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Covid cases are on the rise again.  There's a new variant out there.  I continue to wear my mask and will continue to do so

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3AMslS6cKw

This is Dr. Fauci being interviewed by CNN about masks.

He is asked to respond to a study that claims they did not work

His response is rather confusing

He says, "When you are talking about at the population level that the data are less strong than than knowing that if you look on a situation as an individual, protecting themselves or protecting them from spreading it, there's no doubt that masks work"

I don't understand what he is saying.  Is there anybody who could break that down for me?

He goes on, 'Different studies give different percentage of advantage of wearing it."  This is clear and easy to understand.

Then, the Cochrane study is brought up:

Fauci seems to contradict himself.  He says, "The data is less strong on the effects of masks on the pandemic as whole, but on an individual level, there's no doubt there is an advantage."

Individuals are part of the pandemic as a whole.  Isn't that contradictory?

He goes on to repeat that at the broad population level the data are less strong, but is strong at the individual level.  What does that mean?

Fauci is a fraud who follows the money so his opinion will always vary according to who is paying him. If you feel safer wearing a mask then by all means go for it. My family and I just got over having Covid again and it was much, much, nicer than the original version. I spent 4 days in the hospital the 1st time and haven't seen anything to convince me that wearing a mask is better than not. If you can smell a fart or cologne then you will breathe in Covid regardless.

He didn’t contradict himself.  He admitted that one study found it was unable to prove masks were effective on a global scale.  Note that isn’t the same as proving they weren’t effective just that the particular data set wasn’t conclusive either way.  Multiple other studies proved they are effective.

The typical masks people wear (NOT N95 type masks) do very little to protect you from GETTING Covid, their purpose is to prevent the WEARER (who already has covid) from spreading it to others.  If you think about a surgeon wearing masks/gloves/etc. it's to protect the patient from catching something from the hospital staff, not from catching something from the patients (yes there are some times it's the opposite, but not normally).

^ I don't think people WANT to understand this.  It's been said again and again for three years and it's just ignored by the people who want to ignore it.

I saw a study the other day that was basically about how people are too dumb to understand science in relation to COVID.  That, in a lot of these places, it came down to intelligence in order to get people to understand how to protect themselves and that was the failure -- people's science understanding and education is so poor that even when the information is available to them, they don't get it.

That’s a BS perspective and one that’s just trying to shame people into following directives. For instance … the science showed kids were least affected by Covid and yet people wanted them home schooled or no schooled. Those same people were freaking out because I chose not to wear a mask or stay home because I saw it was only a threat to people who were already compromised by something else. I also knew I had antibodies after having Covid which our leaders were telling us were useless. We all saw the same science but now more people believe like I did and are refusing to mask back up. Interpreting science results has somehow become political and I’m not entirely sure why as there are very intelligent people on both sides.

As I recall, spending 4 days in the hospital did not change your opinions on masking.
So it's hard to imagine any less severe event changing your mind.

I only read the headline originally, but I think this might be the study about intelligence and COVID: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8584527/

The facts on COVID evolved as time went on and scientists learned more.  At first, they said not to wear masks because there was a supply shortage and literally hospital employees needed them the most.  

Once that was cleared, they said "everyone should wear masks OR stay home" and them people got mad about that because of the evolution of the instructions.  Its common sense that wearing a literal particulate filter over your face would HELP prevent the spread of germs of any kind.

Now people have pretty much stopped wearing masks, although some still do an I am fine with that.  But that's largely because of the implementation of vaccinations.  When people started getting vaccinated, masks became less important because COVID became less deadly.

Here's the thing - SCIENCE DOESN'T HAVE "SIDES" - Science is the discovery of fact.  There is no beliefs, no persuasion.  Its fact.  Like anything, science discoveries can evolve and change over time, and we have to accept that and adapt as it comes.  The denial of science, for some people, isn't a political stance, its just rhetoric.

I spent 4 days in the hospital because they said I had double pneumonia. I never had any breathing issues per se. All I wanted was an IV at a walk-in ER because I was dehydrated and they transported me to the hospital. Fat guy with high blood pressure did well because I was only 50 and exercise pretty regularly.  Had I been 65 I might have been taken more precautions as senior citizens need to do but I didn't feel the need.

We actually took 3 vacations out of the state of Florida that year (2 to Gatlinburg, Tn and 1 to Blue Ridge, Georgia) to heavily populated areas and never got sick because we maintained safe distances but no masks. It wasn't until my daughter brought it home and we physically touched that we got it.  Even then if we had known her "sniffles" were covid and not allergies we would have probably been ok.

I just remembered this which will probably really freak you out Spider. I found out Christmas Eve day I had covid although I had been sick for a few days. My wife was just starting fevers etc. On Christmas Day my in-laws made us come over if just for a bit as my SIL and BIL were visiting from out of town. They all hugged us, ate with us, and opened presents without the first mask on and no one else got sick. Crazy right? hahaha

Teachers and school staff exist and they also count in this whole decision to shut down in-person schooling.

Teachers are not first responders, they have no ethical responsibility to be exposed to potentially lethal threats because people chose to send their sick kids to school.

It's really not all that complicated:

In times of a pandemic with airborne virus, everyone distancing and wearing masks where possible helps reduce chance of infection in a variety of ways.  You could not wear a mask and have someone sneeze in your mouth and you still might not get COVID.  Or you could both wear masks and get COVID anyway.  It's just about swinging the percentages to reduce exposure.

Vaccine, distancing, extra care to hygiene, masking...even not putting yourself in certain situations, understanding your personal risks -- they are al just tools in the tool box that when used in conjunction can help reduce the chances of severe illness and potential death.  Those that used these tools did better statistically than those that did not.

It's obviously the people that know better than anyone else that most obviously don't understand this.
Resist masking, Resist vaccines. Resist social distancing. All as some sort of political statement.

Herman Cain award winners, all of them.

Can anybody explain what Fauci means by the global level vs the individual level?

The big question is, do they help against Covid? 

For CF, this link is for you. Covid does affect children

https://www.news4jax.com/news/2021/08/10/pediatric-covid-19-hospitalizations-spike-in-florida/

I don't even know what you're talking about, but I think this is what is being said.


Don't look at one mask on one person's face an try to determine that person's benefit.   (individual)
Look at all masks on everyone's face and see that it helpful to the community.    (global)


A virus is about whether or not you are doing what you can do to avoid it.  But also....by masking worldwide, there will be fewer instances of the virus for you to bump into.

And the data, on a grand scale, is that masking lowers transmission rates, in general, which means there's less COVID being passed around to catch.



Some dude who has COVID at the grocery store might sneeze.  That sneeze is spit particles in the air.  Someone else walks through that cloud.   They get COVID.  Then that person comes to your house to fix your A/C and you got COVID.  Maybe that person who gave you COVID was even wearing a mask.

But if the first guy at the grocery was wearing a mask, maybe his sneeze doesn't stay in the air as long.  Maybe someone sees him with a mask on and avoids him.   But maybe COVID doesn't spread to the 2nd guy, which means you don't get COVID because the guy fixing your A/C doesn't have it.

The point in that story is that even though your behavior didn't change on an individual level, the community behavior changed and you didn't get COVID as a result.

That's the opposite of what Fauci said in the video.  He said that masks were NOT effective on a global level, but work on an individual level.  I don't get what that means

Watch the video and tell me if YOU understand it.

I also don't understand what that means.

I'll have to look into it further.

Pneumonia is a lung disease.  You were in the hospital with "double pneumonia" and you "never had any breathing issues"?
Answer me this: did you test positive for COVID when you were in the hospital with double pneumonia but "no breathing issues"?

Again, y'all are willing to dismiss literal suffocation to death while on a respirator as "with COVID, not from COVID" so I'm not sure what could possibly change your mind.

The day I first had COVID symptoms, I was indoors all day long with 5 coworkers.  My dad came to my house and gave me a hug while I had a 101+ fever.  Everyone involved was wearing cloth masks, and no one else tested positive.

I'm sure you will take a very different conclusion from this event than I did.

I watched the video.

Fauci DOES NOT say this: "He said that masks were NOT effective on a global level".  So I don't know where you're getting that from.

He very clearly says that there are many studies that show masks work.

He is claiming that the data available is stronger at proving it on an individual wearer than on a population.  I don't know why that is.  I can speculate that it's easier to control for variables in the test.

Maybe it's hard to tell what amount of people are wearing masks in a population, where as it's easy to tell in studies of small amounts of people.


He's also not drawing conclusions in that statement.  He's just explaining that the data draws a clearer line in individual cases that in full populations.  But he also concedes that the amount of benefit is different in different studies.

Wait....

If he was in the hospital with double pneumonia, and tested positive for Covid while there, that is CLEARLY being hospitalized WITH Covid and not FROM Covid, right?

That's what makes things so tricky to understand. 

You also gotta understand Fauci.  He isn't making the science.

He's just explaining the data that other people are testing and helped recommend policy around those conclusions.  He's like the "manager".  It's not like he has every answer on every COVID thing past and future -- he's just interpreting the data that other studies show.  He's the PR guy for the White House trying to help the population understand the data that they have.

And it's his old job and he's retired.  It's weird that he's the face of COVID for people to hate on.  He's the guy responsible for reporting the data and making recommendations based off of it.  But science is a worldwide community with a variety of tests looking at different things with different variables and controls and even conclusions.

If we've learned anything from this, it's probably that we shouldn't have one person come up and tell the story, because he will be called a cheat and a schill and get vilified.

Pneumonia - the lungs filling with fluid - is one of the many documented symptoms of COVID.

CF was obviously admitted to the hospital for some reason; if he had "double pneumonia," then it's hard to believe that he was breathing normally.  The idea that you can go to the hospital with breathing problems, test positive for COVID, and believe that your lung ailment is Just A Coincidence is exactly why COVID denialism makes this kind of discussion so unproductive.

I thought pneumonia was a separate disease altogether.  Are you saying Covid CAUSES pneumonia?  That would make more sense

If your lungs fill with fluid as the result of an infection, you have pneumonia.
That infection can be COVID-19, or something else.

thats why theres viral pneumonia and bacterial pneumonia.. the viral is the cause, pneumonia is the symptom

I swear I didn't and my O2 level wasn't bad. They did a CT scan with contrast in the hospital to determine that. They didn't say but I guess they heard something in the stethoscope to suspect something but at any rate all I was looking for was an IV and some nausea medicine. Once I had that I felt much better. It was then they ran more tests. Oddly enough they admitted my wife when her O2 level dropped but she didn't have pneumonia. They never even scanned her.

BTW not sure why the question but yes I had tested positive for Covid and the pneumonia was a result of having Covid.

I will say outside of the lung doctor most of the nurses and other doctors had a pretty laid back attitude to the whole thing. The lung doctor would always keep his distance and make sure I had a mask on while others would tell me to remove my mask and make myself comfortable.  

IMO regularly washing your hands, or using hand sanitizer, does more to prevent you from getting or spreading covid (and many other things).

Sure, and no-one's saying it doesn't help, but it doesn't invalidate every other measure.

This is why it's hard to determine mask vs no mask because you can't control for that single factor. You have to look at overall trends, and discount any anecdotal accounts (my cousin never wore a mask and never got covid, my aunt's step-son's friend wore one all the time and got covid 7 times).

It's also hard to gauge secondary effects. 

I think that social distancing is much more naturally occurring when everyone is wearing a mask.  When I see people in a mask in a grocery store, I don't go near them, perhaps even subconsciously.  (This is only my individual experience).  Also, you're not touching your face as much when you wear a mask.  It might have unintended effects that aren't easily measurable in a lab.

I mean, it's like asking which is most effective at preventing serious injuries resulting from car accidents: not texting while driving, not drinking and driving, or wearing a seatbelt?  They aren't mutually exclusive options; you can wash your hands regularly, wear a mask, and practice social distancing all at the same time.

its also hard to evaluate because a segment of society will object and not participate and its difficult to weed them out statistically.  Covid would have ended in 2 weeks had EVERYONE stayed home and not gone anywhere.  EVERYONE.  That's why lockdowns don't work, because if 10% of people don't participate, its useless.

When I'm out, I avoid going near people in general.  I don't feel the need to wear masks but i also got use to giving people 6 feet space and i just continue doing that now.  We don't need to be all up in each others' junk.

I think that is the biggest thing. I unknowingly had Covid for 3 1/2 days at work but no one else caught it as we give each other space when we are talking.

Are you saying social distancing worked, but the masks did not work?

In the media these days, the narrative is almost 100% the following.

- Lockdowns did not work
- Masks did not work
- Social distancing did not work.

People are looking to Sweden as an example.  Sweden imposed no lockdowns and mask mandates, but they did do social distancing.

According to Wikipedia, Sweden had a much higher death toll than its Nordic Neighbors.  Wikipedia also states that the effect on the heatlhcare system was huge.  It states that "Tens of thousands of operations were postponed, and only emergency and Covid care were available in the Winter of 2020."  It also states that "Stockholm's healthcare system because seriously overwhelmed during the Winter Surge"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Sweden

Now, as a layman, I have to ask, isn't the point of lockdown to prevent the healthcare system from being overrun?  Isn't the point of preventing the healthcare system from being overrun precisely so people don't have treatments delayed?

Wikipedia goes on to state that in December 2020, the prime minister of Sweden DID start recommending masking.

Oooh, I just realized something.  In this country, after the lockdowns were lifted and the the vaccines started rolling out, during the Delta and Omicron waves, most people in the hospital were not vaccinated.

I just don't understand.  If the Anti-Covid people are wrong, why isn't there any pushback in the media from people saying that they are wrong? 

This has not been my experience.  You may be getting algorithm based news.  What are your sources and how are you finding them?

If it were the other way around (wearing masks protected the wearer) why would the government manadate you wearing them? They don't give a shit if you die because you can't be bothered, they are trying to prevent you from killing someone else because you can't be bothered.