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Title: Just checking in on Covid Post by: CF DolFan on February 14, 2023, 02:35:03 pm I know we don't see eye to eye on much political around here but I've seen major outlets reporting for a while now that masks make little to no difference in preventing Covid and that the CDC exaggerated their statistics to get people to mask up. Here it is even in lefty Chicago Sun Times https://chicago.suntimes.com/columnists/2023/2/8/23591132/cdc-exaggerated-evidence-supporting-mask-mandates-column-jacob-sullum
I'm sure there are plenty of more articles to support masking etc. Hell ... just today I found out I can prevent diabetes and have a better chance at winning the lottery if I take the vaccine. Anyway ... I'm curious if anyone has changed their view or their own personal Covid policies in the last year? Title: Re: Just checking in on Covid Post by: DenverFinFan on February 14, 2023, 02:49:53 pm I haven’t masked in ages, I still avoid crowds as much as possible, I got the latest booster a few weeks ago. My boss who was also fully vaxed just got it and he was really sick and still is feeling pretty bad. I don’t want to get it but I assume it’s inevitable at some point.
Title: Re: Just checking in on Covid Post by: dolphins4life on February 14, 2023, 02:51:36 pm The midterms really made my mind boggle on Covid.
On the pro-vaccine camp: If what the Republicans said was true, there SHOULD have been a red wave, but there WAS NOT. In fact, studies show the Republicans lost a lot more people to the virus than the Democrats did. It's odd that masks don't prevent Covid, but do prevent other respiratory diseases such as the flu. Liberal youtuber Dusty Smith, who makes a living mocking Republicans who died of the virus, mocked a republican who criticized mask mandates for children, then died of Covid, by saying, "You know, we probably should have had the kids wear masks all along. Masking wiped out this year's flu season." On the Anti-vaccine camp: I'm still worried about getting another booster. I got one. I've had Covid once and it sucks, but it wasn't serious. https://www.yahoo.com/sports/belgian-goalkeeper-dies-after-reportedly-collapsing-on-field-following-penalty-save-151153685.html This could be another vaccine-related death. So on one side, you had unvaccinated people filling up the hospitals during the delta and omicron waves. People were people turned away from receiving treatment in the height of the pandemic, even though the GOP said it was not serious. On the other side, you have healthy people dropping dead in unprecedented numbers suddenly. It's not inevitable to get it. My parents have not gotten it yet. Title: Re: Just checking in on Covid Post by: Spider-Dan on February 14, 2023, 03:28:30 pm I know we don't see eye to eye on much political around here but I've seen major outlets reporting for a while now that masks make little to no difference in preventing Covid and that the CDC exaggerated their statistics to get people to mask up. Here it is even in lefty Chicago Sun Times https://chicago.suntimes.com/columnists/2023/2/8/23591132/cdc-exaggerated-evidence-supporting-mask-mandates-column-jacob-sullum I find it really amusing when people who have rejected the findings and advice of the greater medical & science community for nearly three years start citing studies back to me as if I'm supposed to take them (the people, not the studies) seriously. You don't believe in those lying, corrupt "studies" anyway!For example, the organization that produced the review you are citing - the Cochrane Library - also released another review 2 months ago confirming that COVID vaccines are effective (https://www.cochrane.org/news/cochrane-review-covid-19-vaccines-shows-they-are-effective). But you don't believe that made-up BS, right? The larger problem with your approach is that whatever the United States CDC said, there are many other similar government organizations in other countries all around the world; organizations in countries that had a MUCH more effective COVID response than the arguably-world's-worst response of the US. So do you think we should ask those organizations what they think about masking? Somehow, I doubt it. Title: Re: Just checking in on Covid Post by: DenverFinFan on February 14, 2023, 03:40:57 pm Spider, What was wrong with our GOVERNMENT's covid response? All I ever hear people is that Trump "acted slowly" They never specify any specific thing he SHOULD have done, that he didn't. The COVID vaccines are EFFECTIVE if you survive them. That's the key thing. The spike in cardio deaths around the world is definitely something to consider. Show me conclusive proof that there’s been a spike in cardiac illness. Now even if you can you can’t say it’s solely the vaccines, because we know COVID itself wreaked havoc on the heart ( and so many other parts of the body ) Title: Re: Just checking in on Covid Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on February 14, 2023, 04:38:10 pm If you read the study carefully you will see that the study confirmed what most of us already knew -- wearing a mask does little to protect the wearer. But the value of wearing a mask is that it protects others if the mask wearer is sick.
Title: Re: Just checking in on Covid Post by: CF DolFan on February 14, 2023, 05:13:08 pm LMAO ... Some of you guys really have a long winded way of saying nope ... I haven't changed a bit.
Title: Re: Just checking in on Covid Post by: Dave Gray on February 14, 2023, 05:32:47 pm My thoughts on things have stayed mainly the same. There is nuance in understanding the science. The reports vary based on how the virus mutates and all that. We've been over it a bunch of times.
For me: I don't wear a mask anywhere day to day. I do wear a mask if I am sick and have to do something (like go to the grocery to pick up my medicine). I do wear a mask if I am escorting my kid to the doctor where I have reason to believe others will be sick and I will be in their direct contact. I think that masking also has a secondary effect, aside from the efficacy of viral reduction. It keeps you from touching your face and it signals to others to keep distance. Title: Re: Just checking in on Covid Post by: dolphins4life on February 14, 2023, 05:54:12 pm I work in healthcare and the grocery store. I wear a mask there. I do not wear one in my everyday life.
Title: Re: Just checking in on Covid Post by: masterfins on February 14, 2023, 06:31:54 pm I haven't worn a mask in almost a year. I don't have a problem wearing one if I'm going to be around someone that really wants me to wear one. Probably less than 1% of the population that I come into contact with wears a mask. I do try to wash my hands more if I've been in public.
Title: Just curious Post by: dolphins4life on February 14, 2023, 09:19:04 pm Covid has 99% survival rate.
What survival rate would a respiratory disease have to have for you to take precautions? 90% 80% 70% Discuss. I'm at the 99% range, but that's because Covid precautions benefit me because I have a big nose. Title: Re: Just curious Post by: DenverFinFan on February 14, 2023, 10:05:45 pm 99% which I did as best I could for a long time. I should mask again on the bus and in stores tbh.
1% may seem low and it is, but not when it’s your life. More concerning for me than death is the multitude of potentially disabling side effects of which we are still only beginning to understand. We got lucky all things considered. If this was say a 10 percent mortality rate, it would have been catastrophic beyond the comprehension of most. Title: Re: Just checking in on Covid Post by: Spider-Dan on February 15, 2023, 01:38:05 am CF, had you posted this thread and simply asked:
Anyway ... I'm curious if anyone has changed their view or their own personal Covid policies in the last year? ...then it's possible you might have gotten some sincere and maybe even insightful commentary on how COVID mindsets have evolved.But instead, you chose to post the same-old COVID denialist "Hey, did you guys see this article that says If you want more thoughtful engagement, don't post troll content. Title: Re: Just checking in on Covid Post by: dolphins4life on February 15, 2023, 03:19:08 am CF, had you posted this thread and simply asked: ...then it's possible you might have gotten some sincere and maybe even insightful commentary on how COVID mindsets have evolved. But instead, you chose to post the same-old COVID denialist "Hey, did you guys see this article that says If you want more thoughtful engagement, don't post troll content. He posted an article that cited a study from a well-respected and renowned scientific body. Hardly troll commentary to me. Title: Re: Just checking in on Covid Post by: CF DolFan on February 15, 2023, 08:18:50 am CF, had you posted this thread and simply asked: I posted an article but my question was about your personal exerience. You chose to attack the article as if it matters. It's a predictable respone from you, Hoodie, or Stroke but most everyone else understood the assignment. You nor I are going to change each others minds and it isn''t like we are just figuring that out. ...then it's possible you might have gotten some sincere and maybe even insightful commentary on how COVID mindsets have evolved. But instead, you chose to post the same-old COVID denialist "Hey, did you guys see this article that says If you want more thoughtful engagement, don't post troll content. My thoughts on things have stayed mainly the same. There is nuance in understanding the science. The reports vary based on how the virus mutates and all that. We've been over it a bunch of times. I wear one when requested like in a doctors office and would wear one if sick. I have to admit there have been times I was thinking I might should have one on like Christmas crowds in a Walmart or something, but I wasn't wearing one. I just try to remind myself not to touch my face and to wash my hands as soon a I get out of the store. I keep a hand sanitizer in my truck but I was doing that years before Covid as I tend to shake a lot of hands. I don't think any of this is a change from where I have been but the more I see things debunking the effectiveness the less I stress either way. For me: I don't wear a mask anywhere day to day. I do wear a mask if I am sick and have to do something (like go to the grocery to pick up my medicine). I do wear a mask if I am escorting my kid to the doctor where I have reason to believe others will be sick and I will be in their direct contact. I think that masking also has a secondary effect, aside from the efficacy of viral reduction. It keeps you from touching your face and it signals to others to keep distance. Title: Re: Just curious Post by: Dave Gray on February 15, 2023, 08:34:58 am 100%
My interest in preventing myself from getting sick isn't all that closely related to how likely I think I am to die from the illness. Title: Re: Just checking in on Covid Post by: Fau Teixeira on February 15, 2023, 10:15:50 am I wear a mask to Drs appts. and if i'm feeling sick. I also wear one on a plane because everyone is so packed in together.
Title: Re: Just checking in on Covid Post by: dolphins4life on February 15, 2023, 11:14:03 am Trump responded to the pandemic by
1) banning travel to and from China 2) banning travel to and from Europe 3) creating a task force 4) funding Ppe 5) sending a navy hospital ship to NYC How was our response the worst? Title: Our Covid response Post by: dolphins4life on February 15, 2023, 12:44:04 pm How was it the worst on the planet?
Can anybody answer this? Title: Re: Our Covid response Post by: MyGodWearsAHoodie on February 15, 2023, 12:56:00 pm How was it the worst on the planet? Can anybody answer this? Total dead. Title: Re: Our Covid response Post by: dolphins4life on February 15, 2023, 01:10:37 pm Total dead. Doesn't answer the question. Here's why 2 countries One country has one hundred people with compromised immune systems One country has one hundred people with strong immune systems The first country takes immediate action The second country does not The first county loses several people to the virus The second country does not lose anybody to the virus. Do you see now how that response is invalid and does not answer my question? Title: Re: Just checking in on Covid Post by: dolphins4life on February 15, 2023, 02:56:25 pm Can anybody answer the question about our "bad response" now?
Title: Re: Just checking in on Covid Post by: Spider-Dan on February 15, 2023, 03:01:40 pm One country has one hundred people with compromised immune systems You have zero evidence that the US population entered 2020 with worse immune systems that other industrialized countries. You are simply inventing that claim to make excuses for the world-worst response of the Trump Administration.One country has one hundred people with strong immune systems These "questions" you are asking have already been answered multiple times. You simply ignore our answers and then ask them over and over again. I see you're still in the conservative echo chamber on this one. Here's a reality check for you: Trump will have the worst jobs record in modern U.S. history. It’s not just the pandemic. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/01/08/trump-jobs-record/) President Trump took office at the crest of the longest economic expansion in U.S. history. He leaves presiding over the worst labor market in modern U.S. history, as an already-sputtering economic recovery has turned negative. Friday’s awful jobs report from the Labor Department showed there were still 3 million fewer jobs in the United States than there were on Inauguration Day 2017, when Trump stood in front of the Capitol and vowed to reverse the American carnage. No other modern president has left the U.S. with a smaller workforce than it had when they took office. Since the government started keeping track in 1939, no other president has even seen significant job losses during a single presidential term — though job growth during George W. Bush’s first four years in office was essentially flat. Here's some more sources if you don't like Washington Post: Fortune: Trump to leave office with the worst jobs record since Herbert Hoover (https://fortune.com/2021/01/11/us-economy-jobs-numbers-trump-compared-past-presidents-worst-record-since-hoover/) (note: we didn't start keeping those records until after Hoover) CNN: Trump’s job losses are the worst of any American president on record (https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/04/economy/august-jobs-report-trump-jobs-record/index.html) USA Today: Fact check: Chart of job growth by president shows historic unemployment under Trump (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/11/06/fact-check-pandemic-unaccounted-presidential-job-growth-chart/6177339002/) We rate this claim TRUE, based on our research. More jobs were lost during the Trump administration than any other in history. Reuters: Trump ends his term like a growing number of Americans: out of a job (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-economy-trump/trump-ends-his-term-like-a-growing-number-of-americans-out-of-a-job-idUSKBN29D30I) Trump's management of the pandemic was absolutely catastrophic. He insisted over and over that it was not a big deal, and his corrupt cronies used the opportunity to gouge state governments who were trying to get critical medical supplies to help address the problem. It is no accident that the economy quickly recovered under Biden even throughout another year-plus of the ongoing pandemic. The claim that Trump was better on the economy than Biden is exactly the same as the claim that Dubya was better on the economy than Obama. It's unhinged Republican fantasy; completely delusional with no basis in reality. Unless the economy-destroying shutdown-obsessed Democrat-run blue states immediately became pro-business and anti-shutdown the moment Trump left office, there is no difference here; Democrats are still job-killing commies regardless, right? You're just making excuses for why Trump's 9 months of COVID were a complete disaster, while Biden immediately righted the ship (https://www.thebalance.com/jobs-report-monthly-employment-growth-statistics-3305732) when he got into office. This is directly and entirely due to the Trump Administration's pathetic COVID response; it is no accident that Mr. "The pandemic will be over by Easter" (note: Easter 2020 was April 12) presided over TWENTY MILLION LOST JOBS in April 2020, the very same month he said COVID would be done with. And for the record, even prior to COVID Trump's economic growth was feeble compared to Obama's second term, much less Biden's term so far: (http://cdn.statcdn.com/Infographic/images/normal/20480.jpeg) You can make a stronger argument for the George W. Bush economy than the Donald Trump economy. Trump was literally that bad. 1) He downplayed and politicized the virus, telling the whole country (not just "his people") that it wasn't serious and was a political stunt. This caused Americans to be resistant to steps like masking, not least because he himself refused to wear one (and said it made the wearer look "weak"). 2) His corrupt and incompetent administration actively interfered with attempts to mitigate the virus. Not only did they NOT help, they seized (https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/04/hospitals-face-a-white-house-blockade-for-coronavirus-ppe.html) critical medical supplies (https://www.gq.com/story/trump-admin-confiscating-coronavirus-supplies) so they could resell them to the highest bidder (https://www.forbes.com/sites/claryestes/2020/03/28/states-have-are-being-forced-into-bidding-wars-to-get-medical-equipment-to-combat-coronavirus/?sh=11aef5421cde). 3) Trump himself repeatedly interfered (https://khn.org/morning-breakout/trump-white-house-interfered-with-cdc-covid-reports-house-panel-finds/) with the CDC's efforts to inform the public and set public policy. Again, there is a reason why the United States of America had the worst COVID response on the planet despite being the wealthiest nation on earth. It wasn't bad luck or an unhealthy population. It was rank incompetence and corruption, from the very top. Your response to all of this when explained previously? (emphasis added) Not sure how much of that is on him. Republicans would have not taken the virus seriously anyway, so he had to do what he needed to do to appeal to his base. Complete denial and abdication of responsibility.Don't expect any more responses from me on this topic. This has been thoroughly explained to you and you simply reject it. I have no interest in citations of a couple of studies that indicate maybe masks aren't effective when y'all happily ignore DOZENS of studies that show that they are. You're trolling. Title: Re: Just checking in on Covid Post by: dolphins4life on February 15, 2023, 03:40:11 pm Those are your claims.
I disagree with them, but you responded. That's all I asked for. This is a forum, and we are going to disagree, but at least you responded. You contradict yourself You blame Trump for not taking the virus seriously and also blame for the jobs loss due to the virus causing shutdowns. However, it's literally impossible to "take the virus seriously" and "not shut down the country. Attempts to mitigate the virus BY DEFINITION, cause job losses. Ron DeSantis proved this in Florida when he refused to shut down the state. If Righting the Ship means huge inflation and opening borders, I shudder to think what a sinking ship would be. Now, to everybody else in the thread. I think in some countries they wore masks even before the pandemic. It should be noted that many countries with "better" responses have much higher taxation and give much more free stuff to their citizenry, so there citizens could AFFORD to follow precautions. Many Americans are not in that situation. |