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Three people are dead after an Indiana mall shooting but it could've been a lot worse had there not been a good guy who was also carrying a gun.

https://www.aol.com/2-killed-shooting-indiana-mall-001121029-003802848.html

Only in America is three dead innocent victims seen as a success story.  It is not a “good news story” that only three were killed. It is three too many. 

The solution is not more guns for more shootouts.  It is getting guns out of the hands of psychopaths.

God will judge psychopaths.   Good guys with guns will arrange the meeting

There is no scenario where the anti-gun people are going to support a gun person.  In the same way some people use their creative side and others use their analytical side to make decisions ... their brain just isn't wired that way.

No you have that wrong.  Completely wrong. The correct statement is ....There isn't a scenario where the gun control advocates find three innocent civilians murdered a positive outcome.   

When it could've been thirty save for an armed good guy who had the sense to use his gun.

Or it
When it could've been zero save for anyone getting guns whenever they want.

That is not solving the problem.  Not for the 3 families who lost a loved one.  Not having the original shooter being armed is solving the problem.  

Less than 5% of shooter are stopped by a  "good guy with a gun".  And if you don't include private security and off duty cops, it drops to about 2%.  OTOH 100% of all shooting began with a bad guy with a gun.  We don't need more good guys with a gun.  We need less bad guys with a gun.

This guy had no adult criminal record.  There is no way to prevent him from getting a gun that wouldn't have prevented good guys from getting guns, too.

Japan has a bit more than 1/3rd the population of the US.
You may have heard about the assassination of their former Prime Minister, Shinzo Abe, earlier this month.  He was killed with a homemade gun.
That was the first gun death in Japan this year.
So Japan has already matched their total number of gun deaths for all of 2021: one (https://www.npr.org/2022/07/08/1110493901/abe-assassination-gun-laws-violence-japan).

Meanwhile, we have people in this thread cheering only three dead victims in a single incident! as a triumphant victory for the gun advocates.

More guns = more deaths.
It is literally that simple.

The issue is gun people don't see it as a gun issue but a mental issue of a broken society. You can't have our kind of freedoms and expect anything less. Take away guns and this countries criminals will always have guns. The best you can hope for is to have a gun to protect yourself until the police, that you do not trust anyway, show up. To think banning guns will remve them from everywhere is a fantasy. Banning illegal drugs and alchohol didn't work at all but guns will? Sounds like an innocent child came up with that.

And yes, this guy is a freaking 22 year old hero!
(https://www.newsnationnow.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/108/2022/07/dicken.jpg?resize=625,383)

That's the thing, you don't have to imagine or wonder or even pretend to not know the answer. Look at any other country that has curtailed gun ownership and the rate of gun deaths has decreased significantly.  There is worldwide pudding and there is worldwide proof and in this case the proof is in the pudding

But he did have a history of violence as a juvenile.  If you have a history of violence you shouldn’t have a gun.  Just because the violence occurred as a youth doesn’t matter.

The fact is if both Dicken and Sapirman were unarmed the situation would have ended much better than both of them armed.  Every other country in the world has solved this problem.

That is such boloney. What have we banned in the US that can't be easily purchased if you want it? If there is a market then there will always be people supplying them here.

So why aren't people in Japan, or Australia, or any other country "easily purchasing" guns?
Why did the guy who assassinated Shinzo Abe have to make his own gun at home?
Why doesn't Canada have the same rates of mass shootings that we do?

If your answer is always "they are doing it so much better" then why are you still here? The fact you are trying to drag in other countries to answer why we would be successful in removing guns when we can't remove anything else is very telling. You have no answer. That's like telling me that Christy Brinkley is beautiful and that the homeless drug addidcted woman should use her beauty tips and then she would look just like her. That isn't reality in the real world. Our country is full of drug lords, gangs, mafias, and other criminals. Taking my guns isn't going to stop that. Hell ...  in this day and age you can make your won anyway.

We are country who was founded on freedom. We fought for it and then established law protecting it. Our people have history as being just that and our mindset is much different than others for that reason. The soft people who wanted to be ruled over stayed in England and other European nations.   You know ... where everything is better except dental care.

That is a lazy and disingenuous response.   

On October 4, 1957 the folks at NASA did quit there jobs and join Roscosmos, instead they developed the Mercury project. 

Many of America's best ideas came from elsewhere.  Heck democracy isn't an American invention.  The Greeks had it.  Social security was an idea we got from the Germans.  Most countries had women suffrage before us.  We were one of the last countries to end slavery.

This is my country.  I am not leaving it.  I am going to strive to improve it.  And that includes looking to other countries that do things better.

The idea of looking elsewhere for ideas and then improving upon them is called innovation and improvement and predates the European arrival in this hemisphere. 

We will be the last country to solve gun violence and either the last or second to last country to give new mothers paid maternity leave. 



Wow that is ignorant.  Spider's ancestors did not leave England or choose to stay in England, they were kidnapped from Africa. 

Of course, there can be only one response to this:


Looking forward to your upcoming posts about your move to another country!  Live your values.

Taking away the guns IS THE ANSWER!
We can tell this works because we have lots of other countries as evidence!

Every country is full of criminals.
Yet we are the only developed country with mass shootings every day.
You are the one with no answer as to why this is, because your belief system requires that you reject gun control out-of-hand.

Then say that!  Stop offering up this transparent nonsense about how criminals will get guns anyway or whatever BS.  It's obviously a lie; banning guns works to dramatically decrease gun crime in every country where guns are strictly controlled.

Just be honest and admit that although you know strict gun control would work to save thousands of lives every year, you are fine with all of those preventable deaths happening Because Freedom.  The least you can do is stop trying to pretend strict gun control doesn't work.

Then pack your shit and move to one of those countries then.   Maybe when you do something stupid like that bitch Brittney Griner and end up behind bars in a foreign country, you'll see how good you actually have it here.

I'll repeat what I have said many times. As a liberal leaning gun owner, any mention of banning guns is a non starter, that means both sides of the isle. If you really hope to make improvements find different language because you don't even have support of all liberals that way.

I would never advocate a complete ban of guns.
Our military can't be effective without them!

Literally founded on slavery. The constitution even told us just how many people slaves count for.

Freedom was for white land owning males only.

What makes you feel justified in calling her a bitch?

Something is wrong in your misogynist, racist head.

Because that's what she is.  A race baiting bitch.  Anyone who runs their mouth like she does deserves the title. Demanding that we no longer play the national anthem at sporting events and advocating that the Constitution is a racist based document??  I'll bet she wishes she had the rights of an American citizen now.  She's getting exactly what she deserves.

LOL ... you wish. We aren't leaving our freedoms behind. The truth is without people like me you wouldn't be safe. The fact we have had such good times for so long has created this soft mindset that any male who isn't weak is toxic and any female who wants to live as a homemaker is brainwashed. That's all fine and dandy until crap hits the fan because then hard times make for hard men ... and we need some more of that.

Regardless of how you want to twist it ... those same white men created a way for everyone to be free and equal. Without them we would basically be Russia or even worse and you wouldn't be allowed to freely voice such an opinion. Instead of pointing out how messed up these people were you would be better served to focus on the positives they have provided for you and our family.

It sounds like you're saying that even though you see some flaws in this country, you'd rather stay and work to correct those flaws than leave.
Interesting.

Without people like you, who would be left to overthrow the government when my preferred candidate wins an election?

The real truth is that I'm not safe WITH people like you.

I see you are gleefully parroting the favorite meme of fascists:

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/898/444/8d1.jpg)

The conclusion being that we should put "hard men" or "strong men" (read: authoritarians) in power.

The problem is that the economy has tanked under the last three Republican presidents, with Trump being the first President since the creation of recorded job statistics to have a net job loss during his term.  So if this meme were true (note: it isn't), it would mean that the good times under Democrats result in weak Republican leaders, who create hard times that result in strong Democrats being elected to replace them.

The constitution actually is a "racist based document". From article 1, section 2:


I mean it took 4 score and 20 years to fix it, but facts are facts. It's for sure a "racist based document".

People are people and they were the same back then. The founders compromised on slavery because they had more important things to worry for themselves than slavery.  And I can focus on whatever i want to focus on. That's the beauty of the freedom you seem to assume only exists in the USA.

But we can play a game of what if. What if we lost the revolutionary war and the british hung the founders from the gallows in philadelphia and we remained a british colony, we'd be in roughly the same state of freedom as lets say Canada, which seems like a perfectly free country as far as I can tell. They have freedom of the press and speech. They don't have the freedom to shoot up malls however, but they do have the freedom to have universal health care, so maybe they're a bit more free in fact than we are.

I love America and I love the founders, but they were flawed men and a product of their time.  They set up a government to help themselves on the backs of blacks and women -- we've evolved since then.  We should continue to evolve some more.

They deserve credit for the things they advanced and they deserve blame for the things they held back.  It's a gray world out there.  History isn't all good/all bad.  George Washington was a man.  He wasn't a superhero.

We want to put people in boxes and life just isn't like that.

FYI ... the quote comes from a book from former Marine G. Michael Hopf and not the meme you supplied. The quote just summerizes the concept that has been going around since probably the dawn of time ... at least modern times anyway. 

That can actually be said about everyone in my experience. 

To me, the founding fathers gave up their money, estates, and families the day they signed that paper declaring independence. Mot of them were very rich in their own rights but they sacrificed way more than I most likely ever will so all of us to have a better opprotunity. they didn't fix everything but they a made a way to do so. They will always have my respect.

So you quoted an author who quoted fascist philosophy. 

It's a dumb concept that's obviously wrong.  (Fascists love it, though.)  There isn't even a decent correlation between "strong men" and "good times," much less causation... and without that part, none of the rest of the meme is worth thinking about.  "Good times create weak men"... OK, so what?  Should we avoid good times, then?

It also doesn't make any sense when applied to the real world.  When were the "hard times" that created the great orange emperor?  When were the "good times" that created Soft Joe, or our previous weak Muslim president?  Was Dubya the strong man that created good times, or the weak man that created hard times?  None of it makes any sense.

The only purpose that idea serves is try to convince people that they need to elevate strongmen (literally: strong men!) in order to bring about Good Times.  It's fascist propaganda, plain and simple.