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The race baiter got what she deserved.   Nine years in a Russian prison.   For someone who has trampled on the Constitution and the national anthem, she's now experiencing what it's really like to live in a country where she isn't free.

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/brittney-griner-trial-russian-court-hands-down-verdict-wnba-stars-case

I'm sure this thread will go pleasantly  ;D

It seems very excessive but it isn't out of line with other sentences for this crime in Russia. They are basically a zero tolerance drug country. Now, maybe if the US President asked nicely to have her released, something could've been done. However, our current US President has been trying to murder Putin since February, so I don't think he will be doing us any favors.

Other angles not yet discussed are how are we going to negotiate the release of someone over CBD/Weed nonsense by exchanging war criminals or arms dealers, when in our own country we have people incarcerated for weed? That would be really messed up. IMO, she's doing at least 2 years and then Putin will release her to the next President as a way to humiliate Biden. Kinda like when Reagan got the hostages back right after he beat Carter.

You can always tell who the true Ronald Reagan pro-Amercan  anti-communist conservative patriots are.  They are the ones cheerleading Putin.

/Sarcasm off

I couldn't care less how pleasant it is.   The liberals on this board better take a good look at this example and realize how good they have it in this country and quit speaking out against American freedoms. 



That's because Reagan made it clear that he would launch a full scale invasion of Iran if the hostages weren't released.

So liberals like Griner don't realize how good they have it to live in a country where they have the right of free speech.
Other liberals should take a good look at her example of being imprisoned and... quit speaking out.

I guess the best kind of free speech is the kind you're afraid to use, lest you be imprisoned!

What she got is way overkill. With that said you have to respect other countries if you are going to visit them because there isn't a constitution there to protect you. The saddest part of the story to me is that we are looking at trading a killer for her. That seems like more overkill too but I guess the White house thinks it will work out as well as the case of Bowe Bergdahl that Obama made. Apparently democrats are so confident in our abilities we like to give our enemies multiple chances to kill us and others.   

 

Fixed it for you.

I see where Artie choke fins is going. I see where spider is going. But this has nothing to do with free speech. This is all about someone so blissfully ignorant of another country’s Draconian laws. I mean, maybe because I’m not some untouchable” celebrity or athlete or whatever, but I would make damn sure before I traveled  internationally that I knew what was good and what was bad according to the laws of where I was traveling to. She could have done some homework.

I agree 100%. As Americans, we are kinda isolated form the rest of the world for various reasons and we don't understand how many countries just suck or have really bad laws you have to watch out for. In England, they're arresting people over mean tweets and I am dead serious. Freedom of Speech and Due Process is pretty much an American thing. I have a billion problems with our Government and DOJ, no matter which party is in charge, but I do love the Constitution and am grateful we have it.

This isn't a liberal/conservative thing at all, to me.

She went to another country and did a thing that was illegal there and there are consequences.  That's fair.
But we live in a world community where laws have to reflect punishments.  They have to be fair, they have to be equitable, and sometimes, if another countries laws are fucked up, they can get fucked.  We wouldn't let Iran just summarily execute Ellen DeGeneres for being gay.

What's happened here is that Putin is given her a crazy sentence for political reasons to stick it to the US.  It's not about liberals.  It isn't about Griner.  It's about him giving us a "fuck you."  So if you're cheering this on, you're cheering on Putin's leveraging against the US.  It is was it is.  And now, he's essentially holding her hostage under the guise of some fake-ass laws so that he can work out an exchange because she's a high-profile person, and as an Olympic gold-medalist, her value to the US is more than just her as an individual.

It would be like if we gave some Russian hero years in prison for jay-walking.   Sure, it might be illegal, but you gotta be reasonable.

I find it astounding that you would have the balls to accuse others of race baiting.  Didn't you get very publicly fired and doxed and made national news for being a racist?

I can only assume Ellen Degeneres knows better than to go to Iran and flaunt it.

I agree with some of what you are saying but I have to wonder. Do you think it is ok to release the "Merchant of Death" in order to get her back?

It's not something I feel really strongly about either way.  I understand both sides of that argument.  There is a larger "do you negotiate with terrorists" type of thing.  I don't think there's a black/white right answer.  In general, I don't have an issue with exchanges to get our citizens back to be handled here and the nature of us having more freedoms and a more moderate society than the places we're trading with, the nature of the game is that we're going to be giving more than we get, every time.  That's the cost of being at the top.

It also matters some that Griner was there working -- she was hired to play basketball there -- it's not like she's just galivanting across dangerous countries.  And this crazy Putin behavior escalated when she was already part of that situation.

Let's be honest -- if Griner is guilty, she's guilty of carelessness.  It's not like she's out there trying to run a drug cartel.  Those laws there aren't in line with what's normal world behavior.  She's being held because of who she is.  Make no mistake: this is essentially kidnapping and they're hiding behind fake laws to do it, to apply political pressure because Putin is waging an unjust war and war crimes against another country and has very little support for it.

We just gotta get rid of Putin...let democracy return there.  Right now, it's too dangerous to have the world hinge on that mad man.

I've worked in the same business since I was 19 years old and have been the owner of it for the past 9 years.   No way I'm firing myself, son.  And if I did something stupid like the guy from Papa John's did and use a racial slur on a conference call, I'd willingly step down like he did.   But that's not going to happen because I know when to keep my mouth shut and I have no ill will against different races.  I do, however, have ill will against liberals who trample on our constitution.

And the best way to quit taking your constitutional rights for granted is... to quit speaking out.
Again, I guess liberals don't have to worry about "abusing" our free speech if we're scared to do so, after we "took a good look" at Griner being locked up.

It's incredible that you think YOU'RE the one standing up for the values of this country as you tell other people to shut up and stop criticizing the government.  And naturally, your version of "showing respect for this country" means "liberals should bow down to the police," but NOT "conservatives should avoid hostile takeovers of capitol buildings."

If you think looting businesses and burning homes as a form of protest is ok, but taking over a capitol building to spotlight election fraud isn't, then you clearly have lost your mind.

When did Griner loot a business or burn a home? I thought your justification for cheering on Russia's conviction of her was that she "trampled on the Constitution and the national anthem," which usually means "she silently kneeled in protest of police brutality." (Reminder: the people opposing this silent kneeling consider themselves the defenders of free speech.)

Wrong again.   More like the people that oppose silent kneeling are offended because those who kneed are not showing respect for the men and women who fought for the right to free speech/expression.   Including some family members of mine.

They fought for the right to free speech like... silently kneeling in protest of police brutality.  Got it.

Listen, if you want to criticize people for silently and peacefully protesting, that's fine.  I am in favor of you freely expressing your bad and wrong opinion.  But don't give us this BS about how exercising your free speech right to peacefully protest the police is disrespecting the people who died to make sure you have the right to peacefully protest anyone you want (including the police).  YOU are the one disrespecting their sacrifice.

Or that any of that has anything to do with wrongful, politically-driven detention in a foreign country...

She's a giant idiot for bringing any sort of drug to Russia.
The sentence she received was way too harsh.
Both are true.

It was too harsh by our standards. By Russian standards, it was actually less than the maximum. No Tolerance drug countries are very serious. I believe in the Phillipines they give you the death penalty for drug use. Always know the laws if you travel to a different country. Hell, know the laws if you travel to a different state. If you are from New Hampshire and want to travel to NYC, leave your gun at home or spend years in prison.

Great points Edge. Many of her supporters come off as entitled and those who act like her protests here warrant the penalty come off as haters but the truth is she is the only one to blame for the situation she is in. We can want change in other countries but they aren't the US of A and it isn't that easy. If other countries were so much better than us like people would have you believe then we wouldn't have so many people literally dying to get in.   

I have to agree with Edge as well.   I may come off as a hater but looking at it without my red colored glasses on, I must say that she did this to herself.  When you go to another country, you are subject to the laws of that country and you are responsible for knowing them.  Ignorance is no excuse.  

I've crossed the border from Texas to Mexico several times.  I've always made sure to leave my gun and my pocket knife in my vehicle before I head to the footbridge because if you are caught with weapons in Mexico, you will be sent to jail for what could be quite a while.

This is factually incorrect.

The maximum possible is 10 years.  She got 9 1/2.

But most citizens would get about 5.
And on top of that, this is a first time offense of someone who is leaving the country.  There is no victim.  She had a small amount.  She wasn't dealing.



She. Is. A. Political. Prisoner.


They're giving her as much as they can BECAUSE she's valuable to the US.   They wouldn't be giving you 9.5 years.

I don't like their law and she probably is getting more time because of who she is, but even at 5 years we would be making a big deal out of it. Fact is, whether we declare it or not, we are at war with Russia and have been trying and succeeding in killing their soldiers for half a year now. We can't reasonably expect Putin to be nice to us and cut us some slack. I would rather her be there for 2 years and the next President comes in and negotiates a reasonable deal for her return as opposed to trading war criminals or arms dealers for her return. It's a shitty situation and there is no neat way out.

Reports are coming out that Russian officials are now willing to negotiate a swap of Griner for that arms dealer.   I'm guessing they gave her just below the max sentence in order for them to have some leverage at the bargaining table.

Also, regarding sentencing...

Griner had less than 1 gram on her.

The big sentences are for like...100 grams+.

ALSO......

Griner was arrested on Feb 17.  Putin attacked on Feb 24th.

This was part of his plan.  The tensions there weren't as high yet.  It's not like she entered into a warzone.


Again, she's careless -- no doubt.  But she's being held for political purposes.  She's essentially being kidnapped and they're hiding behind laws to do it, but it isn't fair or just.  She is a pawn.  And that's wrong.

Very likely, but are we really going to send over an arms dealer to get back a WNBA player so it looks good for political reasons? Make the swap of equal prisoners or find another way to negotiate.

I'm not sure that there will ever be "equal prisoners".  We don't have an equivalent of the merchant of death -- maybe I'm being naive. 

Also, I'm not really comfortable saying that bringing her home is for political reasons, necessarily.  She's literally an American Hero, so it's just kinda important, in general.  But even if she weren't, it's just not a good situation.  That kid who got caught in North Korea stealing a poster and then he was tortured until he's brain dead....  The kid from my childhood that was getting lashings for graffiti, despite being a minor.  These are just, historically, things where you don't want people coming home in a body bag -- for lots of reasons.  Putin is a crazy person and having one of our gold medal athletes being unreasonably detained is not good for anyone -- it hurts diplomacy, increases tensions, ...all kinds of shit.

I also think it's weird that many are so quick to dismiss the possibility of these drugs being planted on her, coming from a regime who is known to have poisoned their enemies' perfume, tea, and even underwear.  (Obviously any "confession" from her while in their custody tells us nothing.)

I'm not saying it's impossible the stuff was hers, but maybe we should pump the brakes on "the moron deserves what she gets" takes.  She is very obviously a political prisoner.

I think she confessed to the stuff being her's, but as you say, this is Russia. Confessions don't have to be factual. No one should be saying "Haha, suck it" to someone doing 9 years in a Russian prison for one vape pen, even if you don't like the person. That is life destroying and we would be doing everything we can to release the person if it was a friend or family member.

As far as her being an American Hero goes, I don't see what she did to warrant that distinction, but she was arrested for beating her wife so she is a piece of shit for that. I don't tolerate or forgive violence against women, even if it is from other women.

I believe its hers.

This is really an issue where I understand both sides.

I don't subscribe to any of that "get what you deserve, bitch" rhetoric and I do think that she's being 1000% held for Russia's illegal interests in Ukraine, but I totally get not wanting to reward their bad behavior for trading for war criminals. 



When I called her an American Hero, I was referring literally that she's a gold medalist for our country multiple times over.   I'm not talking about her quality as a person.  I have never heard her speak, I don't know (or care) what her position is on anything, as its not informing my decision.  She is being held because of those medals.

Let's get something straight here.   She is not an American hero nor is she a political prisoner. She is someone who committed a crime in a country that is not her own and is now facing the consequences of said crime according to the framework of that country's laws.  The situation she put herself in speaks to the issue of celebrities abusing VIP status on so many levels.

So many celebrities feel they are above rules and consequences because of who they think they are. In Griner’s case, she takes her only value as being a professional athlete and inflates it into being an influencer of change for her own beliefs. After her arrest, she has shown how these outspoken, self ordained privileged ones become hypocrites to their causes when the shit hits the fan for them. This race baiting bitch has the nerve to denounce, insult and disgrace our country publicly for what she feels are its weaknesses only to call on its greatness to come save her ass after being detained in Russia.  Detained LEGALLY I might add.

I think we need to stop with the celebrity justice bullshit and hold them accountable for their actions.   If she was an average person, this wouldn't even be news.  

You sure like to call her a "race baiting bitch" a lot.  You seem to say this phrase a lot between your many personas.

Oh what?   Calling her what she is offends you?   Boo fucking hoo.   The first amendment was created to protect speech that hurts people's feelings.   Liberals today are trying to put a stop to that left and right, and that I have a major problem with.

I am confused by what she did that could be even considered race baiting.

Opposing the murders of George Floyd and Britney Taylor is not race baiting.

If you need an example of something that is race baiting, an example would be saying an African-American coach should be lynched because you disagree with something he did.

The first amendment was first created to make sure the government had no attachment to any religion, it was also made so that government could not reasonably restrict speech. TDMMC (or any private group or venue) has nothing to do with the first amendment.  Free speech doesn't exist on private property.  Dave likes to foster conversation and interaction. That's the whole point of a message board. But don't bring up the first amendment as some sort of shield that allows you to say whatever you want, that offers you as much protection here or in any private location as a bag of turds.

Accuse the other side of which you are guilty.




Also, the first amendment protects you from the government.  It doesn't protect you from the terms and conditions of the TDMMC message board.

Dave- did you intend to quote me for that?

For the first part, yes.  In reference to your example about lynching coaches.

The 2nd part was just a general statement.

He's talking about a person accusing others of "race baiting" after doing it themselves.