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https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-suggesting-ron-desantis-pedophile-1234675596/

Donald Trump recently has been ramping up his attacks on Ron DeSantis ahead of a potential 2024 Republican primary showdown. We’re not going to lie, we figured it take the former president a least a few more months before he started accusing the Florida governor of pedophilia.

Trump has been doing just that on Tuesday, though, sharing a few posts on Truth Social purporting to show DeSantis “grooming high school girls with alcohol as a teacher.”

“That’s not Ron, is it?” Trump wrote, sarcastically. “He would never do such a thing!”

The New York Times reported last year on DeSantis’ time as a teacher at the Darlington School in northwest Georgia. The report notes that several students described DeSantis as “a frequent presence at parties” with seniors at the school. “As an 18-year-old, I remember thinking, ‘What are you doing here, dude?’” one former student told the Times.

The photo Trump shared on Tuesday was originally published in 2021 by a Democratic blog called The Hill Reporter, which noted that the girls in the photo were seniors when it was taken in 2002.

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Let me be perfectly clear here: Ron DeSantis is a coward.  And like all cowards, he is only interested in acting tough towards those who are weak and powerless, like gay people or trans kids.  So Low Energy Ron will not do a damn thing about Trump implying that he is a pedophile groomer.  Wait, that's not true: if Little Ronnie (as some call him) does anything, it will be to slavishly praise Trump and announce that he (DeSantis) is not running in 2024, as he gives Trump his enthusiastic endorsement.

In conclusion: Ron DeSantis is a coward, and a pathetic spineless bully, and also maybe a grooming pedophile.

That is all.

Why the fuck didn’t the Charlie Crist people make this a news story?  Democrats need to get more aggressive.

Pandering to the Qanon bloc. Sadly it just may work.

Not that Ron is any less dangerous. There isn’t a single republican with a chance at the nomination who should be allowed within 5 miles of the White House.

This might sound crazy, but I think that this is ultimately good for Desantis.

I believe that Trump is unelectable.  He already lost and isn't exactly adding new voters.  He's shaved off people since his coup attempt.  So, there's nowhere for him to go.

I think that enough people in the GOP establishment as well as many voters understand this and they see Desantis as [insert whatever you want him to be].  I hear all the time that Desantis is like Trump but without the baggage.  He's not been tested on the stage or challenged, so we'll have to see how that goes.

But I do think that Trump attacking him, especially on this type of thing will trick people into thinking that he's not Trump and give a permission structure to break from Trump to support the more "normal" Desantis.

The GOP hard-liners will fall in line for whoever the nominee is and the middle will like that Trump is attacking someone.

All Desantis has to do is not fight back.



In a way, I think something is also true for Biden.  Conservative talking heads and social media would have you thinking that Biden is a dementia patient, wandering the White House halls, confused, not knowing where he is.  It lowers the bar then, when you see him deliver a speech or spar with the opposition to where he comes off looking good.

I saw this with GW Bush.  Liberals and comedians painted him as some kind of booger-eating moron, so when he debated or gave a speech and stayed on a normal, presidential message, it lowered the bar and he exceeded expectations.

How does this win a GOP primary?

Everyone tried "not fighting back" in the 2016 GOP primary and Trump blew them all out.

I think it's a different environment now and Trump is unelectable.  I think he will struggle with donors and "moderate GOP" support, whatever that is.

He will lose on the electability argument.  You already see Trump supporters on this start saying it.  Desantis will have to fight back -- but he won't have to fight back against this type of thing, especially this early.

You say he's "unelectable," but that has nothing to do with a GOP primary.

Republican primary voters choose unelectable candidates all the time.  That's why Republican politicians are so terrified of being primaried!  They know that the GOP primary electorate will happily tank a general election if that what it takes when you nominate a True Believer.  Look at Blake Masters, Kari Lake, and all the other nutters that won GOP primaries last cycle.  Republican primary voters don't play the "electability" game.

P.S. "Everyone said Trump was 'unelectable' in 2016 and you were all wrong then, too!"

Both Trump and DeSantis are great politicians who have great policies.

DeSantis guided Florida effectively throughout the Covid pandemic without having to shut down the state.  He caused Florida's economy to boom.  He destroyed Charlie Crist

Trump:

- kept China in Check
- achieved energy independence
- reduced our dependence on other countries
- secured our borders
- achieved a booming economy with no inflation

Biden has undone ALL of this.

WHY??  Why do people vote for candidates based on their personalities, instead of on their skill?

Do you people actually LIKE spending so much more for goods?  Do you like your 401ks crashing?

I think that he's unelectable in a general and so people who would otherwise support him in the primary will support his opponent instead.  This includes donors.  And I don't think Trump is going to get the free media cycle he did the first time, so he will need the money.

This is simply not how Republican primary voters think, and there is a mountain of evidence behind that statement.  So what evidence do you have that modern Republican primary voters give the slightest damn about "electability" in primary voting?

I have no idea why you would think this to be true.

Trump is ratings.
Modern news media is driven by ratings.
What part of that dynamic do you think has changed since 2020?  Trump is a more "electable," more "mainstream" candidate now than he was when they gave him ALL the free media in 2016!

How do you liberals decide who to vote for?

If it's not, "Whoever lets me get away with being the most lazy", it seems like it's, "Whoever can run this country into the ground."

What could have changed is the GOP has been ravaged by Covid the last few years.  Also, they likely suffered greater losses from other respiratory diseases during the pandemic.  That's how bad candidates get elected.

It's what I see reported in polling from my various political podcasts/outlets.  But also, I see in anecdotally on here.  If you asked the people on this site who voted for Trump who they'd prefer, I'm guessing you'd get a lot of Desantis.  This is all while Desantis hasn't even announced.  I think that the GOP support, money, and coverage will start to coalesce away from Trump.  We'll see though, it's not like I have a crystal ball.

Put your chips down, though -- do you think Trump is the nominee?


It already changed from 2016 to 2020.  Trump didn't get every speech aired during the election cycle like in 2016, when the media thought it was a circus act.  Already, they cut away from him when he's just going into his "election was rigged" bullshit.

Easily.  The only way it's a close call is if Trump is literally incarcerated.

The people who think today Trump won't be the nominee are, to the man, all people who thought he wouldn't be in 2016.  And for all the same incredibly naive reasons.

Sweet.  I kind of hope that he is, as I believe he's nationally unelectable.  So that's good, I guess.

I’m with you, as it is now I think he wins.

I think it will be tougher than in 2016 and a lot can happen but yeah he has a highly
motivated cultus and I don’t think anyone else can break his spell.

Scary thing is he can win the general as well, outright. He will of course try and cheat again no matter the outcome.

I’m hoping he dies on the toilet.

Trump will only be the nominee if people like DeSantis and Nikki Haley cancel each other out. Hopefully they recognize who can beat Trump and bows out early enough to help them beat Trump.  I don't know many people who would still vote for Trump except hard core right wingers and that's a minority. I'm speaking about the Presidential Election too. Most people are tired of his schtick with much better alternatives out there and are ready to see him go away.

I hope the far-far right somehow manages to put Trump on the ticket...just because I don't believe he is electable any more.

Can Desantis give us what Trump gave us?


1) No wars
2) Middle East Peace
3) Strong American Economy
4) No inflation
5) Growing 401ks
6) Low Gas Prices
7) A secure oil Reserve
8) Strong dollar?

I still don't get why liberals don't like this things. 

I don't think there would be a repeat of 2016. 

I understand Trump's frustration because when you do a great job, and people don't recognize you for it, it is annoying, but he needs to get out of the picture.

DeSantis is Scott Walker 2.0: he's a sleazy little gremlin who has made his bones at the state level by owning Florida Dems.  But he has nothing to offer at the national stage.

He is Trump, minus the things (fame, "wealth," TV show, readiness to insult his opponents in childish terms) that made Trump popular.  Trump at least made (flimsy, transparently dishonest) overtures towards being in favor of things that are not pure, undistilled Republican Party orthodoxy: he claimed he was in favor of expanding Medicare, he said it would be a terrible mistake to cut Medicare or Social Security, etc.  Ron DeSantis has the exact same economic platform as Mitt Romney, Mitch McConnell. or Paul Ryan.  He just has some culture war nonsense thrown in for seasoning.

After the State of the Union address, Trump had some unusually generous praise (https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/02/trump-biden-sotu-reaction.html) for President Biden and his wife, the "lovely" Jill Biden.

I heard an interesting theory behind this praise as veiled threat: if Trump loses to DeSantis in the primary, then maybe he'll endorse Biden in the general.  Obviously, Trump's preference is to win the presidency, but if he loses to DeSantis in the primary, then it should be equally obvious that Trump would prefer DeSantis to lose to the same guy that beat him.

I have to admit it is always interesting to hear you guys describe DeSantis. It's like a wish list or somethig because it couldn't furthur from the truth. DeSantis is much better at owning the Dems and media. He does it with intelligence and doesn't use the namecalling and threats as a catch all. He's Donald Trump if you could send Donald to basic training and start all over to get the guy you really wanted. The only place they are similar is with policies they support.


Trump is hard to figure out. While most people realize he should get behind whoever the nominee would be on the GOP so they would help him if ever needed (like a pardon) his ego would cause him to destroy the GOP as revenge. It would not surprise me to see him support his all of a sudden long time buddy Sleepy Joe. That could be in the form of running as indepedent or outright tossing his support to Joe.

It's not that simple as much a matter of perspective. Liberals also want those same things but see different ways of achieving them or different faults in why we do not have them.

For instance ...  they want lower gas prices but don't see higher gas problems as a Biden or party issue. Conservatives on the other hand see it directly as the policies of the adminsistration that has stripped us of our oil production which has a direct effect on everything we purchase. Depending on how you see the issue is how you will likely vote.

This is correct.  There are also further nuances that might apply, like the cost of making gas cheaper is bad in the long term for some other purpose (environment, using strategic reserves needed for plastics or later use).  Or that gas is so much cheaper in America than other parts of the world.  But all that has a cost, too.

Gas is a weird commodity, because it's connected to so many other things.  We think of it as specifically filling up our tanks, but it's more than that.  Really cheap gas can signal issues with the general economy.

I've been banking on the first part.  Trump shoots from the hip and says crazy shit, but when it comes down to the law, he shuts up and lets his lawyers work.  You don't see him freelancing on the witness stand.  He's very controlled.

Yes, Trump has ego, but the dude also needs to, first-and-foremost, stay out of legal trouble.  If he's dead in the water and going to lose, he's so much better making a backroom deal with whoever the GOP nominee is...not even necessarily for as much of a pardon, but just to be able to appoint the guys in the justice department who will ultimately decide who and how hard to prosecute.

Clearly, a friendly Desantis in office is less of a threat to Trump than a democratic appointed justice department.  They're independent, but there's still human involvement.  Trump's legacy would be hurt (in his own mind) if Desantis went on to be the candidate that he couldn't be, but I don't think it's enough to risk more legal problems.




My sister called me today and put her official prediction on Trump getting the nomination.  I just don't see it.

He seems unelectable, Republicans seem to know that.  Sure, there are people who will vote that way anyway, but you've gotta think that between an electability argument (which isn't even being levied against him yet) plus Wall Street and the GOP money machine backing away, plus a reduction in general media attention.  I just don't think he can stay afloat.

The easy way out here is to blame the system, like he's always done, back away, say he would've won in a landslide if there wasn't so much goo in the swamp, blah, blah, blah.

People in politics are dumb. Unless they get together to nominate someone else he has enough of the diehards to win. He won't win the elction as he's even lost a much of the support he had but his zealots are crazy enough to get him nominated if the other votes are split between 2,3, or even 4 other people.

There is a house just down the street from me that looks like one of those ones you see on the Internet.  Multiple raised trucks on the lawn in various states of repair.   A momument to the ten commandments out on the front lawn.  And several large political flags flying above the house.

He currently has a "Trump 2024."  A "Don't Tread on Me" yellow one with the snake.  And a "Let's Go Brandon" one.


He previously was flying a Desantis one, but that's now been taken down.  I don't know if it means anything, but I noticed it.

I saw a Desanctimonious flag in rural Connecticut last week. That was interesting.

I've seen t-shirts but I take them as a slap in Trump's face. Kind of like the "Let's go Brandon" towards Biden. I haven't seen anyone wearig them yet but I have seen them.

^ I would think that someone flying a Desanctimonius flag would be Pro-Trump and anti-Desantis.

But maybe it's how Trumpers started self-identifying as Deplorables after the Hillary quote.

That's kind of how I took it but who knows? Right now it looks more like people trying to profit than an actual movement of sorts as outside of Fau posting I haven't seen any being worn.

I have a political prediction.

I think that the GOP biggest political area of weakness right now is on Medicare and SS.  They know that it is unpopular, so they don't want to address it (which I get).  So, Biden brought it up in the SoU speech and got booed for it.  Meanwhile, Rick Scott and Mike Lee (who was very offended by the idea) are on video talking about it.  Rick Scott had it as part of the platform.

So, I don't think that the GOP as a party wants to put SS and Medicare on the table.  But, at the same time, some of their key members (even after the SoU) keep bringing it up.  So, it's a very VERY tough road for them to navigate.


Ron Desantis has a bit of a sketchy voting record when it comes to this, as well, but he's been able to keep himself out of the converstaion.

Enter Trump.

A "normal republican" most likely wouldn't try to label Desantis as one that is trying to take down SS and Medicare, because it would drag down the entire party for re-election across the country.  It would legitimize the Biden comments at the SoU.  But Trump doesn't care about party loyalty and he doesn't have a political ideology.

I can absolutely see Trump trying to paint Desantis as someone trying to cut those programs.  That seems like the most logical path to beating Desantis in a primary (over this pedo allegation stuff), but also I think that it could stick to Desantis in the general election, even if he won.


Oh, and Trump has a new nickname for him: Meatball Ron.    I don't know what it means, but I like it better than his other one.  It made me laugh.

Trump being petty enough to crash the entire GOP would in a weird way somewhat redeem him.

The best thing would be if he loses and mounts an independent run basically handing the election ( and maybe even congress ) to the democrats.

Meatball Ron is funny though have to admit.

Most Republicans don't want to scrap them. We want it to be optional and have it overseen differently so funds cannot be used for other things. There are alos some changes that could benefit people who are on them. I haven't seen anything from DeSantis say any different.

Rick Scott is kind of an outlier when it comes to SS and Medicare and easy for the Democrats to use against the whole party even though it isn't true. If there were a better option running for Senate then Scott wouldn't be there today as he doesn't have very many fans.

Most Republicans don’t agree with Sen. Rick Scott‘s plan to sunset programs including Medicare and Social Security, Sen. Mike Rounds said Sunday on CNN’s “State of the Union,” even as he left the door open to other changes.

“The vast majority of us would say that we prefer to look at it in a different direction, one of managing it, as opposed to a discussion about having everything start over again,” Rounds said.https://www.politico.com/news/2023/02/12/social-security-mike-rounds-rick-scott-00082455

 .... and I don't get the Meatball Ron name but Trump is desperately reaching for something to stick while he is losing more and more support. Apparently he is comparinng Ron's stature to a meatball. He also reportedly now calls him 'Shutdown Ron' over his  brief economic and social lockdown during the pandemic. He's so very desperate and Ron wins by not even acknowledging it.

Honestly CF I’m kinda in support of SS reforms. I think it should be there for those who are on it and those with disabilities but for the most part SS is a wealth transfer from the working to well to do retireees.

Anyone under 45 should be allowed to get what they’ve put into the system. I know myself and most of my peers could invest that money much better than the government.

However it is hard to trust republicans that they just won’t gut it and leave people on the streets who do actually need ut.

That's just propaganda they want you to believe. In reaity the biggest change would be for people like you and I to invest our own money instead of forcing us to the gov do it for us.

Yeah I agree. It is basically a Ponzi scheme and the amount you get from it is a joke. I know I could drastically improve my life and set myself up nicely and probably retire with some quality of life a lot sooner.

That said my best friend is on disability and it would be horrible if she got kicked off.

I'm in support of SS reforms, too.  I totally think that revamping how we pay for it is a conversation worth having.

But that is not a stance that is viable politically, unfortunately.  It will cost you an election if you run on it.

Just saw this on a conservative board and I think it really rings true as far as Trump is concerned.  It "namecalling" worked with Jeb because nobody liked him. Ron is in a different category, this won't work and makes Trump look petty.
I swear it's hard to find Republicans who are still supporting him.

I am getting whiplash in my life around Trump/Desantis, depending on who I talk to.

Trump is still polling above Desantis by a pretty good margin, within GOP voters.  But I have fallen back on "wait and see".  Desantis hasn't been tested.  And I think Trump could implode.  But if he doesn't and Desantis just sits there and gets called a pedo for 6 months, it might be bad.

I don't even know anymore.




This is just anecdotal, but the Trump weirdos are still out, here in S. Florida.  They have big trucks and flags and park on the side of the overpass on I-95 so you have to drive under their parade on the way home from work every day.  They used to have Desantis flags, too.  Now they do not.

...and my neighbor that I mentioned before that has the flags.


Ultimately, I don't think we will get to a point where whichever side loses doesn't fall in line with the eventual winner.

And Trump running as 3rd party is a Democrat's pipe-dream....that ain't happenin. 

^^^  Monmouth University poll released on Thursday indicates if the 2024 election were held today and just between the two, DeSantis would come out on top.

DeSantis captured 53 percent of the vote from Republican respondents in a hypothetical head-to-head primary race, while Trump netted just 40 percent. The poll was taken January 26 through February 2.

Unfortunately others being in the race will most likely only pull DeSantis votes

If it becomes apparent that Trump is going to win in an crowded field do they all drop out except for one like the democrats did to Sanders?

It's funny but we have that too constantly in Central Florida but they have gone from Trump signs to Brandon, Ultra Maga (which is avreference to being slammed) and Patriot Country type signs. They look similar but no Trump in the name. The guy who lead it is very popular around town because of his paintings which hang around the local towns. They even invade Disney at times and has made national news. I just looked and the '"Paint the Trump" site appears to be gone and that's where they would post all of these weekly outings. I can now only find them on his personal page and like I said "Trump" seems to be gone. I wonder if Jeff is now supporting DeSantis or waiting for things to fall into line?  

People cheating social security makes me furious.  I get up to go to work every day while they relax and have fun.

GOP 2024!!!!

Hopefully it's DeSantis.

You have more in common with a homeless person or someone on disability then you ever will with a billionaire.

Considering there are only about 700 in the US that is highly likely for just about everyone... hahaha

What's that supposed to mean?

People on disability live lives of luxury.  People on food stamps live lives of luxury.  People on government assistance live lives of luxury.

Trump did MAGA

Hopefully DeSantis can in 2024.

No they don’t man. Do you know how hard it is to get disability? It took my friend 6 years. She gets 800 dollars a month and it took another two to get an apartment. She isn’t faking it. She doesn’t live some glamorous life.

What it means is you’re more likely to have some kind of life event that leaves you on the streets than you are likely to get rich.

The GOP presidential hopefuls still can't bring themselves to utter a single word against the Great Orange Emperor.  If you think we aren't headed for a repeat of the 2016 GOP primary, you're crazy.

Nikki Haley, like DeSantis, is afraid to confront Trump (https://aaronrupar.substack.com/p/nikki-haley-presidential-campaign-trump-desantis)

One thing Haley didn’t do in her video was address the orange elephant in the room. She didn’t so much as mention former President Donald Trump, the current polling leader for the Republican nomination. That’s not necessarily a surprise. Since 2016, the GOP in general, and primary candidates in particular, have been afraid to criticize or oppose Trump, even as Trump himself has denigrated and smeared his rivals in the most noxious and irresponsible ways.

Defeating Trump requires, at some point, criticizing Trump. But Trump’s large, enthusiastic base in the party will brook no criticism. If the entire party stood against him, he’d probably be in trouble. But everyone is afraid of being out front; no one wants to share the fate of Liz Cheney, who denounced Trump’s coup attempt and got crushed in her primary. So Republicans boast about their toughness while trembling and genuflecting before their fascist overlord.

This pattern was well established in 2016. Trump’s attacks on his rivals during the primary were bigoted, cruel, and often utterly divorced from truth. In one debate he mocked Florida Sen. Marco Rubio as “Little Marco.” He insulted businesswoman Carly Fiorina’s looks. He did the same to Heidi Cruz, Ted Cruz’s wife. Perhaps most egregiously, he pushed a completely false conspiracy theory about Ted Cruz’s father, who he claimed had been involved in the assassination of JFK.

Trump’s rivals struggled to respond to these smears. The Republican Party largely refuses to believe sexism and racism exist; as a result, it’s difficult for people like Fiorina to accuse Trump of sexism, even when his crude attacks fit the bill. So other Republican candidates largely fell back on accusing him of being unserious or uncivil, or insisted that they’re above such mudslinging. [...]

In fact, the 2024 GOP contest is shaping up much like the 2016 contest. Candidates putatively running against Trump refuse to speak against him, or even to distinguish themselves from him. For example, during a recent CNN appearance, New Hampshire Gov. Chris Sununu not only confirmed he’ll support Trump if he ends up winning the nomination, but distanced himself from his previous criticisms of him. [...]

Trump’s closest competitor in polls, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, hasn’t shown any more backbone. Trump last year gave DeSantis the nickname “DeSanctimonious.” He’s called him disloyal. And recently, based on little evidence, he accused DeSantis of grooming high school girls.

Trump himself has of course been accused by dozens of women of harassment and sexual assault. He is currently being sued for defamation by writer E. Jean Carroll, who says Trump raped her. A tape in which Trump boasted about sexually assaulting women almost derailed his candidacy in 2016. In response to Trump’s insinuations, DeSantis could easily, and rightfully, point out that Trump’s history of sexual violence is extensive and that it should be disqualifying.

Instead, DeSantis followed the unsuccessful Fiorina playbook, blandly suggesting he’s above the fray.

“I don’t spend my time trying to smear other Republicans,” DeSantis said last week, taking the high road where Trump opponents have so often gone to die.

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Anyone who believes that you can take the high road and beat Trump in a GOP primary is delusional.  Trump is going to absolutely wipe the floor with these cowards.

Not surprising but I have the complete opposite take. I think they let him destroy himself. With every desperate attack on DeSantis he has lost support and yet DeSantis hasn't had to do anything. Nikki Haley stood up to Don when she worked for him so I'm pretty sure she is capable of doing so again and when Ron has to debate he will be perfectly capable.

DeSantis is well liked in the GOP and has accomplished things so he doesn't really eed to dignify a desperate man's back yard shit show. Republicans aren't looking for reasons to turn on him like Jeb Bush who everyone already didn't like or Ted Cruz who can be hard to like. Trump will try to paint them as RINOs like Jeb because that worked last time but everyone except for his cronies already knows that isn't true.

I tend to agree with you, CF, but the one thing that scares me is that they tried this strategy before and it failed them hard.  They tried to ignore him instead of facing him head on and by the time they did, it was too late.

Trump is a unique politician.  He's going to go after anyone.  He doesn't care about party loyalty.  There is no bigger picture for him.  So, a lot of the things that would be off limits to other politicians won't be for Trump.  He's going to go after Desantis for banning books, for voting against social security, etc -- all the stuff that will hurt the GOP in the general, he doesn't care.

"Trump was a fantastic President who did an incredible job.  I don't have any disagreement with his amazing policies at all.  And the 2020 election was very sketchy, so I can't disagree when he says he should be President today.

But in this primary, um, please vote for me instead of Trump... who, again, is Really Great and who I would totally support myself!"

How exactly is this strategy supposed to work to win a primary?  It's nonsense.

What I don't get is, Trump DID do a great job.  Biden came and ruined everything, yet people still support Biden.

It's a tough row to hoe for ANY Republican candidate anyway

Low class = Support the Democrats because they get government assistance and are not affected by inflation
Middle class = Support Republicans because they ARE affected by inflation and the economy
Upper class = Support the Democrats because they are not affected by inflation because they make enough money
Super Rich = Support Republicans.

This is why I get really angry when people here tell me i'm voting against my own interests.  It's a complete and utter lie. 

It should be noted that I have yet to hear DeSantis state ANYTHING about his intention to run for president.  I mean, he's a got a pretty sweet gig in Florida.  Maybe he doesn't want to give that up.  Sadly, according the people I know from Florida, he hasn't been able to protect the state from Bidenflation.

(https://blog.shabda.co/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/Dunning-Kruger-Effect.png)

This video does a great job at explaining the disconnect between Trump supports and detractors.  In the video the presenter lists Trump's accomplishments and explains why others don't see them as accomplishments.  Watch until the end. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M6CXhUS-x8

Great video.  Beau always puts out quality content.

I don't disagree with his conclusion, but I also think labels have limited value.  When we are at the point of literal dues-paying KKK members saying, "I'm not a racist... I just think blacks and Jews should live in a separate society," what meaning does the word "racist" even have to them?  The right has embraced the appearance of tolerance but not any of the principles.  And so it is with Beau's conclusion: conservatives will reject the label he mentions while vigorously cheering the principles involved.

---

Back on topic, I found this article (https://www.theatlantic.com/newsletters/archive/2023/02/nikki-haley-campaign-trump/673077/) about Nikki Haley to be telling:

Allow me to remind you that Elise Stefanik exists. She was once the kind of Republican that Haley claims to be, but led by her ambition and fueled by her liquid-nitrogen cynicism, she has since fused herself to Trump. (And it’s paying off for her: At 38 years old, she’s the House GOP conference chair.) To win in 2024, Haley and every other Republican candidate are going to turn into some version of Trump, or Stefanik, or Vance, and this makes every one of them untrustworthy around the levers of national power.

To note this is not to be a permanent friend or foe of any one party. Rather, it is a recognition of political reality. As a former Republican, I’d welcome the spirited primary between, say, former Governor Larry Hogan of Maryland, Governor Chris Sununu of New Hampshire, and former Governor Charlie Baker of Massachusetts. But because I currently live on this planet, I recognize that the GOP race is going to be a Trumpier-than-thou contest among imitators of Trump’s hideous shtick, all of them pretenders to Trump’s gilt-and-glitz throne.

Donald Trump is still the leader of the GOP and its choice (so far) for president in 2024, and Haley, like Florida Governor Ron DeSantis and others, is courting Trump’s base. This means appeasing people who refuse to hold Trump responsible for trying to overthrow our government.

Essentially, as long as all the viable competing options against Trump are just Trump-lite, none of them have any chance of defeating him.  I'm sure CF would quickly agree that the Republicans least like Trump - your Larry Hogan, Charlie Baker, Chris Sununu types - have 0.0% chance of winning a GOP presidential primary.

As long as the voters are captured by Trumpism, the party is beholden to Trump.  Why would you vote for an imitation when you can have the genuine article?

What principles?

Trump gave us

Energy Independence
Secure Borders
China in Check
Peace in the Middle East and between Ukraine and Russia
A booming economy with no inflation
A booming housing market
Low gas prices

That's why he did a great job.

Biden has given us the EXACT opposite of these.

We liked Charlie Baker in MA.  He responded very well to the pandemic.  We never had any hospital crises.  He set up emergency hospitals well ahead of time and we didn't even have to use all of them.

Here's challenge for you liberals.

Name one thing Biden has accomplished in office that doesn't involve taking money away from people who work and giving it to those who do not work.

What's that?  You can't think of any?

THAT'S BECAUSE THERE ARE NOT ANY

Please try to stay on topic.  I realize that these kind of conversations are going to have a certain amount of to and fro, based on the nature of political discussions.  But if you're bringing up a completely new point, start a new thread.