The Dolphins Make Me Cry.com - Forums

It will be an interesting national vote for tomorrow, with similarities to Canada, in that there's a relatively unpopular Government with a majority (Labor, which is closest to the Labor equivalent in the UK) and the Liberal-National party coalition alternative Government (originally moderate right wing, but drifting further right), as well as the various Independent candidates and Greens (extreme left), and One Nation (extreme right) and Trumpet of Patriots (trying to be a MAGA rip-off) at the other end trying to have some influence. Polls have swung drastically away from the challengers since Trump came to office.

The major difference between voting in Australia and the USA is that it is compulsory to show up to vote, get your ballot papers, and put them in the box. So most people do take the time to decide on the least repulsive candidate to vote for (or alternatively draw a gigantic phallus on the voting papers as a protest to tell them all to go fuck themselves). There are two votes on the day, one for the lower house of representatives, and one the senate. There is no vote for a President - our Head of State is the King/Queen of the UK, and their representative here, the Governor General, and is largely a Ceremonial Role. So it works like the UK - Royalty basically stays out of it unless the very unlikely situation occurs that a Government is completely unworkable resulting in a dismissal of the Government and a orders new vote (as what happened in 1975). The Prime Minister is the leader of the party that wins, and while he does have some influence on that party, he doesn't have anything like the individual power of a President.

We also have other state elections, which are similar to the elections for Governors in the USA, and a similar layer of bureaucracy. That said, the six Australian states and two territories are in scale a lot larger than a lot of countries. Our largest state Western Australia is about the 4x the size of Texas, and where I live South Australia which is the third biggest state is about 1.5x the size of Texas (or the size of the state of Ontario, or France and Germany combined).  

Canada's government was quite unpopular until Trump fired them up. Not sure of the climate there but he basically created a push back on anything conservative in Canada.

Thanks for the news of your elections.  We'll never hear anything about it here in the US because we are egoists, most of our population can't even name the people that represent them where they live.

Trump is very unpopular here, with the major reason being his favoritism of Putin and trying to blackmail Ukraine into surrendering - his stance with tariffs causing world chaos hasn't gone down well either.

Any party or individual trying to whip up any kind of MAGA sentiment are finding themselves about as popular as a fart in an elevator (with the notable exception Murdoch's media empire who love them). 

How did the Elections go? Did your candidates win?

While I am not a professional detective, I did stay in a Holiday Inn last night and I guessing that the anti-Trump candidate won,  and that Downunder Dolphan supported the anti-Trump candidate.   

The election result was similar to what happened in Canada, there was also a significant swing here to the existing Labor Government away from the Liberal/Coalition challengers (to the extent that the opposition leader also lost his own seat and is now effectively kicked out of politics altogether), while the vote for the independents remained relatively the same, and the left leaning Greens also lost votes and seats to Labor.

Effectively in a time of uncertainty, people looked for a Government with more central policies to represent everyone, and as a result the parties that were seen to have drifted too far to the right (Liberal/Coalition who used to be far more central at their core) and to the left (Greens) paid the price for it. The real extreme right parties (One Nation) were pretty much unaffected, as their small voter base is rusted on and now consistent.


My first preference votes for the lower house and the Senate were for an Independent candidate, as I thought they would represent my local community interest a lot better than the incumbent Liberal candidate who had done nothing for the last three years apart from sending me a fridge magnet calendar and newsletter annually. He was voted out of his previously safe seat after a huge swing against him, but it was a Labor candidate who replaced him instead of the Independent that I had as my first preference.

Our voting slips have a preferential system where you number all the candidates in the lower house, and at least 6 parties or 12 candidates for the Senate. While your first preference (and associated money allocated to a political party per ballot) goes to who you put as #1 on you slip, if they are eliminated from the first round of counting when they get to the top two parties contending for the job, your second preference comes into play, etc. So effectively if your first preference doesn't count for the result, they go to the next one, etc, until it gets to one of the final two candidates in contention. The net effect is that for the vast majority of people who vote, it will be a part of determining the outcome of their representative, and ultimately the Government and the Senate.

As far as my own voting goes, I'm pretty much a central/swinging voter. I have voted for Labor, Liberal and Independents in the past - it really depends on how well I think they represent my values and community, and what policy and vision they have for the country. For the last two elections, after the Independents, I did have Labor ahead of the Liberal/Coalition in my preferences due to the latter's drift away from the center, lack of any real, costed policies to actually move the country forward, and Leadership that can only be described as nasty and incompetent.

In this case... yeah, Hoodie is close enough to the mark as I voted for a non Trump-like alternative. As did the majority of the nation.

Ps. Another major change in this Australian election is that the voter base has changed - for the first time there were more Gen Z and Millennials voting than the Baby Boomer Generation. Over the years the primary votes have slipped from about 80% going to the two major parties down to 60%, with the balance directed to Independents and minor parties. This trend looks to continue while the major parties are struggling to connect with new voters, but in particular the Liberal primary vote seems to be drifting the worst as they continue to pander more to the Boomers.

So mandatory voting, first past the post and ranked choice ?

That's pretty close.

It's compulsory to attend a voting booth or to get a postal vote and mail it in. The main thing is getting your name crossed off when you attend a voting center or mail something, what you do with your vote is your own business.

Some people with no interest in this at all choose to "donkey vote", and that's just numbering the boxes top to down (or left to right on the Senate form) with no regard as to who they are voting for. It was speculated that one very unpopular Senator from another state got in this way, because he happened to draw the first spot on the form in the random ballot to determine positions.

Then there is the "informal" vote where people don't vote for any candidates at all, they just attend so they don't get a fine. It's a bit of an unofficial Australian tradition that if you don't like any of the candidates, you draw a large penis on the voting slip. The Senate voting slip is about two feet long now, so that's an impressive feat!

I have more respect for someone drawing a 2ft penis than someone marking random selections that can sway the results.

Very true.

But we have people having to show up to vote (along with a groundswell of independent media trying to educate them) and it gives them the motivation to do something with it. Or nothing, if they still decide the best option is drawing a 2 foot penis on the ballot paper. It's an educated choice.

Everyone is told this is what you do to make a country work. If you choose not to bother, you have no excuse to bitch about the result (plus you probably also have a fine to pay as well).

Florida and Texas is proving that uneducated voters are dangerous. In both states, Democrats have realised they need an "R" next to their name to get elected. As such, many recent Democrats are being voted in and then fighting for liberal policies. Not sure about Texas but Florida now has a much larger population that is registered Republican. Many, if not most, are voting Republican down the list and not paying attention to the record of the person they are voting for. The result is having a major majority and still not being able to get anything done.

So the fix is to have an educated population which will vote majority D most of the time? The more educated a population becomes as a whole, the more they vote Democrat

To whom are you referring? 

The only recent examples I could find of folks switching in those states, were incumbent Democrats who lost their primary because they upset their base by being too conservative that switched to Republican and won by advertising themselves as a moderate centrist.  An educated voter would expect such a person to cross party lines frequently. 

If for example Liz Cheney regains her seat in 2026 as a Democrat I don't think anyone would be shocked if she voted with the Republicans more often than the Democrats.

I would be shocked.  By and large, people vote with their political party and they aren't passionate about most things.  Cheney would have to vote party-line for the Democrats if she were a democrat unless it was some pet issue for her OR the Dems didn't need the votes so they'd let her off the hook so she could call herself a moderate.

It's the Susan Collins game.  But you see this all the time.  These people who switch parties do so and pretty much fall in line with their caucus with social issue stuff and for the majority of policy.  Cheney might be like Joe Manchin.

Liz Cheney can't win a Democratic primary, so it's a pointless question.

In most states she couldn't.  In Wyoming she might go unopposed in a Democrat primary as she would have a much greater chance at winning the general than a traditional democrat.

State legislature ... not DC.  Most recently the top Democrat said the party is dead in Florida and was leaving the Dems.

State Senate Minority Leader Jason Pizzo said Thursday he is leaving the Democratic Party and that Senate Democrats will be asked to elect a new leader, yet another low moment for Florida’s downtrodden minority party.

“Here’s the issue: The Democratic Party in Florida is dead. But there are good people that can resuscitate it. But they don’t want it to be me,” he said.


Most recent converts from Dems to Republicans are Rep Hillary Cassel and Rep Susan Valdes who switched during the last election. We already have a bunch in the house who switched previously as well as other Republicans who have sold out to John Morgan and are basically moderate Democrats. None of them are conservatives in nature.

The odd thing is their war against DeSantis is more important to them than the citizens. DeSantis has called them every name in the book to try and get them to address lowering property taxes, insurance rates , and a host of conservative things like open carry. Instead they do nothing.

Your claim is that democrats are running as republicans to fool voters and then support democratic policies.  I asked for who...you gave the following examples...

 Jason Pizzo - ran as a democrat, elected as a democrat, said he is leaving the democrat party to be an independent.  No mention if he intents to run again. His supporting democratic positions is NOT AN EXAMPLE OF UNEDUCATED ELECTING A DEMOCRAT IN REPUBLICAN CLOTHING

Hillary Cassel - elected as a democrat Said she is leaving the democratic party over the war in Gaza.  No indications if she is intending to run again. Her supporting democratic positions is NOT AN EXAMPLE OF UNEDUCATED ELECTING A DEMOCRAT IN REPUBLICAN CLOTHING

Susan Valdes-elected as a democrat switched to being a republican.  WILL NOT BE SEEKING REELECTION. Her supporting democratic positions is NOT AN EXAMPLE OF UNEDUCATED ELECTING A DEMOCRAT IN REPUBLICAN CLOTHING

 John Morgan - Not an elected official.  Has supported democrats in the past is considering running as an independent.  His supporting democratic positions is  NOT AN EXAMPLE OF UNEDUCATED ELECTING A DEMOCRAT IN REPUBLICAN CLOTHING

So not a single example of people deciding they need an R next to their name to win. 

Liz Cheney would most definitely not "run unopposed" in any Democratic primary.  The fact that she is running would necessarily generate a challenger.

The idea that Democrats would be happy to let some of the worst Republicans run unopposed in a Democratic primary just because they currently oppose Trump is absurd.  Liz Cheney is absolutely terrible on every policy position except whether Trump should be allowed to send a violent mob to the Capitol in the hopes of overturning his election loss.  Why would Democrats allow her to run unopposed in a primary just so she can vote to outlaw same-sex marriage, to criminalize abortion, to cut taxes for the rich, etc... especially when there's no evidence she can beat a Republican in a statewide race?

AOC would not run unopposed in a Bronx GOP primary just because she came out in opposition of Joe Biden.

Democrats have trouble convincing people to run for statewide office in Wyoming.  Liz Cheney could make the race competitive.  If she won she would vote with Republicans on many policy issues but she would vote for the Democrats speaker, almost all procedural matters , such as should the sec of def be investigated for live chatting battle plans on an unsecure communication, on Ukraine, on tariffs, on the worst of Trump insanity and Fascist tendencies. 

AOC is not a fair comparison.  Republicans don't consider her a hero or person of integrity and courage.

I don't like Liz Cheney but she is a normal Republican.  I disagree with Republicans but I assume you can recognize that there is a bigger difference between Trump and Bush than between Bush and Obama.

Maga needs to be stopped

That makes AOC the perfect comparison.

Maybe you think Liz Cheney is a hero for doing the bare minimum expected from any elected official: defend the Constitution.  Most Democrats (that know enough about politics to know who she is) still hate her guts.

And just as importantly: Liz Cheney hasn't really learned anything!  She hasn't repudiated her own actions that led to Trump in the first place.  If Trump had a heart attack and died tomorrow, Cheney would happily support JD Vance, Ron DeSantis, or any other Trump wannabe who would put us right back on the same path.

It's only for the 2nd point.

If the Dems think that there's zero change they win the state with a progressive, Cheney would give them 3/4ths of a Democrat.  It would be just like Joe Manchin.  As much as Manchin sucked, he gave us some key votes when we needed them and when he's gone, he'll be replaced by a MAGA and we'll never see that vote again.

^^^ Manchin is gone and his replacement is a crook. You can't trust a coal man. DOGE just shut down the only black lung research facility and my people voted for this.

This is wrong, and a bad characterization of Manchin.

Manchin was a standard Bill Clinton-era Democrat, and voted as such.  Cheney is a dyed-in-the-wool George W. Bush Republican who agrees with Democrats on nothing except "Trump is a criminal who must be stopped."

The idea that Democrats would nominate a Mitt Romney or Chris Christie or Jeb Bush on the sole justification that they oppose Trump is absurd.  You underestimate the (fully justified) ire Democratic primary voters have for these politicians.  They created Trump.

AND THAT FASCISM IS BAD


I would take Mitt Romney over Mike Lee in Utah.  And Jeb Bush over Rick Scott in Florida.  NJ we don't need Christie. 

They don't actually believe this.  They simply oppose Trump.

Everyone I just listed would happily support Ron DeSantis or JD Vance.  They want Trumpism without Trump; the slick, respectable "We will ban books and punish corporations that fail to toe the government's line" fascism of DeSantis, not the hamfisted January 6 fascism of Trump.

And again, importantly: there is little reason to believe that nominating these defrocked Republicans would result in a victory!  Why sell out your principles to boost an "ally" that will oppose you on every policy, all in the service of "defeating Trump" (whatever that means now), if they won't even win the seat?  It is not worth demoralizing your base so you can lose by 10 points instead of 30.