The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

The business channel CNBC has released their annual rating of the 10 best (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/14/these-are-americas-10-best-states-to-live-and-work-in.html) and 10 worst (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/14/these-are-americas-10-worst-states-to-live-and-work-in.html) states to live and work:

Each year, as part of our overall assessment of state business climates, CNBC’s America’s Top States for Business study considers how welcoming each state is to workers and their families.

Life, Health and Inclusion is one of the study’s ten categories of competitiveness. And this year, with the nationwide worker shortage so severe, the category is taking on increased importance in our methodology.

We consider multiple quality of life factors, including crime rates, environmental quality, and health care. We also look at the quality and availability of childcare, which is one of the most important factors in getting parents back into the workforce.

Casting the widest possible net for workers means not turning anyone away. So we consider inclusiveness in state laws by measuring protections against discrimination, as well as voting rights. And with surveys showing a substantial percentage of women considering abortion restrictions when making a choice of where to live in the wake of the Supreme Court overturning Roe v. Wade, reproductive rights are part of this year’s equation as well.

Without further ado:

1. Vermont
Strengths: Air Quality, Health Care, Childcare, Voting Rights / Weaknesses: Worker Protections (strong, but not as strong as the rest)
2. Maine
Strengths: Low Crime Rate, Childcare, Healthcare, Inclusiveness / Weakness: Air Quality
3. New Jersey
Strengths: Reproductive Rights, Inclusiveness, Low Crime Rate / Weakness: Air Quality
4. Minnesota
Strengths: Health Care, Reproductive Rights, Voting Rights / Weakness: Crime
5. Hawaii
Strengths: Air Quality, Health Care, Low crime / Weaknesses: Reproductive Rights, Voting Rights, Childcare
6. Oregon
Strengths: Worker Protections, Reproductive Rights, Voting Rights / Weaknesses: Crime, Childcare, Health Care
7. Washington
Strengths: Worker Protections, Inclusiveness, Reproductive Rights / Weaknesses: Crime, Childcare
t-8. Colorado
Strengths: Childcare, Inclusiveness, Voting Rights / Weaknesses: Air Quality, Crime
t-8. Massachusetts
Strengths: Health Care, Worker Protection, Reproductive Rights / Weaknesses: Air Quality, Childcare
10. Connecticut
Strengths: Health Care, Low Crime, Worker Protections / Weaknesses: Air Quality, Voting Rights
...

41. Florida
Strengths: Air Quality, Childcare, Worker Protections / Weaknesses: Inclusiveness, Reproductive Rights
42. Arkansas
Strengths: Childcare, Air Quality / Weaknesses: Crime, Inclusiveness, Reproductive Rights, Health Care
43. Tennessee
Strengths: Childcare, Air Quality / Weaknesses: Inclusiveness, Crime, Voting Rights
44. Indiana
Strength: Crime Rate / Weaknesses: Childcare, Inclusiveness
45. Missouri
Strength: Air Quality / Weaknesses: Voting Rights, Reproductive Rights, Crime
t-46. Alabama
Strength: Air Quality / Weaknesses: Voting Rights, Worker Protections, Inclusiveness, Health
t-46. South Carolina
Strength: Air Quality / Weaknesses: Health, Worker Protections, Inclusiveness, Crime, Voting Rights
48. Louisiana
Strengths: [no metrics in the top 25] / Weaknesses: Child Care, Crime, Reproductive Rights
49. Oklahoma
Strength: Air Quality / Weaknesses: Reproductive Rights, Health, Voting Rights
50. Texas
Strengths: [no metrics in the top 25] / Weaknesses: Reproductive Rights, Health, Voting Rights, Worker Protections, Inclusiveness

That's really surprising that a progressive left channel would rate conservative states where people are flocking to so low while rating the liberal states that people are leaving as high. My mind is blown!! hahahahaha

CNBC is as much of a "progressive left" channel as the Wall Street Journal - which is based in far left New York City - is a "progressive left" newspaper.

The Tea Party famously got its start (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp-Jw-5Kx8k) on CNBC from one of their reporters.

That's why there are 50 different states. Find somewhere that most aligns with your way of living. Everyone has their own version of pros and cons. LMFAO at the media deciding the best and worst places to live based on their own subjective factors. Maybe next they can put out their best and worst list of what to order at Taco Bell.

I'm really curious what worker protection Florida has that makes it a strength.

^ Yeah, Florida is a weird one.  I was under the impression that "right to work" states favored employers over employees, in terms of termination.

But we do have decent unemployment protections, from what I understand.  I don't know if that's state by state.


It is a bit strange to list reproductive rights, since that is a political choice.  Some things, like crime/cost of living vs. wages are objectively bad.  And don't get me wrong -- reproductive rights being taken is bad, too.  But it's what a lot of those places want.

Woo top 10 !!! ..

for the record .. i haven't had any issue with air quality at all. It's pretty freaking pristine here (at least in my part of CT)

Ask anyone that lives in Florida what happened to their homeowners insurance in the past year...  And what's being done to control it?

Healthcare, childcare, voting rights, and worker protections are all political choices.
What makes reproductive rights any different?

They are trying to come up with a solution. Some of the things passed last year will take time to have an effect and they are looking at other things. No doubt with all insurance companies leaving Florida it is a pretty big issue. Cutting out insurance fraud is just one way they are attacking it. 

Imagine using a totally made up metric like "Inclusiveness" instead of COL and tax rates. And Mississippi didn't make the bottom 10? This has to be satire and/or partisan nonsense, just LOL

Reproductive choice is a question of whether or not you have a right to make a personal choice.

It isn't the same as childcare.  There is no law in some states saying you aren't allowed to have childcare if you want it.
I'm not arguing that there is value in having reproductive rights, but it isn't comparable to those other things which are more about funding -- not whether or not you're allowed to do it.

Another way would be to have Florida can just ship a shitload of illegal immigrants to other states, burn a bunch of books, get rid of drag queens, and make the black community say "thank you" for teaching them useful skills.  I'm sure that would help their insurance issues magically go away.

What is the appropriate term for categorizing and ranking the states that are passing many laws (https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/06/politics/anti-lgbtq-plus-state-bill-rights-dg/index.html) targeting LGBT individuals?

This is a reasonable factor to consider when moving to a state.  It doesn't mean much to have a lower income tax rate if you face the prospect of being arrested for using a public bathroom.

What exactly do you consider "targeting"? I mean, what is the appropriate term for categorizing and ranking the states that are passing many laws targeting gun ownership?

Dave, you're talking about the same thing: money.

If you have money, Missouri's abortion ban doesn't hurt you; you go to Kansas or Illinois to get an abortion.
If you have money, the lack of childcare support in Louisiana doesn't matter; your money is still green, so you can hire help.

I provided a link explaining exactly what I mean by targeting: over 400 anti-LGBTQ bills have been introduced in state legislatures across the United States since the start of the year.

But now it seems that you have quickly pivoted from complaining about a totally made-up metric of "inclusiveness" to... asking me to give a name to a different totally made-up metric about gun ownership.  If your argument is that this study should have more heavily weighted states where you can legally own a 100-round magazine, then make that argument.

Unfortunately or fortunately (as Trump would say), Florida is rather uniquely situated to directly experience the consequences of human decisions on climate change that Floridians largely deny are real.

That is not to say that there is anything that the state of Florida could do that would make a difference; the problem is much bigger than the scale of one state.  But many of the people in Florida who reject the prospect of climate change solutions are soon going to get to live their beliefs in a more direct manner.  It's one thing for conservatives in South Dakota or Idaho to insist that this global warming stuff is all a hoax, but - as y'all continue to find out - Florida has much more skin in the game than rural northern states.

I would not be surprised to see Florida continue to slide down these kinds of rankings in the future.

Yeah, I read through it and didn't see anything that stood out. I mean there is no constitutional right to use any bathroom you want to use on a whim. Also, I would think that parents have a legal right to decide and/or be informed on their minor child's medical or mental care. And certainly the howling from liberals about book banning falls on deaf ears when they themselves have tried to ban certain books in the past.


Well, I think the point that went over your head is that you can apply "inclusiveness" to any arbitrary laws that target anyone. If you're making nonsensical firearm laws, you're not being inclusive to gun owners. However, I would like to point out that the 2nd amendment is a constitutional right. Abortion and using whatever bathroom you want on any random day isn't. As pointed out earlier, that's why there are 50 different states. It's literally how the country was founded. Because aside from constitutional rights, not everyone wants to live the same way.

This isn't a top 10 ranking of states where the minimum requirements of the US Constitution are met.  All 50 states meet that standard.
It's a listing of the best and worst states to live and work, and whether a state chooses to make life easier or harder for LGBT residents is a reasonable factor in that ranking.

And that's why a ranking exists!
Because the governing philosophy of some states makes them more attractive as a place to live and work than other states.

Sanity

So you're saying that "targeting" a very small group of people is more important factor in ranking states than "targeting" a substantially large group of people? Seems to me that the larger group being "targeted" would be a more useful metric. 

 

Hence the point that the whole ranking is based on leftist partisan talking points. Most rational people wouldn't use this ranking for the purposes of choosing a place to live. There's a shit load of people moving to FL and TX.

Dammit man. You've completely figured it out that easily. It's a miracle your life hasn't turned out better than it has. I would think you and Elon would be fighting it out for the richest person alive with creative innovational thought like that.

Climate change has nothing to do with insurance fraud and that's the biggest reason our insurances are so high. Hell ... roofing companies alone have cost them untold millions using unethical tactics. For instance, a roofing company would have you sign away your rights with an Assignment of benefits letter and they would represent you to your insurance company. An assignment of benefits, or AOB, is an agreement to transfer insurance claim rights to a third party. It gives the assignee authority to file and negotiate a claim directly with the insurance company, without involvement from the property owner. They would prove you needed a new roof because of some event that was nearby. They would then replace every single piece of plywood as well as soffit because of supposed damage. Many times it ended up with a lawsuit but roofing companies would end up charging insurance companies 25K on an 8-9K roofing job and it was perfectly legal. The homeowner was helpless and would lose coverage the following year. Although it will take time to help insurance companies this is now illegal in the State of Florida under a bill that DeSantis got passed.    

Now he wants to run Bud Light as well... Is this some sort of fall-back position? He knows he has zero chance of being elected President,

He seems to be a very confused individual...

Conservatives certainly seem to believe that affordable healthcare is not a factor in choosing where to live, which is why red states reject Medicaid expansion.

Obviously we can argue over whether the availability of 100-round magazines or available termination of a non-viable fetus that puts the mother's health at risk are "more important" for choosing a place to live.  If you're a conservative, you're probably going to argue for the former.

But the reason why I cited this ranking is that the right is so far gone that you've lost CNBC: the business network that literally launched the Tea Party and is a reliable shill for corporate business interests.  What's next, complaining about the radical communists at Forbes?

California has the largest population of any state, by a wide margin.
Blue states have more residents than red states, again by a wide margin.

If we are going to point at the population scoreboard as evidence for the desirability of different styles of governance, let's look at the total score and not just who scored the most points in the last 5 minutes.

Unless your point is that Florida has more insurance fraud than other states, I'm not sure why this is relevant.  (And if Florida does have more insurance fraud than other states, I'd like to hear why you think that is.)

Florida's insurance rates are going up because Florida is extremely susceptible to the impacts of the changing climate.  Y'all profess to be fans of the free market, so this part should be fairly straightforward.

The earth has been changing climates since the dawn of time but in general it's cyclical. We have a busy year or two and then nothing. We have droughts some years and get flooding on others. It's been that way my entire 54 years of life.  We had 3 hurricanes go over my house in 2004 Charley, Frances, and Jean. Everyone said that was the new normal. It's been almost 20 years and fortunately we haven't had another direct hit.

Hard to get excited when I've already survived many doomsday predications from the "scientific" community. Doomsday predictions predated us but in the 1960s overpopulation and famine forecasts were all the rage. In the 70s it was the big freeze is coming. During my high school years it was acid rain that was destroying the planet and in the 90's they predicted that rising seas would  obliterate nations by the year 2000. Coincidentally in the 2000s is where Al Gore taught everyone that if we didn't fix things by 2012 we would pass the point of no return and all polar caps would be gone by 2016.  New flash ... they are still there and the earth continues to tilt causes changes in the weather. In fact the south pole is getting larger.

Yes, I'm aware that the current conservative position is "The climate changes, but humans have nothing to do with it and no one can do anything about it anyway."

As I said, many like-minded Floridians are going to get to put this belief system into practice shortly.
Your insurance rates will reflect this lifestyle choice.

No, my point is that one is a constitutionally protected right and one isn't. Obviously, that tells us what the lawmakers have chosen to do at the federal level. You can't complain that there are tighter restrictions on non constitutional rights while endorsing more restrictions on constitutional rights. That's exactly why "inclusivity" grade is subjective and bullshit.


Don't care where it's from. It's nonsense


Who care's what the current population is? You cite California and yet they're not in the top 10 on this bullshit list. In fact, I hope anyone from California that wants to move, by all means use this list and move to #1 Vermont. I mean, why not move to the best place it the country to live? FL and TX suck... Please do it and find my corpse and let me know how that worked out LMFAO.

Or maybe when all the insurance companies in FL are gone and FL sinks into the abyss from Hurricane Lucifer. All the conservatives in FL will follow the top 10 list and all move to #1 Vermont. WooHoo, Vermont is a Constitutional Carry state too, win/win. Maybe it will be deep red before too long LMAO

The problem for Spider is that he only uses the rankings of one of the ten categories used because it fits with his political ideology. Texas ranks in the top 10 on 4 of those categories (2 2nds, 1 1st and 1 8th). He is the most diehard democratic party supporter on this board really bordering on being a fanatic. 

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/11/americas-top-states-for-business-2023-the-full-rankings.html (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/11/americas-top-states-for-business-2023-the-full-rankings.html)

The overall rankings of top 10 and bottom 10 are as followed.

1   North Carolina
2   Virginia
3   Tennessee
4   Georgia
5   Minnesota
6   Texas
7   Washington
8   Florida
9   Utah
10   Michigan

Bottom 10

41   Oklahoma
42   Alabama
43   New Mexico
44   Arkansas
45   Rhode Island
46   West Virginia
47   Hawaii
48   Mississippi
49   Louisiana
50   Alaska

^ Those are rankings for business.  Not for individuals.

You have a point. However, individuals follow business.

If that was so then Spider wouldn't have just copied and pasted from the Life, health, and Inclusion Ranking then. Do you want me to copy and Paste from the Cost of living rankings since that is "for Individuals"?

The complete list of the 10 Categories

WORK FORCE
INFRA- STRUCTURE    
ECONOMY
LIFE, HEALTH & INCLUSION,
COST OF DOING BUSINESS    
TECHN & INNOVATION,
BUSINESS FRIENDLI- NESS,
EDUCATION,
ACCESS TO CAPITAL
COST OF LIVING

So which ones do you think are individual based?

State income tax is specifically authorized by the Constitution and affirmed by the Supreme Court in Oklahoma Tax Commission vs. Chickasaw Nation, therefore by your logic, it is irrelevant to consider which states enact their Constitutionally-guaranteed right to collect income taxes when comparing the best states to live and work in.  Q.E.D.

No matter how much you try to insist that people shouldn't care about rights and/or privileges that are not expressly guaranteed by the US Constitution, they do anyway.

California may not be in the top 10 - too many people want to live here, which (according to capitalism) makes the cost of living high - but at least it's not in the bottom 10 like Florida and Texas.

I did also cite "blue states," which comprise the entirety of the top 10.  Meanwhile, the bottom 10 is entirely red states.
Reality has a liberal bias!

Dude, what are you talking about?  The titles of the articles are "These are America’s 10 best states to live and work in" and "These are America’s 10 worst states to live and work in".  The rankings are the rankings from the articles.

If you want to cite their articles ranking different states' cost of living, go nuts!  No one is stopping you.  You can also cite their rankings for best states for businesses (as you did).  My point is exactly the title of this thread: CNBC's ranking of the 10 best & worst states to live and work in for 2023.  If you don't think that's anything that anyone should care about, feel free to make that argument.

Sounds like they didn't factor the actual job market into the equation.

All of these are for individuals.


Is one of us being dense here?

Spider's posted a list called "Top states to LIVE AND WORK"
Pondwater posted a list called "Top states for BUSINESS"

I'm just pointing out that one list targets individuals (those that live and work)
And one list targets (what I assume is where to run a) business.

I don't recall posting any lists in this thread. I would think that most people would ignore these silly lists and do their own research to decide where to live. LOL at trusting the media to decide where to live

Sorry...not pondwater...Raptop posted the business list.

They do? Who is they? I got something in my newsfeed this morning and found it relevant to the conversation. Ironically, it's also a CNBC article dated July 29th. The reality is that most people are flocking to the south. (https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/29/households-earning-200000-dollars-or-more-are-flocking-to-the-south.html) Your assertion that the majority of the general population actually cares about some of these metrics is laughable.

So you have a mainstream media outlet ranking their opinion of the best states to live and work in. Then 2 weeks later, the same media outlet is reporting what states the majority of people are actually moving to. One is a mathematical fact and one is an opinion. If these metrics were as important to people as you say they are, people would be flocking to those states.

Edit: Here's another article with an interactive map that shows the reality. The states Americans are moving to — and the states they are ditching. (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/states-where-americans-are-moving-florida-texas-north-carolina-south-carolina/) Both seem to contradict the agenda you're pushing.

The reason people move to places that have higher property costs is because they would rather live there.  The reason why someone moved to a place with lower property costs is because the price is lower, not because they want to be there.  You can buy a house in Alabama for 1/20th as NYC.  If you think NY is only 10x better than AL you move to AL.  Doesn't mean you think AL is a better place.  The high rent district is the high rent district for a reason -- that is where everyone wants to live.

The actual reality, as I already pointed out and you ignored, is that the overwhelming majority of Americans choose to live in blue states.
 
You want to try to focus on the minority of people who are changing states, while conveniently omitting the significantly larger number of people who choose to stay.  Again, if we want to point at the population scoreboard to validate ideologies, let's look at the total score, not just the last inning.

Not sure what that has to do with anything. We're not talking about current populations of red and blue states, otherwise that would have been one of the metrics. As quoted from the article you posted, "Some states are putting out the welcome mat to attract the biggest, happiest, and most diverse workforce." That statement implies that they're talking about states attracting new people to move there.

The list you posted is bogus. The actual numbers show that most people are moving to states that the list you posted says are the worst states. It also shows that not many of them are moving to the so called best states on that list. And it actually has nothing to do with populations or states, it has to do with you posting bogus nonsense that isn't backed up by the facts or numbers.

So apparently, if you already live in a desirable state, you cannot be counted?

The list is the best and worst states to live and work in, NOT the best and worst states to move to.  The existing people who already live and work in a state most certainly count as people who have chosen that state to live and work in.

LMAO, if you say so