you, your party is tearing down the core tenets of this country.  They are tricking you into fighting a culture war with other poor people so that the rich can steal from you.  I fear that many will never realize this and will die blaming the other side.  ...you saw this with COVID....a million dead, blaming the libs for a fake hoax until their last breath -- blaming doctors, hospitals, China, the vaccine, etc.  But those of you that eventually realize that you're propping up an authoritarian regime, I fear that it will be too late to get the power back into the people's hands.

Dave, do you think Democrats are "tricking you" into attacking the rich?

I used to think like you seem to: lower- and middle-income white voters, especially in rural areas, are "voting against their own interests" because they are being distracted from the real issues.  But 2016 made it crystal clear to me: their "interests" simply aren't what you and I think they should be.

There's a reason why Trump easily conquered the GOP, while plutocrats like Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan have been flailing around trying to maintain control for decades.  You should consider what makes him different from those two, and which of the three were trying to "trick" their base.

I think that everyone, in general, is looking for a better life for themselves and their families.

This is even bigger than tax policy.  Conceptually, there is money to go around for us all to get what we need.  But a very, very small portion of people have enormous, disgusting, criminal amounts of wealth.  Such a society should not be able to exist.

In order to prop that up, yes -- there is drummed up fear over someone else taking your job, someone else getting something for free that you paid for, that the cause of your strife is because of a lack of morals normalized by someone else's behavior -- that it's somehow a risk to your family.  ...all that shit....  Those people don't care about those things.  They create this insane environment of us vs. them at every turn so that we're fighting for crumbs.

Do Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos and Peter Thiel care about the culture war?  Probably not.
Does the Republican base care about a gay couple moving in next door, and kissing each other goodbye on the driveway in the morning when there are children outside?  Yes, very much so.  And it turns out that they care about this a lot more than tax policy!

There remains a level of wealth worship in the Republican party, even among the non-rich.  But there's a MUCH LARGER amount of cultural resentment.  And winning the culture war just feels better than some arcane tax policy bullshit.  You can't even compare the conservative feeling of victory from a thread like this one to a similar thread about the Trump tax cuts.  There are liberals all over the country crying over this!  This is the kind of winning that Trump promised and delivered.

Oh, definitely.  The Republican base isn't the rich I'm talking about.  I'm talking about the "fuck you" rich.  The kind of rich that makes rich people jealous.

1% of the people have 99% of the money.  And it ain't because they're hard workers.  (This number is hyperbole.)

USA is not acting like a democracy.  The vast major of Americans want abortion to be legal.  The majority of Americans want stricter gun control.

The republican platform is to raise taxes on the poorest half of Americans, lower taxes on the the ultra-wealthy and freeze the minimum wage.  Democrats want to lower taxes for the majority of Americans, raise taxes on the ultra wealthy and raise the minimum wage. Yet minimum wage earners vote republican. 

"It's a republic, not a democracy" is the rallying cry of the 40% of Americans that want their unpopular policies to be enforced around the country.

Next step will be for them to overturn gay marriage.   And they should.   Not because of civil rights/social justice, but because the right to decide whether or not gay marriage is legal, belongs to each individual state.   Some states voted in favor of it, and some didn't.  Then the Supreme Court trampled on the decisions of all the states when they shouldn't have. 
But they should add one caveat:   If a gay couple marries in a state where gay marriage is legal, but then moves to a state where it isn't, that state is required to recognize their marriage.

So according to you: choosing who you marry is not an individual right but the right of the government.  If the state of Virginia can ban homosexual marriages can’t they also ban interracial marriages.  Couldn’t a state also ban divorces or people from getting remarried?  Why is marriage a state right and not an individual right of the people choosing to get married? 

Understand what you are advocating decreasing individual rights for a more authoritarian form of government. 

Are there any federal laws that you personally agree with (e.g. the right to own a gun) that you believe should instead be decided on a state-by-state basis?
Nobody ever seems to be in favor of "states' rights" when they agree with the federal status quo.

IMO 58% is not a "vast major(ity)" of Americans wanting abortion to be legal.  A majority definitely, but I would argue that a fair percentage of these Americans aren't for unlimited abortions, rather allowable abortions with certain provisions.

The Republican platform is NOT to raise taxes on the poorest half of Americans; when have they ever done that or suggested that?

There have been Democratic majorities in the House & Senate over the past 20 years, with a Democratic President, Why have they not raised the Federal minimum wage?  Why have they not passed laws to improve immigration policies?

The fact is whether Democrat or Republican they do what's best for themselves to get re-elected, that's why we need term limits.

You could not be more wrong about either.   Majority of Americans either are against abortions and the ones that are for it would change their mind if their kid wanted to do it.   Most Americans will not react well to stricter gun controls.

An overwhelming majority of Americans believe a women should be allowed to have an abortion to save her own life.  An overwhelming majority believe a woman should be able to have an abortion in the first trimester.  If you are polling on 2nd and third trimester abortions, then  yeah, it drops.  Soon in some states it will be a felony for a doctor to save a women’s life by aborting a fetus that has no chance of survival.  Th

All Americans should pay some income tax to have skin in the game, even if a small amount. Currently over half of Americans pay no income tax.

https://rescueamerica.com/steps/5-economy-growth/

Last time the dems had the power to overcome a Republican filibuster was when Jimmy Carter was in office.  I don’t blame dems for not passing laws the republicans filibuster.  

Nope.  The only thing the majority of americans want to restrict abortionwise is late term abortion.  And that has been federal law for over a decade.

Most Americans want stricter gun control.  Closing the gun show loophole, mandatory safety training, safety locks, safe storage, banning high capacity magazines etc.  But less than a majority want the US to completely ban private gun ownership,

The position you are describing is called "pro-choice": a position which encompasses the vast majority of Americans, including a large chunk of those who refer to themselves as "pro-life" (because they don't know what that term means in a political context).  Virtually no one in America (certainly not elected politicians) is "for unlimited abortions," which has never been legal in the US anyway.

The 2017 Trump tax cuts raise taxes on the lower-income half of Americans to pay for tax cuts on the rich.

Notwithstanding the fact that a Democratic Congress did raise the minimum wage in 2007: since Obama's election, Republicans in the Senate have decided to filibuster nearly all Democratic bills.  This means that - with the exception of 72 working days in 2009 when Dems had a supermajority, during which they passed the ACA - a "Democratic majority" is not enough to pass any bill other than a budget resolution.

Term limits do nothing to fix this problem, as you can tell from the states that have enacted term limits.  Term limits only give more power to lobbyists.

Honestly ... you people need to get out and mingle with some republicans and you'll find all these MSNBC/CNN talking points you guys are spewing is BS. All talking points are eggagerated truths to drumb up viewers. Most of us have more in common than we do what separates us but that doesn't sell.

I still mingle with Republicans that want their party back from the crazies.  But many of them are actually more aligned with Libertarian thought.  Right on economic policy left on social policy such as abortion, gay marriage.  But I no longer have social relationship with the “my pillow “ faction of the republican party.  In many cases it was them not me that ended the relationship, but I am not really interested in haven’t a conversation with some who claims Atifia was  behind Jan 6, that covid vaccines contain microchips, that Trump won the election or that Hillary Clinton is behind a kidnapping ring and drinks childrens blood.  (okay only 1 of them claimed that one, and that friendship was terminated by me back in 2016). But seriously if you still support Trump after Jan 6 I don’t want to hang with you.

It is bizarre to hear stuff like "Most of us have more in common than we do what separates us" and complaints about exaggerated media talking points being used to rile up viewers from the same guy who regularly links articles from the Daily Mail with titles such as I get paid to be homeless (http://www.thedolphinsmakemecry.com/forums/index.php?topic=27198.0), It pays not to work in Biden's America (http://www.thedolphinsmakemecry.com/forums/index.php?topic=26777.0), Murder rates soar dramatically in cities after BLM protests (http://www.thedolphinsmakemecry.com/forums/index.php?topic=26737.0), and 108 illegals from Mexico tested positive for 'rona before being released into TX (http://www.thedolphinsmakemecry.com/forums/index.php?topic=26655.0).

I mean, if you want to bash liberals, do your thing.  But please spare us the hollow whining about being unfairly demonized, when your team likes to call everyone on the opposite side of the aisle pedophiles grooming kids.

It's more th4e fact you guys come off as having never met a Republican. All you have met is some very rich, extremist racist white guy who gets off on beating up poor people. That's pretty much like me equating liberals as people who are wanting to get pregnant just so they can abort at 9 months. They are out there but at least I realize it isn't the norm. Kind of why I still deal with you guys after all these years. There's got to be more to you than your extreme views you share in here.   

I'm not trying to start a fight -- being genuine here.  But do I fall into this, to you?

I'm just curious as to what views I have that you might think are extreme.

My extremist views:

Women should have bodily autonomy.

Gays should have equal rights.

Minorities should have equal rights.

Universal healthcare care access that exists in every other developed country should also be in the USA.

Women who give birth should get leave to recover just like almost every other country.

Guns should not be prevalent.  Like in most other countries.

Because I reject the idea that “When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.” Translates to “Build the wall”

Because I reject the idea And he answered them, “Whoever has two tunics is to share with him who has none, and whoever has food is to do likewise.” Translates to “food stamps is evil”

Police should not be above the law but should serve and protect.

That slavery and segregation had effects that are still prevalent.

If I'm not mistaken, supporting the status quo in the rest of the western world - universal healthcare, a working safety net, access to high-capacity semi-automatic rifles limited to well-regulated professionals, schoolteachers talking to students about the existence of homosexual and/or transgender people - marks you as an extremist to the American right.

I am doubtful that CF can name any "extreme views we share in here" that are not already the status quo in the radical leftist enclave known as Canada.

This may be the most interesting intersections of college football and the S.Ct.  I have ever heard. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZtiYGQcbWI