The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

Vic Fangio on what went wrong in Miami:

“Nothing really. Up until the last couple of games, we were ranked very high in defense. We were top 5 in every stat. Then we lost 6 or 7 starters over last few games”
@PFN365
 #SuperBowl

Kind of funny that a "grumpy old man" didn't throw our lazy, undisciplined, players under the bus.

According to this Dolphins were the 23rd most injured team.

So healthier than most.  If you can only win with no injuries you can't win.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/2024-most-injured-nfl-team

"If you ignore the beginning of the season (when the defense couldn't stop the Chargers or the Bills) and the end of the season (when the defense couldn't stop the Titans or the Ravens), the defense was actually really good"

This data is busted.

The link you provided is for 2024 (not 2023 when Fangio was in Miami), which you can see by the team W-L records.  But if you change the URL to 2023, the records change but the list is in exactly the same order.

Not that I disagree with your point but that isn't the correct season.

I thought we were talking about this year.  Didn't know you guys were still making excuses about the prior year.  But that year you were 23 as well.

I hope you aren't using that same site as "evidence" of the rankings, because - as I just explained - unless the numbers for "most injured team" were precisely identical from '23 to '24, that data is wrong.

Sounds eerily familiar to the 1993 Dolphins who were winning left and right with Scott Mitchell.   They had a 9-2 overall record, beat Dallas on Thanksgiving Day, and had the number one seed in the AFC.   Then they lost a bunch of defensive starters including Troy Vincent and Marco Coleman and proceeded to lose their final five games and miss the playoffs entirely.

Fangio also played nice when asked about the differences between the Miami and Philly organizations.

“It’s just a whole lot different. The whole organization top to bottom. It’s just different. Not to say one is better than other.” - Vic Fangio via David Bearman, Pro Football Network

Fangio's smart enough not to burn those kind of bridges, especially if he may be in line for a head coaching gig somewhere in future.

The last thing he needed to say was something like "the owner is a demented old fart, the GM was clueless, the coach was a dope, and the players were a bunch of spoiled brats". Anything like that will come back to bite, regardless of how true it may be or not.

One has to think Fangio's experience of the Dolphins' team culture was analogous to his being a restaurant manager who tried to get his employees (i.e., the defensive players) to be dedicated to the job and give high effort, only to be undermined by the restaurant owner (i.e., McDaniel) who frequented the establishment as a silly drunk who permitted the employees to behave similarly.  Nobody would want to persist in that capacity under those circumstances.  All he needed to do was make a move to a team with a better leader and a better culture and the struggle to get players to be serious and dedicated disappeared.

As well as being diplomatic about the organization, he pointed out how specific injuries had derailed us at the end of the season:

https://dolphinswire.usatoday.com/2025/02/04/vic-fangio-dolphins-defensive-coordinator-nothing-really-eagles/

“Up until the last couple of games, we were ranked very high in defense. We were top five in every stat. Then we lost six or seven starters over last few games.”

Dolphins players that went down in the latter half of the regular season included Bradley Chubb, Jaelan Phillips, Andrew Van Ginkel, Jerome Baker, and Xavien Howard. In Miami’s playoff loss against the Kansas City Chiefs, the team was forced to start Duke Riley at inside linebacker, Eli Apple at cornerback, and Melvin Ingram at outside linebacker.

By the time we got near the playoffs, we were just signing guys off the street to make up a full squad for defense. I remember Ingram looking totally out of shape and struggling to finish the game out. Referring to injuries is usually seen as a crutch, all teams have to deal with them, but in this case I think there's some merit.

There is no evidence that McDaniel interfered with how Fangio ran the defense in Miami.

Also, Fangio had to start caring, which he didn't do in Miami.
Having superior defensive talent (that remained healthy) didn't hurt.

I seem to remember that PHI made the Super Bowl two years ago, before Fangio was the DC.

Philly has a lot of great young talent who bought into Fangio and played disciplined football. Miami has guys who think they are the stars and didn't care for him. It was known that Ramsey and others would freelance. The results speak for themselves.

A head coach will inherently interfere with a coordinator if the coordinator needs a serious, dedicated approach from his players to run his unit, and the head coach, who has more organizational power than a coordinator, establishes a lax, silly team culture in which the players in general aren't sufficiently serious and dedicated and accountable.

It's not that the head coach is "tinkering" with the defense and interfering in that way -- it's that he's establishing, intentionally or unintentionally, a team culture that keeps the coordinator from having the ingredients he needs within the players to be successful.

"Disciplined football" is not something Mike McDaniel engenders.

+1

When players complain about a coach because he doesn't want them partying during the season, then you know they don't have the determination to be the best at their jobs.

It’s also fair to ask: Why do Fangio’s old-school methods work better on the hardscrabble Eagles than the country-club Dolphins?

That’s the kind of questions the Dolphins general manager Chris Grier and McDaniel should be dissecting over the coming weeks as they try to right this franchise.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/dave-hyde-philadelphia-won-super-bowl-on-back-of-dolphins-other-team-s-mistakes/ar-AA1yKpBC?ocid=BingNewsSerp

Another question that should be asked:

Given that Fangio signed an agreement to become a temporary defensive consultant for the Eagles (https://www.nfl.com/news/vic-fangio-quietly-signed-contract-with-eagles-to-help-prepare-them-for-super-bo) after having agreed in principle to become the highest-paid defensive coordinator in the league with the Dolphins, how committed was Fangio to Miami in the first place?

Should the Dolphins' front office have been more concerned from the very start about Fangio's level of commitment?

The Eagles defense was decent in 2022 (top ten), but was horrible in 2023, ranking 26th overall and 31st against the pass:
https://www.foxsports.com/articles/nfl/2023-nfl-defense-rankings-team-pass-and-rush-stats

Fangio was brought in specifically to clean that up, and with an excellent draft netting both Mitchell and DeJean, this season they're ranked 1st in both total defense and pass defense.

A decent run with injuries certainly helped (that said, Nakobe Dean would have been a very handy addition) but Fangio deserves a lot of credit. Plus, if you want to drag out the injury card, as previously mentioned the Dolphins defense under Fangio was in the top 5 of all defensive categories up to the start of all those injuries to our starters the last few games.

None of this prevents Fangio from holding his defensive players accountable to his (Fangio's) own standard.

Fangio had the power to run his defense as he saw fit, including the "culture" for the players on the defensive side of the ball.  If he chose not to exercise that power - possibly because he was checked out and never wanted to be in Miami in the first place - he is responsible for that failure.

When you are in charge of the defense, you do not get to blame "culture issues" on someone else.  It was Fangio's job to establish a culture of accountability for the defense, and (according to you) he utterly failed to do so.

Why would he want to continue doing the additional work of attempting to correct in his defensive players McDaniel's mismanagement of the team culture when he could just as easily go where there's a better head coach and a better culture and offload that additional work?

It is inaccurate to use the term "additional work" if you never did the work to begin with.

The defensive culture was always Fangio's responsibility.  That's why he was made the highest-paid DC in the league!

Jevon Holland is suddenly a fan of Fangio. One of the first responses to his twee said "Vic back to you" and they posted a gif of Snoopy kicking rocks. hahaha


Jev
@quickdrawjev
Vic calling a HELL of a game!
8:20 PM · Feb 9, 2025
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375.8K
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The defensive culture can be the DC's responsibility, but if the culture the DC is trying to establish is sharply at odds with the culture the head coach establishes for the team as a whole, the job will likely no longer be attractive.  The DC can simply get a new job where that isn't at issue, and the task of working at odds with his head coach no longer on the DC's plate.

Hence this passage in the following article:

It’s also fair to ask: Why do Fangio’s old-school methods work better on the hardscrabble Eagles than the country-club Dolphins?

That’s the kind of questions the Dolphins general manager Chris Grier and McDaniel should be dissecting over the coming weeks as they try to right this franchise.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/dave-hyde-philadelphia-won-super-bowl-on-back-of-dolphins-other-team-s-mistakes/ar-AA1yKpBC?ocid=BingNewsSerp

There's a reason why that's a legitimate question, and it's exactly because of what I'm saying here.

Holland wants a gig in Philly next season?

Better harden up MF  ;D ;)

That whole article questions the attitude of the players, the coaches, the GM and the owner. Basically the whole franchise under Ross.

Is this a serious team that wants to win a title, or a money making machine and a sideshow? Maybe it deserves a thread of its own?

There's a reason why Dan Campbell emphasized the things he did in his introductory press conference with the Lions:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLhlzaL82zY

That sets a tone for the entire franchise.  He's telling the world what the Lions' team culture is going to be.

Dan Campbell is the perfect example of what I'm talking about, and that press conference is exactly why.

You complain about McDaniel being a "goofball coach," but Campbell was compared to The Dude from The Big Lebowski (i.e. a comedy movie) when he started.  And he embraced this comparison (https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30754199/dan-campbell-references-kneecap-biting-big-lebowski-entertaining-introduction-detroit-lions-coach), to the extent that he literally put it on the nameplate of his office:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EsSG6o7W4AQ7s2F?format=jpg&name=small)

And that "biting kneecaps" press conference you are praising today?  It was considered a joke across the league when it happened (https://www.forbes.com/sites/donyaeger/2024/01/15/detroit-lions-coach-dan-campbell-is-true-blue-right-down-to-his-kneecaps/):

The clip was a head-scratcher and a headline-maker. Memes followed – the Detroit Lions were all about biting kneecaps – and went viral, some affectionate, but most incredulous and totally convinced that here, in the person of a coach who in truth looks like 10,000 auto workers in Detroit, only a bit bigger, was another reason to make the Lions the butt of a joke.

But the difference - the only difference that ever matters - is that Dan Campbell has won 27 games in the last 2 seasons, along with a conference championship appearance and a #1 seed.  So he can openly compare himself to the lead of a famous comedy film after a widely-ridiculed press conference about "biting kneecaps" and have people like you praise him for his no-nonsense toughness, while you simultaneously bash McDaniel for being an unserious jokester.

And that difference is largely because Campbell's personality -- what his team takes on -- is consistent with winning at a high level in pro football.  McDaniel's isn't.

Scan through a list of the most successful head coaches in the history of college and pro football and you'll find lots of "Dan Campbells."  You won't find a single Mike McDaniel.

And it ain't any more complicated than that, Spider-Dan.

LMBO ... that was first thought as well.

So it's not about whether you're a "goofball," because you can openly compare yourself to a famous character from a comedy movie.  It's about wins and losses, like I said from the very beginning.

Fixating on all this "Pee Wee Herman" nonsense is a waste of time, because Dan Campbell is out here coaching like The Dude and you're clapping wildly.  The only thing that matters is winning.

And if you can scan through a list of the most highly successful coaches in college and pro football history -- you know, the ones who've done lots of "winning" -- and you can find lots of Dan Campbells and not a single Mike McDaniel, then you might figure being a goofball gets in the way of winning, whereas being whatever Dan Campbell is doesn't.

If putting "The Dude" on the nameplate to your office (in an explicit reference to The Big Lebowski) doesn't qualify as "being a goofball," the term has no meaning.

Nobody is confusing Dan Campbell for Mike McDaniel, regardless of what the nameplate on his office says.

One more thing:


So who are these "lots of coaches" who have done something as silly putting a movie character reference on the nameplate to their office?

Here's a better question:  name a single coach in college or pro football history who's been highly successful and has Mike McDaniel's personality.

Apparently the answer to your question is Dan Campbell!

I mean, what has McDaniel done that qualifies as goofier than putting a movie character name on your office nameplate?  Why is McDaniel labeled as "Pee Wee Herman" while a coach who self-styles as The Dude is praised as no-nonsense (but somehow still fun-loving)?

Again, nobody but apparently you is confusing Dan Campbell for Mike McDaniel.

McDaniel looks like a nerd, Campbell looks like a football player. How could a nerd possibly have what it takes to be successful at the manliest man game.

(that was sarcasm btw, in case it didn't come across)

Oddly enough, McDaniel actually doesn't look like a nerd.  He actually appears quite stylish, fashionable, current, and sophisticated.

His personality, however, which involves a far deeper and more meaningful level of functioning than mere appearance, is far different from that of any coach in history who's been highly successful at the college or pro level.

Take a look at this for example:

https://www.tiktok.com/@nfl/video/7439454438915444014

In terms of mere appearance, there is nothing distinguishing Mike McDaniel from Bill Belichick or Nick Saban for example.  In fact you could say McDaniel appears even less nerdy than either of them.

His personality however is vastly different.  They are serious and stern and function with somewhat of an angry "edge" that is palpable to everyone around them, which is highly typical of the most successful head coaches in history (e.g., Don Shula, Vince Lombardi, Chuck Noll, Bear Bryant, Woody Hayes, etc.).

McDaniel on the other hand is generally Pee Wee Herman -- a silly, goofy amateur comedian -- which is consistent with no highly successful head coach in history.

It wouldn't be as noteworthy if McDaniel's personality was somewhere in the middle, like that of John Harbaugh or Mike Tomlin or Andy Reid for example.  But instead his personality is about the opposite of that of the most successful coaches in history.  He's at the complete opposite end of the continuum.

If you're betting on whether a coach like that can be highly successful in the NFL, it wouldn't be wise to stake much of your assets on it -- you'd be betting on something that's never been done before and has zero track record of success.

But this is what the Dolphins' organization at present is betting on, with everything it's got.

Andy Reid, famous in many television commercials for not being goofy

After mentioning Dan Campbell and Andy Reid by name, the only thing that would make this better is if you singled out Bill Belichick or Sean Payton as coaches well-known for how strictly they adhere to the rulebook.

And here's Bill Cowher being goofy in a commercial:

https://www.facebook.com/BlitzburghJagoff/videos/bill-cowher-and-dora-the-explorer-super-bowl-commercial-steelers/2790380674558721/

Do you figure that was how his teams experienced him in general as their head coach?

Now compare that to the following, which is actually being communicated to a team by its head coach on a pro football field just before the kickoff in a game:

https://www.tiktok.com/@nfl/video/7439454438915444014

To try to defend this point, you are forced to cite a video Cowher made 20 years after his retirement from coaching.

Andy Reid is a current NFL coach.

The question is, do you figure Andy Reid's teams experience him in general the way a script tells him to portray himself in a TV commercial?

Nobody had to give Mike McDaniel a script for the following -- he generated it himself and communicated it to his team, on a pro football field just before the kickoff in a game:

https://www.tiktok.com/@nfl/video/7439454438915444014